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  #1  
Old 12-12-2012, 07:52 AM
agentsmith agentsmith is offline
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looking for an invoice+$500 dealer in South Florida

I'm looking for a 2013 (or new 2012) 535i (lease or purchase).

Below is my math for a 535i lease with an MSRP of $57395.

MSRP $57395
Invoice $53020 (includes $895 destination and handling and $180 training service fee)
*
If we go with invoice + $500:
*
$53020
+ $500
- $750 loyalty
- $2000 hoilday cash
*
= $50770 cap cost
*
at 57% residual and MF=0.00125 (12k)
*
36 mo is $605 + tax
39 mo is $567 + tax

As I mentioned, this is my calculation (with no down, taxes and fees an additional couple of hundred dollars).

The dealer's quote for the same car is $659+tax for 39 mo with about $1200 initial payment (excluding 1st mo). Obviously I won't go for this, but just want to make sure if my calculations/assumptions are realistic.

Any recommendations for a South Florida dealer that might give invoice + $500-$750 deal?

Thanks,
Matt
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  #2  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:28 AM
cchrisv cchrisv is offline
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I heard Florida has high DMV fees and dealing document fees? Find out what those are.

Do you pay tax on the payment or the entire car in your state?

Depending on where you are in Florida I would recommend you contact:
http://garage.bimmerfest.com/siteSpo...nsor&SpCId=106
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:38 AM
agentsmith agentsmith is offline
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Those fees do not add up to much - I paid a total of $360 in my last lease in 2010. The dealer fee (which is pretty much a profit) was listed as $489 (and I didn't pay that for that lease). There are no other additional fees as far as I know. Tax is added to the monthly payment.

I'm in the Miami area.
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  #4  
Old 12-12-2012, 08:53 AM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
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at least 725 acq fee, the 489 doc fee, title/registration of 400-700, some sales tax items of 100, first payment of 600 would mean around 2400 in drive off fees. If the guy listed 1200 - payment you are still looking at the acq fee added to your numbers which would move you up probably 20 bucks.

Those are the bits you are missing in their deal. He is probably marking up acq fee and money factor and not discounting the vehicle much as well.
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  #5  
Old 12-12-2012, 09:23 AM
agentsmith agentsmith is offline
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I guess my question is when people say they paid invoice + $500, what exactly does it cover/include? Should the acquisition fee and the dealer fee included in that amount? In other words, is the following a fair deal:

invoice + $500 + acquisition fee ($925 in SF) + dealer fee (about $489) + state/reg fees (about $360 below)


From my last lease:
Initial title fee: N/A
Initial Reg Fee: N/A
Initial License fee: $191
Sales Tax; $46
Acquisition Fee (if not capitalized): N/A
Sales Tax on Cap Cost Reduction: $55
Florida Fees: $68


Btw, the $1200 from the dealer's quote doesn't include the 1st mo (so it was actually $1900), and I don't see how they applied the holiday and loyalty credit.
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  #6  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:12 AM
cchrisv cchrisv is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith View Post
In other words, is the following a fair deal:

invoice + $500 + acquisition fee ($925 in SF) + dealer fee (about $489) + state/reg fees (about $360 below)

.
That deal is essentially +$1189 compared to invoice. The acquisition fee of $725 is not dealer profit, but the $200 they are adding to yours is. The acquisition fee is not including in the + invoice pricing. However, the dealer fee is. For example I bought a 335 last saturday. I paid Invoice - 600 + $399 dealer fee + $180 for blackgrill/wheellocks. In my mind I essentially paid invoice - $100. $489 is super high for dealer fee. You want to be at + 500 dealer profit. The document fee is dealer profit. The acquisition fee is not. The +200 they are adding to yours is.

Good luck
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Last edited by cchrisv; 12-12-2012 at 10:20 AM.
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  #7  
Old 12-12-2012, 10:20 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith View Post
I'm looking for a 2013 (or new 2012) 535i (lease or purchase).

Below is my math for a 535i lease with an MSRP of $57395.

MSRP $57395
Invoice $53020 (includes $895 destination and handling and $180 training service fee)
*
If we go with invoice + $500:
*
$53020
+ $500
- $750 loyalty
- $2000 hoilday cash
*
= $50770 cap cost
*
at 57% residual and MF=0.00125 (12k)
*
36 mo is $605 + tax
39 mo is $567 + tax

As I mentioned, this is my calculation (with no down, taxes and fees an additional couple of hundred dollars).

The dealer's quote for the same car is $659+tax for 39 mo with about $1200 initial payment (excluding 1st mo). Obviously I won't go for this, but just want to make sure if my calculations/assumptions are realistic.

Any recommendations for a South Florida dealer that might give invoice + $500-$750 deal?

