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E60 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series (E60 chassis) was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E60 is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 03-13-2011, 10:12 PM
vash68 vash68 is offline
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Question Thoughts on purchasing 2008 535xi wagon

Hey guys, I am totally new to bmw cars, need to ask a few question, please go easy on me
I have my eye on a bmw certified used 535xi sport wagon with about 30Kmi on the clock with array of options incl navi, cold and convenience packages, real leather, all looks good to me, drives well for a heavy car like that.
It has 1 year of manuf warranty left, after which 2 year/50Kmi BMW CPO kicks in
Dealer is asking 38K for it. Now to the questions.

1. Does the price sound correct or should I search for non-certified and possibly get some discount (how much?)

2. What are common areas of failures on these cars?
I have never owned a wagon or BMW before, is there anything specific to this car I should look for/ pay attention at during test drive/inspection?

3. Are there any big known issues I should ask dealer to rectify before closing the deal?
I asked sales person if they would perform a TSB to replace high pressure fuel pump, to which he answered "not untill it fails on this car". Does this sound right, this is CPO car after all?

4. Should I consider purchasing extended aftermarket warranty at this point since dealer does not offer any past 2 years of CPO warranty?

5. Can I upgrade wheels from stock 225-17" to 18" and at least 235mm wide?
Am I limited in my choice or size in any way, e.g bigger wheel/tire will throw off AWD system on this car?

6. OK, no flames please Can I find a full bodykit or at least some aero parts for this wagon? Nothing ricey, but rather some higher quality kit/parts.

Thanks for your input!

Last edited by vash68; 03-13-2011 at 10:13 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2011, 11:02 PM
ehchan ehchan is offline
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Way too expensive! I wouldn't pay more than 35k for that car...

Things to look for:

1. Ticking noise on startup could signal bad wastegate and/or turbo(s)

2. HPFP recall -- if it has an old fuel pump, it should be on the recall.

3. Look for water damage in the spare tire area... Could signal clogged moonroof drains.

4. Search the forums! It's all in there!
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2011, 11:37 AM
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TLO03 TLO03 is offline
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Service history can tell alot..
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2011, 01:50 PM
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TheViolentVicar TheViolentVicar is offline
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I think it is about $5000 high for the car with that mileage and equipment.
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2008 535xi Estate | Deep Sea Blue Metallic | Bamboo Anthracite | Sexy Charcoal Interior Except for Posh-Spice-Cleavage-Colored Comfort Seats | Belly Button Lint | Magic Don't Need No Key Package | Get Very Bad Directions Package | Intra-Uterine Bass Drum | Doesn't Work With Most Phones Package | Fila Brasileiro Snot All Over Rear Windows | Heated This, That, and the Other | Very Considerate Headlights | White-Knuckled-Passenger Package | JB4 |
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  #5  
Old 03-18-2011, 02:29 PM
greenX3 greenX3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheViolentVicar View Post
I think it is about $5000 high for the car with that mileage and equipment.
I love my 08 535xiT. That particular one is WAY overpriced, I think. Keep looking - they're rare but they're out there.
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  #6  
Old 03-18-2011, 03:53 PM
Phoenix1 Phoenix1 is offline
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No problem - this won't hurt a bit...

I have a 3 year old 2008 535XiT wagon with 35K miles that I bought off lease last month and will give you my thoughts. (which I know someone on this forum will point out as being wrong) I use it for "light duty" hauling (bike, kids, store) and love the utility.

Wholesale for the car is ~$28K so a used without CPO should be around $31K and with CPO~$34K (CPO is worth ~$3K). It may not be the LOWEST price out there, but how long do you want to look?

If you want a longer warranty for a NON CPO'd car you have to buy it before the factory 4/50 warranty expires and it WILL cost you more that the CPO. A 24mo/24K extended warranty is ~$4000 and you can buy or up to 7 year 100K miles, etc. of "BMW Ultimate protection".

