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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #126  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:07 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Track comparisons are good up to a point but IMO the way the behave drive on public roads is far more relevant to the way these cars will be driven in the real world.
I wonder, is there a magazine or website that focuses on "non-performance enthusiasm"? Tests the cars the way the typical driver would use it? Cares more about trunk capacity than torque? More about a quiet cabin than an engine note?

BJ
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  #127  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
OK.

So let me get this straight.

Non F30 owners come in here and wax on about the E46 ZHP(have not driven it, cannot confirm Kool-aid worthy ness) and **** all over the driving dynamics of the F30(some of them without driving one).

Now I see reply after reply going on about the greatness of the E93 335is.

I am going to **** on your car now, cuz this must be fun for me too!

So now I am going to go into every E93 thread I can find on every forum and **** on their cars compared to my OLD out of date car. This also applies to the newer Z4, I am going to go rag on their **** too.

I am going to feel so much better about myself now!

I am sure it will be much appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Whatever floats your boat, but, I thought the M Roadster was a "girls" car as they were the only ones who could fit comfortably? M Roadsters for the girls and Corvettes for the men!

We were also not comparing the 335is to an F30. BJ commented that his E93 328i was a pedestrian car and the same as the E93 335is.
The point is that you can create a "Why I Hate The F30" thread in the E46 and E90 forums where they belong.

Coming in here in our forum and sh-tting on our cars isn't a nice thing to do. Not our fault your cars are being purchased more and more by 17 year olds and your forums have fallen to pieces.

You want to participate here with the adults, fine, act like one. We are tired of you trashing our decisions every week. Enough.

BJ
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  #128  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by UnderSteer View Post
I have never put down the F30 as I have never driven one. Even if I did my opinion would certainy carry no weight since the fact that I have an E93 (M3) that does not have an MT outs me as a non-enthusiast.

I am sure the F30 is a very good car but the fact of the matter is that a large number of professional car reviesers have commented that the F30 has lost a some of what they considered to be traditional BMW feel. Perhaps they are full of crap but I think this is a subject that warrants discussion as a significant number of people who drive E9x will be on the market for a new car in the near future and will certainly be looking at the F30 and its competitors.
We are well aware of the misperception of the F30 by professional reviewers and the BMW enthusiast community. We don't need weekly reminders by E46 and E90 owners.

Is this a subject that warrants discussion? Sure. Have at it in the E90 and E46 subforums where this type of negative, downtrodden, disappointed, anti-BMW rhetoric belongs. Most of us have had our F30's for less than 6 months. We don't come here every day to hear others trash our cars. You don't see that behavior in your forums, you wouldn't like it either. We come here to celebrate our rides, share our experiences, learn a little about new features. We don't come here to endlessly defend our decisions.

BJ
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  #129  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Exactly.

It's a ludicrous "comparo", created just to cause controversy and sell some magazines, drive some hits to a website. 60% of the review is about the infotainment system, the other 40% some quick summary that contradicts the comparo on the same cars a few months ago.
I think the other 40% is clearly about only (his) driving enjoyment, not performance. He does say that it is extremely well performing, in a"yadi yadi yada..." kind of way. His comments are solely about whether you (he) are having fun driving the car.

If the car had dynamic handling, I wonder whether that contributed to the rubbery feel he complained about. Adaptive suspensions can respond in a non-linear progressive way, reducing that feeling of immediate and direct connection to the suspension. With very stiff suspensions, you feel like the car responds to your inputs almost immediately. I wonder the adaptive suspension smooths transitions (stiffness ramps up), giving a feeling of rubbery disconnectedness, even though ultimate performance is higher.

Of course, this is all speculation, and completely useless speculation if the car tested didn't have the adaptive suspension.

Btwy, I am not going to re-watch the review, but I think his body and head were being jiggled around far more in the ATS than in the other cars, a sure sign of a much stiffer setup (I think he even conceded that sport mode may be too stiff any kind of normal driving).
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  #130  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I am 6'4" and can't fit, although I imagine is it a fun car. I did try to drive a Z3 when they came out and my knees were hitting the dash.

The 335is convertible is also a fun car which I enjoy, but I did get the car so my wife could also drive and enjoy it.

I had added this piece to my previous post: We were also not comparing the 335is to an F30. BJ commented that his E93 328i was a pedestrian car and the same as the E93 335is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
That's all well and good.

It's fine if the F30 has lost a bit of that feedback.

But that can be said for EVERY generation since the E30.

I can find flaws in every car I have ever driven. It's ok.

But at least I have driven it, and or a lot of cars that it competes with before spouting my judgement.

Reading a magazine and then making statements of your own as fact is very annoying around here.

I am not saying you are doing it, but keep in mind between 2-3 forums there are 30 threads like these.
Beden:

JV has asked you in three different posts why you feel the need to come into the F30 forum and sh-t on our cars having never driven one and having no intention of buying one.

Answer the question.

He has also asked that you reconsider this behavior and stop.

Please do that.

