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E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 12-09-2012, 12:10 PM
marty505 marty505 is offline
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Mein Auto: 99 Z3 M Coupe/99 540i
Clutch height adjustment

When I got the car (99 M Coupe) 18 mo. ago I thought the friction point of the clutch was a bit closer to the floor than it should be, 1-1.5 in. off the floor. I attributed this to clutch wear as 60-70K is a fairly typical life for a clutch in these cars. I replaced the clutch (pressure plate, friction disk, pivot arm, pivot pin, throw out bearing, and bearing collar) and sure enough the original friction disk was at the lower wear limit. I left the master cylinder and slave cylinder alone since there was no sign of leakage, bleed-back or pressure loss. The new clutch worked just fine but the friction point did not change. I have back-bled the clutch by removing the slave cylinder and pushing the rod all the way back by hand and I have fully bled the clutch through the bleeder on the slave cylinder. I bled over 4 oz. of fluid through the clutch circuit so I'm reasonably certain there is no air in the system. The clutch feels good and works fine but the friction point remains at 1.5 in. off the floor. So is this normal? Is there a way to bring this up a little higher?
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  #2  
Old 12-09-2012, 12:44 PM
Ron Stygar's Avatar
Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marty505 View Post
When I got the car (99 M Coupe) 18 mo. ago I thought the friction point of the clutch was a bit closer to the floor than it should be, 1-1.5 in. off the floor. I attributed this to clutch wear as 60-70K is a fairly typical life for a clutch in these cars. I replaced the clutch (pressure plate, friction disk, pivot arm, pivot pin, throw out bearing, and bearing collar) and sure enough the original friction disk was at the lower wear limit. I left the master cylinder and slave cylinder alone since there was no sign of leakage, bleed-back or pressure loss. The new clutch worked just fine but the friction point did not change. I have back-bled the clutch by removing the slave cylinder and pushing the rod all the way back by hand and I have fully bled the clutch through the bleeder on the slave cylinder. I bled over 4 oz. of fluid through the clutch circuit so I'm reasonably certain there is no air in the system. The clutch feels good and works fine but the friction point remains at 1.5 in. off the floor. So is this normal? Is there a way to bring this up a little higher?
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/pedalspec-1.jpg

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/pedalspec-2.jpg

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/pedalspec-3.jpg
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  #3  
Old 12-09-2012, 12:50 PM
Ron Stygar's Avatar
Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
19,585 Miles
Location: CT
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 11,143
Mein Auto: Z4 M Coupe 6LL93033
Quote:
Originally Posted by marty505 View Post
When I got the car (99 M Coupe) 18 mo. ago I thought the friction point of the clutch was a bit closer to the floor than it should be, 1-1.5 in. off the floor. I attributed this to clutch wear as 60-70K is a fairly typical life for a clutch in these cars. I replaced the clutch (pressure plate, friction disk, pivot arm, pivot pin, throw out bearing, and bearing collar) and sure enough the original friction disk was at the lower wear limit. I left the master cylinder and slave cylinder alone since there was no sign of leakage, bleed-back or pressure loss. The new clutch worked just fine but the friction point did not change. I have back-bled the clutch by removing the slave cylinder and pushing the rod all the way back by hand and I have fully bled the clutch through the bleeder on the slave cylinder. I bled over 4 oz. of fluid through the clutch circuit so I'm reasonably certain there is no air in the system. The clutch feels good and works fine but the friction point remains at 1.5 in. off the floor. So is this normal? Is there a way to bring this up a little higher?
See clutch bleed:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=38
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  #4  
Old 12-09-2012, 01:11 PM
marty505 marty505 is offline
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Thanks for the info Ron. Did bleeding raise your friction point?
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  #5  
Old 12-09-2012, 06:12 PM
Ron Stygar's Avatar
Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Originally Posted by marty505 View Post
Thanks for the info Ron. Did bleeding raise your friction point?
Yes.
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  #6  
Old 12-09-2012, 06:16 PM
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Bimmer1995318ti Bimmer1995318ti is offline
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If bleeding doesn't do it I'm gonna have to say it was designed this way for faster shifting, if you've eve been in a lotus or other high performance vehicle it's the same way, shaves off milliseconds in shift time, which matters a lot, not in track time but holds your sustained torque throughout a shift better ! Good luck mate !
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2012, 07:18 PM
marty505 marty505 is offline
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This may indeed be by design for faster shifts; years ago I had an E24 M that had an adjustable stop behind the pedal for just this purpose. I'd prefer to move the friction point up a little to minimize synchro wear. I'll fiddle with the bleeding some more but I'm not real hopeful since the 4+ oz. that have been bled through it so far greatly exceeds the capacity of the system. I've ordered a stainless wrapped hydraulic line from UUC to replace the stock rubber hose and it has the added benefit of eliminating the CDV (something I've wanted to do for a while). Some folks on the M3 board have reported this brought up their friction point. Replacing the hose is also a good time to do another full bleed. I don't want a lot, another half inch or so would do the trick.
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  #8  
Old 12-10-2012, 06:44 AM
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Pinecone Pinecone is offline
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If you search, you will find that the SS lines use end connectors that actually work the same as the CDV. You need a certain hose off one of the non-M Z3 cars.
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  #9  
Old 12-10-2012, 04:43 PM
marty505 marty505 is offline
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Well that sucks. I'll look over the hose very closely before I put it in.
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2012, 05:49 PM
marty505 marty505 is offline
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Woo Hoo! The new clutch hydraulic line from UUC arrived today and close inspection reveals that is just a high quality hydraulic line with no restrictions or valves which means no more CDV. Pinecone had me worried there. Cold crappy weather this weekend so I'll just spend my time in the nice warm garage installing this sucker and bleeding the system to see if I can get the friction point to come up a bit higher.
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  #11  
Old 12-14-2012, 06:14 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Hose

