What is Bar's or Rislone Stop Leak or Head Gasket Fix and what does it do in your E39

Q: What is in the Bar's Stop Leak product and what will it actually do in an E39 that overheated?
Normally we have a canonical thread for what every common fluid does in the E39, but today, while trying to help someone with a head-gasket/cooling-system/cracked head leak, I typed /bars leak F3 and /rislone F3 into the bestlinks and was surprised to find nothing listed:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Internal leak

So, I simply start this new thread to flesh out what is it that is being suggested by many when they say to use "bars leak" or "bars stop leak" to solve BMW E39 overheated-related leaks.

The first task was to see what the Bar's Leak web site recommended, but I was immediately sorry I went there because the confusing plethora of products sold under that brand (and under the Rislone brand) is almost overwhelming. So I called Bar's Leak technical support at 800-345-6572 and asked what I should use if I had a BMW E39 with one or more of these common problems:

1. Cooling system leaks
2. Head gasket leaks
3. Cylinder head leaks

The technician immediately asked two questions:

1. What is leaking (i.e., oil or coolant)?
2. How long does it take the engine to overheat (i.e., before or after 20 minutes)?

The technician said that if it's oil leaking, they have no product for that - but if it's leaking coolant, and if the engine overheated in less than 20 minutes, the product suggested was the $60/liter HG-1 Bar's Head Gasket & Cooling Sealant, but he said that was a three-day involved process of repair.

I said the engine overheated in greater than 20 minutes (which I assume would be a typical E39 situation in the future), for which he suggested the $30/24oz 1111 Bar's Leak Head Gasket Fix, which he said handles all three leaks (cooling system, head gasket, & cylinder head).

When I asked why so many products, he said each will attack a different area (e.g., some attack radiator leaks). Since an E39 owner with a radiator leak would likely simply replace the radiator, I concentrated my technical support call on the more insidious hard-to-find coolant leaks nearer to the engine itself.

Given they have scores of products, let's limit this discussion, for now anyway, to the following refined question:
Q: What is in the PN 1111 Bar's Leak Head Gasket Fix and what does it do in an E39?



EDIT: I added the technical datasheet and the material safety data sheet below.

The Bar's MSDS says product 1111 Bar's Leak Head Gasket Fix is composed of:
- Sodium Silicate (Liquid Glass) CAS NUMBER 1344-09-8

Googling for those keywords, I immediately find plenty of references, as it's a very common chemical ... so I simply start with this:
- Wikipedia Sodium Silicate Na₂SiO₃

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Sodium silicate can be used to fill gaps within the head gasket. Commonly used on aluminum alloy cylinder head, which are sensitive to thermally induced surface deflection, and can be caused by many things including head-bolt stretching, deficient coolant delivery, high cylinder head pressure, over-heating, vapor-lock, etc.
"Liquid glass" (sodium silicate) is added to the system through the radiator, and allowed to circulate. Sodium silicate is suspended in the coolant until it reaches the cylinder head. At 100–105 °C sodium silicate loses water molecules to form a glass seal with a re-melt temperature above 810 °C.
A sodium silicate repair will last two years, sometimes longer. The repair occurs rapidly, and symptoms disappear instantly. This repair only works when the sodium silicate reaches its "conversion" temperature at 100–105 °C. Contamination of engine oil is a serious possibility in situations in which a coolant-to-oil leak is present. Sodium silicate (glass particulate) contamination of lubricants is detrimental to their function.

Trying to keep this related to typical E39 overheating repairs, it would seem imperative, based on what was said above, that the user determine ahead of time whether or not the oil was being contaminated by the leaking coolant. If so, then this isn't the product for the user.

Doing an E39-only bimmerfest-only search is a bit difficult due to the common search terms, but I found this, which is perhaps the best existing BMW E39 thread for reference:
- Bars Leaks experiences: success or failure? (by bobdmac)

These other threads offer brief anecdotal information on bars leak efficacy:
- Radiator leak fixed for $3 dealer wanted 1500
- Cracked head/blown gasket!!!!
- 528 - overheating. Again!?!
- head gasket repair
- Cracked head/blown gasket!!!!
- Alternative Cooling Components
- Buying used E39 - Ever overheated?
- Ok guys i know we can solve this one!
- Bad Compression problem
etc.

For the record, the bars leak was suggested in this E46 thread today:

Originally Posted by scarede46er

If the head gasket is gone, it is an expensive repair anyway. I would get a bottle of bar's leak head gasket product and keep it in the trunk along with a gallon of 50/50 coolant in the trunk just in case. Chances are the car is OK. But if not, you can possibly use the product to make it home and then have a mechanic fix it.

don't ever use that on a BMW or any other Euro car. holy crap. fix it right.

we had a lady bring in her BMW to a dealer I worked at. She had stuck that crap in there. When we pulled apart the car to replace her engine because it had been cooked. The radiator was plugged with that crap. All in an effort to keep from having to change out a leaking coolant reservoir.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=663189


Blue, this my thread from personal experience in M52 328i. I tried blue devil since the engine was toast anyway, and had some from draining it sitting in a pan for 3 Weeks and it turned to gel, check out the video I had. Also found it crystallizing in various cooling passages when we pulled the old block.

