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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 12-02-2012, 09:30 AM
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MP3_E46 MP3_E46 is offline
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Ruined it with new wheels

Function over form... function over form...

Those were initial thoughts, but soon after I much preferred them over the stock ghetto 18s look. At least stock aren't chrome The wife commented she prefers not having large shiny plates on the car too. Top down it reminds me of 1990s Saab 93s.

Suitable center caps it should take some of the edge off (OEM caps are too large to fit).

From searching prior to purchase these are the first pics posted of 17" Kosei K4R on an E92 or E93. The same wheels look a lot better on my MX-5, but given the price/weight other members may prefer these over the regular winter wheels the E9x crowd buys (heavy A7 Sport Edition etc).

Using bathroom scales (digital at least) to weigh old and new gave these numbers:

18" OEM Front: 47.6 lbs
18" OEM Rear: 53.6 lbs
17" Kosehi: 42.6 lbs (with TPMS sensors)


Saving about ten pounds per corner (4.5kg) should add about one mpg to city gas mileage. Plus likely shave a tenth or two off 0-60 for those that care about such things.

Anyone else like/loath them? I am pretty thick skinned and this is our 3rd 'winter beater' car so flame away. From past experience center caps will really help, think I might go for the dark grey Roundels.











Other misc:

OEM wheels were a devil to remove. Broke one piece of 2x4 hammering them loose and snapped an impact socket unbolting the rears! Lump hammer and 2x4 is what you need to get stuck wheels off; never ever had to do that before.. put on anti-sieze paste before fitting new wheels.

New wheels are 225 all around. Notice the rears now seem inset from the wheel wells. This is a 2009 328i that had original Sports Package wheels (style 197 18").

Replacement tires for the smaller wheels are ~$450, and they have about triple the tread wear rating of the OEM runflats. OEMs are $1,200 -> $1,400 to replace (tire cost alone) and the 18" wheels will be pothole magnets. Glad to put them in our attic
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Last edited by MP3_E46; 12-02-2012 at 09:39 AM.
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  #2  
Old 12-02-2012, 09:48 AM
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There's always a good balance between weight and looks, it's just a compromise about the cost. The Kosei's have always been popular for quick track sets. That amount of weight, even unsprung, won't be getting you any tenths though.
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2012, 10:13 AM
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There's always a good balance between weight and looks, it's just a compromise about the cost. The Kosei's have always been popular for quick track sets. That amount of weight, even unsprung, won't be getting you any tenths though.
Yup, plan if I did not like them was to sell used to someone who tracks their BMW.

Car and Driver shaved 0.3 of 0-60 by using 14lb light wheels http://www.caranddriver.com/features...d-tires-tested. There combined mpg increased by 2.2 mpg too.

Un-sprung only matters for handling (up/down motion of wheel). Inertia vs regular momentum is the topic here; ever try spinning even a super lightweight bicycle wheel? I forget specific equations from Applied Math but it's a big deal. Someone will likely chime in..
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by MP3_E46 View Post
Yup, plan if I did not like them was to sell used to someone who tracks their BMW.

Car and Driver shaved 0.3 of 0-60 by using 14lb light wheels http://www.caranddriver.com/features...d-tires-tested. There combined mpg increased by 2.2 mpg too.

Un-sprung only matters for handling (up/down motion of wheel). Inertia vs regular momentum is the topic here; ever try spinning even a super lightweight bicycle wheel? I forget specific equations from Applied Math but it's a big deal. Someone will likely chime in..
Veteran FSAE designer

Most of their gain was from changing where, radially, the mass was located, not necessarily the total assembly weight. Which, coincidentally, is why even shaving 6lb per corner didn't do very much for me. 19s are still 19s.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2012, 11:54 AM
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I love the "ruined it" comments that people make when talking about wheels, paint, or window tint.

The car goes down the road, right? Then it's not ruined.

As for the wheels, I think they look good. I did the same thing on my car, went from 19" 5 spokes to 17" 10 spokes. The ride was significantly improved, and the car is much more pleasant to drive now.

Frederic
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2012, 11:58 AM
TXFred TXFred is offline
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Originally Posted by MP3_E46 View Post
Replacement tires for the smaller wheels are ~$450, and they have about triple the tread wear rating of the OEM runflats. OEMs are $1,200 -> $1,400 to replace (tire cost alone)
I gotta ask, where are you buying tires? I replaced a 19" runflat rear on my 335i for $500. If you're paying four figures for a single tire, you have got to start shopping around more. It sounds like you're getting robbed.

Frederic
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:44 PM
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I gotta ask, where are you buying tires? I replaced a 19" runflat rear on my 335i for $500. If you're paying four figures for a single tire, you have got to start shopping around more. It sounds like you're getting robbed.

Frederic
lo, I should have been more specific. That's for four OEM tires at tire-rack. 17" Kumho are $448 ($112 each). OEMs are $1,228 to $1,440 depending on which OEM tire you have.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT View Post
Veteran FSAE designer

Most of their gain was from changing where, radially, the mass was located, not necessarily the total assembly weight. Which, coincidentally, is why even shaving 6lb per corner didn't do very much for me. 19s are still 19s.
True, further towards the edge the more that weight is trying to 'escape its orbit'. Tire rack went from 19s to 15s in that article where despite (195s vs 235s) much less grip 0-60 improved.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFred View Post
I love the "ruined it" comments that people make when talking about wheels, paint, or window tint.

As for the wheels, I think they look good. I did the same thing on my car, went from 19" 5 spokes to 17" 10 spokes.
Thanks! 19" must have been a terrible ride.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MP3_E46 View Post
True, further towards the edge the more that weight is trying to 'escape its orbit'. Tire rack went from 19s to 15s in that article where despite (195s vs 235s) much less grip 0-60 improved.
As long as you're not launching at the traction limit, you can handle running narrower tires. Torque, and the requisite driver skill accompanying that arbitrary number, usually has more to do with it.
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:31 PM
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Thanks! 19" must have been a terrible ride.
Yeah, it was pretty bad. Even minor potholes felt like a bomb going off under the car, and the alignment suffered from all those impacts.

And the tires were stupidly expensive.

Also, between the tinted windows and the big wheels, it looked like a drug dealer's car.

Frederic
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by TXFred View Post
Yeah, it was pretty bad. Even minor potholes felt like a bomb going off under the car, and the alignment suffered from all those impacts.

And the tires were stupidly expensive.

Also, between the tinted windows and the big wheels, it looked like a drug dealer's car.

Frederic
Hairdryer and windex removes tints. I researched that while looking at used cars. Oh yeah, I need to book it in for a precision alignment.. first and last hopefully.
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  #13  
Old 12-02-2012, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MP3_E46 View Post
Hairdryer and windex removes tints. I researched that while looking at used cars. Oh yeah, I need to book it in for a precision alignment.. first and last hopefully.
The OEM wheels are great looking, but quite heavy as you've noted. This is quite "curious" as BMW tries to reduce every pound of weight from the car, but my research has shown that RF tires do impose additional stress/strains on the wheel vs. non-RF tires therefore I believe the BMW wheels are "beefed up" to accommodate this (we've heard plenty of wheel cracking issues with the 19" wheels). Some 18" wheel cracking issues also...but far fewer.

My only "concern" is that you may have upset the handling of the car by going away from the staggered fitment. I suspect that the "desirable" understeer has been reduced and the car is now in a "neutral" steer. Perhaps not a problem unless you take on/off ramps at screaming speeds. Nevertheless, you are guilty of upsetting BMW order of the universe by changing the handling characteristics of your car...the ULTIMATE driving machine.

We in this forum may vote on your membership!

I am a big fan of reducing unsprung weight. I did it with my E46 that I tracked frequently (SSR wheels), but they were "good looking" wheels. I'm not sure that I would have purchased your wheel design...especially considering the lack of 'caps.'
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Old 12-02-2012, 06:45 PM
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That's your winter beater?!

Let me know if you want someone to smash it around for you when the temps drop!
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Old 12-02-2012, 07:38 PM
Spagolli94 Spagolli94 is offline
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Yeah, it was pretty bad. Even minor potholes felt like a bomb going off under the car, and the alignment suffered from all those impacts.

Frederic
I blame that more on the BMW suspension rather than the large wheels. My RS4 had 19s and the ride was firm, yet very quiet and compliant. Much better than my E90 with smaller 18" wheels.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:16 AM
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That's your winter beater?!

Let me know if you want someone to smash it around for you when the temps drop!
Yeah the MX-5 is a bit scary/jittery to drive on dark wet nights after twelve hours in the office. Might seems a bit excessive for a winter 'beater' but I really enjoy the top down even in winter and plan to keep it a good while. Once they hit $25K the verts depreciate slowly. The MX-5's vinyl top gets stiff and is hard to put down below ~50F too, this hardtop works down to below freezing

MX-5 brings a much smile to my face but the E93 is not bad. Wish the steering rack were quicker is my main complaint regarding having fun on the commute.
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:30 AM
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I blame that more on the BMW suspension rather than the large wheels. My RS4 had 19s and the ride was firm, yet very quiet and compliant. Much better than my E90 with smaller 18" wheels.
Guess it's a combination. Maybe the RS4 has electrically adjustable dampers these days? Most cars of that level tend to now.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:17 AM
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Since you asked, to me the new wheels look like they belong on a Honda...
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:07 AM
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Since you asked, to me the new wheels look like they belong on a Honda...
+1, or a drug dealer's car...
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:44 AM
Spagolli94 Spagolli94 is offline
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Guess it's a combination. Maybe the RS4 has electrically adjustable dampers these days? Most cars of that level tend to now.
No, but it did have some system called DRC or something like that. Not sure how it worked, other than it provided a firm ride for handling, but did a great job dealing with rough, choppy pavement. I remember when I first got that car a couple years ago. I would see a bump in the road and cringe that I was going to have a huge impact, like I was used to in my 330i. Then, I'd hit the bump and just hear/feel a little thud.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:40 AM
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No, but it did have some system called DRC or something like that. Not sure how it worked, other than it provided a firm ride for handling, but did a great job dealing with rough, choppy pavement. I remember when I first got that car a couple years ago. I would see a bump in the road and cringe that I was going to have a huge impact, like I was used to in my 330i. Then, I'd hit the bump and just hear/feel a little thud.
Good guess hey In ten years virtually all sporty cars will ride smooth and corner hard when this technology trickles down. I've use Porsche's PASM and it's really good.

"The RS6 also served as the debut model for Audi's "Dynamic Ride Control" (DRC) system. The DRC system is mainly mechanical, and uses a pump to provide additional pressure to individual dampers (shock absorbers) during cornering, acceleration or braking; to counteract rolling and pitching. The system can adjust the stiffness at each individual damper constantly; to maintain both a comfortable ride on straight roads, and high level of poise and grip when cornering hard, accelerating, or braking. The DRC's main advantage is that it operates without the need for complicated electronics, as required in similar systems from Mercedes-Benz and other competitors."

E9xs SPs are 18" run flats at 45 psi in the rear with fairly stiff spring/shocks. It's gong to be a fairly rough ride on bad pavement. Of course a DRC style system would allow the shocks to be softer in such instance but non M cars don't have it yet (AFAIK).
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:41 AM
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+1, or a drug dealer's car...
Honesty at last. They are Japanese wheels and look great on my own ricer (silver MX-5)
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:07 PM
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Don't do it! I know ride is bit harsher ( just a bit though ), tires are a tad pricier and slightly tougher to keep clean but in my opinion there is no comparison. Don't ruin the look and handling of your beautiful Beemer!
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:28 PM
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I like the stock wheels much better. They look kinda like the competition wheels on the M3.

What year E93 do you have? I don't find the 19" wheels and run flat tires on my 335is convertible to be rough riding in the least. And, unless I hit a pot hole, I don't get slams from the suspension hitting rough patches in the road.

I think BMW straightened out the rough suspension issues in 2010.
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Last edited by beden1; 12-09-2012 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
I like the stock wheels much better. They look kinda like the competition wheels on the M3.

What year E93 do you have? I don't find the 19" wheels and run flat tires on my 335is convertible to be rough riding in the least. And, unless I hit a pot hole, I don't get slams from the suspension hitting rough patches in the road.

I think BMW straightened out the rough suspension issues in 2010.
It's a 2009. Ride was ok, just wanted to get more than 3K miles out of the rear tyres and have replacements cost less than $450 each Also even in Atlanta summer tyres are not wise in winter so it was time to put them in the attic.

It's nice to able to take the car into the city now.
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Last edited by MP3_E46; 12-09-2012 at 02:49 PM.
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