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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #101  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
Your statement is the exact reason why some people feel BMW's should or should not be owned outside of warranty. It all depends on your threshold for excessive repair costs. Regardless, I maintain my view that these are well built cars and are well worth owning up to 200k miles when comapred with the cost of buying a new comparable car. The key is do you see the value in keeping and maintaining an out of warranty BMW or would you rather just lease a new one every 3 years. Both are fine as long as it fits your needs and wants.
Some people have silly thresholds that are really just excuses to get a new car.

Like they're rather pay $600 every month on a lease, than $600 twice a year on maintenance. There's no logic behind that thinking.
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  #102  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by iamthewalrus View Post
My thoughts *exactly*. I have a 2006 BMW X3 3.0i manual with 43K miles on it. Simple electronics, manual transmission, no turbos, and it's running really well. So far it has been just wear and tear items, with nothing significant. I plan to hold onto the X3 as long as possible, because neither Audi nor BMW will bring a manual-transmission SUV to America anymore.

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My dad has a 2000 E46 323i Wagon and it's been pretty good except for the transmission had an issue where it wouldn't go into reverse or some such thing. That's another reason why I'll always get a manual on the cars I buy.
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  #103  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:57 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Some people have silly thresholds that are really just excuses to get a new car.

Like they're rather pay $600 every month on a lease, than $600 twice a year on maintenance. There's no logic behind that thinking.
Exactly. It is their money and they can spend it how they see fit. The key is to stop trying to convince smart people that a new car lease every 3 years is somehow saving money over keeping and maintaining an out of warranty BMW.
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  #104  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:59 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Originally Posted by EddieB View Post
My dad has a 2000 E46 323i Wagon and it's been pretty good except for the transmission had an issue where it wouldn't go into reverse or some such thing. That's another reason why I'll always get a manual on the cars I buy.
Same here. My 30k mile a year commuter is mated to a proper 6MT.
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  #105  
Old 12-12-2012, 11:21 AM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
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Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
Exactly. It is their money and they can spend it how they see fit. The key is to stop trying to convince smart people that a new car lease every 3 years is somehow saving money over keeping and maintaining an out of warranty BMW.
The funny thing is every single one of us lease supporters has said multiple times that if you own a vehicle 6 years or longer you are saving substantial dollars over the leasee. The fact of the matter most people dont own and drive cars that long. Having a 1200 a year repair habit is great until you are suddenly hit with the 5k one when the same repair on a honda may be 1500. That is the only premise we are making in regards to owning a bmw out of warranty.
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  #106  
Old 12-12-2012, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Some people have silly thresholds that are really just excuses to get a new car.

Like they're rather pay $600 every month on a lease, than $600 twice a year on maintenance. There's no logic behind that thinking.
I don't think there is anything silly about knowing for an almost fact what ones cost of ownership. It would be like me saying how silly it is for people being to cheap to own a new car.

We all make decisions based on experience, wants, and risk. I was a risk manager and can tell you there is logic in knowing your cost of ownership rather than rolling the dice.
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  #107  
Old 12-12-2012, 06:25 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
Exactly. It is their money and they can spend it how they see fit. The key is to stop trying to convince smart people that a new car lease every 3 years is somehow saving money over keeping and maintaining an out of warranty BMW.
Yeah, if you like driving old status symbols and can commit to having the same car for 10 years.

Because if you don't, if you cut it down to a realistic 5 years or 6 years, the math goes in the favor of the recurring 3 year leases under full warranty rather quickly.

BJ
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  #108  
Old 12-12-2012, 06:35 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo View Post
The funny thing is every single one of us lease supporters has said multiple times that if you own a vehicle 6 years or longer you are saving substantial dollars over the leasee. The fact of the matter most people dont own and drive cars that long. Having a 1200 a year repair habit is great until you are suddenly hit with the 5k one when the same repair on a honda may be 1500. That is the only premise we are making in regards to owning a bmw out of warranty.
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Originally Posted by Buildbright View Post
I don't think there is anything silly about knowing for an almost fact what ones cost of ownership. It would be like me saying how silly it is for people being to cheap to own a new car.

We all make decisions based on experience, wants, and risk. I was a risk manager and can tell you there is logic in knowing your cost of ownership rather than rolling the dice.
The reason this topic is so polarizing is because you've got BMW owner/keepers that shouldn't be driving BMW's trying to lecture BMW leasers who should be driving BMW's.

Let me explain.

Someone who buys a $42,000 BMW and keeps it for 10 years is actually driving a car that costs $378 a month. See, he spent $756 a month for the first 5 years of the loan so he feels like one of us, but the truth is he really is a budget-car driver, should be in a nice Kia or some other $378 car he can truly afford.

