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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 02-03-2012, 02:10 PM
Blkthght Blkthght is offline
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Anyone purchase their vehicle and upon hindsight wished they had leased?

Or vice versa? I understand that this is probably an awkward question, but I'm hoping that current owners who may have something to say about this will share their thoughts. I'm at that stage where I'm about to order the 550i msport (euro delivery) and I am agonizing over whether to buy or lease. I have done all the research and run all of the numbers and I am leaning toward leasing. I have found that it really does come down to how long one intends to keep the vehicle, and to how much of a premium one places on the option to buy at the end of the lease term.

I apologize in advance if this topic isn't for this forum, but i figured since I was posing a general question and not asking about any particular aspect of the ordering process, that this is the appropriate forum. Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 02-03-2012, 02:24 PM
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There is a really good thread over on the F30 Forum that has lots of pros and cons of leasing vs buying:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=596309

I'm in the pay cash camp but there are many valid reasons to lease depending on your individual circumstances.

I will say it complexes the deal (in the dealers favor) so being armed with knowledge which can be gained form this board is priceless!
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  #3  
Old 02-03-2012, 02:37 PM
Blkthght Blkthght is offline
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@Laser,

You're right, that is a great thread. Thanks for the advice.
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  #4  
Old 02-03-2012, 02:54 PM
Crmgr Crmgr is offline
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I think a lot depends on where you are life. I personally like to drive a new car, but because I'm still working it means I put on around 15,000 miles a year, along with the wear and tear that goes with a lot of highway miles. Leasing make sense to me. When I retire, the mileage and wear and tear should be lower, so I'll probably buy. It may also make more sense for younger owners with kids to go with the lower lease payment rather than either a higher loan payment or paying cash.
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  #5  
Old 02-03-2012, 03:26 PM
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27,000 mi and 15 mos later im glad i purchased.
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  #6  
Old 02-03-2012, 03:34 PM
nhs156 nhs156 is offline
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I have never understood leasing - seems like an overpriced way of renting to me. If I couldn't afford to buy the car I wanted outright, or the monthly payments where I financed, I'd get a cheaper car. But paying someone large sums to rent a car they own doesn't sit well with me.
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2012, 03:51 PM
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Leasing is a great option if you have a business. It's much less expensive than buying if you can write it off.

It is also less risky (do not put down payment except MSDs) just in case if you're involved in accident or get a lemon car.

I bought my previous car had it for 7 yrs. Someone hit me from behind and got into record. I had to lower my car value by 10% when selling because of the record.
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  #8  
Old 02-03-2012, 04:18 PM
jsclarke jsclarke is offline
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Vote 1 for lease

I'm a big fan of leasing, even though I can't deduct any part of a car lease. This is my 3rd lease, and I don't think I'll ever go back.

First, you can think of a lease as a purchase with a "put option". At any time, I can buy the car for the sum of the remaining lease payments plus the residual. My lease interest rate equates to 3.26%- the rest of my payment is negotiated price less the residual divided by 36 payments. So apart from paying ~ 3% interest for 3 years, there would be do difference from me buying out my lease and buying new.

BUT... (3 Buts actually)...

1. I don't have to keep the car if I don't want to. If my car consumes oil (like my last owned 5 did but was within spec), I can give it back. Something better comes along, I get it instead. I have a put option- in 3 years I can walk.

2. If I bought, I'd pay sales tax on the full price of the car. By leasing I pay tax on the amount it depreciates (actually the lease payment which is almost all depreciation). So, my case, MSRP = $57.5k, negotiated price = ~ $51k, tax (CA) would be $3,950. The sum of tax on my lease payments is half that, at $1,818.

3. I think life's short and there are so many nice BMWs to drive- I've averaged a different car every 3 years (for the last 30 years!). But selling private party is a time consuming, potentially unsafe, hassle. And trade in values? They're a joke. With a lease, you negotiate the purchase price, AND the disposition price at the same time. It's really pretty good...

John
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  #9  
Old 02-03-2012, 05:18 PM
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dunderhi dunderhi is online now
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Whether I lease or buy depends on what I want do with the car, how long I want to keep the car, and the overall cost of ownership. I run the numbers numerous ways before deciding which way to go. Since I wanted to mod my F10, buying was the only option for this car.
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  #10  
Old 02-03-2012, 06:00 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhs156 View Post
I have never understood leasing - seems like an overpriced way of renting to me. If I couldn't afford to buy the car I wanted outright, or the monthly payments where I financed, I'd get a cheaper car. But paying someone large sums to rent a car they own doesn't sit well with me.
Regardless of how you choose to finance your car, your single greatest cost is depreciation and that particular cost impacts lessees and buyers alike. Paying someone a large sum for what is after all a depreciating asset doesn't sit well with many customers. Ultimately, there are times when it make sense to lease and times when it makes sense to buy. With close to free money and BMWFS subventing residuals, leasing can be a great option even if you have the cash ready to go. Either way, you flushed just as much cash down the crapper as anyone who leased at the same time that you bought
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  #11  
Old 02-03-2012, 08:55 PM
Detrick Detrick is offline
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BMW's are sophisticated cars and quite cutting edge in terms of delivering new innovations. My N54 had issues with the fuel pump, injectors and water pump. I also had two bent rims and had to replace two run flat tires. I am glad everything was changed under recalls, warranty or additional insurance that I purchased. That said, I would never want to own a BMW in the long term due to these issues. It would be very costly.