Service issues are well documeted HPFP problems (covered under BMW extended 7yr 100K warranty on all cars). If the HPFP has not failed, most likely they will not replace it until it does.

There are problems with the drains on the panaramic sunroof - If the become clogged, water will drain under the spare tire where the electronics are, fry them and you'll pay over $3K to get them fix (not covered under ANY warranty).

If the dealer is worth anything, they will let you spend time with the service advisor to pull the complete history of the car - and pull the spare to see if there is any evdience of water. If it is clean - great!

If you're going to garage the car and keep it immaculate (I do) you should be OK for years to come. I'm going to "risk it" and keep a reserve fund just in case...

Even thought it's a wagon, it's not a Subaru (or pickup truck) and IMHO if you treat it like one, you'll probably have many problems.

It's a great car! If it's got the options, color and condition you are looking for, pull the trigger!

OK Forum - skewer me now!!!
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  #7  
Old 03-18-2011, 05:14 PM
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TheViolentVicar TheViolentVicar is offline
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I agree with all of the above, with some qualification.

First, there is no other wagon this much fun to drive. Only Mercedes (done that once), Audi (driven that), and Volvo (done that 4 times) make anything I'd even consider, and there is nothing in that group that stands up against the 335 as an overall integrated driving experience (my E39 328 didn't even come close). Its engine gremlins are a bit scary, but when it works the N54 is a feat of engineering that, IMHO, is unmatched.

BMW problems are like cancer - you can minimize the risk, but there is an element of randomness to them that prevents you stopping them altogether. This is true of any car, but BMW problems occur with about an order of magnitude greater frequency than, say, your average Civic or Camry.

Some dealers will warranty the roof leak. I myself get them to check and clear the drains every time the car is there (and insist that I get a written confirmation on the service invoice), so that if a leak/fry cycle happens, I can scream bloody murder. I think I'd hit them with a small claims action if mine got cooked and it was not covered.

IMHO, anyone that treats a BMW like a pickup truck made an imbecilic choice of vehicles.

If the price doesn't bother you and the car is otherwise OK, go for it.

BTW, my wheels are P245 40r18, so I expect you could put on the same.
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2008 535xi Estate | Deep Sea Blue Metallic | Bamboo Anthracite | Sexy Charcoal Interior Except for Posh-Spice-Cleavage-Colored Comfort Seats | Belly Button Lint | Magic Don't Need No Key Package | Get Very Bad Directions Package | Intra-Uterine Bass Drum | Doesn't Work With Most Phones Package | Fila Brasileiro Snot All Over Rear Windows | Heated This, That, and the Other | Very Considerate Headlights | White-Knuckled-Passenger Package | JB4 |

Last edited by TheViolentVicar; 03-18-2011 at 05:16 PM.
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2011, 05:19 AM
Phoenix1 Phoenix1 is offline
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[QUOTE=TheViolentVicar;5928715]I agree with all of the above, with some qualification.

First, there is no other wagon this much fun to drive. Only Mercedes (done that once), Audi (driven that), and Volvo (done that 4 times) make anything I'd even consider, and there is nothing in that group that stands up against the 335 as an overall integrated driving experience (my E39 328 didn't even come close). Its engine gremlins are a bit scary, but when it works the N54 is a feat of engineering that, IMHO, is unmatched....

VVicar - great addtional information!!!

I didn't want to blabber on too much about what a dream this car is to drive - the only 50/50 balanced wagon out there. I have had the Dinan S2 upgrade (378HP/417 ft/lb) since the car was new and the mid range acceleration is huge - and surprises the hell out ot many "sports cars" on the highway.

My only gripe is how low the front control arms are. I have replaced one (bent by a pothole), hit a curb pulling into a driveway (only required an alignment) and can not use car washes since the drivers lower control arm rubs on the tire guide (just had it replaced by my car wash who had swore thier "new, high quality" car wash wouldn't do this.)