Those of us who can sustain $599 monthly payments for 20-30 years are in the right car. It's a BMW, it's a luxury car. Those who can't sustain that, those who trick the system by buying-and-keeping forever are just cheating their way into the roundel, driving a car they truly can't afford. And that's fine, by the way. So long as they don't come into threads like these lecturing those of us who bought the right cars for the right reasons. That type of hypocrisy isn't of any value.

BJ
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  #109  
Old 12-12-2012, 06:46 PM
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BentZero BentZero is offline
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Thanks for all of the replies. Lots of differing views in this thread. Let me add another layer though. I'm thinking of buying a used F30 as to not take the hit on depreciation seeing as I intend to own the car for a long time. So the question is whether or not I can get an extended warranty if I buy a non-CPO car? For instance, if I find what I want at a Carmax instead of a BMW dealer. It'll be a task to find though since I don't want a car with more than 30k miles on it.
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  #110  
Old 12-12-2012, 06:56 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Thanks for all of the replies. Lots of differing views in this thread. Let me add another layer though. I'm thinking of buying a used F30 as to not take the hit on depreciation seeing as I intend to own the car for a long time. So the question is whether or not I can get an extended warranty if I buy a non-CPO car? For instance, if I find what I want at a Carmax instead of a BMW dealer. It'll be a task to find though since I don't want a car with more than 30k miles on it.
We keep discussing a cheap way to get into a new luxury car and it really isn't something you should be doing.

Consider spending the next 10 years in 3 leased Honda Accord's for less money than spending the next 10 years in 1 aging BMW 3 Series. You'll get every feature they offer, you'll be fully under warranty, and you'll have the excitement of a new car every 36 months and the flexibility to get into an expensive German luxury car if your lifestyle allows it.

Trying to beat the system doesn't work. You'll just wind up in an old car that's out of warranty and costing you big money. In 2022 you'll be sitting on a porch with your old dog at your feet and a warm beer in your hand gazing at your dented F30 and doing the math in your head and realizing that leasing 3 new cars would have saved you money and headaches and you wasted a decade driving an old car that you didn't love and spent more for that privilege.

I know. I did it myself.

BJ
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  #111  
Old 12-12-2012, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The reason this topic is so polarizing is because you've got BMW owner/keepers that shouldn't be driving BMW's trying to lecture BMW leasers who should be driving BMW's.

Let me explain.

Someone who buys a $42,000 BMW and keeps it for 10 years is actually driving a car that costs $378 a month. See, he spent $756 a month for the first 5 years of the loan so he feels like one of us, but the truth is he really is a budget-car driver, should be in a nice Kia or some other $378 car he can truly afford.

Those of us who can sustain $599 monthly payments for 20-30 years are in the right car. It's a BMW, it's a luxury car. Those who can't sustain that, those who trick the system by buying-and-keeping forever are just cheating their way into the roundel, driving a car they truly can't afford. And that's fine, by the way. So long as they don't come into threads like these lecturing those of us who bought the right cars for the right reasons. That type of hypocrisy isn't of any value.

BJ
I agree about the ignorant views of car ownership. I leased my new BMW and it was the right thing to do for me for many reasons.
Can Afford It
Business Tax Purposes
Like New Tech and Cars
It’s Cheaper for Me than Buying IT
Fixed Cost of Ownership (No Surprises)

Yes there are a lot of crappy leases out there and there are even worse car purchases. Most people will grossly over pay for a car because they believe the salesman or are too lazy to travel/email another dealership sales associate. One must lease/buy for their situation not what others do or say. There is No One Size Fits All.
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  #112  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:24 PM
iamthewalrus iamthewalrus is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
We keep discussing a cheap way to get into a new luxury car and it really isn't something you should be doing.
+1 When a VW GTI -- fully loaded -- comes in at $30K, it just doesn't seem worth bending over backward to get into a luxury car. Buy the GTI and take the extra $10-15K and save it for out-of-warranty repairs over the 10+ years after the warranty ends.
Seriously, the GTI comes with a great engine, great handling, xenons, leather, sports suspension, sunroof, great stereo, and plenty of room for four, all at $30K. If you're on the fence or feel like you're really stretching financially, it's a no brainer. It's just not worth being "car rich" and "cash poor". You'll sleep better at night.
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  #113  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:27 PM
iamthewalrus iamthewalrus is offline
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Sounds like a wise plan. My old bimmer had MT and NA I/6, and it just kept going strong, and remained shinny. Probably should have kept it but no garage space left ....
And mine has been 100% garaged from day 1 (well day 1 after I bought it CPO with 9K miles on it). It looks practically new, inside and out.
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  #114  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:28 PM
Buildbright Buildbright is offline
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Originally Posted by iamthewalrus View Post
+1 When a VW GTI -- fully loaded -- comes in at $30K, it just doesn't seem worth bending over backward to get into a luxury car. Buy the GTI and take the extra $10-15K and save it for out-of-warranty repairs over the 10+ years after the warranty ends.
Seriously, the GTI comes with a great engine, great handling, xenons, leather, sports suspension, sunroof, great stereo, and plenty of room for four, all at $30K. If you're on the fence or feel like you're really stretching financially, it's a no brainer. It's just not worth being "car rich" and "cash poor". You'll sleep better at night.
What if you don't want a GTI? Also not ever one who buys a Luxury car is a 30k Millionaire.