I can't ever recommend using one of those products based on my experience.



Sent from my LG Revolution 4G using BimmerApp

Originally Posted by sawtooth4x4

don't ever use that on a BMW or any other Euro car. holy crap. fix it right.

we had a lady bring in her BMW to a dealer I worked at. She had stuck that crap in there. When we pulled apart the car to replace her engine because it had been cooked. The radiator was plugged with that crap. All in an effort to keep from having to change out a leaking coolant reservoir.

Quite clearly, she had not used a silicate-free product. Silicate free / coolant friendly products are coolant friendly, and do not really sediment out and clog things up when they come into contact with existing antifreeze in the cooling system.

The coolant friendly products seem to be at least twice as expensive as the coolant unfriendly products. The coolant unfriendly products require you to first flush your radiator, use the product, flush it again, then fill with antifreeze finally, so the cost amounts to the same or higher overall and certainly alot more time and potential for mischief is involved.

However, we found K-seal being sold on Ebay for under $20, have been using it in a radiator for 1 month with no issues of any sort in a car that is driven daily. Unfortunately, it did not fix the targeted problem, which we now feel to be unrelated to the HG or cylinder head.

I used the head gasket fix on my 2002 nissan sentra se-r. It did work. But.... it also froze my rad cap in the closed position. Had to get a new one. All in all.... it worked.

I have seen the Bars HG3 kit used in a 97 530i that had a blown head gasket. When the cooling system was pressurized coolant was getting in the #3 cylinder. The Bars stopped the leak and he has been driving it for several months now. How long it will last who knows but worth a shot on an older car. I'll let you know if he has an problems.

I had a small leak around the two O rings on my 99 528i. I used the basic Bars Leak you get at Walmart.
I called Bars and talked to one of the engineers. GM and Chrysler used this stuff in the 50's and 60's on
every car that rolled off of the assembly line. They still use it today in pill form. I put it in about 4 months ago
have had no leaks and no issues.

Originally Posted by lsrguy98

I had a small leak around the two O rings

Wow. If I had a leak on an easily gotten to o-ring, I'd replace the o-ring.
- What is the complete list of o-rings to order for routine oil change maintenance tasks (1)

But, it's good to know anecdotally, whether the bars leak works or not - so thanks for the input.

The price of the O rings weren't the problem they were only $2-3. The problem was getting to them was $350-$400 in labor and with 178K miles I thought I'd go ahead and do it. The Bars Leak is liquid enough to pass through the average size screen hole. Again, I've had no problems.

i've been praying someone has experience using such product for the heater core. in this winter, driving my bmw is a miserable experience. either you drive and freeze(dont use heater) or you smell the nasty oolant(but stay warm). its such a minor drip/leak the carpet never gets wet.

I initially did smell this stuff when I put it in. It lasted about 2 days and then the smell went away. Not sure where it was coming from. Normally I would just fix the problem but with the miles I have on this car 178K I went ahead and used it. I also talked to the engineers at the company and he answered the questions I had. I'm not saying you should use this stuff but it seems to have worked for me so just telling you my experience.

Also, keep in mind I did not use the head gasket fix but the basic one PLT11.

After reading this thread, I put some in my 540i last night. I spent the entire weekend looking for the leak. I am convinced it is a slow gasket leak. So far, no more leak. I will update in a few days.

Yes, let me know how it works. I did mine about a month ago and no leaks and no overheating.

So far, one (1) day down and no problems. Car runs fine with no overheating.

It has been almost two (2) weeks and still no coolant leak. After running Test 09, my engine read 106-108F on the road. It spiked at 110F while idling, but only once and not again. So far, things look good.

I personaly have the 1111 in my car at the moment due to a bad head gasket leaking into the rear cylinder. I usually do not prefer to use such products, but due to haveing an extra engine and winter starting with no place to work on the car i tried it. Has been in the engine for three months now with no coolant loss. Heater still funtions properly, and still have adequate coolant flow. I did not put this in the resevoir. I removed the upper radiator hose at the radiator and poured the entire bottle into the hose ad reattached it. I then ran the car for twenty minutes, turned it off and let it cool. So from my experience the 1111 works it may not be anyones prefered method of repair, but will suffice until a better repair can be made.

I don't normally use such products either except for my 1965 Dodge Dart. I normally just fix the problem. I did talk to a few of my friends who had used it and they had no problems. My brother who's a mechanic recommended not using it but he's a purist like most mechanics. I also factored in the fact that my Bimmer has 176K miles and is 13 years old. This 528's engine purrs like a kitten and is so much fun to drive. I'll find a way to keep it running forever. As a matter of fact I'm going to by another engine, M52 I think, and slowly rebuild it so that when this one craps out I'll switch them out. Crazy?????