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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #1  
Old 11-02-2014, 01:00 AM
ilicboris ilicboris is offline
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Location: Nebraska, USA
 
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Mein Auto: 2004 545i
Looking for a diesel possibly

I posted this in the E90 section earlier, then I found out there's a whole sub forum for diesel! Just want to get your guys thoughts. Here's a copy and paste from my other thread.

I'm getting rid of my 545i and was in the market for a 335i coupe or sedan, or possibly a 535i as well. The other day while picking up parts at the BMW dealer I came across a 2010 335d in Monaco Blue and it looked amazing. I ended up taking it for a test drive and enjoyed it very much. The only weird thought to me was that it's diesel and I've never owned a diesel before. I've driven diesel pickups before but of course this was different. It seems to be pretty loaded judging by the build sheet and window sticker.

I went back and test drove it again just to be sure about it and I still really liked it. The only issue I could tell from test driving is that the turn signal indicators don't make any noise at all. They flash inside and outside but no noise is present. I thought it was maybe a setting on iDrive or something but neither me or the salesman could figure it out.

So then I asked for the Carfax. It's had 3 owners (red flag?) and was originally a California car. Made its way through the midwest and ended up at my local BMW dealer. There were a couple things I noticed on the Carfax besides the basic maintenance intervals. At 66k the mass air flow sensor was replaced, the cylinder head gasket was replaced and at 66,688 miles it says that the engine compression was checked and then the engine was replaced! Salesman says it was most likely a good will replacement by BMW since it was out of warranty and it does show that it was done at a BMW dealer. Otherwise it is a clean title. I had the sales guy find a more detailed service record and right before they replaced the engine it says a "loose connecting rod" was detected.

On one hand the thought of a engine replacement is kind of positive because its a new engine, but the other part of me thinks what else could go wrong? I'm no stranger to BMW maintenance especially after owning an N62 powered vehicle. What are you guys thoughts? The diesel currently has 88k miles.
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2014, 01:05 AM
d geek d geek is offline
diesel evangelist
Location: San Antonio, TX, USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,187
Mein Auto: Volvo V70 + Volvo S80
Before you make your purchase please familiarize yourself with the carbon build up (CBU) issue. It has not afflicted all of the E90 d's here in the States, but a good number of them. Root cause is not known by the general public, and the theories range from too much EGR to excessive oil vapor to low quality fuel. Just do your due diligence before making the decision.

Good luck
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  #3  
Old 11-02-2014, 01:13 AM
ilicboris ilicboris is offline
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Location: Nebraska, USA
 
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Mein Auto: 2004 545i
I've been reading up on it as much as I can lately. I've ran across so many acronyms that I can't figure out what they mean. I've figured out DPF and CBU. What is DDE?

I'm dealing with a carbon buildup issue on my 545i but it most likely will not be fixed before getting rid of it.
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  #4  
Old 11-02-2014, 06:11 AM
Pierre Louis Pierre Louis is offline
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Mein Auto: 2011 335d Sport
BMW apparently went through several iterations of the DDE (Digital Diesel Electronics or Dwight David Eisenhower if you wish!) before they ended production for the North American market around October 2011. Seems that a good number of these cars had repeat injector problems and seemed to be fixed with a DDE replacement and/or reprogramming. It makes sense that the engine management system has an effect on carbon buildup (CBU) as it coordinates most of the engine functions that have to do with combustion and emissions.

PL
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  #5  
Old 11-02-2014, 06:31 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
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Location: Central NJ
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Mein Auto: '11 335d, '00 540iT
The 335D is an amazing car and BMW is unlikely to ever import another like it to the US. Closest will be the 535D. CBU will happen to all of them sooner or later, but then as everyone knows happens to gasoline engines as well. A big difference is for most gasoline engines CBU will likely not occur for 100K-200K miles. For the 335D, seems to happen to many in the 50K range. Also due to the complicated ports to swirl the air as it goes into the cylinder on the diesel, is much more difficult to clean.

But I would not let that deter you, as there are now proven procedures to deal with CBU. From what I have read there have been random issues with the DEF system that do not seem as common as CBU. For me I had CBU at 53K miles that was taken care of and no other issues with the car.

Bottom line, try to have an extended warranty if you purchase the vehicle.
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  #6  
Old 11-02-2014, 07:08 AM
innovativeit innovativeit is offline
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Location: Circle City
 
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Posts: 430
Mein Auto: BMW 335d
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilicboris View Post
I posted this in the E90 section earlier, then I found out there's a whole sub forum for diesel! Just want to get your guys thoughts. Here's a copy and paste from my other thread.

I'm getting rid of my 545i and was in the market for a 335i coupe or sedan, or possibly a 535i as well. The other day while picking up parts at the BMW dealer I came across a 2010 335d in Monaco Blue and it looked amazing. I ended up taking it for a test drive and enjoyed it very much. The only weird thought to me was that it's diesel and I've never owned a diesel before. I've driven diesel pickups before but of course this was different. It seems to be pretty loaded judging by the build sheet and window sticker.

I went back and test drove it again just to be sure about it and I still really liked it. The only issue I could tell from test driving is that the turn signal indicators don't make any noise at all. They flash inside and outside but no noise is present. I thought it was maybe a setting on iDrive or something but neither me or the salesman could figure it out.

So then I asked for the Carfax. It's had 3 owners (red flag?) and was originally a California car. Made its way through the midwest and ended up at my local BMW dealer. There were a couple things I noticed on the Carfax besides the basic maintenance intervals. At 66k the mass air flow sensor was replaced, the cylinder head gasket was replaced and at 66,688 miles it says that the engine compression was checked and then the engine was replaced! Salesman says it was most likely a good will replacement by BMW since it was out of warranty and it does show that it was done at a BMW dealer. Otherwise it is a clean title. I had the sales guy find a more detailed service record and right before they replaced the engine it says a "loose connecting rod" was detected.

On one hand the thought of a engine replacement is kind of positive because its a new engine, but the other part of me thinks what else could go wrong? I'm no stranger to BMW maintenance especially after owning an N62 powered vehicle. What are you guys thoughts? The diesel currently has 88k miles.
I sent you a private message.
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  #7  
Old 11-02-2014, 07:32 PM
Bobcat110 Bobcat110 is offline
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Location: Ohio
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1
Mein Auto: 325i
Well...I'm pretty disappointed. I was thinking an off-lease 335d would be a good fit for my family, but CBU threads have convinced me otherwise I test drove one yesterday and REALLY liked it.

We've always bought off-lease and drive the wheels off our cars. Had a '96 Taurus die at 295,000 miles. Sold a 2000 Chrysler Mini-Van with 255K miles after A/C crapped. Currently have a 2009 Enclave with 130K on it and a 2003 325i with 278K on it. Haven't had any issues with the Enclave (other than a Catalytic Converter while still under warranty). The 325i has been good to us. Only had major issues recently with bad idle/stalling. Went ahead and on my own did intake stuff (ICV, MAF, DESA, Boots), Oxygen Sensors, Plugs, Fuel Filter, and Fuel Pump. Then had Indy shop do Crank Case hoses, plus PS hoses and other hoses that were leaking, plus had broken rear springs. After almost $3,000, have the car running good again.

The plan is to turn over the 325i to my daughter who's turning 16 in a month, then buy the wife a newish car. She's basically gave me the narrow field of buying her a 3 series. She drives about 90 miles roundtrip daily to work. I also drive around 22K annually for my work. The Enclave serves duo service as car for work and family averaging 19MPG. I was suggesting to her maybe a VW Passat Diesel for room for family (when all the room of the Enclave wasn't needed) and fuel efficiency to help with gas bill. That wasn't going so well, so saw the 335d and there were 2011's in Mid-20's around and thought we'd found a solution that we both would be content with. Although, it'd be tough to do family trips in 335d because I'm 6'5" and don't leave much room for anyone behind me (thus the thought of the Passat).

I could probably lived with the 335d if it was just a CBU cleanout every 50K or so...but just can't risk the $4K-$10K+ damage it does that some have reported Sounds like BMW is soooo close to a winner, then just reinforces to the anti-Diesel Americans why they should stay with gas.

Last edited by Bobcat110; 11-02-2014 at 07:43 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-03-2014, 05:29 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
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Location: Central NJ
 
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Mein Auto: '11 335d, '00 540iT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat110 View Post
I could probably lived with the 335d if it was just a CBU cleanout every 50K or so...but just can't risk the $4K-$10K+ damage it does that some have reported Sounds like BMW is soooo close to a winner, then just reinforces to the anti-Diesel Americans why they should stay with gas.
I think the major engine failures are extremely rare and are due to something the dealer did wrong. Earlier on, they were removing the head to clean the CBU. This created many potential areas for things to go wrong. Now that the cleaning is done with the head in place, this has pretty much eliminated these engine failures. Something going wrong with the DEF tank is still can be expensive, but is also pretty rare.

