Motor Trend comparo: 1st Cadillac ATS, 2nd C350, 3rd 335i

Originally Posted by justinnum1

I don't hear f30 owners complaining about steering.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=646635

Well, steering wheel at least.

Originally Posted by Highmodulus

lol, Consumer Reports. Written by the Elderly, for the Elderly. Their recommendations match their business model- stuck in 1993.

The same joke Annual Car review editions which recommend Toyota for purchase which they haven't tested not have even been delivered to the US yet. And the massive Toyota recalls, what are those? Who was the last to figure out the disastrous Civic changes, Yep CR. After all if it was good in the 90's it still must be good. Thankfully most knowledge buyers under 60 ignore CR altogether now.

You are speaking based on partial ignorance. As I said before, their recommendations are one thing and their reviews, which obviously cannot fit in the annual car issue, are another. If you just want to get the info condensed in two sentences for the appliance shopper (their annual car issue), that is your problem.

Some mistakes slip in, but the other rags are far worse.

Btwy, CR has a very specific definition for a recommended car. A car has to have an average or higher reliability rating and meet some minimum performance and design criteria (I don't know exactly what those are). A car can get a glowing review about its driving dynamics but at the same time be left off the recommended list because of below average reliability. That doesn't render their review useless. Few cars get left off the list for general crapiness. One such car was the Civic, immediately after it got reviewed. It was completely trashed. Btwy, they complained about the new 5 early on as having lost its benchmark status while most rags were still recycling reviews from the previous version.

As to elderly reviewers, judge for yourself. Here is a publicly available short video review for the F30 328i.

And here is the one of the E90.

Where are the senior citizens? I think their driving skills are more than sufficient to cover 99% of BMW buyers. I find their video reviews straightforward and to the point. They lay out their observation and you pick and chose what matters to you.

At least they didn't include the S4 this time. Coming in 3rd out of 3 is a lot better than 4th out of 4.

Originally Posted by SARAFIL

I honestly don't know if anyone else has figured out how to do it.

Supposedly Porsche has figured it out.

They should make a no power steering option. You guys are all wusses

Originally Posted by bmw_or_audi

Supposedly Porsche has figured it out.

They should make a no power steering option. You guys are all wusses

I drove a new 911 S, and quite frankly, the steering felt nearly the same as the 911 model it replaced. The steering on the new Boxster S felt real good too.

Originally Posted by beden1

I drove a new 911 S, and quite frankly, the steering felt nearly the same as the 911 model it replaced. The steering on the new Boxster S felt real good too.

Maybe I should skip the F30 and go for a Boxster then. Haha

Originally Posted by SARAFIL

BJ-

I have given my opinion as well. Think the F30 is a lovely car in all regards vs E90, and I will likely get one within the next 6 months when my E92 lease ends, but I will admit that in doing so I am going to overlook a serious flaw in the F30 which is the horrible steering. Don't get me wrong, I like everything else about it, but the steering feel sucks. I've had every generation of 3-series since the E30 and I do acknowledge that they've all given up a bit of feel from generation to generation, but E90 -> F30 was the biggest deterioration because the new electric power steering flat out sucks. Not enough to keep me from buying one, but its very disappointing.

And I have driven one at length, this is not just me taking the reviews as gospel.

That's fair, that's honest, that's good.

You have test driven an F30, you are a likely F30 buyer, have fun in the F30 forum. It's those who have no intentions of owning an F30 who just want to crap on it because the E46 people crapped on their E90's who are causing undue controversy.

BJ

Originally Posted by justinnum1

I don't hear f30 owners complaining about steering.

Because the steering is quite wonderful in the F30.

My E90 turned like a truck, spinning that wheel to get out of a parking space was a chore. If I wanted a workout for my forearms I'd join a gym.

BJ

So a bit of a review, since Beden1 as well as some others may have missed the chain of events:

-Yet another thread(out of like 20) where people come to the F30 forum to critique a car they often have not driven, let alone purchase while exalting the superior attributes of the previous models they CHOOSE to drive.
-JamesonsViggen(dashing young fellow) sees the absurdity in this yet again as he watches people wax on about a variety of previous BMW's, this time an E93...but wait, it's an IS. So let's come to the F30 forum, critique and play up on the E93.
-I then play devil's advocate and find plenty of things to critique about the E93(which I can do for any car, that's kind of my point) and making it seem inferior to my even older E36/7-let alone my highly modified E36/7
-The defense to that is, well it was only brought up becase BoltaJames goaded me into it. I will not defend your critique of my E93 which would bring into light the absurd discourse with the F30, instead focusing on my example car and calling it GIRLY...when in fact the E93 could be called just as much if not more-so.
-All of that is ignored. Instead, mine is bigger than yours is elevated by the 911 being brought up. When stated that my girly car can one up the 911 in half the regards the 911 trumps my car, keen eyed rocket scientists harp on said modified car and note how easy it is to slap on a turbo to a 911...once again...one upping instead of focusing on the initial point of how silly it all is to come into one forum to one up the current car with previous generations.
-Now I am told that MY girly car is one touted for the need to compensate. Not the 911 and former Vette owner, cars that one would stereotype as classic compensation mobiles. But that only comes from stereo-typing which is par for the course. I get to drive the stereotype girly car, while the one making the statement gets to skirt driving a girly E93 AND driving cars stereotyped for being driven by those wanting to compensate(911's and Vettes). Isn't that impressive?
-I thought I would give yet another example, maybe something even he/anyone else could grasp onto. The elitism in the 911 community, where many 993 owners feel it ends there(as well as 997.2 vs 991), after air cooling, inferior-less pure Porsches came after. Not only do we confirm such a stigma and bull**** statement exists, he goes on to say that the new model people know better, they are the party of elevated thinking. All while oblivious to how hypocritical it sounds to say that when it applies apples to apples to the F30 vs older BMW debate.