BJ
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  #131  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I wonder, is there a magazine or website that focuses on "non-performance enthusiasm"? Tests the cars the way the typical driver would use it? Cares more about trunk capacity than torque? More about a quiet cabin than an engine note?

BJ
It is called Consumer Reports. They test everything from cup holders to how the car holds up on the track, i.e. they test it from all perspectives. You read the review and decide for yourself what aspects of the car are more important to you. Sure, they give a score, but you can disregard it since it is for some arbitrary weighting of attributes that they think is appropriate for the typical consumer. You can make up your own mind based on the info they provide you.
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  #132  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
We are in Florida until Christmas. Ms. Audio's Jaguar came off lease and we returned it 2 weeks ago. I will miss that car but probably will not replace it as we don't really need to keep a car in Florida car anymore.

We are in Melbourne today in a Hertz Mercedes C Class. I am parked next to an F30 Luxury Line (I think it's a Luxury). The BMW and the MB are the two nicest cars parked on the main street and are surrounded by Toyotas, Hondas, Hyundais, Fords, etc. I have been sitting on a bench across the street from where we are parked and with the exception of me nobody has paid any attention to the F30 or the Mercedes.

Hertz had a Mercedes C63 AMG rental when I picked the C250 at Palm Beach International Airport. It would have been about $9,000 to rent it for a month so I passed.

FWIW I like the C 250 but it does not drive as well as my 335i and I assume it does not drive as well as an F30 based on the fact that the vast majority of posters here who have driven both prefer the F30. But overall it is a very nice car that I am sure most of those who own one are happy with.


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  #133  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi View Post
It is called Consumer Reports.
That's it, unfortunately BJ will not have fun in a CR forum either, he will be battling Camry and Accord drivers, asking them to go back to Toyota or Honda forums where they belong.
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  #134  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:55 PM
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lol, Consumer Reports. Written by the Elderly, for the Elderly. Their recommendations match their business model- stuck in 1993.

The same joke Annual Car review editions which recommend Toyota for purchase which they haven't tested not have even been delivered to the US yet. And the massive Toyota recalls, what are those? Who was the last to figure out the disastrous Civic changes, Yep CR. After all if it was good in the 90's it still must be good. Thankfully most knowledge buyers under 60 ignore CR altogether now.
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  #135  
Old 11-25-2012, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MMME30W View Post
Nope. Watch it again. No joke made. Just another clueless reviewer with a video camera.

Still, lot of click throughs for MT based on this article.

Must be a novelty for them.
No, you are missing it. It's clearly a joke about Benz and BMW copying each other.... i.e. BMW design is determined by whatever the folks in Stutgart at Benz HQ are thinking about, and vice versa.
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  #136  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Beden:

JV has asked you in three different posts why you feel the need to come into the F30 forum and sh-t on our cars having never driven one and having no intention of buying one.

Answer the question.

He has also asked that you reconsider this behavior and stop.

Please do that.

BJ
BJ-

I have given my opinion as well. Think the F30 is a lovely car in all regards vs E90, and I will likely get one within the next 6 months when my E92 lease ends, but I will admit that in doing so I am going to overlook a serious flaw in the F30 which is the horrible steering. Don't get me wrong, I like everything else about it, but the steering feel sucks. I've had every generation of 3-series since the E30 and I do acknowledge that they've all given up a bit of feel from generation to generation, but E90 -> F30 was the biggest deterioration because the new electric power steering flat out sucks. Not enough to keep me from buying one, but its very disappointing.

And I have driven one at length, this is not just me taking the reviews as gospel.
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  #137  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Highmodulus View Post
lol, Consumer Reports. Written by the Elderly, for the Elderly. Their recommendations match their business model- stuck in 1993.

The same joke Annual Car review editions which recommend Toyota for purchase which they haven't tested not have even been delivered to the US yet. And the massive Toyota recalls, what are those? Who was the last to figure out the disastrous Civic changes, Yep CR. After all if it was good in the 90's it still must be good. Thankfully most knowledge buyers under 60 ignore CR altogether now.
CR has a big say among those who veiw cars as appliances and which ones give them most value. The majority of the drivers out there view a car as another appliance. This is in part why Toyota is one of the best sellers, and continues to increase sales ahead of other brands. It was not just good in the 90's, it is good today, and into the future.

Fortunately for BMW and many other brands, there are a lot of people who view their cars more than just appliances.
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  #138  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
You should have rented a Corvette. I used to take my ZO6 to Stuart and up through Melbourne and would get people waving and giving me the thumbs up everywhere I went. Those areas are largely populated by fans of US performance cars.
It was tempting to rent a Corvette but I needed space for enough luggage for 2 months and since I will be visiting family I needed a back seat.
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  #139  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:11 PM
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I don't hear f30 owners complaining about steering.
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  #140  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Beden:

JV has asked you in three different posts why you feel the need to come into the F30 forum and sh-t on our cars having never driven one and having no intention of buying one.

Answer the question.

He has also asked that you reconsider this behavior and stop.

Please do that.