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  #115  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:33 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The reason this topic is so polarizing is because you've got BMW owner/keepers that shouldn't be driving BMW's trying to lecture BMW leasers who should be driving BMW's.

Let me explain.

Someone who buys a $42,000 BMW and keeps it for 10 years is actually driving a car that costs $378 a month. See, he spent $756 a month for the first 5 years of the loan so he feels like one of us, but the truth is he really is a budget-car driver, should be in a nice Kia or some other $378 car he can truly afford.

Those of us who can sustain $599 monthly payments for 20-30 years are in the right car. It's a BMW, it's a luxury car. Those who can't sustain that, those who trick the system by buying-and-keeping forever are just cheating their way into the roundel, driving a car they truly can't afford. And that's fine, by the way. So long as they don't come into threads like these lecturing those of us who bought the right cars for the right reasons. That type of hypocrisy isn't of any value.

BJ
Sorry, but this statement makes no sense whatsoever, even coming from you!

I'm also still confused about how you can call a $42,000 car a luxury car?
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  #116  
Old 12-12-2012, 09:03 PM
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Sorry, but this statement makes no sense whatsoever, even coming from you!

I'm also still confused about how you can call a $42,000 car a luxury car?
So how much then must one spend to earn your luxury car stamp of approval?
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  #117  
Old 12-12-2012, 09:17 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Sorry, but this statement makes no sense whatsoever, even coming from you!
Luxury cars are meant to be kept for 3-5 years. They cost around $50,000. They set you back around $600 a month.

So if one buys a luxury car and keeps it for 10 years one is actually buying a $25,000 budget car. And worse, it's a budget car that's defeatured to begin with and will age ungracefully as old status-symbols tend to do.

That's what's forgotten in these "purchase-and-keep" debates; it's not the same buyer, not the same customer as the leaser. People who deliberately purchase a $50,000 car and keep it 2x it's appropriate lifespan are really buying a $25,000 car. People who are paying $600 a month for 5 years and are keeping the car for 10 are really paying $299 a month.

Leasers and buyers can't have rational conversations as a result. Two different people in two very different places.

BJ
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  #118  
Old 12-12-2012, 09:51 PM
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Lease makes sense for following:
- Those eligible for tax write off as a part of their business
- Those who like to get a new car every 3 years
- Those who prefer hassle free car ownership over savings
- Those who want to drive a car a bit more expensive than they can afford

For those wanting to keep the car for 5-6 years or so and drive under 20K, they come out ahead with buying. They might have to deal with some repair bills but chances are that the bills won't be very substantial in the 1-2 years they are out of warranty.

Never did the math for a 10 year buy. I think that's too long to keep a car, easpecially if that's your main car. Styles and tech get outdated too soon these days. And the cost of repair of these fun imports just take the fun out of it.
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  #119  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by 328i2013 View Post
Lease makes sense for following:
- Those eligible for tax write off as a part of their business
- Those who like to get a new car every 3 years
- Those who prefer hassle free car ownership over savings
- Those who want to drive a car a bit more expensive than they can afford

For those wanting to keep the car for 5-6 years or so and drive under 20K, they come out ahead with buying. They might have to deal with some repair bills but chances are that the bills won't be very substantial in the 1-2 years they are out of warranty.

Never did the math for a 10 year buy. I think that's too long to keep a car, easpecially if that's your main car. Styles and tech get outdated too soon these days. And the cost of repair of these fun imports just take the fun out of it.
I agree with all those except the last one. Leasing is not for people to over extend themselves. Those leasee's usually have the bad experience. Can't afford premium fuel, can't pay end of lease fees, can't afford quality tires. Not to mention insurance is always more expensive. They also put down to much to get the payment cheaper and when the car gets wrecked they are screwed and tattooed.
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  #120  
Old 12-12-2012, 11:31 PM
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Heh... I can't disagree with you there, mate... but in year 2 of my 135i lease now and I'm still in love with this little car. Not sure I am going to be buying it out at the end of the lease or not (I am really craving a manual now that my knee surgeries are a year in my past!) but it's in no way a piece of furniture to me. It's at the moment my favourite car I have ever owned.
My acl injury has me not driving stick. Its the damn left leg! But the options are getting much better now. Can do almost everything without a clutch now!!
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  #121  
Old 12-13-2012, 12:25 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Someone who buys a $42,000 BMW and keeps it for 10 years is actually driving a car that costs $378 a month. See, he spent $756 a month for the first 5 years of the loan so he feels like one of us, but the truth is he really is a budget-car driver, should be in a nice Kia or some other $378 car he can truly afford.

