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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 03-08-2013, 08:58 AM
old-school old-school is offline
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2011 X5 M Sport Purchase Advice Needed

I posted this earlier last evening and the post just seemed poorly written so I have re written it for the most part. I hope I did not offend anyone with the previous post as I did not mean to be offensive.

If you can offer me any suggestions after reading this I would appreciate it very much. At this time they are running my credit through BMWUSA and I see no problems with being approved. Its just the amount I have to pay after my downpayment that concerns me and how much wiggle room would you believe the dealership has here.
Thanks in advance and here is the re written post.

Hello everyone. I have posted here in the past when I owned several different Bimmers. I havent posted in awhile but right now I am in the market for an SUV and there is a very nice almost fully loaded 2011 X5 M- Sport with 36K on the clock for sale at my local dealership. They have it listed at 52,995.00 CPO until 7/30/16 or 100K miles. Factory warranty still good for another 3.5K of course. So right now I find myself with some questions I have that I feel many of you can give me an honest answer so hence the reason for this post., First question is how much should I expect to get them down on the price? The sales manager has told me he wouldnt ask MSRP for me since I have been a valuable customer so.... Also I have bought 3 BMW's from them thru BMW Financial in the past 4 years and paid off all 4 with no late payments. I think right now the interest rate for this is 3.9% up to 72 months.
Here is the build sheet:

ORIGINAL BUILD SHEET WITH COSTS AT INITIAL PURCHASE PRICE OF 79K
Design/MSRP
L417770
Description MSRP
Model 1162 X5 xDr50i USD 58,400.00
Color 416
Options ZCW
ZMP
ZPP
Carbon Black Metallic N/C
Cold Weather Package 750.00
494 Heated front seats N/C
M Sport Package 6,500.00
Premium Package 2,200.00
319 Universal garage-door opener N/C
431 Auto-dimming rearview mirror N/C
493 Storage package N/C
563 Ambiance lighting N/C
Premium Sound Package 1,800.00
677 Premium hi-fi system N/C
Rear Climate Package 900.00
4NB 4-zone automatic climate control N/C
Technology Package 2,800.00
Ski bag N/C
502 Retractable headlight washers N/C
2VA Adaptive Drive N/C
316 Power tailgate N/C
430 Auto-dimming interior and exterior mirrors N/C
488 Lumbar support N/C
4NA Digital compass mirror N/C
639 BMW Assist with Bluetooth N/C
ZPS
ZRC
ZTP
655 Satellite radio with 1 year subscription N/C
6FL iPod and USB adapter N/C
417 Rear manual side window shades N/C
761 Privacy glass N/C
3AH Rear View Camera with Top View N/C
508
615
6AA
6UH
220
3MA
Park Distance Control N/C
Online Information Services N/C
BMW TeleServices N/C
Real Time Traffic Information N/C
Self-leveling suspension N/C
BMW Individual roof rails Aluminium N/C
609 Navigation system N/C
620 Voice-command N/C
6AB TeleService Control N/C
337 M Sport Package N/C
2NY
20" Light alloy Double-spoke wheels sty... 950.00
481 Sport seats N/C
710
M steering wheel N/C
7M5 M exterior parts in body color N/C
322 Comfort Access keyless entry 1,000.00
4AZ
6FF
840 Increased top speed limiter N/C
Dark Bamboo wood trim N/C
Rear seat entertainment 1,700.00
Net Total 78,450.00
Total Suggested Price 79,325.00

Doesn't have the luxury comfort seats or rear heated seats. I believe this is about all the add on's its missing, no its also missing the side window camera and warning lights. Would I be correct, and would my offering 49K be a reasonable offer. Can anyone give me any tips on the negotiations to get the price lowered?

Thanks everyone for your expert opinion.

Forgot to mention I test drove it today and OMG this thing is faster than my old 04 545I 6speed manual sport. I was shocked the power this SUV has. It is possbily the fastest BMW I have driven so far. And its luxurious to the nth degree. Looks like the original owner took very good care. Even the back deck lid was without scratches. I could not find anything that looked used in this vehicle. I am not crazy about the run flats though but it was much better than the 2011 335 HTC I bought 2 years ago. That thing would kill you when you ran over a small bump in the road. This is truly a beast but also rides like no tomorrow. Super nice sounding stereo system with rear dvd to boot for the grandkids to use on those long drives to the beach. One thing about that dvd is its stationary so I kept hitting my right elbow on it when I would turn around to look in the back. Kind of aggravating. Wish they put it on a tilt or swing away to hide it when not in use. Other than that its a beautiful vehicle and a real hot rod, if you want it to be. I would hope to get, with a kind foot, about 21 miles to the gallon on the highway, hopefully 14 in town. Would that be realistic? Thanks again, I just faxed in my application which I know will be approved. I now just need some better negotiating skills with this one. I do not want to pay the sticker price on it thats for sure!
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  #2  
Old 03-08-2013, 01:21 PM
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When I was shopping for my X5M I asked about leasing and they quoted my residual on a 2013 to go for $54k after three years. I ended up buying anyway but to me, that $52k doesn't sound too bad on a 2011.

Also sounds like the one you're looking at is in immaculate shape from what you've described and spec'd out well. If you're happy with the vehicle and comfortable with the price then go for it.
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:35 PM
PAX5 PAX5 is offline
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Consider ... but definitely run a VIN check (Carfax, dealer service records etc).

I've been looking at these as well ... there is a whole slew of them entering the market via Mannheim auctions and BMWFS.

Current average auction selling price range is low 30's to mid 40's.

This part you are not going to like: your model with 36K mi or so are selling at auction for high 30's to low 40's. VIN check on yours says that vehicle has been in a minor left rear impact ...

It appears that this car was traded in at this dealer (VIN does not show up at recent auctions). But ask. Dealer trade-in allowance should be close to Mannheim or BMWFS auction prices posted above.

After CPO, my guess is that this dealer has tops, $42-43K into this car.

Question is: what is a reasonable profit for this dealer to unload the car?
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Old 03-08-2013, 02:45 PM
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There is some wondering if he should but his 2010 off lease= MSRP was 80, lease buy out is 48k...

Basically the market is driven to the lease buy out number- AND the dealer is paying 5k under that.

Another datum will be to price the 'trade in value' for you car on KBB, etc... THAT should be a 'good buy'. No dealer pays trade in, they pay 10-15% under.

All IMO

A
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:40 PM
old-school old-school is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
Consider ... but definitely run a VIN check (Carfax, dealer service records etc).

I've been looking at these as well ... there is a whole slew of them entering the market via Mannheim auctions and BMWFS.

Current average auction selling price range is low 30's to mid 40's.

This part you are not going to like: your model with 36K mi or so are selling at auction for high 30's to low 40's. VIN check on yours says that vehicle has been in a minor left rear impact ...

It appears that this car was traded in at this dealer (VIN does not show up at recent auctions). But ask. Dealer trade-in allowance should be close to Mannheim or BMWFS auction prices posted above.

After CPO, my guess is that this dealer has tops, $42-43K into this car.

Question is: what is a reasonable profit for this dealer to unload the car?
Very interesting information. Thank you. I know the General Manager of this dealership personally so I think I will offer him 43K and use the accident and the mannheim prices as a bit of leverage. Hopefully I get it for 45k and I am putting down 9K so my payments should be okay with 3.9% finance rate through BMWFA. I swear this thing looks and drives like a new one. I love the thing now if I can just get it at a good price. He is gonna crap himself when I offer 43K as its listed on the internet at 52,995.00
I talked to him this morning about my application and I mentioned the price and he told me " You know I am not going to charge you the sticker price". Even so I am sure we will be quite a bit off in our values of this X5!
Thanks for the heads up I really appreciate it. I will keep you posted once I hear from them. They never sent in my application today as my salesman was busy all day. He is sending it right now so they may get an answer tonight, worst case tomorrow morning. Either way I think I will stick firm at 45K and lets see how they shake it out.
What do you think about that strategy?
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Old 03-08-2013, 03:43 PM
old-school old-school is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
There is some wondering if he should but his 2010 off lease= MSRP was 80, lease buy out is 48k...

Basically the market is driven to the lease buy out number- AND the dealer is paying 5k under that.

Another datum will be to price the 'trade in value' for you car on KBB, etc... THAT should be a 'good buy'. No dealer pays trade in, they pay 10-15% under.

All IMO

A
You are saying to check KBB for the trade in value of the X5 right? I did that last night and I believe it was 42K. I will look again. I agree with you they never pay the KBB trade in value on most vehicles unless they are killing you on the MSRP.

So the KBB trade in value on this is as follows
Excellent - $48,263.00
Good - $47,363.00
Fair - $45,863.00
Poor - $41,663.00

So lets say they rated it as good, its possible they gave him 43-44K on trade. So I would imagine an offer of 45K they would reject as its a CPO. I am thinking they will counter me at 50K on the button. If they do I will try again with an offer of 46,500.00 and see if I can get them to budge. Once I am approved for the loan amount I think I have a little bit of the upper hand as I can walk away without buying anything! Thoughts?
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Last edited by old-school; 03-08-2013 at 03:58 PM. Reason: More information
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:23 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old-school View Post
You are saying to check KBB for the trade in value of the X5 right? I did that last night and I believe it was 42K. I will look again. I agree with you they never pay the KBB trade in value on most vehicles unless they are killing you on the MSRP.

So the KBB trade in value on this is as follows
Excellent - $48,263.00
Good - $47,363.00
Fair - $45,863.00
Poor - $41,663.00

So lets say they rated it as good, its possible they gave him 43-44K on trade. So I would imagine an offer of 45K they would reject as its a CPO. I am thinking they will counter me at 50K on the button. If they do I will try again with an offer of 46,500.00 and see if I can get them to budge. Once I am approved for the loan amount I think I have a little bit of the upper hand as I can walk away without buying anything! Thoughts?
Good info and analysis. my knowledge of KBB and where it lies is dated, as I am not currently shopping and dont track it. But if I could but a cherry CPO, with a warranty that is worth 2500, for 'kbb trade in', I'd be happy. 48k with the CPO would be a good deal, IMO, given where KBB has historically been.
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Old 03-08-2013, 04:40 PM
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Are you financing through the dealer? Is it BMWFS financing? That has value as well, but I am not quite sure how to figure out the residual cash flow to the dealer.

I'm with ARD: I estimate that the selling price for this car will be $48K.

Keep in mind that the "minor accident" already registered on CarFax will follow the car for the rest of it life. Every subsequent buyer/trader/dealer will discount for this fact, no matter how minor ... You might as well use it as a leverage also.
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  #9  
Old 03-08-2013, 06:18 PM
old-school old-school is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
Are you financing through the dealer? Is it BMWFS financing? That has value as well, but I am not quite sure how to figure out the residual cash flow to the dealer.

I'm with ARD: I estimate that the selling price for this car will be $48K.

Keep in mind that the "minor accident" already registered on CarFax will follow the car for the rest of it life. Every subsequent buyer/trader/dealer will discount for this fact, no matter how minor ... You might as well use it as a leverage also.
Yes I am financing through BMW Financial. The interest rate is 3.9%
I plan on using this minor incident to the nth degree when we start negotiating the purchase price. I am pretty sure I will not offer over 48K and I plan to walk if they do not meet me there. After all once they add the destination charges, plus sales tax and tags we are right around what 51K. If I knew how long this has been sitting on the lot it might help me also but I am not sure. So tomorrow I expect to begin negotiations. We shall see. I do expect them to laugh me off when I offer then 45K from the get go.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
Are you financing through the dealer? Is it BMWFS financing? That has value as well, but I am not quite sure how to figure out the residual cash flow to the dealer.

I'm with ARD: I estimate that the selling price for this car will be $48K.

Keep in mind that the "minor accident" already registered on CarFax will follow the car for the rest of it life. Every subsequent buyer/trader/dealer will discount for this fact, no matter how minor ... You might as well use it as a leverage also.

Just received an email from the salesman. I am APPROVED for the full loan amount of this X5. He wants to know when I want to take delivery? So should I email him back and say " I will take if for 45K, and I will put down 5K bringing the sale price to an even 40K plus sales tax, destination charge and tags, since its been in an accident although small and I believe that would be a fair price for the both of us?

Thanks for your help!
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:44 PM
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Total sales price is still $45K no matter how much you put down. In your case the total loan would be $40K... Don't confuse yourself otherwise you would get jerked around. Good luck.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:46 PM
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My calculations show that the monthly payment difference between a selling price of $48K vs $45K is approximately $100 per month ($960/mo vs $870/mo) on a 48 mo loan at 3.9%. That $100 should feel a lot better in your pocket, than the dealers pocket, especially after the newness of the car has worn off ... ($100 more a month to fill up that thirsty tank with (only) 25 more gallons of fuel and drive the beast!)

Don't get too hyped up over the car. I know it is hard, but give yourself the time to think it through. You'll have a different perspective on this if you give it a couple of days. There are plenty of X5 50i M-sports coming off lease right now. One with 10K more miles will make you feel just as exhilarated, still be under factory warranty, but will cost you $5K to $7K less ... more money in YOUR pocket!
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old-school View Post
Just received an email from the salesman. I am APPROVED for the full loan amount of this X5. He wants to know when I want to take delivery? So should I email him back and say " I will take if for 45K, and I will put down 5K bringing the sale price to an even 40K plus sales tax, destination charge and tags, since its been in an accident although small and I believe that would be a fair price for the both of us?

Thanks for your help!
No matter how much you like it, stand firm. Tell them 45K out the door with all fees included. They know you are approved so is on them to close the deal. They will play hard ball being the early in the month BUT this is not the only one out there. And let them know that! Good luck
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kzang View Post
Total sales price is still $45K no matter how much you put down. In your case the total loan would be $40K... Don't confuse yourself otherwise you would get jerked around. Good luck.
Yep that was what I meant lol. Thanks for clearing it up. DUH on me right
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:09 PM
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Did a quick search: there are at least 5 other 2011 X5 50i out there within a 100 mi radius from your selling dealer, with much lower miles and prices in the mid to high 40"s. Check it out!
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
My calculations show that the monthly payment difference between a selling price of $48K vs $45K is approximately $100 per month ($960/mo vs $870/mo) on a 48 mo loan at 3.9%. That $100 should feel a lot better in your pocket, than the dealers pocket, especially after the newness of the car has worn off ... ($100 more a month to fill up that thirsty tank with (only) 25 more gallons of fuel and drive the beast!)

Don't get too hyped up over the car. I know it is hard, but give yourself the time to think it through. You'll have a different perspective on this if you give it a couple of days. There are plenty of X5 50i M-sports coming off lease right now. One with 10K more miles will make you feel just as exhilarated, still be under factory warranty, but will cost you $5K to $7K less ... more money in YOUR pocket!
I agree but to be honest I feel strange offering 43K for something that they are asking almost 53K for. I have always been this way. Now I dont mind telling them I will offer 43K but I still feel strange and I am sure since the General Sales Manager knows me he will try and make me pay as much as possible. Isnt that what friends are for in the car business? So I will email the salesman tomorrow and tell him my offer is 43K and I will pay them 5K down and they can finance 38K and that will include tax, tags and destination fees. I am sure I will here both the salesman and my friend the GM screaming from 12 miles away.

Thanks for your imput. Now all I have to do is stay strong on my price, not theirs.
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Old 03-08-2013, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post
Did a quick search: there are at least 5 other 2011 X5 50i out there within a 100 mi radius from your selling dealer, with much lower miles and prices in the mid to high 40"s. Check it out!
What search engine are you using. This will help me greatly with my negotiation.
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:21 PM
PAX5 PAX5 is offline
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Does this look like your car: http://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invento...sting=53422774
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by PAX5 View Post

Thats the one. Looks way over priced to me! According to that website anyway. Why they didnt add the comfort seats is beyond me? With all those extra's they add the sport seats, They are no where close to the same league as the Comfort Seats. They are the best seats I have ever sat my fat rear end in. Thats what I wish it had over anything else. I would trade the HUD display and a couple other things to have had those in this SUV. Oh well you cant have it all I guess.

I have a question about the HUD if you can answer it. What does it display other than the speed? I had a old Pontiac Bonneville SSEI that had the HUD and that displayed the speed, radio station and the time. When I test drove the X5 all I could find to display on the HUD was the speed. Certainly it will display more than that? I hear that the navigation isnt so great anymore either as BMW changed software? Is that true also? Another point I can use to get the price down possibly???? What say you.
Oh and thanks much for the carfax pull. I had the build sheet and they really added quite a bit. Still there was quite a bit left out too. I never knew all those things could be added to this vehicle. Wow!
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Last edited by old-school; 03-08-2013 at 08:51 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:05 AM
PAX5 PAX5 is offline
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20 way comfort seats is a must! Keep looking if the car doesn't have it ... you are not going to like the sport seat bolsters getting in-and-out ...

You can read about HUD in the attached PDF (p. 46).
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:09 PM
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Is it possible to get a good deal by asking your dealership to look out for the X5M you want... I mean if they know they don't have to stock it and that they can just buy it in their system
I'd say that it is easy money for them and easy to deal for you as well.

I wonder if that is something that people have done ?

I am also in the market for a 2011 X5M. Florida Region.

I am a bit afraid to go through manheim and use a cheapo broker to do the whole deal but it seems the best way to go right now
A local guy offers me to pay him $500 and he will buy it for me at auction, but I think I am ready to pay $5k for CPO just for piece of mind.
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Old 03-12-2013, 06:47 PM
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Is it possible to get a good deal by asking your dealership to look out for the X5M you want... I mean if they know they don't have to stock it and that they can just buy it in their system
I'd say that it is easy money for them and easy to deal for you as well.

I wonder if that is something that people have done ?

I am also in the market for a 2011 X5M. Florida Region.

I am a bit afraid to go through manheim and use a cheapo broker to do the whole deal but it seems the best way to go right now
A local guy offers me to pay him $500 and he will buy it for me at auction, but I think I am ready to pay $5k for CPO just for piece of mind.

There are many other choices between your two!

Asking a dealer to look for one and having them CPO it will be the absolute MOST expensive way to buy that car..and the 'peace' of mind is false...there is zero guarantee you will not get a bad car. Maybe higher odds, but dealer can CPO wrecks and 'near lemons'.

5k is not the spread. 10k is closer to the delta between auction price and ft laudersdale retail CPO
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:21 PM
old-school old-school is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
There are many other choices between your two!

Asking a dealer to look for one and having them CPO it will be the absolute MOST expensive way to buy that car..and the 'peace' of mind is false...there is zero guarantee you will not get a bad car. Maybe higher odds, but dealer can CPO wrecks and 'near lemons'.

5k is not the spread. 10k is closer to the delta between auction price and ft laudersdale retail CPO
Well since I personally know the General Sales Manager and I spoke to him on the phone yesterday. I feel that he will get me the vehicle I want. I told him what I could live with and what I could live without. He knows that I understand about buying from Mannheim as I have bought at those auctions through private dealers and paid them $250-$500.00 for the opportunity to get them at near wholesale instead of retail. My GSM knows this. We both are in agreement that I want the best deal I can get but I am willing to pay for the CPO so I think I will get a decent deal on what he finds for me. I have 60 days from this past Friday for him to located either a nicely equipped X5 xDrive 35I M Sport or a nicely equipped X5 xDrive 50i M Sport. I have deal breakers that I am firm on and he knows this. He buys and sells all the time from these sales. So I am comfortable with him picking out the vehicle for me. He also knows I will call him on something I feel is a rip off. So hopefully we get what we want, and if we don't, I will keep looking until I find something that suits me, even if I have to travel to get it. So needless to say we pray a lot
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:45 AM
philooo philooo is offline
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I am glad to see some dealer are ready to help and provide service.

I was thinking of doing just what you did. I hope you get back to us to see how it goes for you.
I am not sure my local dealer will be as nice as yours. looking forward to read the outcome.

I might go see my local guy as well and see what they say about a similar proposition, where they hunt for me. The big advantage is that they can hunt for you in the BMW lease returns, which your local manheim broker cannot do.
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Old 03-13-2013, 06:05 AM
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5seriesHB 5seriesHB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philooo View Post
I am glad to see some dealer are ready to help and provide service.

I was thinking of doing just what you did. I hope you get back to us to see how it goes for you.
I am not sure my local dealer will be as nice as yours. looking forward to read the outcome.

I might go see my local guy as well and see what they say about a similar proposition, where they hunt for me. The big advantage is that they can hunt for you in the BMW lease returns, which your local manheim broker cannot do.
I came up w a big zero on this w my guy
They had bigger fish to fry
i had to do the leg work myself
and here it is
just check every day!

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...ry_search.aspx

goodluck!
its an exciting process looking for cars....i love the hunt/
its like dating all over again!
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