Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)

F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #126  
Old 02-20-2013, 04:56 PM
swajames swajames is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 996
Mein Auto: Jaguar F-Type V8 S
That the Tesla is not necessarily suited to long trips in the cold is no more a surprise than my Porsche being unable to tow my boat or seat seven... I really don't see the fuss. it's not a car for everyone. Out here, there are a lot of charging stations and if it were my commute car I'd get a week out of single charge AND I'd get to drive in the HOV lane while flying solo. My friend actually has a Model S, with the high capacity battery, and she's using just as she'd use any other car (she also has a Tesla Roadster). More to the point, I've personally taken a long drive on the freeway in her car, at well over freeway limits, and I have seen first hand the range does NOT drop to 100 miles. Our round trip was probably close to that distance. For your example, you forgot to mention or failed to notice that are of course three battery options. That the smaller capacity battery has a lower range is again no more surprising than you can't go as far with only a third of a tank of gas as you can a full tank. I'd personally not buy the smaller battery but each to their own.
__________________
2014 Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Range Rover HSE Lux, Orkney Gray, Sand interior
Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible, Midnight Blue, 6-Speed
BMW 550i, BMW 545i

Last edited by swajames; 02-20-2013 at 05:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #127  
Old 02-20-2013, 05:11 PM
MOPAULY's Avatar
MOPAULY MOPAULY is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Spring Mount, PA
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,637
Mein Auto: Many things
Purely electric cars, based on current technology, will never replace fossil fueled vehicles.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #128  
Old 02-20-2013, 07:46 PM
Mbbrewer Mbbrewer is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Houston
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 281
Mein Auto: 2013 550 Msport
Quote:
Originally Posted by MOPAULY View Post
Purely electric cars, based on current technology, will never replace fossil fueled vehicles.
why not?
Reply With Quote
  #129  
Old 02-20-2013, 08:43 PM
kk22 kk22 is offline
Chitown traveller
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 312
Mein Auto: 535i X-Drive
I was impressed by the car's interior materials although was not a fan of the massive center console LCD. The dealership is two minutes from my house and my driving is mostly in the city (90%)perhaps I should schedule a test drive. its great to see you came away so impressed.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #130  
Old 02-20-2013, 08:52 PM
mryakanisachoad's Avatar
mryakanisachoad mryakanisachoad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: brooklyn,ny
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 570
Mein Auto: 550xi / 135i / M5
As these cars become more mainstream, I imagine that entrepreneurial types will figure out ways to deal with emergency power back-up systems. Some sort of practical means to get you a few miles to "safety".

Being assured that I could never get stuck on a bridge or in a traffic jam would seal the deal for people like me. I'm not interested in staring at a screen the entire time I'm driving being worried about getting stuck. And, it's better and safer than driving around with an unsafe can of gas in the trunk.


I think Tesla needs to market the Model S as the best 200 mile car in the world and stop trying to sell the car as something it's not = a regular car with a full tank of gas.

Last edited by mryakanisachoad; 02-20-2013 at 08:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #131  
Old 02-20-2013, 08:57 PM
mryakanisachoad's Avatar
mryakanisachoad mryakanisachoad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: brooklyn,ny
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 570
Mein Auto: 550xi / 135i / M5
Tesla has to be careful that it doesn't become the "but.." car being defined by its limitations as opposed to being defined by her capabilities.
Reply With Quote
  #132  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:08 AM
MOPAULY's Avatar
MOPAULY MOPAULY is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Spring Mount, PA
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,637
Mein Auto: Many things
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbbrewer View Post
why not?
Simply because I don't think consumers will ever stand for waiting to recharge. Today, you can be back on the road in minutes after refueling. Electric makes you feel like a handicap and I just don't ever see it taking over. Hybrid cars, yes, I think they offer the best of both mileage and efficiency. If I drove an electric car I'd constantly worry about running accessories and options that could drain the batteries faster...with gasoline you don't worry about that kind of thing leaving you stranded.