Cheers!
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  #9  
Old 03-19-2011, 02:12 PM
vash68 vash68 is offline
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All great info, thank you guys for taking your time!

I have been in Acura camp for the last 7 years, so appreciate your warning on reliability.
I am a DIY type, so that should help


I repriced this wagon on Edmunds and kbb, and with all relevant options (Premium, Cold and Sport package (17" rims), Navi, headup display, all heated/front ventilated seats, park distance control, remote keyless entry/start it comes up to about $39K for a CPO, which a few hundred over dealer's asking price. The dealer would not budge, it has been a week.

I shopped via internet and getting better pricing, esp in NY/MA area, around 35-36K for the same car/mileage (20-30Kmi). Less popular car over there? I am in CO where everyone and their mother drive a Subaru or Audi wagon, but very few BMW wagons.


I don't mind flying to NY/NJ area and picking up the car there, but in that case should I be concerned with
1. rust/salt damage (I lived in NY/NJ - no such element in CO
2. bad roads comparing to CO - more suspension wear and tear (great note on control arms, thanks! I though only Audi had similar issue)

Any pointers on negotiations?

Should I consider non-CPO, but then what vendor should I go with for extended warranty - I just want a piece of mind
It has been a while since I bought a user vehicle, it is much easier to negotiate a new one IMO
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  #10  
Old 03-20-2011, 08:35 AM
gcreese gcreese is offline
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There are very few BMW wagons in Massachusetts. Subarus are popular, as are all other forms of SUVs. For upscale wagons, Volvo is first, followed by Audi. I see another BMW wagon probably once every three weeks.

I love my 2010 wagon. The reason I went with a 2009 vs. a 2010 is that the 2010 iDrive is disk-based.
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2010 535i xDrive Sport Wagon (April 2009): Deep Sea Blue / Cream Beige / Sport, Premium, Cold Weather Packages
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  #11  
Old 03-20-2011, 01:59 PM
Phoenix1 Phoenix1 is offline
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Availability of wagons in NJ/NY

.....

I don't mind flying to NY/NJ area and picking up the car there, but in that case should I be concerned with
1. rust/salt damage (I lived in NY/NJ - no such element in CO
2. bad roads comparing to CO - more suspension wear and tear (great note on control arms, thanks! I though only Audi had similar issue)

Any pointers on negotiations?

Should I consider non-CPO, but then what vendor should I go with for extended warranty - I just want a piece of mind
It has been a while since I bought a user vehicle, it is much easier to negotiate a new one IMO [/QUOTE]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vash68 -

You are correct that there are a lot of 2008-2010 wagons in the NY/NJ area. My theory(totally objective): Lot's of people lease here for 3 years (and write it off) and are turning in 2008 wagons. Since the wagon isn't "trendy" anymore, has had HPFP problems and/or won't be imported anymore, most people have leased new SUV's or the new 5 rather than buying the wagons off lease. (Just bought mine off lease for $31K and the residual on the lease was over $36K - I know the original owner took really good care of the car)

Regarding the salt and bad roads - any low mileage car will have low miles in salt and on the roads. I've been in CO and most of our roads are not any worse. If the car has been well maintained and washed regularly, not sure if salt is an issue.

There are a number of certified 2008 and *new* 2010 wagons at some dealers in NJ (www.openroadbmw.com) and some very nice, low mileage 2010 wagons from the BMW headquarters (in NJ) executive fleet for $50K. I have called about all of the above and am suprised at how inflexible the dealers are on price for cars that have been on their lots for 6+ months...guess I don't know the business.

Again, the question is how much time and money are you going to spend saving a few $$$ on a car on the East Coast? Also, if you buy a CPO's car from the East Coast, your local dealer MAY be less cooperative if anything happens.

Regarding warranties, this may help a bit http://www.carbuyingtips.com/warranty.htm, however, their prices may not be a whole lot cheaper for the same coverage and you have to deal with a 3rd party. I still think CPO is the way to go.

