So is the general feeling that you shouldn't own a BMW out of warranty?

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

Well you live in the OC so sure that makes sense. There are a few of them in my neck of the woods as well (Palm Beach), but BMW's and Benz still rule the road around here. The thing that kills me is that most of the Panny's I see are the base model with zero options like your typical 528i. But for the 80k those base Panny's cost you can get a much nicer BMW or Benz. The Panny is not a car I want unless it is a 4S or GTS and, at that point, we are at 110-120k.

That's why I find it so interesting that the Panamera is hands down the current high status car around here. Porsche before the Panny had a very low market share here against MB and BMW.

Looking into things this a.m., I'm now very interested in say a 2007 911, maybe with a 997.2.

[QUOTE=Alpine300ZHP;7241193]

Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo

I think it is the cheaper thing that becomes the issue. The extra cost of maintaining a BMW is ridiculous. When I needed to save money for 10 years I owned a 1999 Ford ZX2 that Consumer reports declared the most reliable vehicle under 10k. In 10 years of ownership I maybe spent 3k on repairs and maintenance. If you are spending 1500 a year on average on the old used car that seems like way too much. In my mind if you dont mind driving a 10 year old car then you shouldnt mind getting one that is cheaper to repair and needs repairs less often.

If 1500-3k means nothing per year, then why the hell are you driving a 10 year old car?[/QUOTE]

Because it is still much less than the 6-8k you and everyone else is spending on yearly lease payments.

Yes but if you dont mind driving a 10 year old car, get something that costs you on average 300 bucks a year in repairs and maintenance. Whether you pull up in a 99 corolla or a 99 bmw people are gonna think its a POS. Might as well save 1200-2700 bucks a year.

Dont get me wrong, I am all for being frugal when you need to be frugal. I did it for 10 years. And it allowed me to finally get to a point in my life when I could afford the new car smell with all the bells and whistles. I just think if you are spending more than a 1k a year in repairs...you should start looking at a new vehicle. (obviously those with rolls, ferraris, lambos etc are excluded as an oil change could cost close to that )

[QUOTE=MonkeyCMonkeyDo;7241254]

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

Yes but if you dont mind driving a 10 year old car, get something that costs you on average 300 bucks a year in repairs and maintenance. Whether you pull up in a 99 corolla or a 99 bmw people are gonna think its a POS. Might as well save 1200-2700 bucks a year.

Dont get me wrong, I am all for being frugal when you need to be frugal. I did it for 10 years. And it allowed me to finally get to a point in my life when I could afford the new car smell with all the bells and whistles. I just think if you are spending more than a 1k a year in repairs...you should start looking at a new vehicle. (obviously those with rolls, ferraris, lambos etc are excluded as an oil change could cost close to that )

When out driving around this weekend, I was thinking that the E46 still looks great. They definitely don't look like a POS to me.

[QUOTE=beden1;7241290]

Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo

When out driving around this weekend, I was thinking that the E46 still looks great. They definitely don't look like a POS to me.

Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo

I think it is the cheaper thing that becomes the issue. The extra cost of maintaining a BMW is ridiculous. When I needed to save money for 10 years I owned a 1999 Ford ZX2 that Consumer reports declared the most reliable vehicle under 10k. In 10 years of ownership I maybe spent 3k on repairs and maintenance. If you are spending 1500 a year on average on the old used car that seems like way too much. In my mind if you dont mind driving a 10 year old car then you shouldnt mind getting one that is cheaper to repair and needs repairs less often.

If 1500-3k means nothing per year, then why the hell are you driving a 10 year old car?

I wouldn't drive a ZX2, new or old, but driving an old ZHP is pure pleasure, that's why we do it. They give me brand new 3 series loaners when I go in for service. They're super nice, but I'm always glad to get my car back.

Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo

Whether you pull up in a 99 corolla or a 99 bmw people are gonna think its a POS.

That's completely wrong. My wife gets all kinds of comments at work about marrying some rich guy, cause they see me pick her up in an 8 year old 3 series. Try that in a Corolla. People have no clue what year your car is, they just see the badge. It's stupid and annoying, but that's how people are outside BMW forums.

Originally Posted by Chris90

That's completely wrong. My wife gets all kinds of comments at work about marrying some rich guy, cause they see me pick her up in an 8 year old 3 series. Try that in a Corolla. People have no clue what year your car is, they just see the badge. It's stupid and annoying, but that's how people are outside BMW forums.