Those of us who can sustain $599 monthly payments for 20-30 years are in the right car. It's a BMW, it's a luxury car. Those who can't sustain that, those who trick the system by buying-and-keeping forever are just cheating their way into the roundel, driving a car they truly can't afford.
Or maybe they are really frugal, like you are being by tooling around with the bare minimum so as not to stand out as a sore.

Or maybe they are even just stingy. It's not always a question of affordability.
.
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  #122  
Old 12-13-2012, 12:29 AM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
We keep discussing a cheap way to get into a new luxury car and it really isn't something you should be doing.

Consider spending the next 10 years in 3 leased Honda Accord's for less money than spending the next 10 years in 1 aging BMW 3 Series. You'll get every feature they offer, you'll be fully under warranty, and you'll have the excitement of a new car every 36 months and the flexibility to get into an expensive German luxury car if your lifestyle allows it.
Sorry, but there is more to excitement in a car than the smell of carcinogenic solvents - I mean new car smell. I still take my very aging and lesser-than-BMW German car over any new Accord.
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  #123  
Old 12-13-2012, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Someone who buys a $42,000 BMW and keeps it for 10 years is actually driving a car that costs $378 a month. See, he spent $756 a month for the first 5 years of the loan so he feels like one of us, but the truth is he really is a budget-car driver, should be in a nice Kia or some other $378 car he can truly afford.

Those of us who can sustain $599 monthly payments for 20-30 years are in the right car. It's a BMW, it's a luxury car. Those who can't sustain that, those who trick the system by buying-and-keeping forever are just cheating their way into the roundel, driving a car they truly can't afford.
This is one of the silliest statements I've seen in a long time.

As far as I know there is no law requiring someone to spend all their money. Thus if someone keeps a car for 10 years they may be doing it because they want to, not because they can't afford to do something else.

I know a number of folks with a *hell* of a lot of money who choose to be frugal in some aspects of their lives. In part that has helped them accumulate their money. Works for me.
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  #124  
Old 12-13-2012, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The reason this topic is so polarizing is because you've got BMW owner/keepers that shouldn't be driving BMW's trying to lecture BMW leasers who should be driving BMW's.

Let me explain.

Someone who buys a $42,000 BMW and keeps it for 10 years is actually driving a car that costs $378 a month. See, he spent $756 a month for the first 5 years of the loan so he feels like one of us, but the truth is he really is a budget-car driver, should be in a nice Kia or some other $378 car he can truly afford.

Those of us who can sustain $599 monthly payments for 20-30 years are in the right car. It's a BMW, it's a luxury car. Those who can't sustain that, those who trick the system by buying-and-keeping forever are just cheating their way into the roundel, driving a car they truly can't afford. And that's fine, by the way. So long as they don't come into threads like these lecturing those of us who bought the right cars for the right reasons. That type of hypocrisy isn't of any value.

BJ
Your math is so bad, please spare us the laughter.

As to your point, there are many who lease who can't afford it, they lease cause they want a BMW and can't afford $800/month, it's that simple. Maybe not so many BF members, but in the general public they are everywhere.

So sure, some buy cause they can't afford to lease, but they're likely way outnumbered by the ones who lease cause they can't afford to buy.
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  #125  
Old 12-13-2012, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post

As to your point, there are many who lease who can't afford it, they lease cause they want a BMW and can't afford $800/month, it's that simple. Maybe not so many BF members, but in the general public they are everywhere.

So sure, some buy cause they can't afford to lease, but they're likely way outnumbered by the ones who lease cause they can't afford to buy.
You are the perfect example.

You keep referencing a spend of $800 a month on your BMW but you didn't.

Your car is an '04. Assuming you bought in '03. Just because you paid $800 a month for the first 5 years doesn't mean you can afford an $800 monthly payment. The car is 9 years old. That's a $375 monthly payment, not an $800 monthly payment.

The point of this isn't to belittle what you're doing- it's great for you, couldn't be happier. You're happy, I'm happy. But when it comes to this type of conversation and this type of debate for buyers/leasers of brand new BMW's you don't have any value here because you aren't like us. None of us are keeping our F30's for 9-10 years. We budget ourselves at $600 a month for the next 10-30 years, not $375. Your advice and perspective are noted but not needed.

BJ
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