Thanks,
Matt
I have a guy that I have used for years at Braman WPB. If you are interested I ll PM you his information. I know he will give you 750 over invoice because another friend just got that from him.
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  #8  
Old 12-12-2012, 11:23 AM
agentsmith agentsmith is offline
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I looked at their deal more carefully and the initial payment of $1930 has the acquisition fee + dealer fee + state/license fees included, but not the first payment.

Their $659/mo (39 months) is based on a cap cost of about $54100 (invoice is $53020), and there is no sign of $2000 holiday cash + $750 loyalty even though they told me it was applied - basically they are applying it to the MSRP and trying to give the illusion. And this is one of the biggest dealers in SF.

Alpine300ZHP, I'm in contact with a Braman saleperson already, but he is not very responsive (when you ask them about residuals, money factors, invoice, etc. they kinda lose interest ). I will contact you in case I need to replace the guy.

Thanks.
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  #9  
Old 12-12-2012, 11:36 AM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith View Post
I looked at their deal more carefully and the initial payment of $1930 has the acquisition fee + dealer fee + state/license fees included, but not the first payment.

Their $659/mo (39 months) is based on a cap cost of about $54100 (invoice is $53020), and there is no sign of $2000 holiday cash + $750 loyalty even though they told me it was applied - basically they are applying it to the MSRP and trying to give the illusion. And this is one of the biggest dealers in SF.

Alpine300ZHP, I'm in contact with a Braman saleperson already, but he is not very responsive (when you ask them about residuals, money factors, invoice, etc. they kinda lose interest ). I will contact you in case I need to replace the guy.

Thanks.
Hmm...this is modus operendi for Braman. The only reason it is not for me is because I have given them so much business over the years that I can pretty much write my own deal and so can those people who I send to them. If your guy is not responsive you might want to reach out to my guy. I sent you his info via PM.

I just worked your numbers backwwards using 750 over invoice. Cap cost should be 53,770, 2750 cap cost reduction (holiday credit and loyalty) and the payment comes to 650 plus tax for 15k miles a year. You would pay first payment, tags, dealer fee, tax on the holiday credit and loyalty and acquistion fee up front for total of about 2660 out of pocket. This includes Braman's outrageous 689 dollar dealer fee that they will not waive. See if your sales guy will agree to 650 plus tax a month at 2660 total out of pocket and forget about the base rate, base acquistion fee, ect since that is already factored into what I just gave you. If they say yes then you are getting an acceptable deal. You would get an even better deal if you went with a fest sponsor and purchased out of state....
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Last edited by Alpine300ZHP; 12-12-2012 at 11:47 AM. Reason: modified numbers for 39 month lease instead of 36
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  #10  
Old 12-12-2012, 11:53 AM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
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With that 2750 in instant cash your net cap cost should be basically 51,000. Then you can add in the fees you dont want to pay up front (though I would pay the acq fee, doc fee, dealer fee and title registration as who wants to pay that part in interest anyways) and then go from there.

Or save the pain and simply by from Adrian in Atlanta and drive the car back or do PCD. He will make your life much easier than this whole back and forth.
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  #11  
Old 12-12-2012, 12:26 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeycmonkeydo View Post
with that 2750 in instant cash your net cap cost should be basically 51,000. Then you can add in the fees you dont want to pay up front (though i would pay the acq fee, doc fee, dealer fee and title registration as who wants to pay that part in interest anyways) and then go from there.

or save the pain and simply by from adrian in atlanta and drive the car back or do pcd. He will make your life much easier than this whole back and forth.
+ 1
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  #12  
Old 12-12-2012, 12:52 PM
agentsmith agentsmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo View Post
With that 2750 in instant cash your net cap cost should be basically 51,000. Then you can add in the fees you dont want to pay up front (though I would pay the acq fee, doc fee, dealer fee and title registration as who wants to pay that part in interest anyways) and then go from there.

Or save the pain and simply by from Adrian in Atlanta and drive the car back or do PCD. He will make your life much easier than this whole back and forth.

That might be the way to go. So far not getting anywhere with the four BMW dealers here in Miami...
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2012, 01:14 PM
MonkeyCMonkeyDo MonkeyCMonkeyDo is offline
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I have not used Adrian personally, but knowing my experience with Jon Shafer (founder of this website) here in California and the thousands of people that swear by Adrian, I feel comfortable guaranteeing you will not experience an easier car buying experience than with one of the main/regular sponsors on this board. You get a clear cut explained cost which is well below most if not all the other deals out there all via email and maybe a phone call or two. The only added cost is a little trip up to Atlanta via plane or train and then the chance to do a fun road trip back home with your new car.

I used to sell cars and love the back and forth, but damn it is tiring. And I have heard those Florida dealers are all basically in cahoots, which makes it even worse. Shoot Adrian an email. It just may make your day
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  #14  
Old 12-12-2012, 01:30 PM
pcmike pcmike is offline
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Alpine,

Can you please PM me your guy at Braman's information? I'll be signing a new lease on a loaded 335 msport I ordered from them THIS week; just awaiting delivery.