I think generally if you keep the paint nice its different things.

if you had say a really really great condition E36 , its like a really great classic type car and it gets props.

if you have a really great condition say E90 2006 325i, which is 7 years old, it looks exactly like a 1 year old E90, so people think you are a baller in a pretty recent 3 series (since BMW does 7 years unlike the 5 or less other cars are).

if you have a 1998 corolla in perfect condition no one cares. if you have a 1998 LExus ES in great condition ITS STILL AN ANCIENT LEXUS ES

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

Not going to be condescending as its Christmas and my daughter's Elf On The Shelf is watching.

Answer these three questions:

1. How much of a monthly payment can you afford comfortably?

2. Is your job upwardly mobile during the next 6 years?

3. Is self-respect and a successful outlook important to you?

BJ

1) Comfortably? $600. Psychologically? Idk, I've not had a car payment in close to a decade.

2) Nope

3) I'm going to go with yes. In my next car fun factor and manual tranny are important. My accord is a bit boring even though it's a V6. Brand name isn't a big deal to me. The other car I'm looking at is a BRZ and I'm patiently awaiting the WRX redesign.

Originally Posted by Chris90

That's completely wrong. My wife gets all kinds of comments at work about marrying some rich guy, cause they see me pick her up in an 8 year old 3 series. Try that in a Corolla. People have no clue what year your car is, they just see the badge. It's stupid and annoying, but that's how people are outside BMW forums.

8 yr old bimmer is still an e90 body style correct? In most people's eyes that is still a modern BMW. So you are good

I am talking the cars that are clearly a couple generations old. No matter what they look like old cars. I like using a valet at a nice hotel or restaurant as the perfect example. A 10 yr old BMW will go right next to the 10 year old VW. No matter how cherry you may keep it.

In no ways am I dissing the decision to keep your car for many years. In fact it is probably the smartest financial decision car wise out there. Just once it is costing you 1500k a year or more to keep it running it might be time to come up with a new vehicle.

Originally Posted by BentZero

I've been lurking for awhile and more often than not people have said that owning a BMW outside of warranty is a bad idea. I've owned Japanese cars all of my life and I'm spoiled by their reliability. I love a fun driving car as much as the next guy. I also fall in love with my cars and tend to hold on to them.

However, I absolutely hate having to take time out of my day to deal with automotive repairs. I'm assuming that warning against owning outside of warranty is due to the fact that there will be more than a few repairs to deal with.

(Patiently awaiting BJ's condescending remarks ).

Yeah. I keep telling myself thst instead of spending 1.5 K per year on my 1999 528 I should spend 65 K on a new one. Then I say to myself: "Nah."

Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP

Funny you mention the Cayenne. We compared the Cayenne GTS along with the ML 63 and x5M. The Cayenne was a close second to the x5M for us, but the biggest problem for us was the seat comfort was much better in the x5 along with a little more rear storage space. I do like the Cayenne though. You are correct in that the Panny does not hold its value as well as other Porsche cars. Fest member leslierc purchased a year old Panny 4S certified with only 2k miles on it for some crazy number like 30k off MSRP so I can only imagine what the original owner traded it for. That is some pretty steep depreciation there.

A few years ago, I bought a cpo'd 997.1 Carrera S from my local porsche dealer.

The car was 1 year old with 5K miles on it. It had a sticker $101K. I bought it for $62K.

I owned it for 2 years and put over 20K miles on it. I sold it for $62K...

Wish those deals were around today...

Originally Posted by av98

As an E46 ZHP owner it really depends on your comfort level with working on your cars vs cost. I average $3k a year in total cost for maintenance out of warranty; combination of Indy mechanic + DIY (really depends if I have time to get away from our 3 kids [16 month old twin girls are lots of work] + house chores). This includes tires, brakes, etc but I do average 20K a year which is higher than most, considering my rear tires only last a year and account for 1/4 of that cost.

So cost of maintenance out of warranty really depends on mileage driven (the lower the cheaper it is), DIY skills and also type of car. Most BMW owners usually put aside about $2-3K a year for general maintenance.

Hope this helps.

If your titres only last a year that could add a lot to your costs. My Contis usually last about 4 yrs (60K) before I need to replace 2.

Originally Posted by BentZero

I've been lurking for awhile and more often than not people have said that owning a BMW outside of warranty is a bad idea. I've owned Japanese cars all of my life and I'm spoiled by their reliability. I love a fun driving car as much as the next guy. I also fall in love with my cars and tend to hold on to them.

