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X3 F25 (2011 - current)
The latest X3 brings some added style and some new features to the BMW SUV family. Talk about the new F25 now!

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  #1  
Old 12-01-2012, 10:02 PM
glennk glennk is offline
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X3 xDrive28i vs xDrive35i

I test drove the X3 earlier today and was fully impressed. Never thought I'd be interested in a true SUV (SAV)! So, here comes the pesky questions:

1. I've looked at the government fuel economy ratings between the two engines (21/28 vs 19/26), but they are usually far off from reality. Are they closer in economy in the real world?

2. Did you purchase the x28 model and regret not getting the x35?

3. Dealer is telling me if I get my order in this week, that they can get it from the factory by end of year. Sound right?

4. Dealer is saying I should be willing to pay the average rate from TrueCar. Seems a bit high and don't really want to go much over $800 over invoice. Plus, I've got discounts coming in from military and holiday discounts.

5. With #4 said, I have a trade in. Trying to balance out everything to get the best offer. Recommendations?

6. I've heard of hiring folks online to manage the entire car buying process for a fee. Thoughts?

Thx!
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2012, 11:02 PM
rambos rambos is offline
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Just ordered 28i. Mileage varies by driving habits. Test drove both 28i and 35i and found minimum difference between both models. The advantage of 60hp and 40 torque difference will kick in at very high rpm. Again it is only my personal opinion. Try test driving both models without identifying them. I have no regrets buying 28i. As for delivery times, my order that was placed one week ago on Nov 25th will complete production on Monday, Dec 3rd and I am expecting the car within a week from Monday. My dealer said they have been getting the delivery in 11-12 days from the order. For trade-in, do ot bring the trade-n until the sales terms are finalized and not yet signed. This way dealer cannot mixup the sales discount and trade-in value to confuse you. Any time you bring a middleman, you and the dealer both are losing money. Instead submit an offer to multiple dealers and go with the best offer.
Good luck.
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2012, 03:21 AM
nhman nhman is offline
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My wife and I have been looking at a replacement car for her and took the X3 for an extensive test drive yesterday. However I have had several BMW's and will provide my input to your questions (below).

Quote:
Originally Posted by glennk View Post
I test drove the X3 earlier today and was fully impressed. Never thought I'd be interested in a true SUV (SAV)! So, here comes the pesky questions:

1. I've looked at the government fuel economy ratings between the two engines (21/28 vs 19/26), but they are usually far off from reality. Are they closer in economy in the real world? .....Agree with the previous poster, it will vary depending on driving habits and conditions. I have read from others where they were getting low 30's for highway driving.

2. Did you purchase the x28 model and regret not getting the x35? ....We only test drove the x28i but I have experience with the x35i in other models. If I was the primary driver, without question I would opt for the x35i. However I love power and acceleration. For most uses the x28 would be a good choice.

3. Dealer is telling me if I get my order in this week, that they can get it from the factory by end of year. Sound right? .....This statement echos what my CA told me. However our timeline is to have the X3 by early April. Point being, there doesn't seem to be any lag with production and shipment.

4. Dealer is saying I should be willing to pay the average rate from TrueCar. Seems a bit high and don't really want to go much over $800 over invoice. Plus, I've got discounts coming in from military and holiday discounts....A range of $500-$800 over invoice minus any incentives, IMO, would be reasonable. It is not a new release or the hottest SUV/SAV on the market. Be professional and respectful during the negotiations but hold your ground.

5. With #4 said, I have a trade in. Trying to balance out everything to get the best offer. Recommendations?....Agree with the previous poster, keep the number separate (new vs. trade-in). Research ahead to get an average number by looking up the value from KBB and Edmunds.

6. I've heard of hiring folks online to manage the entire car buying process for a fee. Thoughts?....Don't bother as the broker would receive a commission. Simply be well informed and confident in your approach. I would also recommend contacting one of the forum sponsors as thee would give you an honest (if not the best) price.

Thx!
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  #4  
Old 12-02-2012, 04:39 AM
glennk glennk is offline
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Frantastic! Thanks for the quick (and awesome) responses. I'm currently driving a GTI 6-speed with the APR Stage 1 upgrade. Something tells me to get the turbo 6 to keep parity with the GTI, but my rational (and cheap side) says to get the 4. Decisions decisions! Don't want buyers remorse...
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2012, 05:15 AM
x3brian x3brian is offline
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The selection of the 28 versus 35 should also consider how you drive.

Do you do mostly city driving? If so I would go for the 35. Far more fun and you don't have to hear the pesky diesel chatter of the n20 turbo 4...I don't... but some find it loud and annoying at stop lights.

If you do hwy like me 90% of the time go with the 28. Gas milage is very good. I have gotten as high as 38 in f30 and 32 in f25 loaner cars on my daily all fwy no traffic 120 mile rt commute.

As for purchase how are you at negotiating? I love that part and confidence rules, just remember the BMW buying experience isn't the same as with Chrysler or GM. You will be treated with respect. If not walk.

