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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 12-16-2012, 09:59 AM
twhisten twhisten is offline
Drive it like u stole it!
Location: New Jersey
 
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Transmission question

I have a 2011 premium X5 and have had some issues with a tramsmission malfunction.
Last year, the truck would not come out of park. Towed it to dealer, a week later, dealership tells me that the mechatronics were replaced and it was good to go.
Last Saturday, truck wouldnt even start in my garage, went into Idrive, and transmission malfunction, yet again.
Towed to dealership, another week later, calls me and says truck fine.
Disconnected battery for 15 minutes, truck started, ran fine.......WTF!!!
I called BMWNA last Monday and started a claim with them.
After first time that I was stranded, wife refused to drive the car.......which was hers BTW.
I drove it from time to time, just to stretch its legs a bit.
I am waiting on BMWNA to call me back to see if they will get me out of my truck, which is a finance, since I now refuse to drive it.
The dealership has absolutely no explanation as to what is going on with the truck.
Electrical problem??
Anybody else have any issues??
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1997 328i- retired
2007 328i- retired- lease
2006 330xi- retired
2011 335xi-PCD-12/13/10 - DINAN3-----retired
2013 M3-Laguna Seca-6 speed-EDC

2006 X5- retired
2011 X5- retired- buy back

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  #2  
Old 12-16-2012, 10:14 AM
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dcharnet dcharnet is offline
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Very uncomfortable place to be, for sure. Good luck with them taking the X5 back unless you have a claim under NJ lemon laws. Check that first. If not, go up the chain and have them go to the next level of tech consult. Be persistent but civil.
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  #3  
Old 12-16-2012, 05:12 PM
ard ard is offline
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Location: CA
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twhisten View Post
I have a 2011 premium X5 and have had some issues with a tramsmission malfunction.
Last year, the truck would not come out of park. Towed it to dealer, a week later, dealership tells me that the mechatronics were replaced and it was good to go.
Last Saturday, truck wouldnt even start in my garage, went into Idrive, and transmission malfunction, yet again.
Towed to dealership, another week later, calls me and says truck fine.
Disconnected battery for 15 minutes, truck started, ran fine.......WTF!!!
I called BMWNA last Monday and started a claim with them.
After first time that I was stranded, wife refused to drive the car.......which was hers BTW.
I drove it from time to time, just to stretch its legs a bit.
I am waiting on BMWNA to call me back to see if they will get me out of my truck, which is a finance, since I now refuse to drive it.
The dealership has absolutely no explanation as to what is going on with the truck.
Electrical problem??
Anybody else have any issues??
[harsh on]

You have no clue what you are doing.

You wrote the dealer "said"... NOTHING THEY SAY MATTERS. What is on the paperwork????? THIS IS WHAT COUNTS!!! You seem to be a 'verbal' kind of customer, which is PERFECT for BMWNA to avoid taking the car back.

If you were to spend some time looking around for threads on people in "Lemon" situations you will find the following:

1. Unless you get a detailed DOCUMENTATION of the faults and work done, you will have nothing to leverage. You will never achieve the legally required items to force a lemon buyback

2. Calling BMWNA prior to reaching the lemon threshold is stupid. They simply tell you happy talk over the phone, then circle back to the dealer to find out what the story is- once they detetrmine that you've only bought it in twice and the faults the dealer wrote down are unrelated, they'll tell you "oh, just brinmg it to the dealer'. They train the customer relations peopel VERY carefully to sound concerned and serious- to really give you the sense that they are serious; that they will be doing 'right by you'. All they are doing is freezing you and circling the wagons.

3. BMWNA is NOT going to let you out of your finaicinging becuase your wife refuses to drive it. Until you have met the lemon threshold, they will force you back to the dealer. By contacting them prematurely you have screwed up big time- you've guaranteed the dealer will do whatever is necessary to avoid giving you that lemon claim. (3 times same repair, over 30 days, etc, etc) BMWNA and the dealer are now 'on notice'- they will be very careful when you return.


Now, Ive engineered a lemon claim myself and helped a few folks out with theirs..... BMW (and all mfgs) purposefully do not make it easy. You are trying to force them to eat a deal- people seem to be surprised when they dont roll out the red carpet. You need to do your homework, create the paper trail and THEN drop the hammer. YOU need to do the legwork, otherwise you will just get screwed over, frustrated and bitter.

IMO

A
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Last edited by ard; 12-16-2012 at 05:16 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-16-2012, 08:14 PM
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dcharnet dcharnet is offline
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"No clue what you are doing." "Stupid." Screwed up big time."

What nonsense.

Here is the essence of the lemon law in N.J:

"(1) Substantially the same nonconformity (not likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is dr iven) has been subject to repair three or more times by the manufacturer or its dealer and the nonconformity continues to exist; or
(2) The vehicle is out of service due to repair for one or more nonconformities for a cumulative total of 20 or more calendar days (45 or more calendar days for a motorhome) since the original delivery of the motor vehicle and a nonconformity continues to exist; or
(3) A nonconformity that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven has been subject to examination or repair at least once by the manufacturer or its dealer and the nonconformity continues to exist.

