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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #76  
Old 12-04-2012, 10:49 AM
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Most likely because a 335is "chip" cost under $500 while to mod an M3 to the same level takes a $10,000 supercharger.
Chipped 335is: 340rwhp.

Supercharged M3: 500 - 620rwhp, depending on kit.
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  #77  
Old 12-04-2012, 02:07 PM
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$500 chipped 335is dyno tested @ 375whp + 414wftlbs. Chipped with $1700-2000 worth of bolt-ons 450whp + 495wftlb = 11.1 second X 127mph quarter mile. That puts it as #6 on the Drag Times M3 list ahead of 30+ M3's with superchargers & 90+ without superchargers.
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  #78  
Old 12-04-2012, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
$500 chipped 335is dyno tested @ 375whp + 414wftlbs. Chipped with $1700-2000 worth of bolt-ons 450whp + 495wftlb = 11.1 second X 127mph quarter mile. That puts it as #6 on the Drag Times M3 list ahead of 30+ M3's with superchargers & 90+ without superchargers.
Would any of those time slips have been sent in by you?
(Can you get an 11.1 with non-LSD? If not, that raises the ante a little doesn't it?)

Last edited by DSXMachina; 12-04-2012 at 02:27 PM.
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  #79  
Old 12-04-2012, 02:58 PM
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Yes one is mine @ 12.583 ET X 114.529 mph. Hot Rod 182 with a FBO JB4 1/4 Mile ET: 11.111 1/4 Mile MPH: 129.470 stock differential & suspension. Backed up with 11.128 X 129.430 & 11.339 X 132.778

EDIT: I just remembered that Hot Rod 182 also drove Terry's development 135 to a then no-N2O record also in the 11.1 11.2 range, slightly slower then the 335i, & the 135i has a Quaife Differential. So I guess the debate will go on as to the importance or lack there of for the LSD on this platform in the 1/4 mile. It would seem they are a lot more important on a road course that the M3 specializes in.
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  #80  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:07 PM
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  #81  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:51 PM
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Mark K...Way to empty the locker,like it!!
Thanks. Unfortunately, as much as it might have sounded like a rant, it is also very close to 100% true. Very unfortunately.
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  #82  
Old 12-04-2012, 03:56 PM
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This is Lime Rock Drivers Club coach Jonathan Goring in a Spec Miata
His lap time is faster than nobody but another driver of his level would get in an M3.
CA, I wasn't diminishing or trashing Miata, I just meant that, for most of us here, it is more of a car then we might ever need for track/weekend duty. I was also imprecise in stating "wheel-to-wheel racing" - I meant that mods and more horsepower (where and when allowed by the specs) are only important if you need to win, not to fool around and have fun on a track. Which happens only when effectively racing - and as far as I know, I haven't seen an active race driver participating here. I could be wrong.
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  #83  
Old 12-04-2012, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
$500 chipped 335is dyno tested @ 375whp + 414wftlbs. Chipped with $1700-2000 worth of bolt-ons 450whp + 495wftlb = 11.1 second X 127mph quarter mile. That puts it as #6 on the Drag Times M3 list ahead of 30+ M3's with superchargers & 90+ without superchargers.
You've got way more than just a chip to be cranking out 400hp+ at the crank, even factoring in the OB.
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  #84  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:34 PM
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My car was dynoed at 375whp with the original JB4 running Map 2 & 94.5 octane gas (93/100 mix) & nothing else. Its not very special or unusual, very middle of the pack. It has been since upgraded to the JB4 G5/ISO + FMIC with a custom 335IS map as part of the alpha & beta test of the new JB4G5. Other N54 cars running the JB4 G5/ISO with 50/50 93/E85 are dynoing near or at 400whp with the E85 maps. Light bolt-ons CAI @ $95 & Downpipes @ $379 are putting them nicely into the 400+whp range on an E85 mix.

You might want to check out http://www.n54tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3 & http://www.bimmerboost.com/forumdisplay.php?39-N54 which specialize in N-54 performance issues. Pretty much all the guys running 11 second N54's are active in these two forums along with guys like me who are just adding a little bit over stock with very light mods.

When talking about light mods the thing you need to think about is that the N54 takes to additional boost with great output. The stock N54 will dyno @ 270/275WHP with its 8PSI. The pure stock 335IS dynos @ 319whp (my cars dyno) on 10-12psi. The 375whp was generated @ 14.5/15psi & I now run with the newG5/ISO's 335is maps @ 17psi with a 19psi fail safe. The high output single turbo 642whp N54's are running 21psi all on the stock bottom ends. None of these motors has been opened up & are all running stock blocks, internals & heads. The logs show steady boost, good AFR's & no pulling of ignition advance.

The N54 development reminds me a lot of the Chey small block evolution.
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  #85  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
My car was dynoed at 375whp with the original JB4 running Map 2 & 94.5 octane gas (93/100 mix) & nothing else. Its not very special or unusual, very middle of the pack. It has been since upgraded to the JB4 G5/ISO + FMIC with a custom 335IS map as part of the alpha & beta test of the new JB4G5. Other N54 cars running the JB4 G5/ISO with 50/50 93/E85 are dynoing near or at 400whp with the E85 maps. Light bolt-ons CAI @ $95 & Downpipes @ $379 are putting them nicely into the 400+whp range on an E85 mix.

