Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Old 11-22-2012, 02:28 PM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
Yes that would be great but i think it is different water and oil gallows are different and maybe bolt pattern might be different ... wish i had the resources to find out!
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-22-2012, 02:42 PM
e39540iv8 e39540iv8 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 141
Mein Auto: 2000 BMW 540iA
Honestly man just supercharge it. I've researched this, watched supercharged 540i videos and looked up power figures and it makes alot of sense. HP is HP whether supercharged or not and actually the centrifugal units make power sort of like an NA because they're peaky. NA isn't exactly linear, the only true linear band is a twin screw. If your engine is healthy then go for it. You'll be making more than your target for alot less.

I was gonna do it but some things scare me like, will the engine disintegrate and the automatic gearbox, how much power and torque can it hold. The thing is I don't know how strong these components are or how strong the ones in MY car are. It just sucks because I know if I install the SC that thought will always be on the back of my mind.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-22-2012, 02:53 PM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
For the centrifugal ...its Alot more like a Turbo... not as much lag but still Alot more then IM hoping for.

And IM pretty sure Jimmy540i is running an automatic with 48x rwhp and for a good while.
I'd say if it were to get rebuilt it would hold that power for a while,look at the list of cars these transmissions are used for... pretty strong
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-22-2012, 03:32 PM
WDRAcing WDRAcing is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dover DE
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 151
Mein Auto: 99 540iA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedevil1 View Post
For the centrifugal ...its Alot more like a Turbo... not as much lag but still Alot more then IM hoping for.

And IM pretty sure Jimmy540i is running an automatic with 48x rwhp and for a good while.
I'd say if it were to get rebuilt it would hold that power for a while,look at the list of cars these transmissions are used for... pretty strong
Centrifugal superchargers are the epitome of lag. They don't reach max boost until you're at redline. A properly sized turbo will make full boost by 2200 rpm. If you want to make power, adding forced induction is the way to go. Stroking the 4.4 is a waste of money, imho. Only because you're talking about putting in as much money as the car is worth, for minimal gains.

You could make your target hp with 5 psi of boost for about $2700 if you go with a remote mount setup.

Also, don't forget to upgrade your peg leg diff.

Just my .02

WD

Last edited by WDRAcing; 11-22-2012 at 03:33 PM. Reason: Grammar - Clarity
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-22-2012, 03:46 PM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
Ok yeah that's a small Turbo, i guess i was talking about a Turbo that is sized t
As bog as a centrifugal ..

But yes evena 18g or 20g turbo could probably get me therebut i really didn't want boost unless its on top of the engine. Yes turbos are pretty simple power, but half of the fun is the struggle getting there.
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-22-2012, 04:18 PM
WDRAcing WDRAcing is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dover DE
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 151
Mein Auto: 99 540iA
I'm a boost addict myself. I always try to talk people into going that route. I'll be boosting my 540, maybe this winter. I had to replace the usual suspects before I spend any money on go-fast items. I still have to replace the VC gaskets and I'm ditching the entire cooling system in favor of a dual core aluminum unit with electric fans. So I have a little work left before I add any boost.

Regardless of what path you choose, best of luck.

I'll be using a GT35 btw.


Last edited by WDRAcing; 11-22-2012 at 04:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-22-2012, 04:59 PM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
Nice, i have to replace vc gaskets too but i will when the M60 heads go on if i haven't changed my mind by then.

I love boost too but i picture this car as a n/a kind of car..i love boost too and i miss my supra and talon Tai... idk

Where were you going to place the Turbo? And would your crossover go up top or bottom?

When i was going to boost my cobra i loved the placement of the turbos but thar would be a pain in the ass to do the same on a 540..so many ways to go

Behind bumper or on top by the throttle body
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up

Last edited by Bluedevil1; 11-22-2012 at 05:39 PM. Reason: picture
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-22-2012, 05:47 PM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
Quick poll: most accurate synopsis

I would like to get a baseline rating and seeing which dyno is used most
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-22-2012, 06:05 PM
WDRAcing WDRAcing is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dover DE
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 151
Mein Auto: 99 540iA
I'll be doing a remote mount. Not enough room under the hood in my opinion. Doing a remote mount saves me from having to fabricate my own manifolds as well. The 540 is just too cramped. Remote mounts are just too easy and the lag is negligible.

