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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #76  
Old 12-21-2012, 12:05 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Back to the Coding

So I am sitting in my dealer's wait area...pretty nice actually with internet connectivity. I'm getting a tire replaced and an oil change, but here is the Service Info for the recall and coding for my car. My SA gave me the Service Information sheet, summarized as follows
(Defect Code 00 61 70 03 00):

Situation
When programming/coding the control units with an older ISTA/P version (up to and including ISTA/P P2.48.1), the car access system was incorrectly coded. The button to activate the anti-theft alarm on the ID transmitter is not working.

Procedure
Connect battery charger to vehicle
Connect the programming system to the vehicle (ISTA/P)
Determine the measures plan
Accept/work through measures plan with the control units to be programmed/coded
Check Final Report for faults
If required connect the workshop system (ISTA/P) to vehicle, run a vehicle test and clear fault code memory

Note

ISTA/P P2.48.2 or a more recent version is required for programming/coding

That's all I know.
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Last edited by PeterC4; 12-22-2012 at 06:42 AM.
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  #77  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:02 PM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kar Don View Post
easy way to check if yogi's car starts in 1st is when he starts accelerating in D, flip it in DS and hit "-" to see if it does downshift to 1st. If he has sport auto you could just hit the "-" paddle instead of DS
Would not work, as DS automatically downshifts.
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  #78  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:14 PM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Would not work, as DS automatically downshifts.
Even better, would work perfect. If it is already in 1st then it can't downshift. My car didn't have DS so I'm not familiar with it.
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  #79  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:24 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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I suppose you still have not seen the video proof for everything above.
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  #80  
Old 12-21-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
I suppose you still have not seen the video proof for everything above.
Video only shows manual mode....
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  #81  
Old 12-21-2012, 06:26 PM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
Video only shows manual mode....
What?? Did you look a few posts above? D and DS as you guys wanted. Your key to getting your cars fixed at last...
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  #82  
Old 12-21-2012, 08:21 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
What?? Did you look a few posts above? D and DS as you guys wanted. Your key to getting your cars fixed at last...
Okay, even I'm confused...maybe. First, I have a Porsche with an auto and in normal mode it definitely starts in second gear. If you mash the gas pedal it goes into first. In manual mode you can start in any gear you wish, but it defaults to 2nd gear unless you manually move to 1st. So it is definite that some cars start in 2nd. Mercedes did this too in some models as I understand it Anyway, maybe you are on to something. I don't think that in normal mode ("D") my 535 starts in anything other than 1st. BUT, it is quick to shift out of 1st, smoothly and effortlessly unless you step on it. But if you are driving very leisurely I wonder if it does start in second.
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  #83  
Old 12-22-2012, 12:38 AM
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BigDeep1 BigDeep1 is offline
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First off, THANK YOU Yogi for taking the time to film and post the videos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgscott987 View Post
Yogi,

That's a great video and very helpful, but I'm not clear how it shows that the car starts in 1st. How do we know that we're not looking at 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th gear?

If the car does in fact normally start in 2nd gear, I wouldn't say that 1st is reserved for heavy loads, I'd say that 1st is reserved for when you stomp on the gas.

I'm not taking sides on the 1st, 2nd debate- I don't have any meaningful evidence either way. Given BMW's hyper-focus on fuel economy, I tend to lean toward the start-in-second camp though. With normal driving, starting in second would improve fuel economy. Dropping down to first on full-throttle allows for impressive 0-60 numbers as well.
After Yogi's second Youtube video, we can now confirm the RPMs in 1st and 2nd gear. When we take those numbers (I wrote them down) and match them to the RPMs on the first video (driving in D and DS mode), we can come to a clear conclusion that the vehicle IS starting in first gear in D and DS.

Kar Don.....
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  #84  
Old 12-22-2012, 04:54 AM
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The only doubt is the way yogi accelerated in the D mode. It seems like a pretty quick dash ("nice push into the seat"). Like Peter said, if you step hard on the pedal, it will start from first.

Anyway, the issue that we are talking about is not just the dash off the line, but in a mix of coasting and re-accelerating, the general feeling of the gas pedal response (slow). And I think we have sort of concluded that if your car doesn't have the issue, you will have zero clue on what we are dealing with.

Thanks for the video anyway, yogi.
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  #85  
Old 12-22-2012, 07:09 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Douggie,

1. It was a moderate acceleration as stated. I was not trying to deceive you but give you real information
2. Gas was half throttle as stated, to simulate most common scrnario
3. With 300hp that is exactly what produces a 'nice push into the seat'
4. The car always acts like this, whether I floor it or act like someone who's got no idea was the gas pedal is for.
5. As I said before the car has no idea how much gas you will apply so if it had to change from second down to first you would have noticed something very weird in the rpms (which is something I'd like to see anyway, so someone please post the same vid if yours starts in 2nd.

Hope this answers all the doubts.
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  #86  
Old 12-22-2012, 07:15 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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BTW, I'm too experiencing weird and sluggish behaviors while driving... Most noticeably when I'm going 40mph or so and want immediate acceleration, it simply will not happen quickly... I floor it and literally have to wait two seconds for the car to analyze: "it looks like you rally want to go fast, let me see what we can do about this..." It's annoying but i can live with it.

Also, when coming out of each turn, the car sluggishly keeps itself in 3rd or even 4th and I always want the 2nd. To get that, again I need to floor it and wsit and now I've learned to do that halfway through the turn so the right gear awaits me when I'm ready to go straight.
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  #87  
Old 12-22-2012, 07:58 AM
douggie douggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
BTW, I'm too experiencing weird and sluggish behaviors while driving... Most noticeably when I'm going 40mph or so and want immediate acceleration, it simply will not happen quickly... I floor it and literally have to wait two seconds for the car to analyze: "it looks like you rally want to go fast, let me see what we can do about this..." It's annoying but i can live with it.

Also, when coming out of each turn, the car sluggishly keeps itself in 3rd or even 4th and I always want the 2nd. To get that, again I need to floor it and wsit and now I've learned to do that halfway through the turn so the right gear awaits me when I'm ready to go straight.
Yep. This is the hesitation/lag we're talking about. A two second delay can be dangerous if it comes at the wrong time. This is my very first car that I actually felt unsafe to drive, The problem is that the delay is unpredictable. Sometimes it's there and sometimes it isn't.
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  #88  
Old 12-22-2012, 08:46 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Oh, mine is always the same. No unpredictability. Maybe that's our difference. I know what to expect of the car and thus enjoy it a lot. For quick overtaking, i sometimes switch to DS mode.
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  #89  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:30 AM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
BTW, I'm too experiencing weird and sluggish behaviors while driving... Most noticeably when I'm going 40mph or so and want immediate acceleration, it simply will not happen quickly... I floor it and literally have to wait two seconds for the car to analyze: "it looks like you rally want to go fast, let me see what we can do about this..." It's annoying but i can live with it.

Also, when coming out of each turn, the car sluggishly keeps itself in 3rd or even 4th and I always want the 2nd. To get that, again I need to floor it and wsit and now I've learned to do that halfway through the turn so the right gear awaits me when I'm ready to go straight.
If you are willing to do it, I would try a tune. Before I had mine installed I did notice the car was sluggish in D mode, almost coasting with a focus on saving fuel. I installed a Burger JB4 tune - plug and play. It makes a world of difference in both D and DS mode. The tune is relatively inexpensive and I have had no side affects whatsoever. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact the throttle response in D mode is set up to ensure the car is maximizing fuel economy. The tune improves HP and Torque. If you tried it, it would change your perception of the car significantly.
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  #90  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:49 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
BTW, I'm too experiencing weird and sluggish behaviors while driving... Most noticeably when I'm going 40mph or so and want immediate acceleration, it simply will not happen quickly... I floor it and literally have to wait two seconds for the car to analyze: "it looks like you rally want to go fast, let me see what we can do about this..." It's annoying but i can live with it.

