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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Talk about the E83 BMW X3 in this forum!

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  #1  
Old 02-21-2017, 07:29 PM
Ben007 Ben007 is offline
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Post Transfer Case Service Engine Rough

Alright, this is driving me nuts...

A couple of months ago I took down my transfer case to changed the chain drive. It was rubbing in winter since it's an aluminium shell. Aluminium shrinks way more than steel and the chain relaxes with use. To do this, the engine and transmission all have to be tilted down (as it is designed to) ..but for about 12 days. Took a while to get the parts required.

After putting the transfer case back on and raising the engine back into it's place, started the engine. Right there and then the engine started rough and vibrated. Nothing excessive but more than enough to raise eye brows.

Since then I've inspected and cleaned the DISA valve, ICV valve, injectors, changed spark plugs, tested all ignition coils and even moved them around. Still rough at idle and most RPM levels. Changed my mounts which were still good. It improved it slightly but slowly came back to roughness.

Next I used Seafoam engine cleaner into the air intake as directed and even dropped about an ounce of the stuff directly in each cylinder and left it over night. That improved the roughness for a little while but again it came back to crap.

As well, it runs better when cold than at optimum temp. When I slap it in neutral going at various speeds, goes to smooth operation. So nothing wrong down the drive train (I think). At this point it is now slowly getting worse every day I drive it.

So: Can it be the manual tranny? timing chains? Vanos (which I already serviced long before) Piston rings? intake/exhaust valves?

I have the blu-tooth Torque ODB2 scanner and no fault codes are coming up. Any good ideas gents??

Last edited by Ben007; 02-21-2017 at 07:38 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-21-2017, 07:40 PM
swampX3 swampX3 is online now
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post cat O2 sensors

>any chance when you lowered the trans etc you stretched/damaged any O2 sensor cables ???....we have done this some years back ....best wishes

>your present software setup may not get all the info you need.....download rheingold to get at all the proprietary codes

>start at post 7 and fan out

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=1#post9972460
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  #3  
Old 02-22-2017, 06:35 AM
timarnold timarnold is offline
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What is puzzling is the lack of codes. About the only thing that would be stressed by tilting the engine/transmission would be the Y connector between the MAF and Throttle Body & ICV. I would check that for tears.
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  #4  
Old 02-22-2017, 08:04 AM
Ben007 Ben007 is offline
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Re: Sensors

swampX3: When I tilted the engine it was still on it's mounts. Don't think the sensor cables got stretched. However, perhaps a sensor is defective. I'll have to see if I can check them without changing the sensor.

timarnold: Actually I checked the Y connector hose which sits above the intake boot. Seems fine, no tears.

Addendum: The coarse vibration and roaring gets worse when accelerating. Getting loud in the cabin but stemming from the engine.

Last edited by Ben007; 02-22-2017 at 10:28 AM.
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  #5  
Old 02-22-2017, 08:36 AM
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Did you damage the engine mounts or the engine mount bolts?
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  #6  
Old 02-22-2017, 10:25 AM
Ben007 Ben007 is offline
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Re: Mounts

Engine mounts were fine. Bolts are good and tight. Even check them twice.

The issue sounds more from inside the engine. I wonder if I damaged the exhaust manifolds or cats. I inspected them and cannot find anything visible. Very frustrating.
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  #7  
Old 02-22-2017, 12:56 PM
timarnold timarnold is offline
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I assume you separated the Exhaust Manifold from the Exhaust Pipe. Could you have exhaust leaking at the gasket? That would explain the noise, but I don't think it would make it run rough.
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  #8  
Old 02-22-2017, 01:58 PM
swampX3 swampX3 is online now
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block exhaust for a pressure test

>to check the exhaust is ok simply block both pipes with a rag or flat hands till pressure builds up or not .....it doesn't take long and its good to have a helper looking up front around the engine for escaping exhaust possibilities

>....double check nothing is hanging on the drive shafts after the reassembly ....stuff like heat shields etc
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  #9  
Old 02-22-2017, 02:06 PM
swampX3 swampX3 is online now
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When I slap it in neutral going at various speeds, goes to smooth operation

quote ...."When I slap it in neutral going at various speeds, goes to smooth operation"

>neutral safety switch/wiring issue on and off ?????

>also ....check the O2 sensors from under the beauty cover over the engine ....unplug them and check their heater circuit is OK and check the voltages on the other two wires ....use the fiftees kid lean codes youtube to get an idea of what to do with the O2 sensor plugs


Last edited by swampX3; 02-22-2017 at 02:08 PM. Reason: add link
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  #10  
Old 02-22-2017, 02:40 PM
swampX3 swampX3 is online now
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view from about 12 mins 50 seconds for detail on O2 sensors

>a lot of good stuff in the entire video .....but ....view from about 12 mins and 50 seconds in for the O2 sensor stuff

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  #11  
Old 02-22-2017, 02:47 PM
Ben007 Ben007 is offline
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Re:timarnold

I did not separate the two (wish I could) ..they are rusted fused together. I just dropped the exhaust far enough to work around it. I wonder if I might of damaged the inside of the cat(s).
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  #12  
Old 02-22-2017, 03:39 PM
Ben007 Ben007 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampX3 View Post
quote ...."When I slap it in neutral going at various speeds, goes to smooth operation"

>neutral safety switch/wiring issue on and off ?????

