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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
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  #1  
Old 12-10-2012, 07:06 PM
kck7 kck7 is offline
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E93: Buffeting or tires?

So I am taking my '11 vert back for them to check what manifests itself as a vibration of some sort (but I wouldn't call it a true vibration in the conventional sense of the word). Car has 5000 miles and has been babied. At around 3.5k I took it in for an A-pillar leak (common issue). Not only did they not get it fixed (they said they did), but this vibe showed up after that.

It happens in the 40-60 mph range. Doesn't seem to occur with top down, maybe not even with windows open (but can't be sure owing to the overall noise level, it is an IS with 19s so it rides firm to begin with). As you can tell from the miles, this car doesn't see much road.

SA says it is likely a rear tire balance issue. I'm not so sure, just given that it showed up right after they had worked on the roof.

I recall reading about the buffeting issue but now can't find a good thread on it, just a few references here and there.

Help?
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  #2  
Old 12-10-2012, 07:33 PM
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Salvator Salvator is offline
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Did you see this thread?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...t=e93+roof+sib
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2012, 07:34 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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I think this is the thread you are looking for:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...uffeting+noise

CA
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  #4  
Old 12-10-2012, 08:22 PM
roadkillrob roadkillrob is online now
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I never did the sib on my car, cupped bridgestones caused all the buffeting/helicopter type noise I started getting around 9k miles. Michelin run flats went on and problem was gone. The sib just tries to dampen the vibration coming from somewhere else, typically the tires that are expensive so not about to be replaced on bmw's dime.

Could be a balance issue, could be uneven wear, what brand/model tires?
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2012, 09:15 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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I never had the problem on my 2007 but I replaced the RFTs when the car was a few weeks old.

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  #6  
Old 12-11-2012, 12:18 PM
roadkillrob roadkillrob is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I never had the problem on my 2007 but I replaced the RFTs when the car was a few weeks old.

CA
Hence why you had no issues - my tech was adamant that the issue was the tires and that if it was his car he would not do the SIB as it was just BMW trying to get out of paying to replace low quality Bridgestone tires causing the issue. He talked the service manager into replacing my tires at very little cost to me with Michelins and that immediately fixed the issue and fixed so many other things, ride, noise, handling all were much much better with the Michelins. I am assuming all that is even better without the run flats!
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  #7  
Old 12-11-2012, 03:40 PM
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fun2drive fun2drive is online now
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I picked the energy transmission from the rear suspension around 28K miles on my Conti SSRs which was about the 6/32" mark and had the SB performed. Once the SB was performed about 90% of the pressure buffet was gone. Once I changed to Michelin Pilot Sports there is no pressure buffet at all and I have 55K miles now.

Do think the tires are the main cause because when everyone else was complaining I never had an issue until the tires wore down to where there was little rubber flex in the tread...
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2012, 08:48 PM
roadkillrob roadkillrob is online now
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I think the car is more succeptible to resonating the noise when the tires have issues that may not affect say an E92. It just makes it easier to tell you have tire issues! Part of the sib mentions worn suspension parts also that can help to transmit the vibration, but in my case by the time I got the resonance, the tires were cupped very bad and needed replaced!
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:48 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
I picked the energy transmission from the rear suspension around 28K miles on my Conti SSRs which was about the 6/32" mark and had the SB performed. Once the SB was performed about 90% of the pressure buffet was gone. Once I changed to Michelin Pilot Sports there is no pressure buffet at all and I have 55K miles now.

Do think the tires are the main cause because when everyone else was complaining I never had an issue until the tires wore down to where there was little rubber flex in the tread...
Your experience is similar to what I experienced with my ex-E93. Although I swapped out the tires before the SIB was performed. Once the tire swap was done (for Michelin Pilot Sports like you did), roughly 90% of the buffeting was gone (I could get it to occur by driving at 55 - 60 on roads that had the rain grooves cut in them). For my ex-E93, it took a combination of the SIB + non-RFTs to completely banish the buffeting.

I am a bit surprised to learn the buffeting issue has apparently re-occurred, as I thought BMW made chassis changes with the LCI cars that ended the resonance that caused the buffeting.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:06 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by roadkillrob View Post
Hence why you had no issues - my tech was adamant that the issue was the tires and that if it was his car he would not do the SIB as it was just BMW trying to get out of paying to replace low quality Bridgestone tires causing the issue. He talked the service manager into replacing my tires at very little cost to me with Michelins and that immediately fixed the issue and fixed so many other things, ride, noise, handling all were much much better with the Michelins. I am assuming all that is even better without the run flats!