You might want to check out http://www.n54tech.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3 & http://www.bimmerboost.com/forumdisplay.php?39-N54 which specialize in N-54 performance issues. Pretty much all the guys running 11 second N54's are active in these two forums along with guys like me who are just adding a little bit over stock with very light mods.

When talking about light mods the thing you need to think about is that the N54 takes to additional boost with great output. The stock N54 will dyno @ 270/275WHP with its 8PSI. The pure stock 335IS dynos @ 319whp (my cars dyno) on 10-12psi. The 375whp was generated @ 14.5/15psi & I now run with the newG5/ISO's 335is maps @ 17psi with a 19psi fail safe. The high output single turbo 642whp N54's are running 21psi all on the stock bottom ends. None of these motors has been opened up & are all running stock blocks, internals & heads. The logs show steady boost, good AFR's & no pulling of ignition advance.

The N54 development reminds me a lot of the Chey small block evolution.
Stock rods, cast pistons? I never would have thought it possible! The crank, no problem, lots of fat mains.
Many years ago I'd port and polish all week to get another few cfm, now you add a psi to the boost and you get another hundred cfm. No fair!
There was a time I would have lived in the fanatics forums, but I'm older and wiser now, and have better things to spend my money on. Still...one gets...interested.

PS I used to be very much into Saab performance. Getting 400/400 out of the turbo 4's was no problem 10 years ago! Making the car turn a corner was another story. Who says FWD isn't prone to wicked understeer?
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  #86  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:38 PM
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I bought it from a guy in New Hampshire. I think he is in NJ now. He said he gets them cheap from Singapore.
I can send contact details.
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Can he get me a Rolex President ///Mount Washington?

I have heard they are very hard to come by.

CA
Hmmm...I have one I can let go at a very fair price. Either that or I'm regifting it at the appropriate occasion!
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  #87  
Old 12-04-2012, 07:45 PM
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M3.

Neither of the options here would define one as being "practical." So again, if you'll make a fiscally irresponsible decision, don't stop at the "almost M3" level and just get the real deal.

Else buy a Honda and close this tread!

P.S. I drive a stock 328 and can barely enjoy its capabilities on public roads. So this whole notion that the M3 should be tracked or not purchased is a pure non-sense. I can barely tell when i'm north of 80MPH so we can't enjoy any of our cars on public roads...in the US anyway...
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  #88  
Old 12-04-2012, 10:50 PM
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Stock rods, cast pistons? I never would have thought it possible! The crank, no problem, lots of fat mains.
That's the thing I'm still having a problem wrapping my head around. The the stock twin-scroll cranking out 17psi, sure. Absurd, in my mind, but sure. Stock internals? How many runs can you pull off before you're blowing chunks?
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  #89  
Old 12-05-2012, 06:32 AM
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The 640+whp 335i has 80k+ miles on it & is a developers car with at least 1000 runs on it. They do both 1/4 mile, 40/130 & 1/2 mile airport 170mph runs. There is a YouTube of some track testing where they did about 50 runs the same day as well as the airport runs. I think if you search the forums I suggested you will not find any boosted N54's that scattered themselves all over a track; also you will get a good feel for the N54's capability.

Both of Terry's development cars, also 1/4mile, 40/130 & 1/2 mile airport 160mph runs are high mileage with no internal updates or repairs. The weak point on the 135i/335i is the auto trans which starts to have a hard time holding torque 5th gear in 550whp cars. No problems with the MT's although many have gone to high performance clutches.

BTW the log above is my car & the boost line shows 17psi & 17+psi from about 3200rpm up to about 5700rpm. At the track I start in 2nd gear & shift at 6250 (JB4 gives me shift point lights). First gear is too strong for the tires even with the 1st gear boost trimmed to 10psi. You can reduce boost in 1st & 2nd gear outside of the regular boost curve.

YouTube is Terry's 135i development car running a tie, even though the Merc jumped the start, with a Bi-Turbo E63 AMG with a tuned ECU.

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  #90  
Old 12-05-2012, 08:42 AM
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A lot of the chipped N54's I see at the track aren't scattered around the track, but they are cooling off in the pits, waiting for the ECU to let you go play for another 5-10 minutes.

[Also, let's not confuse holding the wheel straight and pressing your right foot down for 10-12 seconds on a straight road with going to "the track"]
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  #91  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
CA, I wasn't diminishing or trashing Miata, I just meant that, for most of us here, it is more of a car then we might ever need for track/weekend duty. I was also imprecise in stating "wheel-to-wheel racing" - I meant that mods and more horsepower (where and when allowed by the specs) are only important if you need to win, not to fool around and have fun on a track. Which happens only when effectively racing - and as far as I know, I haven't seen an active race driver participating here. I could be wrong.
I posted those videos because I agree with you. You are much better off spending on driver instruction than on modding the car,

CA
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  #92  
Old 12-05-2012, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by ///M-ratedE90 View Post
A lot of the chipped N54's I see at the track aren't scattered around the track, but they are cooling off in the pits, waiting for the ECU to let you go play for another 5-10 minutes.