However, I absolutely hate having to take time out of my day to deal with automotive repairs. I'm assuming that warning against owning outside of warranty is due to the fact that there will be more than a few repairs to deal with.

(Patiently awaiting BJ's condescending remarks ).

My first BMW was a 2006 E90 330i that I owned until May of 2012. I sold it in anticipation of buying my F30 335i.

Bottom line: BMWs are expensive to maintain. Normal wear and tear items are especially expensive: RFT tires, brakes and other wear and tear items.

As an example: late last year, I had a coil fail. Apparently, plenty of people had this problem. It makes no sense to replace a single coil so you are looking at hundres to replace all six. And you may as well replace the spark plugs when you replace the coils. Add in a brake job and a couple of fluid changes and you're looking at $1500 -- even when using OEM parts but a non-dealer mechanic. (I was fortunate to have found a great shop that really knows BMWs.)

I must say, though, that the E90 was a fabulous car that I loved owning. And BMW took care of some items that broke right after the warranty ended as goodwill. That reduced my costs. Believe it or not, to get the turn signal clicking back (it had failed), BMW replaced the entire instrument panel at a retail cost of $700 for the part alone. That's a good example of the technology we all love in BMWs and why they are so expensive to fix. In a Honda, the clicking noise is a side-effect of a $5 solenoid.

Still, when you are seven or eight years out and looking at normal wear and tear repairs and maintenance that can cost 10% of the value of the car, you wish you owned a Japanese car which due to volume has both inexpensive parts and many independent shops that can competently repair it.

So, while I am planning on keeping my 2009 Civic another five or six years (it's my winter car -- I don't drive the F30 in the snow or, truth be told, when it rains) I won't be keeping the BMW past the warranty.

I'd be scared to own any 1st year BMW. '92 3 series, '99 3 series, 2006 3 series . . . All trouble.

Originally Posted by Yobyot

So, while I am planning on keeping my 2009 Civic another five or six years (it's my winter car -- I don't drive the F30 in the snow or, truth be told, when it rains) I won't be keeping the BMW past the warranty.

I did plan to sell my previous bimmer after 3 years, but I ended up keeping it for 12 years and 100k until the rust warranty ran out, I guess it depends on which warranty one refers to. Maybe I got lucky, the beater looked and ran great all those years, and my average annual expense beyond warranty had been around 500-1000. A great independent BMW mechanic did help, but I would agree with other posters that individual driving styles and such can make huge differences to out-of-warranty expenses.

Originally Posted by BentZero;7241387

1) Comfortably? $600. Psychologically? Idk, I've not had a car payment in close to a decade.

How long did you own the car before you paid it off and had no payments for 10 years?

BJ

Originally Posted by Daedalus34r

European cars in general will be more expensive to maintain because of parts cost and labor rates. My E46 has only needed repairs for systems that were known to be problematic (like the cooling system). Everythign else has just been wear and tear stuff, tires, brakes, oil changes, etc. It has been wonderfully reliable and i plan to keep it for a long time. Averages to maybe $1.5k a year in maintenance and repairs. Not that bad at all compared to the cost of a new car.

I feel like people give bimmers a bad rep cuz they do this:

1) buy a used car just outside of warranty (50k+ miles)
2) not understand that a used car outside of warranty will be at that mileage where things need to be replaced.
3) perform maintenance and repairs and whine about it to everyone and the internet.
4) not realize that the significant upfront repair cost at the mileage (just after purchase) will be followed by a long period of basic wear and tear parts replacement so in the long run the cost of ownership will average out and reduce.
5) people think bmw's are bad to own outside of warranty.

Excellent and perceptive post.

I would have no problem owning an out of warranty E46 (and did). An E9x, probably not...an F30, no; at least not until the small displacement turbos get 3-5 years on them.

Having said that both our E90 and E91 were pretty reliable. The E92 has had one issue, the ubiquitous idle control valve, but that might be unique to the S65.

[QUOTE=MonkeyCMonkeyDo;7241442] Yes but if you dont mind driving a 10 year old car, get something that costs you on average 300 bucks a year in repairs and maintenance. Whether you pull up in a 99 corolla or a 99 bmw people are gonna think its a POS. Might as well save 1200-2700 bucks a year.
QUOTE]

I guess it's for the same reason you've decided to "personalize" your car to seperate yourself in some way from your surroundings. I could comfortably go out and get a new M3 or whatever. But I don't want an m3.

I'm a car connoisseur and my preference is classic, very powerful, and rare. Just not a combination that lends itself to new cars.

Now for my wife? Sure - f30 all the way. Don't know if she's going to love it - guess we'll find that out if the wagon comes in manuals trans. If not, it's off to test drive a Porsche Cayenne - which by golly, offers an honest to God manual transmission'd SUV.

I've mostly owned Japanese cars and they are very reliable even if I did most of the fluid changes...at 10 years old the only thing that had to be replaced in the engine area of my RSX is the starter...I still have original clutch, brake pads, rotors, belts, changed both headlights once and the front driver blinker recently burned out.
German cars are more complicated and are not as reliable...my wife's car is a good example...these were the issues/items changed thru the 6 years of ownership...serpentine belt, brake pads, brake squeak, balance shaft (dealer paid half the cost), coolant hose replacement (trip interrupted), power steering reservoir replaced, at least 6x changed front and back bulbs.
Both are from normal driving, sometimes spirited but not to abuse and good maintenance.
Through 2500+ miles and 2.5 months, my F30 brakes squeak (I'm not surprised) and I had the dealer check (reproduced) and worked on it once. I'll bring it back soon and if they can't fix it I'm informing BMW HQ.
Somehow I feel safer in a German car and my F30 is definitely more fun and very responsive.
Will I keep keep my F30 after warranty? I want to but I'll have to wait and see.

I keep my cars for ten years and I drive more than 20k per year so I will let you know! I still have my y2k maxima with 216,000 miles on her. One radiator, alternator, two batteries, and a thermostat to date. My 2011 328 has 33850 miles and I will be out of warrenty the latter part of 2013.

Originally Posted by Chris90

I'd be scared to own any 1st year BMW. '92 3 series, '99 3 series, 2006 3 series . . . All trouble.

Agree. That is why I placed an order for a 2013 x5. The x5 has had its share of growing pains and I felt more comfortable taking the last year production car than a first year production car (2014). Despite my preference to not buy a car within the first 2 years of production I admit that I did violate that rule, for the first time ever, with the F10.

Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo

8 yr old bimmer is still an e90 body style correct? In most people's eyes that is still a modern BMW. So you are good

woah you must be new to bmw, an 8yr old 3 series puts it firmly into the E46 generation.

That said, it has a classic look and imo will never appear dated. early 2000 bmws will always look good. It's the asian flame surfaced design cars that look stale a year after being released.

Originally Posted by Daedalus34r

woah you must be new to bmw, an 8yr old 3 series puts it firmly into the E46 generation.

That said, it has a classic look and imo will never appear dated. early 2000 bmws will always look good. It's the asian flame surfaced design cars that look stale a year after being released.

It's more than I have no idea what year it is

It blows my mind that we are at 2012 and counting back is getting to be distressing. Yes, 2004 would be 8 years ago, not 2006. lol. I am so smart S-M-R-T.

In fact I used to sell BMWS back in the early to mid 90s so I have been part of the world for a long time. No offense to any e46 owners but I hated that body style and thus have blocked that time period from my life

Off topic, how scary is it when you hear a song and think that it is from just a couple years ago and then you find out it is from say 2000 and you realize that is 12+ years ago. Friggin depressing.

Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo

No offense to any e46 owners but I hated that body style and thus have blocked that time period from my life

+1

I'm not sure when E46 owners decided they were E36 owners.

It's the E36 that is a timeless classic. Great handling, great straight lines, streamlined appearance, very sleek.

The E46 is the puffed-up bloated version of the E36, blech. And the E90 is the over-Bangled yet remarkably bland version of the F30.

Both the E46 and E90 were necessary to get us to the best 3 Series ever, the F30, so I harbor no ill-will towards them. But neither the E46 or E90 can ever be considered "classic".

BJ

Originally Posted by boltjaM3s

+1

I'm not sure when E46 owners decided they were E36 owners.

It's the E36 that is a timeless classic. Great handling, great straight lines, streamlined appearance, very sleek.

The E46 is the puffed-up bloated version of the E36, blech. And the E90 is the over-Bangled yet remarkably bland version of the F30.

Both the E46 and E90 were necessary to get us to the best 3 Series ever, the F30, so I harbor no ill-will towards them. But neither the E46 or E90 can ever be considered "classic".

BJ

BJ, your car is starting to look a bit dated as compared to the F32. What are your neighbors going to say!