It was mentioned that the recharging stations are free, but that's just a loss leader until they have more cars on the road. Energy costs money anyway you look at it and eventually you'll be paying to sit there for the hour or hours to recharge your car.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #133  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:09 AM
MOPAULY's Avatar
MOPAULY MOPAULY is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Spring Mount, PA
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,637
Mein Auto: Many things
Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
Tesla has to be careful that it doesn't become the "but.." car being defined by its limitations as opposed to being defined by her capabilities.
In my mind it already has.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #134  
Old 02-21-2013, 04:33 AM
Gurud Gurud is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NY
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 118
Mein Auto: 2013 535ix, 2007 530xiT
Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
That the Tesla is not necessarily suited to long trips in the cold is no more a surprise than my Porsche being unable to tow my boat or seat seven...
Fair enough but no Porsche dealer will claim that you can seat 7...

Tesla, on the other hand, refuses to accept what you just said. I was in their showroom and the salesperson forcefully challenged my concerns around long trips. The company's pitch is built around the mythical 300 mile range. Perhaps they think that otherwise the price tag cannot be justified.
Reply With Quote
  #135  
Old 02-21-2013, 06:54 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Ontario
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,231
Mein Auto: '11 535i, '99 328i retd
Yes... and these designers and salespeople do not realize that driving at 55-60mph on an interstate - which they promote to extend the range - you are causing a LOT of dangerous situations; frantic passing, tailgating, speed variance and other things that may lead to a crash.

Insane, if you ask me....
Reply With Quote
  #136  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:30 AM
swajames swajames is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 996
Mein Auto: Jaguar F-Type V8 S
This is getting ridiculous... Assuming the high capacity battery, Tesla promotes a 300 mile range in normal use which will always assume varied driving patterns. You won't get that if you're driving fast on the freeway any more than you would get anything like decent MPG out of a gas-engined car driven solely at 80mpg.
__________________
2014 Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Range Rover HSE Lux, Orkney Gray, Sand interior
Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible, Midnight Blue, 6-Speed
BMW 550i, BMW 545i
Reply With Quote
  #137  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:36 AM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: DMV (DC, MD, VA)
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,178
Mein Auto: m4now M5M3 550 760 335RIP
Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
That the Tesla is not necessarily suited to long trips in the cold is no more a surprise than my Porsche being unable to tow my boat or seat seven... I really don't see the fuss. it's not a car for everyone. Out here, there are a lot of charging stations and if it were my commute car I'd get a week out of single charge AND I'd get to drive in the HOV lane while flying solo. My friend actually has a Model S, with the high capacity battery, and she's using just as she'd use any other car (she also has a Tesla Roadster). More to the point, I've personally taken a long drive on the freeway in her car, at well over freeway limits, and I have seen first hand the range does NOT drop to 100 miles. Our round trip was probably close to that distance. For your example, you forgot to mention or failed to notice that are of course three battery options. That the smaller capacity battery has a lower range is again no more surprising than you can't go as far with only a third of a tank of gas as you can a full tank. I'd personally not buy the smaller battery but each to their own.
If its a turbo s it shouldn't have any problems.




Seems like it can tow just fine if it needed too
Reply With Quote
  #138  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:41 AM
mryakanisachoad's Avatar
mryakanisachoad mryakanisachoad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: brooklyn,ny
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 570
Mein Auto: 550xi / 135i / M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
This is getting ridiculous... Assuming the high capacity battery, Tesla promotes a 300 mile range in normal use which will always assume varied driving patterns. You won't get that if you're driving fast on the freeway any more than you would get anything like decent MPG out of a gas-engined car driven solely at 80mpg.
Elon Musks dumbest idea ever is smarter than the smartest idea I've ever had.

Perhaps they've focus grouped this thing to death and the only answer they get is that all the market cares about is 300 mile range.

But, that can't be. So why are they so stuck on stupid with this 300 hundred mile range crap? Why not 287.346445 miles!? They're equally arbitrary.

Why not pitch the Model S as the best 200 mile sport sedan ever built? That would get rid of almost every single "but,".

Right now, the automotive press and Mr. Musk are stuck on stupid.

Last edited by mryakanisachoad; 02-21-2013 at 09:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #139  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:11 PM
cordoor's Avatar
cordoor cordoor is offline
cor door sedan
Location: Utah
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 843
Mein Auto: 2013 550i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
You won't get that if you're driving fast on the freeway any more than you would get anything like decent MPG out of a gas-engined car driven solely at 80mpg.
If I drive at 80 as opposed to 65 in my gas powered vehicle, I see a marginal drop in MPG. It's certainly less than 5%.

