So... are the latest run-flats really that much better?

Or do you guys still not like 'em?

My run-flats only have a few hundred miles on 'em, as I put snows on after only a week with the car.

So should I sell the run flats? Or put them back on in the spring?

For the record, I hate how the F30 has no room for a donut... which of course is a vote for the run flats. I'll be buying a donut for the winter (snows aren't fun-flat) and just deal with it in the trunk... but if I use the run flats in the spring I can take it out.

The newer generation run-flats are fine.

There are plenty of winter tire run flat options as well. Or you can risk no spare and just put a can of tire patch in your trunk.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

The newer generation run-flats are fine.

There are plenty of winter tire run flat options as well. Or you can risk no spare and just put a can of tire patch in your trunk.

Is the can of tire patch reliable enough to get you home? Does it still work if there's a nail in the tire?

They've come a long way. Much more refined now then they were three years ago.

Originally Posted by otonimus

Is the can of tire patch reliable enough to get you home? Does it still work if there's a nail in the tire?

Generally they are designed to seal up the tire well enough that you can limp it home or to a shop. I don't know what the speed/range is on these products as I live in a largely populated area and have never needed to use it.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

Generally they are designed to seal up the tire well enough that you can limp it home or to a shop. I don't know what the speed/range is on these products as I live in a largely populated area and have never needed to use it.

I keep a compressor in the car, so sounds like it'll get me home. Thanks!

Really depends on what you expect out of a tire. If you want the Michelin PS2/PSS performance then RFTs are only 60% as good even for the summer tires. If you want Michelin PS2 AS perf then the RFTs are 80% as good for AS tires.

Originally Posted by av98

Really depends on what you expect out of a tire. If you want the Michelin PS2/PSS performance then RFTs are only 60% as good even for the summer tires..

Your opinion is not backed up by numbers. In fact the PS2 ZP and regular PSS are so close as to be indistinguishable in track situations. The numbers in the TireRack's tests show that the PS2 is a few percentage points behind in most tests, and as good or better in braking tests.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Your opinion is not backed up by numbers. In fact the PS2 ZP and regular PSS are so close as to be indistinguishable in track situations. The numbers in the TireRack's tests show that the PS2 is a few percentage points behind in most tests, and as good or better in braking tests.

I don't think BMW ships with PS2 ZP, which would be nice

Can YOU post the link from Tirerack on the review YOU are referring to?

FWIW,

I assume BMW has been refining their suspension designs in addition to the tire manufacturers refining their RFT designs. The suspension is a system, the tires are one component.

My 2013 335i xDrive, which I have driven with two different sets of RFTs, is light years ahead in ride quality compared to my 2006 330Xi, the first year for RFTs on the 3 series. Don't know how much to attribute to the Dynamic Handling option, but the ride quality in my new car is on par with my previous 2008 535Xi non RFT vehicle.

Thanks
Bruce

Originally Posted by av98

I don't think BMW ships with PS2 ZP, which would be nice

Yes, they do, or at least did on the E9X cars. I don't know what the factory installs on F30s with the summer-tire option.

To the OP, yes, the latest run-flats are immensely improved. (You had options for winter run-flats also but as you've already bought the snows, it doesn't matter.) For my part, about the only ongoing beef I have with them is the expense. Prices appear to be falling slightly but you still pay a considerable premium for the run-flat capability.

Originally Posted by av98

...Can YOU post the link from Tirerack on the review YOU are referring to?

PS2 ZP: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=158
PSS: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=162

Look at the actual performance tests (lap time, slalom, etc.) The subjective charts (noise, comfort, etc.) do show a preference for the PSS. And this isn't a review, it's TEST results.

Originally Posted by floydarogers

PS2 ZP: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=158
PSS: http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=162

Look at the actual performance tests (lap time, slalom, etc.) The subjective charts (noise, comfort, etc.) do show a preference for the PSS. And this isn't a review, it's TEST results.

Thanks very helpful but at $434 a piece for 255/35/18 tires for the PS2 ZP vs $269 on the same size PSS, it's a no brainer which tire is better from a cost perspective.

Originally Posted by av98

Thanks very helpful but at $434 a piece for 255/35/18 tires for the PS2 ZP vs $269 on the same size PSS, it's a no brainer which tire is better from a cost perspective.

Ah, but the point is that you asserted that there was a huge performance gap, and there is not.

Run flats have come a long way. I expect price will flatten out on them a lot over the next few years till they only command a very small premium over non RFT tires.

Originally Posted by voip-ninja

Ah, but the point is that you asserted that there was a huge performance gap, and there is not.

Run flats have come a long way. I expect price will flatten out on them a lot over the next few years till they only command a very small premium over non RFT tires.

Your statement is objective because, I haven't seen any F30 3 series optioned with PS2 ZPs; yes maybe on E9x but not on F30. However, pre-RFTs the PS1 & PS2s were standard tire options.

Comparably on performance if you compare the Bridgestone 050A RFTs which do come stock on the F30, they are still far behind the PSS non-RFTs. So unless they include PS2 ZPs as stock F30 rubbers, it's still about an 80% diff in perf; closer to what my assumption on the PS2 AS vs RFTs statement.

Originally Posted by av98

Comparably on performance if you compare the Bridgestone 050A RFTs which do come stock on the F30, they are still far behind the PSS non-RFTs. So unless they include PS2 ZPs as stock F30 rubbers, it's still about an 80% diff in perf; closer to what my assumption on the PS2 AS vs RFTs statement.

OK, but consider carefully what you're really arguing: That the performance of the Pilot Super Sport/Pilot Sport 2 is superior to the stock tire fitment on the F30. This is not exactly shocking because the PSS is arguably the most advanced summer-performance tire you can buy at the moment, with the PS2 only a little behind. Run-flat technology or lack thereof doesn't enter into it. They're just flat better than the Bridgestones.

For what it's worth, both tire models (PS2 and RE050) are available in run-flat and go-flat versions. The only valid comparison to support your argument is to compare RFT and non-RFT versions of the same tire. In the face of that comparison, as floyd pointed out the argument falls flat.

i just traded in my A4 which had conti sport contact DWSes on them.

my new 328i m-sport has runflats obviously and they are great. its somehow less harsh than the DWS (the dws are all season sport i guess).

but yeah can't even really tell they are runflats. a friend of mine when he had a 2006 325i sport pack and my mom used to have a non sport 07 328i, with runflats i remember it being brutally bad. but these new runflats... big difference.

I honestly forget I have RFTs. My friend's 07 328xi however reminds you over every bump. I'd say they must be greatly improved.

I have the Bridgestone Potenza S001 RFT, Max Performance Summer Tire and I can't tell they if they were RFTs. I rode in a 07/08 328i and it was rough and bumpy (the driver said it was the RFTs).

I have not driven an F30 and as everyone here knows I was a very vocal critic of the RFTs on my 335i. Our 750Li X-Driven has RFTs and they are not an issue at all.

I have not heard anyone on the F30 forum complain about the RFTs that come on the car. I suspect that it is a combination of the fact that the new RFTs are much improved and that BMW has gotten better at suspension design (for RFTs) with their newer models.

I think it is inevitable that in the future all tires will be RFTs (with perhaps the exception being some niche market very high performance tires). All things being equal I can't think of any reason why I would choose non RFTs over RFTs. The problem for me was that all things were not equal and the trade off in comfort and performance with the RFTs as implemented on my 335i with sport package was unacceptable.

CA

Can we rename this thread the RFT LoveFest?

Originally Posted by floydarogers

Can we rename this thread the RFT LoveFest?

It does appear to be a watershed moment. I don't recall seeing a thread before where RFT-bashing was the minority position--maybe the technology actually has advanced, at last!

I have the contis on for another day and they are great. Drove them obviously when took delivery in Munich and on the Autobahn I dont think anyone could have complained about the performance quality or drive quality of the tires. That being said, I am putting new wheel on the car on Saturday and besides the big size increase I am moving to the Hankook Ventus V12 tires and at that time should be able to give a somewhat skewed (due to the size change) review about the RFTs compared to non RFT super performance tires on California roads.

Originally Posted by Zeichen311

... maybe the technology actually has advanced, at last!

...or maybe we have just resigned ourselves to the fact that it is the way it is and commenting on them is not going to change anything.

I still think they suck (price, harshness, performance), but the way my wife use the car as a commuter they do their duty, plus I know she can limp home IF she has a flat that barely ever happens (touch wood).

For the current purpose the benefits outweighs the drawbacks, but if I was driving it, I would have changed the tires out for non-RFT and carried a fix kit (leatherman, reamer, gorilla snot, glue and pump) in the car as I do with my other cars.

.

It's a night and day difference from the first generation.