So I think that sums it up.

Originally Posted by beden1

BJ if I left, unsuspecting visitors may actually start buying what you say is true, when in fact, you're really a BMW marketing shill.

I have no idea what that's supposed to mean.

I merely speak the truth, a truth that's pretty obvious. I realize that E46 people got under your skin years ago. Doesn't mean that E90 people have the right to get under ours.

You are a part-time BMW driver with no intention of buying an F30. So please go back to your E9X forum and bask in the glory of your super-special 335i Cabrio that you drive 200 miles a month. Visiting this forum every week to drop a hate bomb isn't befitting someone of your advanced years.

BJ

Originally Posted by dtc100

This from a guy who sells BMW.

On the bright side, there will be plenty of people who will like the lighter steering because that is what they are used to in other cars they drive.

And here chimes in someone in a bare bones baseline E90 328i with his views on "steering feel" and "performance enthusiasm" as if he has a clue.

The E90 is just the mistake between the E46 and the F30. If you truly believed the crap you dish out, you'd be in an ATS by now.

BJ

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

So I think that sums it up.

What sums it up is that you really need some meds.

Originally Posted by dtc100

You won't hear ATS owners complain that ATS is ugly.

Because 75 year olds have terrible eyesight.

BJ

Originally Posted by beden1

What sums it up is that you really need some meds.

He's an F30 owner in the F30 forum.

You're an E93 owner who's here to get his rocks off by bashing other BMW owners.

Pretty sure we know which of the two of you needs meds.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Because the steering is quite wonderful in the F30.

My E90 turned like a truck, spinning that wheel to get out of a parking space was a chore. If I wanted a workout for my forearms I'd join a gym.

BJ

I never understood why people feel that the E9x has heavy steering.

CA

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I never understood why people feel that the E9x has heavy steering.

CA

At speed, the E9X steering was very good, I enjoyed its accuracy and precision.

But maneuvering around parking lots and driveways, different story, I always felt it required way too much effort for a luxury car.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

At speed, the E9X steering was very good, I enjoyed its accuracy and precision.

But maneuvering around parking lots and driveways, different story, I always felt it required way too much effort for a luxury car.

BJ

That's because it was never intended to be a luxury car. Maybe now you get it?

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

At speed, the E9X steering was very good, I enjoyed its accuracy and precision.

But maneuvering around parking lots and driveways, different story, I always felt it required way too much effort for a luxury car.

BJ

I was referring to maneuvering around parking lots and driveways and I honestly do not find that it requires too much effort. I asked Ms. Audio (who has an issue diminished strength in her right arm due to an injury) what she thought of the steering effort in the E93 and she also does find it to be too heavy. The harsh suspension with the OEM dampers and the RFTs was another story as we both hated it. At this point I am happy with the way the 335i drives. It will be interesting to get back to it next month after 8 weeks in a C250 Mercedes.

CA

Originally Posted by beden1

What sums it up is that you really need some meds.

That must be it!

I don't take any pills of any kind, never will.

But I figure at your advanced age and pension for "compensating for difficientcies" type vehicles I am sure you have some favorites...Extenz, Viagra?

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I was referring to maneuvering around parking lots and driveways. I asked Ms. Audio (who had an issue diminished strength in her right arm due to an injury) what she thought of the steering effort in the E93 and she did not see an issue with it being too heavy.

CA

Perhaps it's because we tend to get comfortable with what we know.

I suspect that if you bought her an F30 for Christmas she'd remark at how light and easy the steering is. It's one of the first things I noticed on my F30 test drive along with the torque, lighter feel, and the sumptuous interior.

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Perhaps it's because we tend to get comfortable with what we know.

I suspect that if you bought her an F30 for Christmas she'd remark at how light and easy the steering is. It's one of the first things I noticed on my F30 test drive along with the torque, lighter feel, and the sumptuous interior.

BJ

We had a Lexus SC300 and are currently driving a Mercedes C250 (Courtesy of Hertz). She had her own Jaguar XKR until a few weeks ago and since we have had the E93 she has driven a wide variety of cars ranging from the Lime Rock Club's M3s and our 750Lix to rental Shelbys and Audis.


CA

Historically, the 3 Series was the sport model and the 5 Series was a sport sedan with some luxury. With BMW, you had to pay up to get more luxury. The 7 and the 6 Series were luxury with superior handling characteristics.

Originally Posted by beden1

Historically, the 3 Series was the sport model and the 5 Series was a sport sedan with some luxury. With BMW, you had to pay up to get more luxury. The 7 and the 6 Series were luxury with superior handling characteristics.

Yeah, and the Huxtables were starting in the #1 show on television and the Cabbage Patch doll was the #1 toy for Christmas.

It's 2013. Get the free calendar from your Porsche dealer.

BJ

Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen

That must be it!

I don't take any pills of any kind, never will.

But I figure at your advanced age and pension for "compensating for difficientcies" type vehicles I am sure you have some favorites...Extenz, Viagra?

You have turned what had started out as a fun exchange into very offensive slurs. You and BJ should be so lucky to reach my age, with the great physical conditioning that I maintain, and with the good fortune to live a comfortable life.

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Yeah, and the Huxtables were starting in the #1 show on television and the Cabbage Patch doll was the #1 toy for Christmas.

It's 2013. Get the free calendar from your Porsche dealer.

BJ

I have sat in an F30 and the luxury portion has not changed. You still have to pay up to get luxury in a BMW.