Recently when I drove to Vegas (from SLC) I averaged 84 mph, and that includes my speed when getting off the freeway to get gas or snacks or whatever (I was between 95 and 105 while on the freeway). I still averaged just under 20 MPG (this was in an E60 535).

You do not see the same kind of drop in range we are talking about with a gas powered vehicle.

Would I still get 285 miles in the best Tesla S by driving it this way?

Battery technology will improve. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it's ready for prime time use as Tesla has defined it.
__________________
2013 550i xDrive | Jet Black | Venetian Beige | Dark Red Sycamore | M Sport | Dynamic Handling | Sport Auto Trans
2008 535xi | Jet Black | Cream Beige | Burl Wood | Sport



See, when the Government spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of Taxpayers, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anything to avoid creating jobs. - Dave Barry
Reply With Quote
  #140  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:27 PM
mryakanisachoad's Avatar
mryakanisachoad mryakanisachoad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: brooklyn,ny
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 570
Mein Auto: 550xi / 135i / M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by cordoor View Post
If I drive at 80 as opposed to 65 in my gas powered vehicle, I see a marginal drop in MPG. It's certainly less than 5%.

Recently when I drove to Vegas (from SLC) I averaged 84 mph, and that includes my speed when getting off the freeway to get gas or snacks or whatever (I was between 95 and 105 while on the freeway). I still averaged just under 20 MPG (this was in an E60 535).

You do not see the same kind of drop in range we are talking about with a gas powered vehicle.

Would I still get 285 miles in the best Tesla S by driving it this way?

Battery technology will improve. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it's ready for prime time use .

MoAr pics please :-)
Reply With Quote
  #141  
Old 02-21-2013, 01:06 PM
swajames swajames is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 996
Mein Auto: Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Quote:
Originally Posted by cordoor View Post
If I drive at 80 as opposed to 65 in my gas powered vehicle, I see a marginal drop in MPG. It's certainly less than 5%.

Recently when I drove to Vegas (from SLC) I averaged 84 mph, and that includes my speed when getting off the freeway to get gas or snacks or whatever (I was between 95 and 105 while on the freeway). I still averaged just under 20 MPG (this was in an E60 535).

You do not see the same kind of drop in range we are talking about with a gas powered vehicle.

Would I still get 285 miles in the best Tesla S by driving it this way?

Battery technology will improve. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it's ready for prime time use as Tesla has defined it.
The difference in fuel consumption between traveling at a constant 65mph and a constant 80mph is likely more than 5%
__________________
2014 Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Range Rover HSE Lux, Orkney Gray, Sand interior
Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible, Midnight Blue, 6-Speed
BMW 550i, BMW 545i
Reply With Quote
  #142  
Old 02-21-2013, 01:24 PM
mryakanisachoad's Avatar
mryakanisachoad mryakanisachoad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: brooklyn,ny
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 570
Mein Auto: 550xi / 135i / M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by cordoor View Post
If I drive at 80 as opposed to 65 in my gas powered vehicle, I see a marginal drop in MPG. It's certainly less than 5%.

Recently when I drove to Vegas (from SLC) I averaged 84 mph, and that includes my speed when getting off the freeway to get gas or snacks or whatever (I was between 95 and 105 while on the freeway). I still averaged just under 20 MPG (this was in an E60 535).

You do not see the same kind of drop in range we are talking about with a gas powered vehicle.

Would I still get 285 miles in the best Tesla S by driving it this way?

Battery technology will improve. But we shouldn't kid ourselves that it's ready for prime time use as Tesla has defined it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
The difference in fuel consumption between traveling at a constant 65mph and a constant 80mph is likely more than 5%
See, this is the sort of stuck on stupid arguments Tesla should avoid. Please don't misconstrue my words as any implication that you're stupid. I know you're not even a little bit stupid.

That said, these sort of it's 5%!!!...no it's 6.5%!!! are reductive arguments and will leave the average consumer bored, annoyed, frustrated and worst of all: confused, about Tesla Motors.