Here are my rules for buying;

1) always be closing...meaning be confident about you offer, calculator in hand, know your options in advance and always have end game in sight

2) focus on final purchase price of $500 over invoice. Never get bogged down in payments. Always stop the sales person and remind them that heck you might pay cash.

3) if necessary only give them one chance to talk to boss and tell them next time you talk to boss.

4) always negates price, loan and trade in separately! This is key!

5) never purchase what the loan/paper work guy is trying to sell you! No...the wheel and tire insurance is not worth it!

6) car is made in Spartanburg, NC. Yes end of year is feasible.
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2012, 07:32 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Good stuff -- it is important of course to negotiate the price and trade in as two seperate transactions. Treat it like you are "selling" your GTI to them -- which of course is what you are doing. Good luck -- and over too many years of buying and selling cars and trucks I have not found one bit of difference between any car brand -- domestic or foreign -- sales process, some are easy and some you just walk away from. It all depends on the particular dealer, the salesperson (and that is what they are -- sales persons) and what the sales manager will let them get away with. Oh yes, I never let them keep me sitting while the sales person "runs this by the boss". My numbers are all firm before I go in there.
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  #7  
Old 12-03-2012, 01:58 AM
glennk glennk is offline
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Last question...its for those that ordered their X3. How does the process work? Do you simply tell them what you want and then they order it? Down payment required? Is the sale finalized when ordering or is that done when the vehicle arrives?
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2012, 02:43 AM
scubapup scubapup is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennk View Post
Last question...its for those that ordered their X3. How does the process work? Do you simply tell them what you want and then they order it? Down payment required? Is the sale finalized when ordering or is that done when the vehicle arrives?
1. Pretty much, if the car is on the lot then they don't have to order it
2. Deposit required, mine required only 1k, another wanted 5k
3. No, you still have to take delivery and inspect the car before actually finalizing the deal
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2012, 02:44 AM
scubapup scubapup is offline
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Oh and s an alternative to picking it up at the dealer, you could schedule to pick it up at the performance center in South Carolina
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2012, 03:09 AM
nhman nhman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennk View Post
Last question...its for those that ordered their X3. How does the process work? Do you simply tell them what you want and then they order it? Down payment required? Is the sale finalized when ordering or is that done when the vehicle arrives?
I have ordered most of my vehicles and will be ordering an X3. The policy is more or less the same for each dealer. A deposit will be required and can range from $500-1000. This should be 100% refundable unless you are ordering something very unique (say orange paint). The CA/Sales Mgr is looking to protect the dealer in case the sale doesn't go through. Otherwise, yes configure as you want and wait the 4-8 weeks.

According to my CA, 40% of their X3 transactions are custom orders.

Sale is finalized upon delivery of the vehicle. Be sure to inspect the vehicle thoroughly before signing the paperwork. Not only for damage but to confirm the vehicle was built as per spec.

I would also recommend that you align your financing prior to receiving the vehicle. Whether through BMW Financial or local. Some of the BMW credits require financing through their credit. Just know this ahead.
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  #11  
Old 12-03-2012, 03:31 AM
glennk glennk is offline
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I'm planning to lease. Thoughts on that?
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2012, 03:31 AM
glennk glennk is offline
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Also, what the heck is a MACO???? Trying to identify all the "gotchas" before going in.
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2012, 03:32 AM
glennk glennk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nhman View Post
I have ordered most of my vehicles and will be ordering an X3. The policy is more or less the same for each dealer. A deposit will be required and can range from $500-1000. This should be 100% refundable unless you are ordering something very unique (say orange paint). The CA/Sales Mgr is looking to protect the dealer in case the sale doesn't go through. Otherwise, yes configure as you want and wait the 4-8 weeks.

According to my CA, 40% of their X3 transactions are custom orders.

Sale is finalized upon delivery of the vehicle. Be sure to inspect the vehicle thoroughly before signing the paperwork. Not only for damage but to confirm the vehicle was built as per spec.

I would also recommend that you align your financing prior to receiving the vehicle. Whether through BMW Financial or local. Some of the BMW credits require financing through their credit. Just know this ahead.
If the sale falls through, do you get the deposit back??
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2012, 04:29 AM
Want the Thrill Want the Thrill is offline
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MACO fees cover the dealer's local advertising fees. The amount of this fee is based on the region your dealer is located in and varies between regions. Not all dealers have MACO fees. Any deposit you make is refundable.
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  #15  
Old 12-03-2012, 04:37 AM
nhman nhman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennk View Post
If the sale falls through, do you get the deposit back??
Short answer, yes. However some dealers will write-in the contract "non-refundable deposit". If this happens, before you sign and provide them with your credit card, ask that it be removed else walk-away. Some states have laws against the dealer being able to retain the deposit. That is unless you have ordered something very unique that would make it difficult for the dealer to sell it should you back out of the deal.