Also, when coming out of each turn, the car sluggishly keeps itself in 3rd or even 4th and I always want the 2nd. To get that, again I need to floor it and wsit and now I've learned to do that halfway through the turn so the right gear awaits me when I'm ready to go straight.
This is what plagued me forever. The new software has helped this a LOT.
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #91  
Old 12-22-2012, 10:17 AM
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My local dealership accepted my rather vague complaint of rough idle and throttle delay and, without question or delay, updated the software. I had tried the adaptive parameter reset as mentioned above and the software update makes the car drive better, at first impression, than the reset did three weeks ago. The SA who gave my car back to me this morning said that this is a known problem on the first F10s.
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  #92  
Old 12-22-2012, 11:24 AM
yogi799 yogi799 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
If you are willing to do it, I would try a tune. Before I had mine installed I did notice the car was sluggish in D mode, almost coasting with a focus on saving fuel. I installed a Burger JB4 tune - plug and play. It makes a world of difference in both D and DS mode. The tune is relatively inexpensive and I have had no side affects whatsoever. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact the throttle response in D mode is set up to ensure the car is maximizing fuel economy. The tune improves HP and Torque. If you tried it, it would change your perception of the car significantly.
I think there are TWO reasons for it.

1. Fuel consumption. The car does not "jump" on your request to go fast in hopes that perhaps you didn't really want to (or need to!) accelerate so much. Unfortunately, it doesn't realize that many of us are driving enthusiasts and we really meant it!

2. 8 speed tranny. There is simply too many gears to read the driver's intention right and nail it at the first attempt. When I floor it, I feel the tranny shift immediately, but to a too high of a gear, so it has to correct it, which takes even more time. Coasting at 40mph would typically mean the 7th gear, for example. When you gun it, the car is not sure if it should down**** to 3rd or 4th... So it waits for a split second to make sure it is reading your intention right, it may even down**** to the 5th for a moment, and then finally put me in the 3rd or so. That process takes eternity, but it was sort of similar in my E46 but since there were only 5 gears, it got the right gear a tad faster. DS is always more responsive, of course, and gets me a huge boost of power in half the time.

Needs, you've mentioned a recent update. I had a comprehensive one applied 2 months ago and no change. Did you get something more recent? Plus, the hell would it not solve your hesitation and surge problem at take off?? Use my vids...

All in all, this is not too worrisome. I can still enjoy the car and if it saves a tonne of gas by being a bit lazy....
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  #93  
Old 12-22-2012, 12:12 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
I think there are TWO reasons for it.

1. Fuel consumption. The car does not "jump" on your request to go fast in hopes that perhaps you didn't really want to (or need to!) accelerate so much. Unfortunately, it doesn't realize that many of us are driving enthusiasts and we really meant it!

2. 8 speed tranny. There is simply too many gears to read the driver's intention right and nail it at the first attempt. When I floor it, I feel the tranny shift immediately, but to a too high of a gear, so it has to correct it, which takes even more time. Coasting at 40mph would typically mean the 7th gear, for example. When you gun it, the car is not sure if it should down**** to 3rd or 4th... So it waits for a split second to make sure it is reading your intention right, it may even down**** to the 5th for a moment, and then finally put me in the 3rd or so. That process takes eternity, but it was sort of similar in my E46 but since there were only 5 gears, it got the right gear a tad faster. DS is always more responsive, of course, and gets me a huge boost of power in half the time.

Needs, you've mentioned a recent update. I had a comprehensive one applied 2 months ago and no change. Did you get something more recent? Plus, the hell would it not solve your hesitation and surge problem at take off?? Use my vids...

All in all, this is not too worrisome. I can still enjoy the car and if it saves a tonne of gas by being a bit lazy....
I agree. Fuel consumption was a key consideration. The 8 speeds is also unnecessary in my view, far too many gears to row through. When I use manual mode with my paddles, I'm constantly pumping down the gears...it's too much. I find that the tune does not really cause a lot of increased fuel consumption by itself. You drive faster sure, but in every day mode, it simply takes away the sluggishness.
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  #94  
Old 12-22-2012, 11:45 PM
douggie douggie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yogi799 View Post
I think there are TWO reasons for it.

1. Fuel consumption. The car does not "jump" on your request to go fast in hopes that perhaps you didn't really want to (or need to!) accelerate so much. Unfortunately, it doesn't realize that many of us are driving enthusiasts and we really meant it!

2. 8 speed tranny. There is simply too many gears to read the driver's intention right and nail it at the first attempt. When I floor it, I feel the tranny shift immediately, but to a too high of a gear, so it has to correct it, which takes even more time. Coasting at 40mph would typically mean the 7th gear, for example. When you gun it, the car is not sure if it should down**** to 3rd or 4th... So it waits for a split second to make sure it is reading your intention right, it may even down**** to the 5th for a moment, and then finally put me in the 3rd or so. That process takes eternity, but it was sort of similar in my E46 but since there were only 5 gears, it got the right gear a tad faster. DS is always more responsive, of course, and gets me a huge boost of power in half the time.

Needs, you've mentioned a recent update. I had a comprehensive one applied 2 months ago and no change. Did you get something more recent? Plus, the hell would it not solve your hesitation and surge problem at take off?? Use my vids...

All in all, this is not too worrisome. I can still enjoy the car and if it saves a tonne of gas by being a bit lazy....
The hardware is fine. It's just the software that's causing the lags and hesitation. If the hardware is the problem, things will still be bad in DS, sport, sport+, sport++++++++ modes.

All I want is a "daily driving" mode that has the throttle responsiveness of the DS mode, but without the gear holding at high rpms. Don't tell me that I have to toggle back and forth just to overtake. I'd buy a manual transmission if I want to mess with the shifter.

If they made the car laggy just because of fuel consumption, they're targeting the wrong audience. I'd buy a prius if I wanted good gas mileage.
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  #95  
Old 12-23-2012, 05:08 AM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douggie View Post
The hardware is fine. It's just the software that's causing the lags and hesitation. If the hardware is the problem, things will still be bad in DS, sport, sport+, sport++++++++ modes.

All I want is a "daily driving" mode that has the throttle responsiveness of the DS mode, but without the gear holding at high rpms. Don't tell me that I have to toggle back and forth just to overtake. I'd buy a manual transmission if I want to mess with the shifter.

If they made the car laggy just because of fuel consumption, they're targeting the wrong audience. I'd buy a prius if I wanted good gas mileage.
Get a tune. Burger JB4. That will do it.
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  #96  
Old 12-23-2012, 05:18 AM
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Needsdecaf Needsdecaf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douggie View Post
The hardware is fine. It's just the software that's causing the lags and hesitation. If the hardware is the problem, things will still be bad in DS, sport, sport+, sport++++++++ modes.

All I want is a "daily driving" mode that has the throttle responsiveness of the DS mode, but without the gear holding at high rpms. Don't tell me that I have to toggle back and forth just to overtake. I'd buy a manual transmission if I want to mess with the shifter.

If they made the car laggy just because of fuel consumption, they're targeting the wrong audience. I'd buy a prius if I wanted good gas mileage.
I don't think they did it just because of fuel economy. The newer cars I have driven have driven much better.

Also, the 2.48.1 software has really helped the throttle response when under way. I'm going to bring my car back in and get 2.48.2 and see what happens there.
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Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians

Last edited by Needsdecaf; 12-23-2012 at 05:20 AM.
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  #97  
Old 12-23-2012, 10:33 AM
snj1013 snj1013 is online now
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Which dealer are you going to in Houston? I have an appointment later this week at Houston North and hopefully my car will get the latest update.
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  #98  
Old 12-23-2012, 10:49 AM
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BMW of the Woodlands. Going to call Wednesday and make an appointment for the following week.
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2011 535i
Sophisto Grau / Oyster - Black Nappa, Anthracite Wood Gone but not forgotten.

Heaven is where the police are British, the cooks are French, the cars are German, the lovers are Italian and it is all organised by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the cooks are English, the cars are French, the lovers are Swiss, and it is all organised by the Italians
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  #99  
Old 12-23-2012, 02:13 PM
jgscott987 jgscott987 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douggie View Post
All I want is a "daily driving" mode that has the throttle responsiveness of the DS mode, but without the gear holding at high rpms.
Precisely!
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  #100  
Old 12-23-2012, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
Get a tune. Burger JB4. That will do it.
I know. I've already installed a sprint booster and it's already much better. But it's the thought of getting a sub-par (brand new) car with un-refined software that is disturbing. It's extra insulting when it's a BMW that is claims to be the "Ultimate Driving Machine".

If the car drives like a real "Ultimate Driving Machine" and the sound system sucks, has no GPS Nav or Idrive, I think I'd still be ok. Still unhappy, but not pissed.

I'll try to argue with them again to get my car updated to the 2.48.2.
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