The only part Ard and I agree on is that they will not take it back unless it happens once more. It is overreacting to just assume that they would lie about different causes. Generically , you have a "transmission malfunction" with "substantially" the same symptoms. I do this for a living, broadly speaking--apply facts to statutes and litigate over it---and I have sued BMW in the past. If the same thing happens again I think that you have a decent case. I suggest that you read the entire NJ statute, which of course is available online. As a precaution, look carefully at the worksheets generated the two times you were there, and make a judgment about whether they appear to be setting you up for a"different problems" defense. If you see an issue, take it up with the dealer and do the best you can to make a record, especially that you dispute that the two events were different, and why; or if you are really concerned, consult a NJ lawyer who knows this area. You are not stupid, nor have you screwed it up, but you need to know exactly what the NJ statute says.

Last edited by dcharnet; 12-16-2012 at 08:46 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-16-2012, 08:56 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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OP!

if you want this vehicle bought back and officially declared a lemon, don't expect BMW to wipe your tears or anything else for that matter. You have to be proactive in procuring documents that substantiate your case that this vehicle has a lingering issue and do not be overly verbal (that doesnt mean dont be concise and clear).

the lemon law case you so far are presenting is not enough for BMW to take action upon.

Your issue is that your car has a defective transmission.

The first incidence of this defect was last year:
You need: A) the service history from that exact date, documenting that you came in experiencing a transmission error. They need to have clearly indicated on the work order.

The Second incidence of this defect was last Saturday:
You need: A) the service history from last saturday , documenting that you came in experiencing a transmission error. They need to have clearly indicated on the work order.

The Third incidence of this defect was X date from now:
You need: A) the service history from X date , documenting that you came in experiencing a transmission error. They need to have clearly indicated on the work order.

This is the bare minimum in accordance with the statue listed above. I am not a lawyer, just using the statues above so my advice is as good as Stewie from Family Guy.

Hope that helps!
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  #6  
Old 12-17-2012, 12:04 AM
ard ard is offline
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Location: CA
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcharnet View Post
"No clue what you are doing." "Stupid." Screwed up big time."

What nonsense.

Here is the essence of the lemon law in N.J:

"(1) Substantially the same nonconformity (not likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is dr iven) has been subject to repair three or more times by the manufacturer or its dealer and the nonconformity continues to exist; or
(2) The vehicle is out of service due to repair for one or more nonconformities for a cumulative total of 20 or more calendar days (45 or more calendar days for a motorhome) since the original delivery of the motor vehicle and a nonconformity continues to exist; or
(3) A nonconformity that is likely to cause death or serious bodily injury if the vehicle is driven has been subject to examination or repair at least once by the manufacturer or its dealer and the nonconformity continues to exist.

The only part Ard and I agree on is that they will not take it back unless it happens once more. It is overreacting to just assume that they would lie about different causes. Generically , you have a "transmission malfunction" with "substantially" the same symptoms. I do this for a living, broadly speaking--apply facts to statutes and litigate over it---and I have sued BMW in the past. If the same thing happens again I think that you have a decent case. I suggest that you read the entire NJ statute, which of course is available online. As a precaution, look carefully at the worksheets generated the two times you were there, and make a judgment about whether they appear to be setting you up for a"different problems" defense. If you see an issue, take it up with the dealer and do the best you can to make a record, especially that you dispute that the two events were different, and why; or if you are really concerned, consult a NJ lawyer who knows this area. You are not stupid, nor have you screwed it up, but you need to know exactly what the NJ statute says.
I respect your legal perspective...

But the tactical mistake he made is showing his intention and doing this too early...

Your advice to 'look at the work sheets' and 'try you best to make a record' are commendable. BUT he tipped his hand too early. You think not? OK. Let's see how he does. You recommend speaking to a lawyer? The lawyer will look at his paperwork and say 'based on what te documented as the faults, these are unrelated

I base my advice on real world practical tactics that actually will achieve the documentation a lawyer needs to press a claim. He can talk to all the lawyers he wants, if he has mismanaged the dealer and failed to get the same fault documented, all the legal fees in the world will not make it a lemon claim.


Op. I may be harsh, but I do hope you get this issue addresses
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2012, 01:57 AM
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dcharnet dcharnet is offline
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I certainly agree that, going forward, the best advice is to document issues with as much specificity as possible, even to the point of insisting that your version of events be quoted verbatim in the service report. My point is that these cases are decided by non- engineer judges or juries who will be interpreting "substantially the same nonconformity." What is the nonconformity here? Arguably, it is that "transmission problems" made the vehicle undrivable. Does that mean that if there are different technical issues with the transmission each time it is a different non-conformity? Of course BMW can argue that, but my "honed sense" of this is that a broader more common sense consumer-oriented interpretation would be given to the statutory language. I have never had a lemon law case and have not researched appellate case law on this point. My suit against BMW was a products liability claim based on a vehicle fire. They did not take that issue seriously until suit was filed. Then they settled quickly. My intention in these posts is to encourage twhisten to move forward with this theory if problems persist and not be persuaded that "he has blown it." I strongly disagree with Ard on that, although I certainly respect his knowledge in general based on his many worthwhile (although too-frequently acerbic!) posts on this forum and repeat that, going forward, a detailed paper trail is generally good.

Last edited by dcharnet; 12-18-2012 at 02:07 AM.
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2013, 05:58 PM
twhisten twhisten is offline
Drive it like u stole it!
Location: New Jersey
 
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Just an update for those of you that responded and felt that I was stupid or jumped the gun.......
Tomorrow, I am going up to the dealer to order a 2013 X5, to replace the one that BMWNA is taking back as a trade assist.
It took a little doing, and a few phone calls, but NA was very good and understood my frustrations.
The dealership was also a help, to keep the ball moving.

BTW, I contacted NA on the advice of several people, since BMW is one of the few companies that wants to keep their customers satisfied and coming back to the product.
I will post pics once I get the new truck!
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1997 328i- retired
2007 328i- retired- lease
2006 330xi- retired
2011 335xi-PCD-12/13/10 - DINAN3-----retired
2013 M3-Laguna Seca-6 speed-EDC

2006 X5- retired
2011 X5- retired- buy back

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  #9  
Old 01-10-2013, 06:26 PM
ard ard is offline
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Say, where's that emoticon of the guy eating his hat???



Glad to hear. At the end of the day, all of us want what is best for each owner....

A
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2013, 06:43 PM
twhisten twhisten is offline
Drive it like u stole it!
Location: New Jersey
 
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OK.....so I went to the dealer today and built a 2013 X5d......figured the diesel would be better......Any opinions on the diesel? Do they run well, any problems? I test drove one today and I love the low end torque. How is the gas mileage?
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1997 328i- retired
2007 328i- retired- lease
2006 330xi- retired
2011 335xi-PCD-12/13/10 - DINAN3-----retired
2013 M3-Laguna Seca-6 speed-EDC

2006 X5- retired
2011 X5- retired- buy back

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  #11  
Old 01-11-2013, 09:22 PM
ard ard is offline
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Gas?

no gas, diesels use fuel.

Welcome to the world of "arent diesel drivers just nerdy dicks?"

Lots of posts on diesels..LOTS.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:31 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twhisten View Post
BTW, I contacted NA on the advice of several people, since BMW is one of the few companies that wants to keep their customers satisfied and coming back to the product.
Not to be too harsh about BMW NA or to discount that "BMW is one of the few companies that wants to keep their customers satisfied and coming back to the product;" however...

I think you have more to owe your dealer than BMW NA. I have seen cases where BMW NA has been extremely recalcitrant to address an obvious lemon, and other case, as yours, where they have been quite reasonable. My suspicion/conclusion is that the difference in these cases probably has a lot to do with how firmly your dealer goes to bat for you with BMW NA.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:45 PM
ard ard is offline
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Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
Not to be too harsh about BMW NA or to discount that "BMW is one of the few companies that wants to keep their customers satisfied and coming back to the product;" however...

I think you have more to owe your dealer than BMW NA. I have seen cases where BMW NA has been extremely recalcitrant to address an obvious lemon, and other case, as yours, where they have been quite reasonable. My suspicion/conclusion is that the difference in these cases probably has a lot to do with how firmly your dealer goes to bat for you with BMW NA.
99% agree.

the other 1% is how 'fat' the deal is...people at MSRP get really spiffy service from dealers.



A

PS not saying that is the OP here...
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Old 01-12-2013, 08:33 AM
twhisten twhisten is offline
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I didnt pay MSRP....in fact, I paid 500 over invoice for the X5....I also have a 335, and paid 500 under invoice. The dealer did help out greatly. In fact, NA called me at first offering me $3,500, for my inconvenience....I tried not to laugh at her on the phone.
The GSM did go to bat for me with NA, and they agreed to do the trade assist.
Cant wait to see the new 35d.......
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1997 328i- retired
2007 328i- retired- lease
2006 330xi- retired
2011 335xi-PCD-12/13/10 - DINAN3-----retired
2013 M3-Laguna Seca-6 speed-EDC

2006 X5- retired
2011 X5- retired- buy back

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  #15  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:38 AM
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DrT DrT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twhisten View Post
Just an update for those of you that responded and felt that I was stupid or jumped the gun.......
Tomorrow, I am going up to the dealer to order a 2013 X5, to replace the one that BMWNA is taking back as a trade assist.
It took a little doing, and a few phone calls, but NA was very good and understood my frustrations.
The dealership was also a help, to keep the ball moving.

BTW, I contacted NA on the advice of several people, since BMW is one of the few companies that wants to keep their customers satisfied and coming back to the product.
I will post pics once I get the new truck!
I am happy for you that things worked out. Keep in mind that this is a forum and acerbic commentary is the norm.
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