This is America. "The Tesla S is the most kick-ass American made sports sedan in history!" is a much better way to present Tesla Motors. Oh, and this car will get you laid like silly lol.

Last edited by mryakanisachoad; 02-21-2013 at 01:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #143  
Old 02-21-2013, 02:25 PM
cordoor's Avatar
cordoor cordoor is offline
cor door sedan
Location: Utah
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 843
Mein Auto: 2013 550i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
That said, these sort of it's 5%!!!...no it's 6.5%!!! are reductive arguments and will leave the average consumer bored, annoyed, frustrated and worst of all: confused, about Tesla Motors.
Fine and agreed.

(I have nothing more to say now... hehe)
__________________
2013 550i xDrive | Jet Black | Venetian Beige | Dark Red Sycamore | M Sport | Dynamic Handling | Sport Auto Trans
2008 535xi | Jet Black | Cream Beige | Burl Wood | Sport



See, when the Government spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of Taxpayers, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anything to avoid creating jobs. - Dave Barry
Reply With Quote
  #144  
Old 02-21-2013, 04:47 PM
Ralph1201's Avatar
Ralph1201 Ralph1201 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Cleveland
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 382
Mein Auto: 2013 BMW 528i
Quote:
Originally Posted by cordoor View Post
Fine and agreed.

(I have nothing more to say now... hehe)
cordoor - either post bigger pics or stop posting or change your signature
__________________
2013 BMW 528i. My first Car.
Reply With Quote
  #145  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:14 PM
cordoor's Avatar
cordoor cordoor is offline
cor door sedan
Location: Utah
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 843
Mein Auto: 2013 550i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph1201 View Post
cordoor - either post bigger pics or stop posting or change your signature
LOL

You guys are making it all the more difficult to be patient for the vehicle to arrive!

Here's the low quality teaser pick the dealer sent me that I stuck in my sig. It's all I have right now

BTW, how are people getting the pictures to appear in-line in the post as opposed to an attachment?

Click image for larger version

Name:	Interior-Passenger.JPG
Views:	85
Size:	82.3 KB
ID:	363308
__________________
2013 550i xDrive | Jet Black | Venetian Beige | Dark Red Sycamore | M Sport | Dynamic Handling | Sport Auto Trans
2008 535xi | Jet Black | Cream Beige | Burl Wood | Sport



See, when the Government spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of Taxpayers, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anything to avoid creating jobs. - Dave Barry

Last edited by cordoor; 02-21-2013 at 08:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #146  
Old 02-21-2013, 08:44 PM
swajames swajames is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 996
Mein Auto: Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Quote:
Originally Posted by mryakanisachoad View Post
See, this is the sort of stuck on stupid arguments Tesla should avoid. Please don't misconstrue my words as any implication that you're stupid. I know you're not even a little bit stupid.

That said, these sort of it's 5%!!!...no it's 6.5%!!! are reductive arguments and will leave the average consumer bored, annoyed, frustrated and worst of all: confused, about Tesla Motors.

This is America. "The Tesla S is the most kick-ass American made sports sedan in history!" is a much better way to present Tesla Motors. Oh, and this car will get you laid like silly lol.
The problem with that line of thinking is that it's not the "average consumer" who is buying $100K electric cars. This particular car is the preserve of the affluent, sophisticated buyer who is fully aware of the upsides, downsides, benefits and compromises of electric car ownership.

The Model S isn't an impulse purchase, there is a massive waiting list and no factory financing available. The kind of customer willing and able to drop 100K on car like this - and I am one - is well above and isn't remotely interested in the "reductive arguments" cited. Bottom line is you either get this car or you don't, and if you find the compromises or the 100K price objectionable then the car isn't for you. You weren't part of the intended target market.
__________________
2014 Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Range Rover HSE Lux, Orkney Gray, Sand interior
Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible, Midnight Blue, 6-Speed
BMW 550i, BMW 545i
Reply With Quote
  #147  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:01 PM
cordoor's Avatar
cordoor cordoor is offline
cor door sedan
Location: Utah
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 843
Mein Auto: 2013 550i xDrive
Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
...the affluent, sophisticated buyer...is fully aware of the upsides, downsides, benefits and compromises of electric car ownership...
Now there's an assumption!

Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
The kind of customer willing and able to drop 100K on car like this - and I am one - is well above and isn't remotely interested in the "reductive arguments" cited.
Oh the arrogance!

I was apparently interested in the so-called "reductive arguments" and I am able to drop 100K on a car like this, as are many others on this forum. But perhaps the fact that I am not willing to do so excludes me from your bucket of the non-interested.
__________________
2013 550i xDrive | Jet Black | Venetian Beige | Dark Red Sycamore | M Sport | Dynamic Handling | Sport Auto Trans
2008 535xi | Jet Black | Cream Beige | Burl Wood | Sport



See, when the Government spends money, it creates jobs; whereas when the money is left in the hands of Taxpayers, God only knows what they do with it. Bake it into pies, probably. Anything to avoid creating jobs. - Dave Barry
Reply With Quote
  #148  
Old 02-21-2013, 09:18 PM
mryakanisachoad's Avatar
mryakanisachoad mryakanisachoad is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: brooklyn,ny
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 570
Mein Auto: 550xi / 135i / M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
The problem with that line of thinking is that it's not the "average consumer" who is buying $100K electric cars. This particular car is the preserve of the affluent, sophisticated buyer who is fully aware of the upsides, downsides, benefits and compromises of electric car ownership.

The Model S isn't an impulse purchase, there is a massive waiting list and no factory financing available. The kind of customer willing and able to drop 100K on car like this - and I am one - is well above and isn't remotely interested in the "reductive arguments" cited. Bottom line is you either get this car or you don't, and if you find the compromises or the 100K price objectionable then the car isn't for you. You weren't part of the intended target market.
Oh, I see. So you're saying Mr. Musk is full of cow dung when he repeats in every interview that the Roadster and the Model S are only means to an end which is the eventual mass marketing of a Tesla automobile for the general car buyer?
How will you suffer such indignation? lulzz



"I think the sports car is cool, but really we want the mass-market car, that's what we want to get to, as soon as we possibly can. We're trying to grow as fast as we can to do that. I feel pretty confident we can get to a compelling sub-$30,000 car in five years. And one thing I should also point out is although the sedan will be $50,000, because the cost of electricity is so much less than the cost of gasoline and you'll be able to lease our car or finance our car, buying our Model S will be equivalent to buying maybe about a $35,000 gasoline car, when you take into account the lease payments of a gasoline car versus the electric car and the cost of electricity versus gasoline. So it's more affordable than it first seems. Even so, we're working as hard as possible to get to that third generation car.
- Elon Musk."


Mr. Musk should be more careful with his forward looking statements as the boss of a publicly traded company.

For example: in the above encaptioned statement, Mr. Musk very specifically states that "you'll be able to lease our car or finance" ( a Model S).

Are you so insecure that you need to describe yourself as "affluent", sophisticated". With all due respect, you're being kinda tacky, bro.

Goodnight :-)...I have to get suited up for a hockey game.

Last edited by mryakanisachoad; 02-21-2013 at 09:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #149  
Old 02-21-2013, 10:04 PM
swajames swajames is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Silicon Valley
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 996
Mein Auto: Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Musk's own quote tells the story. The Model S isn't the mass market car. That will come in time. Nothing which starts at 50K and up is mass market. The Model S is the technology bridgehead paving the way for the cheaper cars in future. We're talking about the current car, and Musk is, quite obviously, talking about plans for future cars.

Also, as of today, Tesla does not itself finance or lease its cars. You have to go to a third party unless you can write a check for the car.
__________________
2014 Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Range Rover HSE Lux, Orkney Gray, Sand interior
Porsche 911 Carrera S Convertible, Midnight Blue, 6-Speed
BMW 550i, BMW 545i

Last edited by swajames; 02-21-2013 at 10:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #150  
Old 02-22-2013, 07:25 PM
bm323 bm323 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: singapore
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 477
Mein Auto: 2013 F10
Quote:
Originally Posted by swajames View Post
The kind of customer willing and able to drop 100K on car like this - and I am one - is well above and isn't remotely interested in the "reductive arguments" cited.
I missed the earlier posts, meaning you've bought the Tesla S?

Needsdecaf, the above is your type of post.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:32 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms