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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #26  
Old 12-10-2012, 09:13 PM
DSXMachina's Avatar
DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
The bigger problem with Super Blue and TYP 200 is that neither is a low-viscosity fluid. ATE SL.6 is their DOT4 low-viscosity formulation and the only ATE fluid fully recommended for DSC-equipped cars. Pentosin DOT4 LV and Textar DOT4 PRO are alternatives.

Standard viscosity DOT4 fluids can slow the response time of DSC/ABS. It stands to reason the higher viscosity also may subject some components to increased stress/wear/risk of failure, which was probably their argument to deny the warranty claim.

http://www.ate-na.com/generator/www/...bf_sl6_us.html
Zeich, I'm always a little skeptical of technical advice from a product manufacturer. There's lies, damned lies, and statistics. In this case take a close look at the graph on their ad. The slopes are shown for MINUS 30 degrees! Interesting, don't you think? Secondly, no intervals are given for the time axis. And lastly, they reference no SAE white papers or independent data to support their claims.
Not saying ATE isn't good stuff, just taking it with a grain of salt.
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  #27  
Old 12-10-2012, 10:43 PM
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Zeichen311 Zeichen311 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Zeich, I'm always a little skeptical of technical advice from a product manufacturer. There's lies, damned lies, and statistics. In this case take a close look at the graph on their ad. The slopes are shown for MINUS 30 degrees! Interesting, don't you think? Secondly, no intervals are given for the time axis. And lastly, they reference no SAE white papers or independent data to support their claims.
Not saying ATE isn't good stuff, just taking it with a grain of salt.
Great points DSX, and in truth I barely glanced at the chart (though I did notice it was for sub-arctic conditions! ). It was one of your peers from a respected shop here in Joisey who cautioned us to avoid non-LV fluids in the newer cars...in a technical presentation a few years back on, of all things, brake fluid! I recall he cited BMW's requirement but I couldn't find a reference in a hasty search, thus the ATE link.

Food for thought, in any case.
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  #28  
Old 12-10-2012, 11:56 PM
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SD Z4MR SD Z4MR is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
BEFORE you start the job make sure you can loosen all your bleeder screws. You don't want to find out after starting the job you can't properly bleed because you've got a jammed bleeder. A little shot of penetrating oil on each one is always a good idea.
Some very good advice! I'm sorry to say that I learned this the hard way. Fortunately, it wasn't my car!

A new, fellow BMW CCA member just moved here from Pennsylvania after he graduated this past spring. He brought with him the E36 M3 that his uncle from Indiana had given him for a graduation present (he first rode in his uncle's car when he was 8 and credits that ride for his interest in BMWs!). In September he wanted to do an oil change and brake fluid flush, but had never done this before and didn't have hardly any tools, so I offered my garage and equipment and he brought the car over. I haven't worked on a Midwest car in over 25 years and I'd never worked on a car this old. The car had a lot of rust on the under body components. This was a learning experience for him so I did the right rear brake which went fine. He started on the left rear brake and couldn't get the bleeder screw loose and next thing I knew he broke it off! A call to a local German car dismantler located a used left rear caliper so we made a mad dash to the other side of San Diego County during rush hour to get there before they closed. We squirted the front bleeder screws with Liquid Wrench and had no problem with those. To add to his learning experience he not only learned how to change the oil and flush the brake fluid, he also learned how to replace a caliper in the process!
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Last edited by SD Z4MR; 12-11-2012 at 03:56 PM.
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  #29  
Old 12-11-2012, 03:56 AM
hondo402000 hondo402000 is offline
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thats percisely why I purchased OEM Brake fluid

Hondo
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  #30  
Old 12-11-2012, 08:34 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
The bigger problem with Super Blue and TYP 200 is that neither is a low-viscosity fluid. ATE SL.6 is their DOT4 low-viscosity formulation and the only ATE fluid fully recommended for DSC-equipped cars. Pentosin DOT4 LV and Textar DOT4 PRO are alternatives.

Standard viscosity DOT4 fluids can slow the response time of DSC/ABS. It stands to reason the higher viscosity also may subject some components to increased stress/wear/risk of failure, which was probably their argument to deny the warranty claim.

http://www.ate-na.com/generator/www/...bf_sl6_us.html

We learn something new every day....still early too....can you give us a BMW reference on this?

Very interesting!
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  #31  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:29 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Location: New Hampshire
 
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Mein Auto: 335i E92 TiAg 6MT ED
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
The bigger problem with Super Blue and TYP 200 is that neither is a low-viscosity fluid. ATE SL.6 is their DOT4 low-viscosity formulation and the only ATE fluid fully recommended for DSC-equipped cars. Pentosin DOT4 LV and Textar DOT4 PRO are alternatives.

Standard viscosity DOT4 fluids can slow the response time of DSC/ABS. It stands to reason the higher viscosity also may subject some components to increased stress/wear/risk of failure, which was probably their argument to deny the warranty claim.

http://www.ate-na.com/generator/www/...bf_sl6_us.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Zeich, I'm always a little skeptical of technical advice from a product manufacturer. There's lies, damned lies, and statistics. In this case take a close look at the graph on their ad. The slopes are shown for MINUS 30 degrees! Interesting, don't you think? Secondly, no intervals are given for the time axis. And lastly, they reference no SAE white papers or independent data to support their claims.
Not saying ATE isn't good stuff, just taking it with a grain of salt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeichen311 View Post
Great points DSX, and in truth I barely glanced at the chart (though I did notice it was for sub-arctic conditions! ). It was one of your peers from a respected shop here in Joisey who cautioned us to avoid non-LV fluids in the newer cars...in a technical presentation a few years back on, of all things, brake fluid! I recall he cited BMW's requirement but I couldn't find a reference in a hasty search, thus the ATE link.

Food for thought, in any case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
We learn something new every day....still early too....can you give us a BMW reference on this?

Very interesting!
Stay tuned, we're checking. I haven't come up with anything other than boilerplate. You know "Use only fluids approved..."
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  #32  
Old 01-01-2013, 05:53 PM
RBinDC RBinDC is offline
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DOT 4 brake fluid Redux

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondo402000 View Post
guess I will just get more BMW brand fluid
Hi boys and girls,

It's been awhile since I posted so I just want to wish everyone a Happy New Year.

Also, I have a followup question. I'm going in for my 2 year maintenance tomorrow and am thinking of asking the dealer to upgrade my brake fluid to something with a higher boiling point that the BMW Dot 4, e.g., ATE Type 200. I am wondering what alternatives the dealer can offer.

Anyone know what BMW puts in the M3s?
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  #33  
Old 01-03-2013, 02:53 PM
RBinDC RBinDC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBinDC View Post
Hi boys and girls,

It's been awhile since I posted so I just want to wish everyone a Happy New Year.

Also, I have a followup question. I'm going in for my 2 year maintenance tomorrow and am thinking of asking the dealer to upgrade my brake fluid to something with a higher boiling point that the BMW Dot 4, e.g., ATE Type 200. I am wondering what alternatives the dealer can offer.

Anyone know what BMW puts in the M3s?
Answering my own question. BMW uses the same brake fluid in the M3 as in the 3 series (and probably every other BMW). It is a DOT 4 fluid manufactured in the US for BMW so I have no idea what it is. The SA told me BMW will void your warrantee if you use any other brake fluid so I went with the stuff.

My understanding is that the BMW fluid's boiling point is about 100 degree F lower than ATE Type 200, which is probably irrelevant for street use but not if you track your car. All DOT 4 fluids are not created equal.
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  #34  
Old 01-03-2013, 07:33 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Location: New Hampshire
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Mein Auto: 335i E92 TiAg 6MT ED
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBinDC View Post
Answering my own question. BMW uses the same brake fluid in the M3 as in the 3 series (and probably every other BMW). It is a DOT 4 fluid manufactured in the US for BMW so I have no idea what it is. The SA told me BMW will void your warrantee if you use any other brake fluid so I went with the stuff.

My understanding is that the BMW fluid's boiling point is about 100 degree F lower than ATE Type 200, which is probably irrelevant for street use but not if you track your car. All DOT 4 fluids are not created equal.
True, both the bp and the viscosity can differ significantly. Some of the better DOT 4's state that their viscosity is good enough for fast reacting DSC pumps, others don't. Also, I've noticed varying boiling points mentioned, but don't recall the specifics. I use Pentosin in my 335 which has never had a track day braking problem even though at one timeI was probably the worst abuser of brakes out there. An old story; I had an instructor go out with me for tips on a series of turns I was having trouble with. He said racing was like a dance, and that I was doing a dance. The problem is that I was doing a tango and should have been doing a waltz. I started braking much more smoothly after that.
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