Let us know...
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2011, 05:32 PM
eaglesfan eaglesfan is offline
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Vash68, You can buy my 2010 535XiT garage kept with 10,500 miles for $45K. My wife wants an SUV--theres no issues with the car. Its white with black interior, nav, premium, etc..

Bought it in May 2010 new off the showroom floor at Otto's BMW.

Best regards, John
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  #13  
Old 03-21-2011, 05:37 AM
BMW535xia BMW535xia is offline
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vash >>> Go South to look for that BMW! i would ignore anything north of here, and that includes your mention to NY, NJ, and now PA. i would suggest that if your looking to go east, then travel more south to VA area, NC, and of course SC, GA, etc. i was prepared to travel as far as AL for our recently purchased 535. but, my wife found the car she wanted to buy, soooo...lol, and i get to drive it on the weekends.

dn
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2011, 06:04 AM
obi.wan obi.wan is offline
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Curious:why are dealers not willing to negotiate on the leftover 2010 wagons?
If I remember correctly, late last year, incentives were close to 10k off MSRP
I guess the incentives are not around anymore but still....
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  #15  
Old 03-21-2011, 07:23 AM
ehchan ehchan is offline
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There are several in southern California that pop up now and then... I shopped at least 3 different cars within one week during new years. Check out Crevier, Pacific, and up north, Sonnen or San Francisco.
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  #16  
Old 03-21-2011, 10:48 AM
BMW535xia BMW535xia is offline
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there are alot of X3s here and quite a few X5s, but few X6s. don't know what the inventory may be for the resale market though.
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  #17  
Old 03-21-2011, 01:10 PM
Phoenix1 Phoenix1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vash68 View Post
Hey guys, I am totally new to bmw cars, need to ask a few question, please go easy on me
I have my eye on a bmw certified used 535xi sport wagon with about 30Kmi on the clock with array of options incl navi, cold and convenience packages, real leather, all looks good to me, drives well for a heavy car like that.
It has 1 year of manuf warranty left, after which 2 year/50Kmi BMW CPO kicks in
Dealer is asking 38K for it. Now to the questions....some aero parts for this wagon? Nothing ricey, but rather some higher quality kit/parts.

Thanks for your input!
Another thing to make sure you try are the "20 way power" seats - that come either as a stand alone option or part of the Sport option (I ordered them on my 535XiT and they are fantastic). Have seen some gripes from people about the standard 535 seats. May not make a difference to you, but...

Only problem is that I've only seem them on about 10% of the certified cars for sale - which further limits an already small # of vehicles. I think only a few more than 2000 535 wagons were sold in 2008 in the US...

Good luck!
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  #18  
Old 03-21-2011, 04:55 PM
vash68 vash68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix1 View Post
.....



Just bought mine off lease for $31K and the residual on the lease was over $36K - I know the original owner took really good care of the car


Also, if you buy a CPO's car from the East Coast, your local dealer MAY be less cooperative if anything happens.

Let us know...

Phoenix,
thanks for a wealth of info!

It is replies like yours that wanna make me buy a car from east cost since the price seems about 4-5K lower
What mileage/options do you have on your wagon?

I thought CPO was rendered anywhere in the country regardless of place of purchase.
What if I move later


Yes, the perspective wagon has 20way adj seats, I just have no idea how to remove the front passenger headrest (electric)


eaglesfan,

unfortunately my budget for this purchase is hovering around 35K, my local dealer has two 2010 new wagons that they will let go for around 50K, no nav or sport though and not my color preference (black).
But I will sure keep your offer in mind in case I get desperate

Last edited by vash68; 03-21-2011 at 04:57 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-21-2011, 07:39 PM
eaglesfan eaglesfan is offline
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No worries--good luck. If you remain patient you will find the right car. The only reason i can think of on why dealers are not reducing the price is they have larger wagon customers in their customer base and they will eventually come in for one. Its not like there a hundreds of them out there.
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  #20  
Old 03-21-2011, 08:20 PM
vash68 vash68 is offline
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eaglesfan,

why don't you PM me with you personal email (will be a good test for my PM capability
and a few more details on your wagon. I may just start thinking about it.

Thanks
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  #21  
Old 03-22-2011, 07:46 AM
Phoenix1 Phoenix1 is offline
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[QUOTE=vash68;5936113]Phoenix,
thanks for a wealth of info!

It is replies like yours that wanna make me buy a car from east cost since the price seems about 4-5K lower
What mileage/options do you have on your wagon?

I thought CPO was rendered anywhere in the country regardless of place of purchase.
What if I move later

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My wagon: Premium, Sport, Logic 7, Heated front Seats. Aftermarket Dinan S2 upgrade (378HP/417ft/lb ) and Escort 9500ci built in radar detector and laser jammer (it works!!). The buyout from BMW was through the dealer and the price was the auction price +~$3K.

BTW - the aftermarket investments ($4K) means very little to a trade in. One of the reasons I bought the car is I would have to take them BOTH off if I would have given back the car...

CPO is theoretically supposed to be honored anywhere by any dealer - but you usually are given better service, attitude and a loaner car at the dealer you get the car from. There have been stories about people having to go through their original dealer to ultimately get things fixed under CPO.
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  #22  
Old 03-27-2011, 05:34 PM
eaglesfan eaglesfan is offline
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PM sent
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  #23  
Old 03-28-2011, 07:59 AM
BMPEOPLES BMPEOPLES is offline
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When we made the choice to buy a BMW wagon- it had to be a 5 series.

Volvo lost its way starting in 1999 and the rescue party still hasn't found them. (My first car was a 78 245 that I put over 450k miles on, and have owned several other Volvos over the years)

Audi is a front wheel drive car first, and all-wheel drive when needed therefore its handling characteristics are indicative of that fact.

Subaru shares the Audi's engineering flaw (my opinion anyway)

Mercedes..... I do like that E63 Wagon.... but I could not (no matter how hard I tried to convince the CFO) get to pull the trigger on that. The 4Matics are slugs with the V6

The new Acura wagon... is yet another front wheel drive derivative.

There are very few BMW Wagons on the road for sure, and just because your buying a CPO from a dealer in Mountain View, CO doesnt mean the car is from your local area. Check the carfax for registration history. The car we bought used locally here in Mass was sold and lived in Scottsdale AZ. They all go to Manheim Auctions, and then BMWNA decides the best market for auctioning the cars.

One thing that made us not go with a CPO car was that there are a lot of things that are not covered by that warranty. We bought a car that was almost $5k less than its equivalent CPO sibling, and I verified that the maintenances were not missed and that all service campains were completed.

One more observation regarding the 20 way seats. Our car has the sport pack with those seats, and the stiffer suspension, and 17 wheels. The difference in handling and comfort is night and day. I dont believe that I would ever buy a BMW wagon without that option.

Last edited by BMPEOPLES; 03-28-2011 at 08:08 AM.
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  #24  
Old 03-28-2011, 08:15 AM
YGBSM YGBSM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMPEOPLES View Post
One more observation regarding the 20 way seats. Our car has the sport pack with those seats, and the stiffer suspension, and 17 wheels. The difference in handling and comfort is night and day. I dont believe that I would ever buy a BMW wagon without that option.
No US E61 came from the factory with a stiffer suspension. Not even the sport or M Sport packages included a stiffer suspension.
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  #25  
Old 03-28-2011, 08:29 AM
BMPEOPLES BMPEOPLES is offline
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Originally Posted by YGBSM View Post
No US E61 came from the factory with a stiffer suspension. Not even the sport or M Sport packages included a stiffer suspension.
My Bad... what I should have said is that the suspension feels stiffer with the sport pack.

Must just be the wheels and tires that make the difference then.
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