I'd go with a Mustang dyno if you have one in your local. However, I've found that it's more to do with the operator and setup then the type of dyno. Something as simple as the humidity setting will yield erroneous numbers. Just make sure you use the same dyno before and after, that's really the only way to stay accurate.

Last edited by WDRAcing; 11-22-2012 at 06:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-22-2012, 06:46 PM
e39540iv8 e39540iv8 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 141
Mein Auto: 2000 BMW 540iA
I completely agree with you and understand what you mean by an "NA kind of car" but the BMW engine is just too expensive to get anything out of.

As for turbocharging I don't know. The plumbing shouldn't be too hard but again you're gonna be running a proprietary setup. It's a custom job and there's no "blueprints" for it like with an SC.

If there was a kind of electronic blueprint for an LS swap made by someone who has done an LS swap it would be so sweet. The only problem with an LS swap is the electronics. I thought about it but I just don't know where to start or what the issues I will be facing are. Otherwise it's the cheapest and highest potential option.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-22-2012, 06:49 PM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
By remote you mean at the end of the manifolds?


And what about tuning?
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-22-2012, 07:47 PM
Schitzo Schitzo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Minneapolis MN
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 251
Mein Auto: 2000 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedevil1 View Post

LS swap is looking more and more intriguing everytime i research it,
a terminator engine is a great idea as far as power it can take in stock form is insane and twin screw is a plus!
LS is not for everyone but if you do go that route, there is plenty of power to be had. This has been my daily the past 2 years.
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p.../EngineBay.jpg
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/p...ideProfile.jpg

One more thing to keep in mind, when it comes to BMW V8s, there is no such thing as 'budget stroker'. You will pay to play.
__________________
l Stock 2000 528i l
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-22-2012, 07:53 PM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
Nice pictures, How much time and money did you put into your LS swap?

I expect to pay to play I'm just not trying to spend 20k for 450 hp
I've heard that you can get by with 4-5000 for LS swap

WOW I just saw that your in Minneapolis...Richfield here
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up

Last edited by Bluedevil1; 11-22-2012 at 07:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-22-2012, 08:15 PM
Schitzo Schitzo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Minneapolis MN
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 251
Mein Auto: 2000 528i
The swap was ~$7900 including cost of the drivetrain and took a few months of actual fabrication to get it done. I did sell some E39 parts to offset the cost and did all the work myself. There are cheaper LS engines which if used can drop the cost quite a bit. If you would like to check it out, send me a message in the spring or once the snow is gone. I'm currently building a stroker for it.

Have you completely ruled out forced induction? I think a supercharged 540i is a pretty stout setup and can be had for a reasonable price.
__________________
l Stock 2000 528i l

Last edited by Schitzo; 11-22-2012 at 08:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-22-2012, 08:31 PM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
Yes I would like to check it out sometime!

I didnt rule it out I just thought it would be a fun project .
I need to do something bc Its not enough power anymore so I thought I'd think of a project, now Before I bought My third 540 I was going to get a 300c and stroke it to a 426 and have fell in love with twin screw superchargers for the newer V8's and I know they are VERY capable of huge power!

These little 4.4L engines are pretty stout for what they are but I've always wanted a 400+ Naturally aspirated car because of the responsiveness.

How did you get the Electronics figured out? schematics or did you have someone wire it up?
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 11-22-2012, 08:46 PM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
Ahhh I hate to ask this but Does anyone need an engine and auto transmission? I just might have changed my mind.... I swear the cheapest and most effective might just be the LS since I wont be limited on down the road power needs if there is any.
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:06 PM
Schitzo Schitzo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Minneapolis MN
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 251
Mein Auto: 2000 528i
wiring is pretty straight forward (I'd be happy to provide specific info if you do go the LS route). Check out the link below, there are a few E39 LS swap going on at the moment.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...play.php?f=208
__________________
l Stock 2000 528i l
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 11-22-2012, 09:18 PM
WDRAcing WDRAcing is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Dover DE
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 151
Mein Auto: 99 540iA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedevil1 View Post
By remote you mean at the end of the manifolds?


