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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #26  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:30 AM
sean10mm sean10mm is offline
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As a so-called "base" engine the N20 is just absurdly good. The combination of power, torque, smoothness and fuel economy is ridiculous. The sound is so-so, but what base engine in the 328i's class sounds any good? Not the C250 or A4 or ATS.
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:30 AM
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Definitely the engine sound, although the E90 was so quiet I'm not sure why those owners are complaining.

I don't think it's the E90 328i's engine we miss, it's just the fact that BMW won't make any more engines like the S54.

And for those of us who like to keep cars we love, I wonder how reliable the turbos are gonna be 10 years down the line. But I personally worry more about the oodles of electronics more than the engine.
I drove the E90 with the S54 engine quite a lot last month due to having it as a loaner twice and putting over 300 miles on it. I did not notice anything in the engine note that made me say 'wow, that's what I'm missing out on'.

Now as far as long term reliability, I will grant you that the forced induction engine will undoubtedly cost more for those who keep the car long term, like greater than 10 years and 150K miles as it might need turbo replacements, etc.

However, even with that said, if I was picking an E90 vs an F30 for a long term driver I would pick the F30 in a heart beat.

Look at it this way, with the $100 or more that you will save on fuel every year with the F30 (if you do as much driving as I do it's probably more like $200 a year) you will have enough money to do those repairs.
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:33 AM
sean10mm sean10mm is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
I wonder how reliable the turbos are gonna be 10 years down the line.
Since we aren't living in the 1980s anymore, I don't think this is really a thing to worry about.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
I drove the E90 with the S54 engine quite a lot last month
S54 is from the E46 M3. Maybe you mean an E90 328i? Yeah, like I said, it's pretty quiet in the E90. Lot more engine sound in older 3 series.

I'd take an F30 over the E90 328i too, way too many advantages. Personally, I think BMW will improve the sound of the N20 given time, either with a mechanical update or with a Performance Exhaust. It probably wasn't a top priority during development.
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  #30  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sean10mm View Post
As a so-called "base" engine the N20 is just absurdly good. The combination of power, torque, smoothness and fuel economy is ridiculous. The sound is so-so, but what base engine in the 328i's class sounds any good? Not the C250 or A4 or ATS.
Luxury cars go out of their way to keep engine noise out of the cockpit.

This whole engine note myth is ludicrous.

And if the older BMW's were so good, these clowns would be spending more time in their own forums instead of mixing it up with the adults in this forum.

BJ
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  #31  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:37 AM
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Since we aren't living in the 1980s anymore, I don't think this is really a thing to worry about.
You can buy a 2003 5 series with the V8 for dirt money cause no one wants to own it out of warranty. I don't want the 3 series to become like this.
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  #32  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Luxury cars go out of their way to keep engine noise out of the cockpit.

This whole engine note myth is ludicrous.

And if the older BMW's were so good, these clowns would be spending more time in their own forums instead of mixing it up with the adults in this forum.

BJ
Yes, we know you're thrilled that BMW is emulating Lexus, but you don't speak for everyone.

The E46 forum is really boring, it's like hanging out in the garage at a Shell station.
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  #33  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:48 AM
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Personally, I think BMW will improve the sound of the N20 given time, either with a newer engine or with a Performance Exhaust.
Maybe, but it's not like I've ever heard an I4 that sounded any good. Quieting it down was probably the smart thing unless you just accept that you're going to sound like a ricey S2000.

They'd never do it, but a boxer 4 with the right firing order and headers burbles like a baby V8 instead of sounding like a raspy lawnmower and is inherently smoother running than an I4. It's kind of a packaging nightmare though. Then again, so is an I-6, and BMW has no problems with that.
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  #34  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:53 AM
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Were you aware that BMWs are RWD...
Right wheel drive? What about the left wheels?

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  #35  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:53 AM
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Yes, we know you're thrilled that BMW is emulating Lexus, but you don't speak for everyone.

The E46 forum is really boring, it's like hanging out in the garage at a Shell station.
I feel pretty confident that I do speak for everyone when I say that your endless mean-spirited trolling of the F30 forum is beyond tedious.

Why don't you try driving a car that you love instead of harassing the new car owners in here.

BJ
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  #36  
Old 11-28-2012, 11:55 AM
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Right wheel drive? What about the left wheels?

You see, most don't have limited slip differentials.
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  #37  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I feel pretty confident that I do speak for everyone when I say that your endless mean-spirited trolling of the F30 forum is beyond tedious.

Why don't you try driving a car that you love instead of harassing the new car owners in here.

BJ
I think you tend to mix up a lot of people, you're always telling me I drive an E90 for example. When you trash my car I'm gonna give it back.
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  #38  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sean10mm View Post
Maybe, but it's not like I've ever heard an I4 that sounded any good. Quieting it down was probably the smart thing unless you just accept that you're going to sound like a ricey S2000.
FWIW, I wish it sounded like an S2000. I'd just settle for some extra intake noise in the cabin. Those cars that have a tube running from the intake to the firewall intrigue me - good way to get engine sound while still muffling road and other exterior noises. Heck, I'd even settle for the M5's artifical engine noise! One of these days I'm going to disassemble the airbox and see if that's a Helmholtz resonator on the driver side - if so I'd like to hear what effect blocking it off has.

A cross-plane I4 would be interesting in a car. The only vehicle I know of that has ever done this is the Yamaha R1. Great sounding bike.
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  #39  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:19 PM
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What does it matter how many cylinders it has? Engine noise? You guys crack me up. The N20 engine is faster, more powerful, more torque and much better fuel economy than the outgoing I6 engine.
I'm not going to get into a flame war in this guy's light-hearted thread. As the OP acknowledged BMW's shift to a four banger in the U.S. market is a game changing shift after more than two decades. Their name is Bavarian Motor Works. I've already explained in other threads my thoughts about BMW's decision. The improved fuel economy is a result of the 8AT transmission. Not the N20.
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  #40  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:24 PM
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I love that you love it. Nuff said.
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This was so funny! Congrats in your car man! Enjoy it! It truly is just a great BMW.
Hear, hear!!
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  #41  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
I'm not going to get into a flame war in this guy's light-hearted thread. As the OP acknowledged BMW's shift to a four banger in the U.S. market is a game changing shift after more than two decades. Their name is Bavarian Motor Works. I've already explained in other threads my thoughts about BMW's decision. The improved fuel economy is a result of the 8AT transmission. Not the N20.
There is no way in hell that is true. I can compare two older Audi's, one with the V6 and one with the 1.8T 4-cylinder. Same automatic transmission, and the I4 gets notably better gas mileage.

It is incredibly ignorant to claim that the transmission change is the sole reason for the new car's better fuel economy.
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  #42  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:32 PM
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There is no way in hell that is true. I can compare two older Audi's, one with the V6 and one with the 1.8T 4-cylinder. Same automatic transmission, and the I4 gets notably better gas mileage.

It is incredibly ignorant to claim that the transmission change is the sole reason for the new car's better fuel economy.
Why don't you spend a little time actually looking at the facts. I have.
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  #43  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:33 PM
sean10mm sean10mm is offline
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Originally Posted by voip-ninja View Post
There is no way in hell that is true. I can compare two older Audi's, one with the V6 and one with the 1.8T 4-cylinder. Same automatic transmission, and the I4 gets notably better gas mileage.

It is incredibly ignorant to claim that the transmission change is the sole reason for the new car's better fuel economy.
His claim doesn't stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. If BMW could have hit fuel economy and emissions targets by using an old I6 engine with the ZF 8AT and saved millions in tooling and development costs, they would have done it.

It's not like BMW went to a turbo I-4 just to be dicks.
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  #44  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:34 PM
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I would like to see some facts that say the N20 with the ZF8 gets the same mileage as the N52 with the ZF8

and please dont use other cars as an example.
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  #45  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:36 PM
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Why don't you spend a little time actually looking at the facts. I have.
The facts you are referencing is in comparing the 528i. The only way we'll ever know if you are right is if someone puts the I6 normally aspirated engine from the E90 into the F30 and proves it. The new engine is less displacement with a newer direct injection system, and weighs about 100 lbs less.

It HAS to be more fuel efficient otherwise there would be little reason for BMW to spend the millions tooling and designing it.

Here's what I "know". I get an average of 30-32 mpg in my mixed commute with my F30 and that includes the occasional bit of naughtiness.

Doing the same drive with the E90 loaners I had, even if I drove like I had an egg between my foot and the gas pedal the best I could average was about 25 mpg.

Also, if you are correct that the transmission is the sole reason that the N20 equipped car is getting better gas mileage, it would make sense that someone driving an E90 with a 6MT could return as good or better mileage... but I bet they can't.

Anyways, I don't want to argue this, I just think you are completely mistaken on this point.
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  #46  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:42 PM
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His claim doesn't stand up to the slightest bit of scrutiny. If BMW could have hit fuel economy and emissions targets by using an old I6 engine with the ZF 8AT and saved millions in tooling and development costs, they would have done it.

It's not like BMW went to a turbo I-4 just to be dicks.
And just how much scrutiny have you applied? Compare the 2011 528 and the 2011 328. N52 with the 8AT in the 5er, N52 with the 6AT in the 3er. The only difference is the transmission. Compare the 2011 335 and the 2012/13 335. The only difference is the transmission. Compare the 2013 528, 328, and 335. The N20 has direct injection, which improves fuel economy. The N52 did not have direct injection.
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  #47  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:45 PM
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The mileage sucked on the E90 loaners I've driven, like worse than my 330i despite being slower. I think BMW did what they had to do, leapfrog to the front of the class with mpg and power in the base 3 series. Can't think of a better example of BMW being a top engine maker.

Anyone complaining about sound can buy the 335i.
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  #48  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:48 PM
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still waiting for someone to post numbers saying the N52 with ZF8 is same MPG as the N20
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  #49  
Old 11-28-2012, 12:49 PM
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And just how much scrutiny have you applied? Compare the 2011 528 and the 2011 328. N52 with the 8AT in the 5er, N52 with the 6AT in the 3er.
2011 528i (8spd) = 22/32
2011 328i (6spd) = 18/28

That's interesting, I had no idea the 8 speed made that big a difference.

So maybe mpg isn't better (it usually isn't in turbo 4s), but there's lots of other benefits.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:49 PM
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I would like to see some facts that say the N20 with the ZF8 gets the same mileage as the N52 with the ZF8

and please dont use other cars as an example.
The 2011 528 N52 without direct injection with 8AT, 22 & 32. The 2013 528 N20 with direct injection with 8AT, 24 & 34. 2011 328 N52 without direct injection with 6AT, 18 & 28. 4 mpg better on both ratings for the 2011 528 v 2011 328, no difference except the transmission.

2011 335, 6AT, 19 & 28. 2012/13 335, 8AT, 23 & 33. Exactly the same motor in every way, only difference is the transmission.
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