I made the mistake of financing my N54 with the intentions of keeping it 10-years. Realizing all of the aforementioned problems, plus the eventual costly carbon build-up cleaning on back of the injectors due to the direct injection design, plus wastegate problems, and having twin turbos adding to the complexity of the engine, I decided to lease my N63.

I rather pay for the rest of my life each month to own a new BMW, then return it after 3-years, and get another brand new one with the latest body style and features. To me, that is enjoyment and complete peace of mind.
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  #12  
Old 02-04-2012, 05:37 AM
Munich77 Munich77 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detrick View Post
BMW's are sophisticated cars and quite cutting edge in terms of delivering new innovations. My N54 had issues with the fuel pump, injectors and water pump. I also had two bent rims and had to replace two run flat tires. I am glad everything was changed under recalls, warranty or additional insurance that I purchased. That said, I would never want to own a BMW in the long term due to these issues. It would be very costly.

I made the mistake of financing my N54 with the intentions of keeping it 10-years. Realizing all of the aforementioned problems, plus the eventual costly carbon build-up cleaning on back of the injectors due to the direct injection design, plus wastegate problems, and having twin turbos adding to the complexity of the engine, I decided to lease my N63.

I rather pay for the rest of my life each month to own a new BMW, then return it after 3-years, and get another brand new one with the latest body style and features. To me, that is enjoyment and complete peace of mind.
That is how I feel too about my N54 - I wish I had leased it - that way I could have seen how reliable the car is during the lease and bought it after the lease if the car proved reliable.
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  #13  
Old 02-04-2012, 05:45 AM
sdg1871 sdg1871 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detrick View Post
BMW's are sophisticated cars and quite cutting edge in terms of delivering new innovations. My N54 had issues with the fuel pump, injectors and water pump. I also had two bent rims and had to replace two run flat tires. I am glad everything was changed under recalls, warranty or additional insurance that I purchased. That said, I would never want to own a BMW in the long term due to these issues.

I rather pay for the rest of my life each month to own a new BMW, then return it after 3-years, and get another brand new one with the latest body style and features. To me, that is enjoyment and complete peace of mind.
My thoughts exactly. I would never want to own a BMW especially one outside of the warranty. I at least two of them and I'm about to a lease a third. people I know who bought and kept the car into high miles have regretted it profoundly due to the insanely high cost of fixing a BMW.
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  #14  
Old 02-04-2012, 06:39 AM
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jagu jagu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Detrick View Post
BMW's are sophisticated cars and quite cutting edge in terms of delivering new innovations. My N54 had issues with the fuel pump, injectors and water pump. I also had two bent rims and had to replace two run flat tires. I am glad everything was changed under recalls, warranty or additional insurance that I purchased. That said, I would never want to own a BMW in the long term due to these issues. It would be very costly.

I made the mistake of financing my N54 with the intentions of keeping it 10-years. Realizing all of the aforementioned problems, plus the eventual costly carbon build-up cleaning on back of the injectors due to the direct injection design, plus wastegate problems, and having twin turbos adding to the complexity of the engine, I decided to lease my N63.

I rather pay for the rest of my life each month to own a new BMW, then return it after 3-years, and get another brand new one with the latest body style and features. To me, that is enjoyment and complete peace of mind.
I Agee. After buying 6 BMWs I should have leased all along. I feel better about driving a BMW without worrying about it. When I'm ready to buy a car , I'll buy a Lexus.
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  #15  
Old 02-04-2012, 07:47 AM
sdg1871 sdg1871 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jagu View Post
I Agee. After buying 6 BMWs I should have leased all along. I feel better about driving a BMW without worrying about it. When I'm ready to buy a car , I'll buy a Lexus.
Exactly. In my opinion a luxury car is not an asset but is a depreciating liability. I use my cars in the prime years of their life drive them like hell and get rid of them before they're old and start breaking down.