Potenzas. A Socialist plot intended to sap the will of free enterprise loving entrepreneurs.

Also, the Devil's work.

Michelin. A French company dedicated to improving our lives. Life is strange.


.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 12-12-2012 at 06:45 PM.
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  #11  
Old 12-12-2012, 05:08 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fun2drive View Post
I picked the energy transmission from the rear suspension around 28K miles on my Conti SSRs which was about the 6/32" mark and had the SB performed. Once the SB was performed about 90% of the pressure buffet was gone. Once I changed to Michelin Pilot Sports there is no pressure buffet at all and I have 55K miles now.

Do think the tires are the main cause because when everyone else was complaining I never had an issue until the tires wore down to where there was little rubber flex in the tread...

Michelin PSS - smooth as glass, my E93.

Like most summer rides, thunky below 60F
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  #12  
Old 12-13-2012, 07:19 AM
roadkillrob roadkillrob is online now
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Michelin PSS's on mine also - love them!
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  #13  
Old 12-23-2012, 06:07 PM
kck7 kck7 is offline
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OP here, sorry for not responding sooner. Besides being very busy (who isn't?), I thought the site would email me when a reply was posted, but apparently not.

I went back after the SA told me all was well. I said I would like to ride with someone to make sure the noise is gone, so the shop foreman went with me, I drove.

He and I both felt the vibes again, around 50 mph. He pointedly asked me if I HEARD it or FELT it, to which I replied the latter, but my hearing isn't so great anyway. He then told me that that is NOT the infamous buffeting, as (1) it is audible more than tactile and (2) my car, MY 2011 and built early 2011, was built after chassis changes and the problem should not exist on this car at all, as another respondent above posted. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and examine the car for other causes.

So we are back to tire/wheel issues. He said he would check out and do the balance (SA told me they already did).

I am still a little weirded out by the fact that this *seems* to go away with the top down, and I think top up/windows down as well. Thoughts?
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  #14  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:07 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kck7 View Post
OP here, sorry for not responding sooner. Besides being very busy (who isn't?), I thought the site would email me when a reply was posted, but apparently not.

I went back after the SA told me all was well. I said I would like to ride with someone to make sure the noise is gone, so the shop foreman went with me, I drove.

He and I both felt the vibes again, around 50 mph. He pointedly asked me if I HEARD it or FELT it, to which I replied the latter, but my hearing isn't so great anyway. He then told me that that is NOT the infamous buffeting, as (1) it is audible more than tactile and (2) my car, MY 2011 and built early 2011, was built after chassis changes and the problem should not exist on this car at all, as another respondent above posted. I will give them the benefit of the doubt and examine the car for other causes.

So we are back to tire/wheel issues. He said he would check out and do the balance (SA told me they already did).

I am still a little weirded out by the fact that this *seems* to go away with the top down, and I think top up/windows down as well. Thoughts?
This is starting to sound like splitting hairs. My ex-E93 produced a buffeting sensation that was felt more than heard. If you go through the big, long BF thread about the buffeting condition, you will find posters who were nauseated by the buffeting. Whether it is caused by sound or vibrations, at the end of the day, sound is vibrations that are able to be discerned by the ear.

Here is a test - have the wheels & tires on your car swapped for a set of wheels and tires from a 335is (those are equipped with Michelin Pilot Sport RF tires, which are more pliant than the Bridgestones). Take the car for a run at 50 to 60 mph. If the flutter is still present, then it is not due to tire rigidity. If no flutter after fitting the Michelins, then BMW can comp you a set of Michelins (they probably will want to put another set of Bridgestones on, but that is for you to argue that the Bridgestones are causing the flutter).
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:37 PM
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Potenzas. A Socialist plot intended to sap the will of free enterprise loving entrepreneurs.

Also, the Devil's work.

Michelin. A French company dedicated to improving our lives. Life is strange.


.
You say this while the FRENCH have gone completely SOCIALIST!! Perhaps Michelin has followed suit! At least Bridgestone is democratic. I challenge your tire politics!!
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