Quote:
Originally Posted by marty505 View Post
Woo Hoo! The new clutch hydraulic line from UUC arrived today and close inspection reveals that is just a high quality hydraulic line with no restrictions or valves which means no more CDV. Pinecone had me worried there. Cold crappy weather this weekend so I'll just spend my time in the nice warm garage installing this sucker and bleeding the system to see if I can get the friction point to come up a bit higher.
Made a mistake.
Use what hose Pine said.

http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthr...ht=clutch+hose

See page 2 with:

#54 for hose showing the end of the part at end 766.
and see shows in
#69
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Last edited by Ron Stygar; 12-14-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2012, 05:34 PM
marty505 marty505 is offline
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It's all good now

Put the new clutch line in today and I'm very happy with the results. The friction point is at least 1/2" higher and the feel of the clutch is good, more precise on engagement. Shifting is improved, especially from 1-2 and 2-3. The notchy feel (is that a real word?) is gone, it's now smooth. The lack of a CDV may be part of this. I didn't find a discreet CDV when I took it apart but the orifice on one end of the original line was much smaller and may have served this purpose. I took a picture of it compared to the new line but it's hard to see. Trust me though, it's 1/2 the size. The new hose is a much smaller diameter and slightly longer than the stock hose. The installed fit is just fine. It took me a minute to figure out that the hard line and bracket were no longer needed, just remove the hard line and bracket from the slave cylinder and install the adapter fitting that comes with the new hose. At that point everything hooks up just fine. Since bleeding was required I decided to change out all the brake fluid and bleed out to all the wheel cylinders too. What the heck, I'm under the car with a 7mm and a bleeder hose, might as well do it all. So in addition to fixing up the clutch I replaced all the brake fluid too, not a bad day wrenching at all.
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  #13  
Old 12-16-2012, 04:08 PM
marty505 marty505 is offline
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Mein Auto: 99 Z3 M Coupe/99 540i
Got a chance to drive the car more today, lots of stop and go city traffic so the clutch got a workout. What a difference! The additional height is nice but the biggest difference is the feel and response of the clutch. The restrictor built into the original clutch line really messed it up, the shift from 1-2 always felt jerky before, now it's smooth as can be. Upshifts, downshifts, it's all much better now. If you've got a CDV or a restrictor built into you clutch line I highly recommend you get rid of it. This was the best $40 I've spent on the car by far.
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  #14  
Old 12-17-2012, 05:40 AM
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Pinecone Pinecone is offline
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The BMW line that Ron mentions has less of a restriction than the SS line does.
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  #15  
Old 12-17-2012, 05:21 PM
marty505 marty505 is offline
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Great! Put it on your car. I'm happy with my set-up, the fit and quality of the SS line is first rate. Removing the restriction in the stock line is what counts. Once the flow rate through the system allows the slave cylinder to keep up with the master cylinder additional capacity adds no benefit.
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