I always am confounded by friends of mine who confuse a car with a house. A car's value (unless it is some super rare, super expensive collectors item is only going one direction: down down down. I buy my Manhattan apartments (because they gain value) -- not my cars.
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  #16  
Old 02-04-2012, 08:32 AM
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hd750Li hd750Li is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsclarke View Post
2. If I bought, I'd pay sales tax on the full price of the car. By leasing I pay tax on the amount it depreciates (actually the lease payment which is almost all depreciation). So, my case, MSRP = $57.5k, negotiated price = ~ $51k, tax (CA) would be $3,950. The sum of tax on my lease payments is half that, at $1,818.
John
One note for those who live in Arkansas, Maryland, Minnesota, Texas and Virginia, leasing is a little bit more expensive because those states charge sales tax on the entire sale price. For my 7, the difference is $1,058.55 in TX vs $929.43 if I had leased my car in CA.
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  #17  
Old 02-04-2012, 03:13 PM
terp97 terp97 is offline
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Lease.
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  #18  
Old 02-04-2012, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdg1871 View Post
Exactly. In my opinion a luxury car is not an asset but is a depreciating liability. I use my cars in the prime years of their life drive them like hell and get rid of them before they're old and start breaking down.

I always am confounded by friends of mine who confuse a car with a house. A car's value (unless it is some super rare, super expensive collectors item is only going one direction: down down down. I buy my Manhattan apartments (because they gain value) -- not my cars.
I think we can all agree that a car is an expense.

Like a vacation is an expense, you wouldn't want to finance or lease a vacation would you?

You pay expenses as you go.

Another way to look at it is leasing or financing adds a third party to the transaction. Buyer, seller, lender.

Look around the table, if you can't tell who is the patsy ........ you are the patsy.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:14 PM
jsclarke jsclarke is offline
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Following the vacation analogy ... Do you buy the hotel and the airplane that got you to it , or just pay for what you used?

No need to buy 100% of a car when you're only going to use 1/3 of it. Just pay for what you use. John
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by laser View Post
I think we can all agree that a car is an expense.

Like a vacation is an expense, you wouldn't want to finance or lease a vacation would you?

You pay expenses as you go.

Another way to look at it is leasing or financing adds a third party to the transaction. Buyer, seller, lender.

Look around the table, if you can't tell who is the patsy ........ you are the patsy.
Well, in a cash deal, there's you, the dealer, the manufacturer and their suppliers, the Government and the shipping company. Everybody will want their cut too.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:23 PM
sdg1871 sdg1871 is offline
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Bottom line is it leasing can be an excellent option if and only if you as the customer understand the component parts of the lease and how they work and if you do your research prior to negotiating with the dealer.

If you know nothing about leasing it is an incredibly great opportunity for the dealer to take advantage of you. There are some wonderful websites that can arm a customer with what they need to negotiate a good lease. Edmunds.com has invoice pricing and ridewithG has lease money factors and residuals. And there are many excellent lease calculators which will help you to calculate the monthly price based on the component parts of the lease.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:30 PM
nhs156 nhs156 is offline
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I can't believe how many of you lease - what a phenominal waste of money. I suppose if you only intend on keeping the car for a short while you might as well rent, but over the long haul that becomes an incredibly expensive proposition - from a net cash outflow perspective (as a rule). Financials aside, I like knowing that the car I drive is actually "my" car, not one I'm borrowing. Not hammering leasing - but it just wouldn't make financial or emotional sense to me; I don't intend to change out cars every couple of years...
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:32 PM
sdg1871 sdg1871 is offline
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Originally Posted by nhs156 View Post
I can't believe how many of you lease - what a phenominal waste of money. I suppose if you only intend on keeping the car for a short while you might as well rent, but over the long haul that becomes an incredibly expensive proposition - from a net cash outflow perspective (as a rule). Financials aside, I like knowing that the car I drive is actually "my" car, not one I'm borrowing. Not hammering leasing - but it just wouldn't make financial or emotional sense to me; I don't intend to change out cars every couple of years...
If you are like me and want a new car within the warranty at all times then leasing makes sense. If you like keeping your car until the wheels fall off then buying is the best choice.
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  #24  
Old 02-04-2012, 05:34 PM
nhs156 nhs156 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsclarke View Post
Following the vacation analogy ... Do you buy the hotel and the airplane that got you to it , or just pay for what you used?

No need to buy 100% of a car when you're only going to use 1/3 of it. Just pay for what you use. John
Well, by that logic you should never buy a house... and would probably be better off renting your clothes and any other personal belongings you don't take to the grave.
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Old 02-04-2012, 05:37 PM
jsclarke jsclarke is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhs156 View Post
I can't believe how many of you lease - what a phenominal waste of money. I suppose if you only intend on keeping the car for a short while you might as well rent, but over the long haul that becomes an incredibly expensive proposition - from a net cash outflow perspective (as a rule). Financials aside, I like knowing that the car I drive is actually "my" car, not one I'm borrowing. Not hammering leasing - but it just wouldn't make financial or emotional sense to me; I don't intend to change out cars every couple of years...
But except for cash buyers- I "own" my car as well. At any time I can pay $x and it's mine (where x is summation of remaining lease payments + residual). It's all a frame of mind.

You know, as in the song, life itself "is for rent"...??

main thing of course is, lease or buy, we all have good taste (in cars) and have great cars. John
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