Thank you,
Michael

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
I have a guy that I have used for years at Braman WPB. If you are interested I ll PM you his information. I know he will give you 750 over invoice because another friend just got that from him.
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  #15  
Old 12-12-2012, 02:05 PM
Alpine300ZHP Alpine300ZHP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonkeyCMonkeyDo View Post
I have not used Adrian personally, but knowing my experience with Jon Shafer (founder of this website) here in California and the thousands of people that swear by Adrian, I feel comfortable guaranteeing you will not experience an easier car buying experience than with one of the main/regular sponsors on this board. You get a clear cut explained cost which is well below most if not all the other deals out there all via email and maybe a phone call or two. The only added cost is a little trip up to Atlanta via plane or train and then the chance to do a fun road trip back home with your new car.

I used to sell cars and love the back and forth, but damn it is tiring. And I have heard those Florida dealers are all basically in cahoots, which makes it even worse. Shoot Adrian an email. It just may make your day
Well I have used Adrian personally on several occasions and you could not ask for a better guy. I consider Adrian to be a personal friend and we have gotten to know each other pretty well over the years. I highly recommend Adrian. I am just lucky that I have a relationship with a couple of South Florida C.A.'s that I can trust and I buy from them as well as Adrian.
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Last edited by Alpine300ZHP; 12-12-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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  #16  
Old 12-12-2012, 09:25 PM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith View Post
I looked at their deal more carefully and the initial payment of $1930 has the acquisition fee + dealer fee + state/license fees included, but not the first payment.

Their $659/mo (39 months) is based on a cap cost of about $54100 (invoice is $53020), and there is no sign of $2000 holiday cash + $750 loyalty even though they told me it was applied - basically they are applying it to the MSRP and trying to give the illusion. And this is one of the biggest dealers in SF.

Alpine300ZHP, I'm in contact with a Braman saleperson already, but he is not very responsive (when you ask them about residuals, money factors, invoice, etc. they kinda lose interest ). I will contact you in case I need to replace the guy.

Thanks.
I lived there for a bunch of years. Always bought my cars out of state or went through a credit union auto seekers. Never paid that bs dealer fee and always stayed away fromBraman and Maroony. They are want to be sharks, always felt I needed a shower after talking to those guys.
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  #17  
Old 12-13-2012, 04:37 PM
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Travel4Surf Travel4Surf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine300ZHP View Post
I have a guy that I have used for years at Braman WPB. If you are interested I ll PM you his information. I know he will give you 750 over invoice because another friend just got that from him.
This is a joke. He will give it to you for 750 over invoice... but keep all rebates for himself.
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  #18  
Old 12-13-2012, 10:40 PM
mr29 mr29 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cchrisv View Post
That deal is essentially +$1189 compared to invoice. The acquisition fee of $725 is not dealer profit, but the $200 they are adding to yours is. The acquisition fee is not including in the + invoice pricing. However, the dealer fee is. For example I bought a 335 last saturday. I paid Invoice - 600 + $399 dealer fee + $180 for blackgrill/wheellocks. In my mind I essentially paid invoice - $100. $489 is super high for dealer fee. You want to be at + 500 dealer profit. The document fee is dealer profit. The acquisition fee is not. The +200 they are adding to yours is.

Good luck
good stuff to know here


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  #19  
Old 12-14-2012, 05:34 AM
ddk632 ddk632 is online now
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I live in South Florida and the only dealers I've found that were willing to actually deal and entertain "invoice + $x" negotiation were the Internet Manager in Pembroke Pines (Lauderdale BMW) and, to a lesser extent, the guys at South BMW (owned by Vista but seemed easier to deal with since it is a much smaller dealership). Vista have such a high volume of buyers who won't know what a good deal would be if it was served to them on a silver platter with a Mojito, that they don't feel the need to deal. At least that's been my experience. Braman in Juipter was the same as Vista in my experience. Don't get me wrong, the salespeople at both Vista and Braman have been really nice guys, but they talk payment and sell the service and experience while willing to give some small discounts from MSRP and that's about it.

So I've given up on SF dealers and ordered my recent BMW for PCD from out of state via a site sponsor. No hassle there at all. The hardest part about it is that January 17th couldn't be here fast enough.