[Also, let's not confuse holding the wheel straight and pressing your right foot down for 10-12 seconds on a straight road with going to "the track"]
I got both my SCCA & NHRA licenses in the 1960's & have a pretty good idea how to get around a road course. My favorite from those days was my Morgan +4. Was very tuff on a tight course. Also ran a B production Corvette & a few TR-3's.

I think I said the M3 specializes on a road course when compared to the 335i/is which are street packages. A casual 335/135 driver could always add better cooling if they were having limp mode problems, but it would also need suspension mods to be competitive. Not really worth it IMHO. If I was still into active track day events a late model BMW would not even be on my list as something to get.

Interesting how the M3 fans bring that up a lot but never bring up how a Mustang Boss track package can kick their butts on a road course. Lightning Laps @ VIR Mustang Boss 3:02.8 seconds M3 3:05.4 & 3:05.6 seconds. One M3 guy who I thumped a few times in a row made that very comment & I told him if I was not at VIR next weekend to start without me.

Thing is, very few M3 people actually go to track days more then once or twice a year, if ever, but drive their cars every day in what is a target rich environment for a chipped car.
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  #93  
Old 12-05-2012, 12:19 PM
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  #94  
Old 12-05-2012, 12:23 PM
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It sounds like the OP should get a Mustang Boss then? So when he becomes a professional driver, he will be faster around a track...?
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  #95  
Old 12-05-2012, 12:37 PM
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"My colleague James May recently bought a really fast car. It's a Ferrari 458 Italia and with a fair wind it will zoom along at 200mph. But he will never drive it anything like thats peed. Ever. And even if he did take it to ten-tenths on a track - unlikely, I know - he'd still get overtaken by a GT-R. You buy a Ferrari because you think it makes you look interesting, rich and attractive. You buy one because you like the feel of the thing, or the styling, or the cut of the salesman's jib. You buy one so, at night, when it's dark and you're feeling worthless, you can say to yourself, "But I have a Ferrari." And you will feel better. I know. I've been there." -J. Clarkson
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  #96  
Old 12-05-2012, 02:50 PM
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It sounds like the OP should get a Mustang Boss then? So when he becomes a professional driver, he will be faster around a track...?
All the reviews have said its a very easy car to drive fast so I am not sure what you point is? I guess the good news is in a straight line they are both equal @ 12.7 X 114mph.
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  #97  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:28 PM
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That's my point.
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  #98  
Old 12-05-2012, 04:49 PM
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One more time the Boss is rated as a very easy car to drive fast & is a good track day car, so I still don't understand the pro driver reference.
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  #99  
Old 12-06-2012, 04:38 AM
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I know. Don't worry about it.

Give any driver on this board a ride in a 335is, M3 or Mustang Boss for a couple of twenty minute sessions, they would be lapping the cars in about the same time at the end of the session...and definitely about the same average time. (I wouldn't say this on M3Post as Leh Keen posts there) These times will vary from person to person based on their experience, skill and courage. It will take a pro driver to drive the cars at the level where the differences in their performance, in this case 2 seconds in ~2minutes, or 1.7% will be demonstrated. Also, the pro driver in a Miata will beat every one of these cars driven by an amateur, including the experienced ones. The ultimate ability and performance of each of these cars is so far beyond the average driver, that the differentiation based on performance is moot.

Thus, in true Bimmerfest style, the OP asks for a comparison of 2 things and receives endorsement for an option not given... A Ford Boss 302.
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  #100  
Old 12-06-2012, 05:18 AM
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Mein Auto: 335i E92 TiAg 6MT ED
Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M-ratedE90 View Post
I know. Don't worry about it.

Give any driver on this board a ride in a 335is, M3 or Mustang Boss for a couple of twenty minute sessions, they would be lapping the cars in about the same time at the end of the session...and definitely about the same average time. (I wouldn't say this on M3Post as Leh Keen posts there) These times will vary from person to person based on their experience, skill and courage. It will take a pro driver to drive the cars at the level where the differences in their performance, in this case 2 seconds in ~2minutes, or 1.7% will be demonstrated. Also, the pro driver in a Miata will beat every one of these cars driven by an amateur, including the experienced ones. The ultimate ability and performance of each of these cars is so far beyond the average driver, that the differentiation based on performance is moot.

Thus, in true Bimmerfest style, the OP asks for a comparison of 2 things and receives endorsement for an option not given... A Ford Boss 302.
LOL, how true.
Isn't it time for "A Child's Christmas in Wales"? That always cheers you up! Here's the version where you looked so handsome in your little conductor's outfit.

Last edited by DSXMachina; 12-06-2012 at 05:24 AM.
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