And what about tuning?
Remote means at the back where the muffler would be. Muffler by Garrett

If you have no registration / inspection type issues with swapping motors then the LSx is the way to go. I've helped do a few swaps into the 240SX and one into a 300ZX. The hardest part was fabricating headers, I'm not sure that would even be a problem with the 540.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 11-23-2012, 03:44 AM
DennisCooper!'s Avatar
DennisCooper! DennisCooper! is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: West London / Heathrow UK
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,648
Mein Auto: 03 Ex Cop 530d Touring
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedevil1 View Post
Ahhh I hate to ask this but Does anyone need an engine and auto transmission? I just might have changed my mind.... I swear the cheapest and most effective might just be the LS since I wont be limited on down the road power needs if there is any.


So how much was the preliminary amount for your normally aspirated 500'ish BHP conversion of the 4.4 litre BMW engine?

The LSx conversions is something I've considered as well over here in the UK once my Diesel engine gives up. It's showing no signs of that at 260,000 miles though, so might have to continue waiting!

Cheers, Dennis!
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 11-23-2012, 05:31 AM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
I guess hearing an 03 Z06 go by did it for me...

I'm probably going to still get a baseline so I know where I am now vs where I will be come spring. I have a warm shop to do the project in this winter!! I'm going to be spending alot of time at work after I get the engine and T56
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 11-23-2012, 06:05 AM
e39540iv8 e39540iv8 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 141
Mein Auto: 2000 BMW 540iA
I'm interested in the LS swap too. I just need to ask, what do you mean by electronics and wiring being "pretty straight forward". I thought this was the hardest part and traction control is ruled out in this swap and some other things like cluster. Can you provide a little more detail about what will work and what won't and how the whole thing will be wired up. This would be a sweet swap. LS engines are WAY more reliable than BMW engines and repairs are way cheaper.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 11-23-2012, 07:28 AM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
Ok now that IM thinking of the LS swap, guys are putting in 8.8 Ford rear ends what about a vette transmission? Its in place of the rear That would be interesting end.. that would be interesting
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up

Last edited by Bluedevil1; 11-23-2012 at 07:32 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 11-23-2012, 07:30 AM
Bluedevil1 Bluedevil1 is offline
Registered User
Location: Mn
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 37
Mein Auto: 97 540iA
That would even out the weight too
__________________
If you smell me....You cant keep up
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 11-23-2012, 01:38 PM
Schitzo Schitzo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Minneapolis MN
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 251
Mein Auto: 2000 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by e39540iv8 View Post
I'm interested in the LS swap too. I just need to ask, what do you mean by electronics and wiring being "pretty straight forward". I thought this was the hardest part and traction control is ruled out in this swap and some other things like cluster. Can you provide a little more detail about what will work and what won't and how the whole thing will be wired up. This would be a sweet swap. LS engines are WAY more reliable than BMW engines and repairs are way cheaper.
The LS engine ECU is pretty much a stand alone unit which means it does not require any inputs from the BMW side for it to run the engine. All the ECU needs is 12V, Ground and data from the appropriate engine sensors and it will work. On the contrary, BMW engine ECUs for example require input from the EWS, DSC unit etc so swapping them is not easy.

The only thing you have to do on the BMW side is code the instrument cluster to accept the LS1 tachometer and coolant temp signals. The link below details how that is done.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1899207

You are correct that you will lose traction control however, ABS works just fine. losing traction control was not a deal breaker for me.

I should also mention there are kits available to swap the LS into the E39 so at this point it's a bolt on affair.
__________________
l Stock 2000 528i l
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 11-23-2012, 01:50 PM
Schitzo Schitzo is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Minneapolis MN
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 251
Mein Auto: 2000 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluedevil1 View Post
Ok now that IM thinking of the LS swap, guys are putting in 8.8 Ford rear ends what about a vette transmission? Its in place of the rear That would be interesting end.. that would be interesting
Corvette transmission will not fit in out cars and is not worth trying to fit when you can go with the regular T56 or TR6060.
__________________
l Stock 2000 528i l
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
build, cams, n/a, naturally aspirated, stroker


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms