335is or an M3

Originally Posted by MMME30W

Out of curiosity, I went to BMW USA web site to look for a quick summary of the 335is, but didn't find a good quick overview of what makes an 'is' (and I could very well have missed it).

What does an is give you over a regular 335?

Personally, if you don't need an M car, the 335 (in whatever form) probably makes a better daily car...the mpg on an M makes for frequent fuel stops. I mean, not complaining about the cost, which is part and parcel of owning a V8, but sometimes you do wish for a larger fuel tank.

When my wife and I purchased her 335is Coupe I compiled all the information and online reviews that I could find and incorporated them into our European Delivery Blog. IIRC, the car was announced approximately in January 2010 and BMW hosted a driving event at the Estoril racetrack in Portugal. The car was first released approximately in June 2010, so most of the reviews of the car were done between the January 2010 and June 2010 time frame although some "second look" reviews are as late as January 2011.

When you read all of the online reviews, many of which were printed in the magazines that reviewed them, you will see why most of those reviewers would choose the 335is over an M3 for most driving. Bottom line, if you're not planning on tracking an M3, it's a waste for most drivers as they will never realize the full potential of the M3 on the street and they certainly won't realize the performance edge that the M3 has over the 335is Coupe. Personally, we chose the 335is Coupe because we believed it was the better daily driver taking the gas guzzler tax, the decreased mileage, and the increased insurance into consideration. And we track our cars but only 1-2 times a year, whereas my wife drives her car to work every weekday (and sometimes on weekends). Regardless of which model one chooses, both are excellent cars and what is the "best" car for one person is not the best car for everyone and all the debate in the world isn't going to change that.

Here's the page about the 335is from my Euro Delivery blog.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Did you ask Simon what his street car is?

CA

Unless I misunderstood, I remember his speaking about "his" BMW while driving us around the track and discussing aspects of the M3, while I was enjoying the near-death experience! For some reason, I left with the distinct impression that he drove an M3. Regardless, he made sure to note that the track M3 could not be pushed more than what he did that day. And I understand now what it means to be a good driver and push a car to its limits, which is why some say to invest in driving time and lessons, not endless performance upgrades.

Anyway, what is Simon's street car? I'm curious now!

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

Grrrrrrrr....my Japanese Yellow Dogs gonna bark....

Find the ultra wide range of camber w/Ground Control's Street/School is, well, educational. By playing with settings, found behavior I didn't know about or expect.

'Course, if we play, we pay. Tires might not last long!

I've been waiting on Vorschlag's newest plates (for use with 60 or 61mm spring perches) to get some wear on the 'other' forums before I pull the trigger. The GC plates for the M are pretty harsh - no insulation at all, just solid cres bushings. The biggest surprises I've had so far came from toying with the rear damping rates on a square setup.

Originally Posted by Bemo

Unless I misunderstood, I remember his speaking about "his" BMW while driving us around the track and discussing aspects of the M3, while I was enjoying the near-death experience! For some reason, I left with the distinct impression that he drove an M3. Regardless, he made sure to note that the track M3 could not be pushed more than what he did that day. And I understand now what it means to be a good driver and push a car to its limits, which is why some say to invest in driving time and lessons, not endless performance upgrades.

Anyway, what is Simon's street car? I'm curious now!

Simons M3 is used as a track car for hot laps and for instruction and coaching for members of The Lime Rock Drivers Club. Interestingly with the exception of Stephanie, who purchased a Lime Rock Edition M3 (She also had a Cayman S, a mini, an Audi Wagon and Spec Miats) and one other member who has an M3 GTS (which is not street legal) I don't know of any other Club members (who get 60 track days per year) who have M3s.

For a while Simon had a 5 Series and after that he had an X5, both with Steptronics. He had often stated that he feels that cars should be "purpose built" and that he has no interest in driving a race car on the street. This holds true for all of the professional racers and coaches that I know. They universally tend to drive rather pedestrian vehicles as daily drivers.

I don't know where you got the idea that he could not push the car harder than he was that day.

Simon had often said that he thinks the M3 is a great car and LRP pace car driver Bob Green (whose daily driver is a Jeep Cherokee) feels the same way. LRP owner Skip Barber recently swapped out his M3 for a 650i.

I agree that investing in driving lessons makes more sense than investing in a higher performance car.

CA

I asked him flat out to push the M3 to its limits and he said that that was it. Agree that a car should be purpose-built but if the OP needs 1 car as a DD that doubles up as a helluva fun on the track, the M3 is perfect, I suppose so is the 335is but after all, this thread asked for our opinion, which is all I provided.
Hope you're doing well!

The 335is would make for a better daily driver-no doubt. If it were me I would get the M3.

Its interesting based on the mein car box how many people who said they would have bought the M3 did not actually do it & bought a 3xx instead.

3 series for a dd ! No need for the suspension and power (gas guzzle) of an m3 as a daily, unless you plan on picking up street races with fixed out civics ....

Originally Posted by Bimmer1995318ti

3 series for a dd ! No need for the suspension and power (gas guzzle) of an m3 as a daily, unless you plan on picking up street races with fixed out civics ....

Not so!!

A distinct pleasure from driveway speed to the limit of your ability, a great suspension delivers every minute of the ride....

If it must be one car a PDK Cayman or maybe even 997 should be within your budget. PASM is great too but that make them even harder to find used.

Am not sure who the M3 is aimed at these days. I see the sense in 'chipping' a 335i but the M3 is neither a track car not street car. Flashy, lots of power and sound good but I've not seen many of the current gen at track days.

Originally Posted by MP3_E46

Am not sure who the M3 is aimed at these days. I see the sense in 'chipping' a 335i but the M3 is neither a track car not street car. Flashy, lots of power and sound good but I've not seen many of the current gen at track days.

I've seen plenty of E9x M3s at autocrosses and at the track. There's probably a higher percentage of E46 and E30 M3s at the track but that's probably because these were more than likely bought used by younger drivers. As the price for used E9x M3s drops over the next few years I'll bet that you'll see lots of E9x M3s at the track.

Originally Posted by SD Z4MR

I've seen plenty of E9x M3s at autocrosses and at the track. There's probably a higher percentage of E46 and E30 M3s at the track but that's probably because these were more than likely bought used by younger drivers. As the price for used E9x M3s drops over the next few years I'll bet that you'll see lots of E9x M3s at the track.

Most likely. SoCal is special too

We had a guy with a E92 M3 at the local AutoX often. It was easy to spot when he was there as it span out on the majority of laps

When cheap enough we'll see 3,704 lb E92s at the track... being creamed by Corvettes.

I became a believer in purpose vehicles. I wasn't a believer before buying this car and starting to take lessons on a track. I strongly believe now that a used Jetta TDI is all anybody with heavy foot will ever need in normal traffic in US. That's 15 grand for a vehicle that has at least 200k miles left for commuting.

For a weekend/track days, there are so many choices nowadays that $50,000 (difference to new lightly optioned M3 price) offers a huge range of choices. I also happen to think that, if you don't race wheel to to wheel, Miata has more power than most of us will ever need considering weekend/track car. That's for road courses, of course, people drag racing their cars will have different needs. Nothing wrong with that, I just don't do drag racing (or attempts to it on public roads). No, road course driving is not superior, I would probably crash high power car in a straight line immediately after the start if I wanted to keep up with other car driven by seasoned drag race driver - something I would not do on a corner exit with the same car. Different skills.

So where does that leave an M3? In Germany, where it belongs. Together with 328i, 335i and 335is. If you don't like what I just said, please write to your Congressperson - which will be much more effective to resolve the real issue instead of attacking annonymous dude on the Internets.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Bimmer App

Mark K...Way to empty the locker,like it!!

Originally Posted by Mark K

I became a believer in purpose vehicles. I wasn't a believer before buying this car and starting to take lessons on a track. I strongly believe now that a used Jetta TDI is all anybody with heavy foot will ever need in normal traffic in US. That's 15 grand for a vehicle that has at least 200k miles left for commuting.

For a weekend/track days, there are so many choices nowadays that $50,000 (difference to new lightly optioned M3 price) offers a huge range of choices. I also happen to think that, if you don't race wheel to to wheel, Miata has more power than most of us will ever need considering weekend/track car. That's for road courses, of course, people drag racing their cars will have different needs. Nothing wrong with that, I just don't do drag racing (or attempts to it on public roads). No, road course driving is not superior, I would probably crash high power car in a straight line immediately after the start if I wanted to keep up with other car driven by seasoned drag race driver - something I would not do on a corner exit with the same car. Different skills.

So where does that leave an M3? In Germany, where it belongs. Together with 328i, 335i and 335is. If you don't like what I just said, please write to your Congressperson - which will be much more effective to resolve the real issue instead of attacking annonymous dude on the Internets.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Bimmer App

This is Lime Rock Drivers Club coach Jonathan Goring in a Spec Miata
His lap time is faster than nobody but another driver of his level would get in an M3.





This video is of a Spec Miata race.

NB: 335is drivers say that they can make their car faster than an M3 by modding it...but M3 drivers aren't saying that they can make their car as fast as a chipped 335is by modding it....hmmm, why is that then?

Originally Posted by ///M-ratedE90

NB: 335is drivers say that they can make their car faster than an M3 by modding it...but M3 drivers aren't saying that they can make their car as fast as a chipped 335is by modding it....hmmm, why is that then?

Most likely because a 335is "chip" cost under $500 while to mod an M3 to the same level takes a $10,000 supercharger.

I don't really think that the issue is whether a 335is will perform as well as an M3. The question is whether the superior performance of an M3 is something that would be taken advantage of and whether the 335is is better suited to the way the car will be used.

CA

Originally Posted by bear-avhistory

Most likely because a 335is "chip" cost under $500 while to mod an M3 to the same level takes a $10,000 supercharger.

M3 status win.

I think this concludes the discussion.



(read the print on the watch face for full effect)

Originally Posted by ///M-ratedE90

M3 status win.

I think this concludes the discussion.



(read the print on the watch face for full effect)

Big deal. Anyone can buy a Rolex. If that one is yours and it was not awarded to you for a podium finish in the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona I am not impressed.

CA

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Big deal. Anyone can buy a Rolex. If that one is yours and it was not awarded to you for a podium finish in the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona I am not impressed.

CA

That's a vintage Rolex. When did the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona race start?

Originally Posted by captainaudio

Big deal. Anyone can buy a Rolex. If that one is yours and it was not awarded to you for a podium finish in the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona I am not impressed.

CA

I bought it from a guy in New Hampshire. I think he is in NJ now. He said he gets them cheap from Singapore.
I can send contact details.

Originally Posted by captainaudio

I don't really think that the issue is whether a 335is will perform as well as an M3. The question is whether the superior performance of an M3 is something that would be taken advantage of and whether the 335is is better suited to the way the car will be used.

CA

This is a very sensible statement!

Originally Posted by beden1

That's a vintage Rolex. When did the Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona race start?

Actually the watch that is awarded for winning the 24 Hours of Daytona is an (drum roll) 18k Rolex Daytona!

The Rolex Daytona Cosmograph is quite certain one of the most iconic watch models ever designed and manufactured by Rolex. This handsome watch was designed and named after the Daytona Speedway race in the 1960's, which Rolex continues to sponsor each year. The Daytona Rolex is available in stanless steel, 18k and stainless, and 18k solid gold ( rose gold, yellow gold, or white gold ). The watch was made famous by actor Paul Newman who was frequently seen at races sporting his stainless steel Rolex Daytona. to mint condition and come with a one year warranty.

Originally Posted by ///M-ratedE90

I bought it from a guy in New Hampshire. I think he is in NJ now. He said he gets them cheap from Singapore.
I can send contact details.

Can he get me a Rolex President ///Mount Washington?

I have heard they are very hard to come by.

CA