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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 12-11-2012, 09:46 AM
todaro84 todaro84 is offline
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Help with 328i Lease

Hello Everyone,

Been doing a lot of research on this site and its been helpful. I am in the negotiating stage of the following 328i

Premium Pkg
Lighting Pkg
Navigation (option only)
Heated Seats
Drk Walnut trim

bmwconfig has invoice price of $41,160 and deal is at $42,500 at the moment. Looking to lease and have attached the screen print from the dealer. Getting hit on the high end of the Acq/Doc and MF at the moment and need some advice how to get him to come down.

Also, I inquired about MSD and he indicated that i would get a 00.49 reduction for 7 security deposits. Not sure its worth it at that point but would like to get some feedback in terms of how to approach. Thanks everyone.
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  #2  
Old 12-11-2012, 09:57 AM
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Your dealer padded acquisition fee by $200, now where did $3000 in rebates go ($1000 cash, $2000 rebate)? Am I missing something here?
Not sure what is normal in terms of gov't/doc fees in AZ, as well as the tax rate for AZ.
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  #3  
Old 12-11-2012, 09:59 AM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
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Doc fee is ridiculously high. It is a max of $80 in California. Acq fee has been raised 200 bucks. You are 1,100 over invoice and they bumped the money factor up the max amount of .0004

That dealer has lots of ways to go to make it a good deal for you. The best way to get him to go down is say forget it and go to someone else.

Hell, you are not far way from california where there are at least 3 board sponsors which would give you a much better deal with your eyes closed and the drive to LA area is not a bad one. Train out and drive back. It would be worth it to save a couple thousand.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeycmonkeydo View Post
doc fee is ridiculously high. It is a max of $80 in california. Acq fee has been raised 200 bucks. You are 1,100 over invoice and they bumped the money factor up the max amount of .0004

that dealer has lots of ways to go to make it a good deal for you. The best way to get him to go down is say forget it and go to someone else.

Hell, you are not far way from california where there are at least 3 board sponsors which would give you a much better deal with your eyes closed and the drive to la area is not a bad one. Train out and drive back. It would be worth it to save a couple thousand.
+1000
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  #5  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:05 AM
todaro84 todaro84 is offline
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Yes I thought he might be screwing me a bit. $2000 rebate is ($1000 holiday and $1000 USAA) and $1000 cash out of pocket. I am going to see if he can come down $1000 on price, MF down to 1.3-1.4, lower acquisition and lower doc fee.
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  #6  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:19 AM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
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This would be my suggestion. $500 over invoice, $925 for acq fee and +.0001 on money factor. That will create an average of 1k profit overall for the dealership which they should accept without issue. By spreading it among the three aspects the F&I person, the dealership and the CA all are making a piece of the pie. The only issue is the doc fee which in my opinion should never be over $100 bucks.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:21 AM
todaro84 todaro84 is offline
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So you are saying give them the $925 acq fee and try to get them to come down to $41,600-$41,700 and MF of .0014?
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:39 AM
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MSDs are always "worth it" if you have the cash available, rather than putting money down. Using seven MSDs lowers the interest rate by 1.176% (7 x 0.00007 = 0.00049 x 2400 =1.176%) and those figures are set, not subject to dealer manipulation.

The effective rate of return compared to some type of savings account is usually between 7% - 10%, it varies depending on the specifics of each deal.

btw - the amount of the security deposits is based on the lease payment taking into account the lower MF/interest rate. So, if with only one security deposit the amount is $500, with 7 security deposits the amount of each security deposit might be only $450.

MSDs are not affected if the car should be totalled during the lease. You get the entire amount back. Down payments directly reduce the lease payoff/balance and directly shift the risk of loss onto you rather than the GAP insurance. You would lose all of your down payment (unless you made a very large, several thousand dollar down payment, in which case you might get some back, depending on how much the insurance paid).
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Last edited by tturedraider; 12-11-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo View Post
This would be my suggestion. $500 over invoice, $925 for acq fee and +.0001 on money factor. That will create an average of 1k profit overall for the dealership which they should accept without issue. By spreading it among the three aspects the F&I person, the dealership and the CA all are making a piece of the pie. The only issue is the doc fee which in my opinion should never be over $100 bucks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by todaro84 View Post
So you are saying give them the $925 acq fee and try to get them to come down to $41,600-$41,700 and MF of .0014?
A lot of times it is easier on a lease to get them to give on the price than on the acquisition fee and/or the MF. This gives them the opportunity to show making some money on both sides of the deal. It can be very important to the finance guy to make money on the deal, just as on the sales side.