BJ
BJ if I left, unsuspecting visitors may actually start buying what you say is true, when in fact, you're really a BMW marketing shill.
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  #141  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SARAFIL View Post
BJ-

I have given my opinion as well. Think the F30 is a lovely car in all regards vs E90, and I will likely get one within the next 6 months when my E92 lease ends, but I will admit that in doing so I am going to overlook a serious flaw in the F30 which is the horrible steering. Don't get me wrong, I like everything else about it, but the steering feel sucks. I've had every generation of 3-series since the E30 and I do acknowledge that they've all given up a bit of feel from generation to generation, but E90 -> F30 was the biggest deterioration because the new electric power steering flat out sucks. Not enough to keep me from buying one, but its very disappointing.

And I have driven one at length, this is not just me taking the reviews as gospel.
This from a guy who sells BMW.

On the bright side, there will be plenty of people who will like the lighter steering because that is what they are used to in other cars they drive.
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  #142  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SARAFIL View Post
No, you are missing it. It's clearly a joke about Benz and BMW copying each other.... i.e. BMW design is determined by whatever the folks in Stutgart at Benz HQ are thinking about, and vice versa.
You are correct. I missed it, too. Admittedly I can't stand this guy and after I heard those words I was so incredulous I missed the next few words he said. It wasn't until someone pointed it out and I went back and watched a fourth time that I caught it. I watched two additional times the first time I watched the video, because I couldn't believe the "mistake", but I was so focused on confirming I had heard the reversal correctly I didn't hear the next few words. I've seen other reviews of his and I do think he is an idiot.
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  #143  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
You are correct. I missed it, too. Admittedly I can't stand this guy and after I heard those words I was so incredulous I missed the next few words he said. It wasn't until someone pointed it out and I went back and watched a fourth time that I caught it. I watched two additional times the first time I watched the video, because I couldn't believe the "mistake", but I was so focused on confirming I had heard the reversal correctly I didn't hear the next few words. I've seen other reviews of his and I do think he is an idiot.
Well I agree with you there, I don't care for this guy myself. Oh we'll, we can't like them all.
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  #144  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:14 PM
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I don't hear f30 owners complaining about steering.
You won't hear ATS owners complain that ATS is ugly.
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  #145  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
This from a guy who sells BMW.

On the bright side, there will be plenty of people who will like the lighter steering because that is what they are used to in other cars they drive.
I've been (happily) out of the car biz for 3.5 years now, thank you very much.

But I do still pay close attention to what's going on with BMW via these boards and I am a loyal BMW owner.
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  #146  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I wonder, is there a magazine or website that focuses on "non-performance enthusiasm"? Tests the cars the way the typical driver would use it? Cares more about trunk capacity than torque? More about a quiet cabin than an engine note?

BJ
Such websites do exist. They're called Toyota Forums.


CA
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  #147  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:20 PM
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Such websites do exist. They're called Toyota Forums.


CA
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  #148  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:21 PM
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I've been (happily) out of the car biz for 3.5 years now, thank you very much.
Car business these days is such a bitch, I am not surprised you are happy.
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  #149  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by justinnum1 View Post
I don't hear f30 owners complaining about steering.
If you haven't spent time with an older model with hydraulic steering, you might not notice the difference.

And let me clarify-- there are two distinct things here. Steering feel vs steering "weight" or amount of power assist.

BMW could have increased the power assist to make it lighter to appease Cadillac/Lexus type buyers while maintaining feel (those that have been here for a while will recall that BMW tried this when they launched the 2001 330i with significantly more boost than the 2000 328i, although at that point enthusiasts freaked, and BMW started offering a steering rack retrofit to install the rack with less boost).

The F30 system with the sport trim allows you to change the amount of assist, but even in sport mode it just becomes heavy with no feel vs light with no feel. It's hard to keep steering feel when you go from hydraulic to electric, I honestly don't know if anyone else has figured out how to do it.
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  #150  
Old 11-25-2012, 01:48 PM
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MMME30W MMME30W is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
Such websites do exist. They're called Toyota Forums.


CA


Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL View Post
If you haven't spent time with an older model with hydraulic steering, you might not notice the difference.

And let me clarify-- there are two distinct things here. Steering feel vs steering "weight" or amount of power assist.

BMW could have increased the power assist to make it lighter to appease Cadillac/Lexus type buyers while maintaining feel (those that have been here for a while will recall that BMW tried this when they launched the 2001 330i with significantly more boost than the 2000 328i, although at that point enthusiasts freaked, and BMW started offering a steering rack retrofit to install the rack with less boost).

The F30 system with the sport trim allows you to change the amount of assist, but even in sport mode it just becomes heavy with no feel vs light with no feel. It's hard to keep steering feel when you go from hydraulic to electric, I honestly don't know if anyone else has figured out how to do it.
Apparently not yet. Good article in this months C&D about how challenging electric steering is, but it offers such advantages is here to stay.

Guess I'm going to keep driving my knuckle dragging hydraulic-assist R&P for a while longer.
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