I plan on keeping mine for a long time with the expectation it will need CBU cleaning about every 50K miles. They need to make refurbished/pre-cleaned intake manifolds available to save the expense of replacing them.

I also keep cars a long time, but not nearly as long as you. We had a '87 Taurus that made it to 165K, until my son totaled it. Currently we have the 335D with 55K, the 540iT with 155K, and my son has my old 328i with 190K (original clutch!). All 3 BMWs use no oil, down less than 1/4 quart between changes.
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  #9  
Old 11-03-2014, 09:45 AM
floydarogers's Avatar
floydarogers floydarogers is offline
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Location: Renton, WA
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,821
Mein Auto: 335d, 328d, Toyota T100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobcat110 View Post
...I could probably lived with the 335d if it was just a CBU cleanout every 50K or so...but just can't risk the $4K-$10K+ damage it does that some have reported Sounds like BMW is soooo close to a winner, then just reinforces to the anti-Diesel Americans why they should stay with gas.
So, a couple of things, from the perspective of a 4-year/87K miles owner that has been participating in these discussions for several years.

1) Earlier in the history of CBU for these engines, service departments didn't know what was going on (actually, early in the 335d/X5d life the techs were pretty useless and un-informed about these engines). Many/most service departments saw codes for injectors/misfires etc. and did what they thought were right: replace injectors. And at $500 an injector that quickly added up. The next step appeared to be to replace the DDE after repeated injector/misfires - that made sense because the drive electronics for the injectors is part of the DDE. Only when things continued to go wrong was the intake manifold removed, and head cleaned. The SIB governing CBU cleaning seems to cost in the $1200-$1500 range. Obviously, some experience in the service department to CORRECTLY diagnose the problem is needed so that the SIB is followed rather than all the other non-correct stuff done.

2) Randomness. At almost 87K, I've never had a problem with anything but the DEF/SCR (had one oil line to the turbo fail, an early injector out-of-range.) Mine is just humming along (actually, the engine emits more of a growl), still gets upper-30s highway, still spins the wheels if you step off too smartly, still gets into the traction control on full-throttle acceleration on the 2-3 upshift. There has been speculation that urban driving is not a good thing and that highway runs keep down the CBU - but hasn't been proven. Some speculation that the low-pressure EGR on the X5d, and their heavier load keeps it from happening on the X5d (or at least limits it - some has been reported.)

3) Fuel? Who knows. I live in a CA emissions state and the fuel is arguably better (cetane and etc.) than non-CA states. I also run 5% biodiesel (can't avoid it) that improves lubricity, etc.

4) Future worries? No-one's yet really gotten to the mileage where the DPF/OC fail and need replacing - it's a $2500 part. SCR system - BMW has to figure out how to replace parts in the DEF tanks that currently requiring an entire tank replacement. Longevity of tranny - it's a heavy-duty item that seems to be pretty robust, but it's not the same unit as in 335i/328i so we have little history.

IMHO, the issues with the 10,000 335d (and the similar number of X5d) are overblown - remember that you usually see only complaints here in the forums. They're still a risk, but given good service and diagnosis, and a willingness to pay the typical high BMW maintenance costs, a 335d might well be a risk worth taking.
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  #10  
Old 11-03-2014, 09:50 AM
txagbmw txagbmw is offline
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Mein Auto: na
The only way own BMW's is buy it new, drive it for the warranty (years or Mileage) than get another one. Money is not a concern to save a few thousand on getting a lease return or demo when talking a
75K+ car. its just worth the lost to be first owner and scratch it, spill stuff, not have to maintain, let the next maintain if want too. On the diesel, open road great, moves right along. In town can be
sluggish from stop light to stop light and you got the clatter. Going back to the V8 here just more responsive for town driving.
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  #11  
Old 11-03-2014, 10:19 AM
KeithS KeithS is offline
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Mein Auto: '11 335d, '00 540iT
Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
Longevity of tranny - it's a heavy-duty item that seems to be pretty robust, but it's not the same unit as in 335i/328i so we have little history.
Just as info, the 335D tranny is the same one used in 4.8 X5 from a few years ago.
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