I think this is a good suggestion.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 12-11-2012 at 10:46 AM.
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:51 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todaro84 View Post
Hello Everyone,

Been doing a lot of research on this site and its been helpful. I am in the negotiating stage of the following 328i

Premium Pkg
Lighting Pkg
Navigation (option only)
Heated Seats
Drk Walnut trim

bmwconfig has invoice price of $41,160 and deal is at $42,500 at the moment. Looking to lease and have attached the screen print from the dealer. Getting hit on the high end of the Acq/Doc and MF at the moment and need some advice how to get him to come down.

Also, I inquired about MSD and he indicated that i would get a 00.49 reduction for 7 security deposits. Not sure its worth it at that point but would like to get some feedback in terms of how to approach. Thanks everyone.
Even though it is Scottsdale, where haggling over a thousand or two bucks is petty, you are getting ripped off many different ways. My understanding from reading these boards is that invoice + $500 to $1000 is the norm then subtract incentives.

Also your money factor is marked up by roughly a third to a half. Base money factor is 00130. THEN you subtract MSDS. Acquisition has been jacked, doc fee has been jacked.

This is a deal I wouldn't even negotiate off of. I would just pick up my stuff and walk out without saying a word.

Last edited by pony_trekker; 12-11-2012 at 10:54 AM.
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  #11  
Old 12-11-2012, 11:11 AM
cchrisv cchrisv is offline
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I just bought my 335 @ invoice if I include their processing fee and the black grill they put on the car. I bought the car for $600 below invoice. They doc fee is $400 and the gril was $180 so almost at invoice. I did not pay any markup on any fees or the MF. You can do much better than this deal. The 500 - 1000 over invoice norm you hear on these forums is the average deal, but you can do much better easily.

I did max MSDs which reduced my monthly payments by about $40.
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Last edited by cchrisv; 12-11-2012 at 11:12 AM.
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2012, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cchrisv View Post
I just bought my 335 @ invoice if I include their processing fee and the black grill they put on the car. I bought the car for $600 below invoice. They doc fee is $400 and the gril was $180 so almost at invoice. I did not pay any markup on any fees or the MF. You can do much better than this deal. The 500 - 1000 over invoice norm you hear on these forums is the average deal, but you can do much better easily.

I did max MSDs which reduced my monthly payments by about $40.
The odds of getting the deal you describe without there being a manufacturer to dealer incentive which was not disclosed to you (and is not required to be disclosed) are virtually nil.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 12-11-2012 at 11:30 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2012, 12:06 PM
todaro84 todaro84 is offline
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I shot an email back looking for $41,600 w/ 0.0013 or right around there, a reduced acq fee and reduced doc fee. We will see what they say, thanks for the help guys.
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  #14  
Old 12-11-2012, 12:27 PM
todaro84 todaro84 is offline
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Dealer shot back indicating the invoice on the car is $41,700 (including the MACO/Training) and said $42,500 is less than a grand over. He would shave the MF down to 0.0015 but cant do much on the acquisition or doc fee. Brings payment down to $540/month ($508 with 7 MSD) w/ $1000 down (+ $3000 for the MSD).
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  #15  
Old 12-11-2012, 12:40 PM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todaro84 View Post
Dealer shot back indicating the invoice on the car is $41,700 (including the MACO/Training) and said $42,500 is less than a grand over. He would shave the MF down to 0.0015 but cant do much on the acquisition or doc fee. Brings payment down to $540/month ($508 with 7 MSD) w/ $1000 down (+ $3000 for the MSD).
Dont take it. He is still screwing you. MACO and such could be the case but stick to your guns on this. $42,200 for price then and either doc fee drops to $100 or he takes Acq fee down to standard 725. Just flat out tell him he cant have both if he wants your business.

Remember you are the one with the power, not him.

And remember you are shooting for a total of 1k over, spread over all the elements. So right now he wants you at $800 +200 +500 +300 = $1800 over approx. So you need another 700 off somewhere. And since he looks like he doesnt mind giving you the shaft really double check how he puts all those incentives in. They should appear AFTER cap cost and before adjusted cap cost. The $42,200 price needs to be the cap cost, and $39,200 would be adjusted cap cost. Keep your acq fee in the drive off amount with tax title and registration. No need paying interest on that as well.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todaro84 View Post
Dealer shot back indicating the invoice on the car is $41,700 (including the MACO/Training) and said $42,500 is less than a grand over. He would shave the MF down to 0.0015 but cant do much on the acquisition or doc fee. Brings payment down to $540/month ($508 with 7 MSD) w/ $1000 down (+ $3000 for the MSD).
If they can't do better, I am pretty sure some sponsors here can.
I thought MACO/Training Fee was only extracted on ED cars, am I wrong?
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:42 PM
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i wonder can MSD's be charged on credit card?
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:42 PM
cchrisv cchrisv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todaro84 View Post
Dealer shot back indicating the invoice on the car is $41,700 (including the MACO/Training) and said $42,500 is less than a grand over. He would shave the MF down to 0.0015 but cant do much on the acquisition or doc fee. Brings payment down to $540/month ($508 with 7 MSD) w/ $1000 down (+ $3000 for the MSD).
I would shop around more. You should not have to pay a markup on any of those fees. A near $500 document fee is crazy especially when they are selling the car to you at $800-900 over invoice plus $200 marked up fees. You CAN do better. They are making a ton of profit on this deal.