If you are concerned about getting the best deal, I would encourage you to contact one of the forum sponsors. They will be open and honest about the parameters of the deal. Do this only if the intent is to purchase through them. There are honest and good CA's that are not directly tied to this website but you need first do some homework.

Part of the deal is dollars above invoice. Another is the documentation fee. This will range between dealers and is largely back-end profit. The key is to look at the complete deal to know if it is good or not.
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  #16  
Old 12-03-2012, 05:05 AM
glennk glennk is offline
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I have looked at the sponsors of the site, but none are in the Dallas area. :-(
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  #17  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:21 AM
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lbjgh lbjgh is offline
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With respect to the thread title, I had a '13 N20 equipped 28i loaner when I had my car at the shop recently. The 4cyl seemed to have a more linear acceleration curve when compared to my 35i. Power was obviously less (as expected) 28i sport mode was comparable to 35i normal mode.

Last edited by lbjgh; 12-03-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2012, 12:53 PM
Coder Coder is offline
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We have a 2011 35 and love it. I have not driven the 4. The inline 6, even though it has been around forever, has been updated constantly and is a very modern and efficient engine. It is extremely smooth (inline 6's are inherently well balanced) and provides effortless power at any speed. Since the max torque is available from something like 1200 or 1500 rpm, you don't need high engine speeds to appreciate the extra power of the 6.

We see 24-25 mpg regularly. Most of our commutes are 10 - 20 miles between elevations of 6000 - 7500 ft. Observed mileage on longer trips is between 26 and 30 mpg, mostly determined by speed.

Re the ordering process. My understanding, dated by a couple of years, is that the factory allocates a certain number of vehicles for each dealer every year, based on sales and, undoubtedly, other factors. These allocated vehicles are scheduled for production by the factory, so the dealer knows when and which vehicles they will receive. The options, colors, etc. on most of these vehicles are determined by the factory, not the dealer. I assume that they look at a lot of historical sales data, perhaps sales regions, and who knows what else, to maximize sales.

A number of vehicles allocated to the dealer do not have their specifications preset. (They had a special term for these but I don't remember what it was.) These are the vechicles the dealer can use to satisfy orders for vehicles not presently available on the lot or in their near-term allocation pipeline. Just as with the other allocations, these "special order" (my term, not theirs) vehicles have a planned production date established by the factory. When you place your order, the dealer specifies all the options for your vehicle and attaches your name to it.

If you do place an order for an as yet unbuilt vehicle, you can, using BMW's web site, track it once it is placed in the production pipeline. In theory anyway. Back in 2011 we found that the web data was not very accurate or timely. Perhaps they have improved since then? They also produce a little video of your vehicle at a couple of spots on the assembly line.

I'm sure the dealers can take other approaches to satisfying a customer's needs: trade between other dealers, ask the factory to alter a schedule (probably not easy), increase/decrease allocations, etc. Would be interesting to know how all of that works and what the limits are!

Good luck with your new car!
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  #19  
Old 12-03-2012, 05:56 PM
glennk glennk is offline
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Thanks to everyone. Was able to get $750 over wholesale. Now the only thing holding me back is the trade-in. $2500 upside down with the dealer they took the car to. Any ideas on how to get a better rate?
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  #20  
Old 12-03-2012, 06:08 PM
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lbjgh lbjgh is offline
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Sell the car privately? By upside down, do you mean they are offering $2500 less than you owe on it?
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  #21  
Old 12-03-2012, 06:45 PM
Want the Thrill Want the Thrill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennk View Post
Thanks to everyone. Was able to get $750 over wholesale. Now the only thing holding me back is the trade-in. $2500 upside down with the dealer they took the car to. Any ideas on how to get a better rate?
Sell it outright on Craigs list. Sold my last 2 vehicles this way and they were both gone in less than a week.
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  #22  
Old 12-03-2012, 06:51 PM
glennk glennk is offline
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Never tried Craigslist before. I put my order in with BMW, but it won't be available for a few more weeks. Wonder if I could get the buyer to go through the dealer to make the purchase. Want to get the vehicle sale discount.
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  #23  
Old 12-03-2012, 06:51 PM
glennk glennk is offline
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Originally Posted by lbjgh View Post
Sell the car privately? By upside down, do you mean they are offering $2500 less than you owe on it?
Yes
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  #24  
Old 12-03-2012, 06:53 PM
02420X3 02420X3 is offline
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If you're upside down then you're upside down, but perhaps you're not. Check the Kelly Blue Book value, although dealers around here now use a Black Book value. Are you anywhere near Hurst? Check with Carmax in Hurst and see what they'll buy your car for.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:38 PM
Big W Big W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennk View Post
Frantastic! Thanks for the quick (and awesome) responses. I'm currently driving a GTI 6-speed with the APR Stage 1 upgrade. Something tells me to get the turbo 6 to keep parity with the GTI, but my rational (and cheap side) says to get the 4. Decisions decisions! Don't want buyers remorse...
you won't have regrets having too much horsepower, go for 35i
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