>also ....check the O2 sensors from under the beauty cover over the engine ....unplug them and check their heater circuit is OK and check the voltages on the other two wires ....use the fiftees kid lean codes youtube to get an idea of what to do with the O2 sensor plugs


You know that could be a possibility but I thought all cables were not affected by the tilting of the tranny. But I'll certainly double check by the weekend. Does the switch also pertain to manual tranny? Mind you it still runs rough while in neutral at idle. The test of slapping it in neutral while on highway was to pin point the vibration and wasn't the drive shalt or transfer case.

I will also check my O2 cat sensors but again there was no work done around the sensors except when I dropped the engine down...

Last edited by Ben007; 02-22-2017 at 03:56 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2017, 06:20 AM
timarnold timarnold is offline
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Since the car seems to start ok, this probably isn't the problem, but it would be worth checking the condition of the engine ground strap.
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2017, 07:02 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is online now
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not usual to do damage when lowering exhaust carefully

>in practice you can lower and move the exhaust from side to side etc a substantial amount without doing the cats/piping any damage....BUT ...gotta be careful not to pinch and cables/break any ground straps

>a good look at the on screen outputs of engine/O2 sensor performance will help pinpoint any issues as shown in the videos posted......especially on the older M54/M52 etc engines with vacuum hoses under the rear manifold and crack prone inlet piping/boots

>did you get chance to check the exhaust back pressure ????
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  #15  
Old 02-23-2017, 07:11 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is online now
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showing the common vac leaks etc and under the rea manifold issues

>do a swift check under the rear driver side manifold for popped off/rotted off vacuum piping and vacuum plug/plugs

>
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  #16  
Old 02-23-2017, 07:13 AM
swampX3 swampX3 is online now
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some good views of around your engine in this one

>you will see the under manifold vacuum lines/plugs when he gets to the section near the starter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=7&v=vifOtdye6cg
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  #17  
Old 02-23-2017, 04:01 PM
Ben007 Ben007 is offline
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Thanks for the info swampX3. I will look into the vacuum lines and sensors this Sunday. I'll retest the injectors but on the fuel rail this time and see how the stream fans out.
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  #18  
Old 02-24-2017, 03:38 PM
timarnold timarnold is offline
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I hate to send one on a wild goose chase, but the symptoms sort of sound like the timing chain maybe has jumped a tooth, possibly from the oil draining out of the timing chain tensioner. It's a bit of a pain, but you could check the static timing.
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  #19  
Old 02-25-2017, 06:41 AM
Ben007 Ben007 is offline
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Re: timarnold

That's the one issue I've been mulling over. It does make sense since the engine was tilted for almost two weeks. I wonder if the tensioners needed to be adjusted prior to and the chain ended up sliding or simply slipped off the guides.. Anyway, this is last resort.

I do have an oil leak at the separator valve down to the dip stick drain. However, it's been like that for a couple of years now. Funny all of a sudden it's now a vacuum leak
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  #20  
Old Today, 04:04 PM
Ben007 Ben007 is offline
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Update

So, finally got some time on the x-ploder this weekend and did this:

-Did a vacuum test by removing the dip stip and covering the top with a latex glove. Started the car and glove sucked in = good. Dip stick back on.

-As above, did same to the Distribution piece which sit on top of intake manifold. I unplugged the two connections from the CCV system and covered the two ports with same clove fingers. Seemed like a good vacuum. Latex stretched in quite far = good.

-Swapped the O2 connectors from bank 1 to 2, POST cat. Ran about the same. Swapped them back. Swapped bank 1 to 2, PRE cat. Ran worse! Swapped them back.

So what I've learned is likely PRE cat O2(s) are either dirty or malfunctioning. Need special socket for removal...so later.

Stupid CCV system has issues too. I've plugged in the ODB with Torque with smart phone and got engine missfire codes pistons 1 to 3. While driving I ran the Monitor app and noticed the vacuum at idle is only 21 inHg.

Trying to validate what is nominal inHg for M54 3.0L. Does anybody know? 25?

Lastly, I'm almost convince the CCV separator is either damaged or clogged somewhere. HORRIBLE design, hate it. I would say for Canadian climate, clean it after every two winters.

Last edited by Ben007; Today at 04:09 PM.
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  #21  
Old Today, 04:56 PM
swampX3 swampX3 is online now
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21 inches not too bad at idle

>21 (twenty one) inches of mercury is not too bad at idle (not a perfect vacuum measurement because of the manifold setup but we measure ours on the M54 by popping off the plug on the rear of the intake manifold underside)

>a new unit used to give around 23(twenty three) inches of mercury at idle

>there should be just about 2 (two) inches of mercury vacuum when you put your palm over the oil fill hole at idle on your M54 engine ....and ....if it sucks in hard you have a CCV problem....another test is to place a piece of plain paper over the oil fill hole ....there should be just enough vacuum (2 inches) to hold it but not suck it in

Last edited by swampX3; Today at 04:58 PM.
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