FYI: If your payment is $540 you would owe them $3850 for the MSDs not $3000.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:43 PM
cchrisv cchrisv is offline
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i wonder can MSD's be charged on credit card?
Yes they can
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:45 PM
cchrisv cchrisv is offline
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Originally Posted by lqaddict View Post
If they can't do better, I am pretty sure some sponsors here can.
I thought MACO/Training Fee was only extracted on ED cars, am I wrong?
You are wrong. Maco and Training Fees are charged on US cars, but not ED cars.
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  #21  
Old 12-11-2012, 12:51 PM
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Except for maybe $50 the doc fee is pure profit. It is very high, but it is probably virtually universal among the dealers. Florida also has really exorbitant dealer fees. This tends to be the case in states where they are not regulated and dealers tend to be pretty inflexible with them. My sense is they fear being legally challenged on them, so they apply them universally.

If you know how to calculate the lease payment accurately, then my suggestion at this point is to take the sales price you want, the down payment and incentives, the MF and acquisition fee you'll accept and calculate the payment. Then tell the dealer/CA that is the payment you want with $X out of pocket and they can arrange the sales numbers, mf, and acquisition fee however they want to get to that number. Be sure to include the MSDs in your calculations if you're going to use them.

btw - with your numbers, $508 payment/deposit and $32 monthly payment savings - $3,556 in MSDs and $384 in annual payment savings that equates to a 10.8% return on investment for your MSDs.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by monkeycmonkeydo View Post
dont take it. He is still screwing you. Maco and such could be the case but stick to your guns on this. $42,200 for price then and either doc fee drops to $100 or he takes acq fee down to standard 725. Just flat out tell him he cant have both if he wants your business.

Remember you are the one with the power, not him.

And remember you are shooting for a total of 1k over, spread over all the elements. So right now he wants you at $800 +200 +500 +300 = $1800 over approx. So you need another 700 off somewhere. And since he looks like he doesnt mind giving you the shaft really double check how he puts all those incentives in. They should appear after cap cost and before adjusted cap cost. The $42,200 price needs to be the cap cost, and $39,200 would be adjusted cap cost. Keep your acq fee in the drive off amount with tax title and registration. No need paying interest on that as well.
+1
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2004 330i ZHP Imola/NB - missed
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by dpwr View Post
i wonder can MSD's be charged on credit card?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchrisv View Post
Yes they can
It's entirely up to the dealer. Some may say yes, some no. Some may do it with no extra charge, some may charge for the transaction fee they have to pay.
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2004 330i ZHP Imola/NB - missed
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  #24  
Old 12-11-2012, 12:58 PM
cchrisv cchrisv is offline
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Except for maybe $50 the doc fee is pure profit. It is very high, but it is probably virtually universal among the dealers. Florida has really exorbitant dealer fees. This tends to be the case in states where they are not regulated and dealers tend to be pretty inflexible with them. My sense is they fear being legally challenged on the, so they apply them universally.

If you know how to calculate the lease payment accurately, then my suggestion at this point is to take the sales price you want, the down payment and incentives, the MF and acquisition fee you'll accept and calculate the payment. The tell the dealer/CA that is the payment you want with $X out of pocket and they can arrange the sales numbers, mg, and acquisition fee however they want to get to that number. Be sure to include the MSDs in your calculations if you're going to use them.

btw - with your numbers, $508 payment/deposit and $32 monthly payment savings - $3,556 in MSDs and $384 in annual payment savings that equates to a 10.8% return on investment for your MSDs.
MSDs are rounded to the next $50. So it would be $550 x 7 not $508 x 7.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:00 PM
cchrisv cchrisv is offline
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It's entirely up to the dealer. Some may say yes, some no. Some may do it with no extra charge, some may charge for the transaction fee they have to pay.
Find a dealership that will work with you. How consumers are okay with the dealership deciding stuff like that or charging a fee is beyond me. I put my MSDs on a 0% card that I will pay off next billing cycle (I'm letting it run so I can get my points! Yay for $500 statement credit in points)
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