Last edited by ddk632; 12-14-2012 at 05:36 AM.
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  #20  
Old 12-14-2012, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddk632 View Post
I live in South Florida and the only dealers I've found that were willing to actually deal and entertain "invoice + $x" negotiation were the Internet Manager in Pembroke Pines (Lauderdale BMW) and, to a lesser extent, the guys at South BMW (owned by Vista but seemed easier to deal with since it is a much smaller dealership). Vista have such a high volume of buyers who won't know what a good deal would be if it was served to them on a silver platter with a Mojito, that they don't feel the need to deal. At least that's been my experience. Braman in Juipter was the same as Vista in my experience. Don't get me wrong, the salespeople at both Vista and Braman have been really nice guys, but they talk payment and sell the service and experience while willing to give some small discounts from MSRP and that's about it.

So I've given up on SF dealers and ordered my recent BMW for PCD from out of state via a site sponsor. No hassle there at all. The hardest part about it is that January 17th couldn't be here fast enough.



Best move you could have ever made.
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  #21  
Old 12-15-2012, 01:12 PM
agentsmith agentsmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddk632 View Post
I live in South Florida and the only dealers I've found that were willing to actually deal and entertain "invoice + $x" negotiation were the Internet Manager in Pembroke Pines (Lauderdale BMW) and, to a lesser extent, the guys at South BMW (owned by Vista but seemed easier to deal with since it is a much smaller dealership). Vista have such a high volume of buyers who won't know what a good deal would be if it was served to them on a silver platter with a Mojito, that they don't feel the need to deal. At least that's been my experience. Braman in Juipter was the same as Vista in my experience. Don't get me wrong, the salespeople at both Vista and Braman have been really nice guys, but they talk payment and sell the service and experience while willing to give some small discounts from MSRP and that's about it.

So I've given up on SF dealers and ordered my recent BMW for PCD from out of state via a site sponsor. No hassle there at all. The hardest part about it is that January 17th couldn't be here fast enough.

Braman and Vista are the top two dealers in US. As you said they absolutely don't feel the need to deal because they sell so much and so easily in South Florida.

I took the following deal to Braman (not as a starting point, but to show them what's out there):
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=663881

There wasn't much negotiation (I wasn't planning to commit today), but they seemed to draw the line at invoice + $1000 + $689 dealer fee. I told them I won't pay more than invoice + $500 (no dealer fee), they told me it would be impossible to get that deal in South Florida. We'll see I guess

Does anyone know how much it costs to have an out-of-state BMW dealer ship a car to Miami?
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  #22  
Old 12-15-2012, 03:15 PM
ddk632 ddk632 is online now
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Why not do PCD? The drive back is only about 10-12 hours to South Florida. I'd imagine shipping will vary between $1k and $2k depending on which dealer, in which state, you purchase from. I had a quote for an enclosed trailer (for a non BMW I ended up not buying) from San Diego to Coral Springs for just around $2k. I'd say that would be your max. Open trailer will be cheaper, and closer dealer will be cheaper. I don't imagine it would be less than $1k from anywhere, though.
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  #23  
Old 12-15-2012, 05:48 PM
Red Lined Red Lined is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith View Post
Braman and Vista are the top two dealers in US. As you said they absolutely don't feel the need to deal because they sell so much and so easily in South Florida.

I took the following deal to Braman (not as a starting point, but to show them what's out there):
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=663881

There wasn't much negotiation (I wasn't planning to commit today), but they seemed to draw the line at invoice + $1000 + $689 dealer fee. I told them I won't pay more than invoice + $500 (no dealer fee), they told me it would be impossible to get that deal in South Florida. We'll see I guess

Does anyone know how much it costs to have an out-of-state BMW dealer ship a car to Miami?

+1 I also bet you that it would be impossible to get invoice +500 in the state of Florida. It's just not happening. The best you are going to do is 900-1000 over including dealer fee. Try Lauderdale at Pines for that. Other than that you better buy out of state if you want that 500 over.
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  #24  
Old 12-16-2012, 06:19 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agentsmith View Post
Braman and Vista are the top two dealers in US. As you said they absolutely don't feel the need to deal because they sell so much and so easily in South Florida.

I took the following deal to Braman (not as a starting point, but to show them what's out there):
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=663881

There wasn't much negotiation (I wasn't planning to commit today), but they seemed to draw the line at invoice + $1000 + $689 dealer fee. I told them I won't pay more than invoice + $500 (no dealer fee), they told me it would be impossible to get that deal in South Florida. We'll see I guess

Does anyone know how much it costs to have an out-of-state BMW dealer ship a car to Miami?

I have shipped a half a dozen cars much further distance and it should be less than 1k . I am sure you could probably work with Adrian in Atlanta. I personally would and did PCD, it's free and quite fun. You can make a stop in Disney on the way back to break up the 10 hr ride.

That being said, I applaud you for not giving in to SF Car dealerships scam with dealer fees.
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  #25  
Old 12-16-2012, 06:39 AM
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afshawnt afshawnt is online now
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Go see Les cutler at pines BMW. Tell him I referee you. He may or may not be able to help you, but he is an honest guy that will try his best to get you the best price from the sales manager.

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