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  #1  
Old 07-18-2004, 02:58 PM
kchilaka kchilaka is offline
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Question 2000 750il vs 2001 740i sport

Buying a used 7-series has been a decision of the heart over mind for me, deciding not to go for a 2004 Acura-TL or Infiniti-G35 and going for a used 7-Series instead. However, I have the following two options and I want to make the right decision here. I am currently trying to decide between a 2000 750il and a 2001 740i sport. Both have similar mileage (40k) and both seem to be in good shape. The thing is, the 2001 740i is a couple grand more than the 2000 750il. Now I want to keep two things in mind when making a decision here..
1. Value & Depreciation.
2. Acceleration & Handling.

The way I see it is the 750il is the better value here..but will probably depreciate faster than the 740i sport.

Acceleration will possibly go to the 750il . Even though its 250-300 pounds heavier than the 740i sport, it has more power and much more torque.
In the handling dept, the 740i is smaller and has the sport suspension. On the other hand, the 750il has the EDC which has a sport mode which stiffens the shocks...hmm tough call..

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2004, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchilaka

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
"Value and Depreciation": Ok, so I know what you'd think at first-- the 750 obviously cost more new, so it must be a better value used, no? Definately not... in fact, be VERY CAREFUL with 750s. They're much pricier to maintain (all the normal 7 series items, plus all the extra V12 related expenses). Also, believe it or not, they're worth very little more than a comparable 740, so this 750 is not necessarily a "steal" at the same price as the 740. For what it's worth, the 740i Sport is the most desireable of the E38s and hold the most value, the the 740iL coming next.

Unless you just have to have a V12 (and want to take all the problems and headaches that go along with owning one), buy yourself a nice 740i or 740iL and be happy with it. They're still not problem free, but they're much better than the V12 models.
  #3  
Old 07-18-2004, 04:54 PM
kchilaka kchilaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
"Value and Depreciation": Ok, so I know what you'd think at first-- the 750 obviously cost more new, so it must be a better value used, no? Definately not... in fact, be VERY CAREFUL with 750s. They're much pricier to maintain (all the normal 7 series items, plus all the extra V12 related expenses). Also, believe it or not, they're worth very little more than a comparable 740, so this 750 is not necessarily a "steal" at the same price as the 740. For what it's worth, the 740i Sport is the most desireable of the E38s and hold the most value, the the 740iL coming next.

Unless you just have to have a V12 (and want to take all the problems and headaches that go along with owning one), buy yourself a nice 740i or 740iL and be happy with it. They're still not problem free, but they're much better than the V12 models.

Ok. I was suspecting that was the case.. sigh..The thing is, the 750il comes with a 100k mile warranty and I guess thats what made it desirable in the first place and it just seems "more car" for the dough (yes yes, that does indeed sound silly). The 740i does not come with a long term warranty (just a couple of months left on the dealer warranty). I didnt know that the 740i sport is the most desirable...
  #4  
Old 07-18-2004, 05:04 PM
philippek philippek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
"Value and Depreciation": Ok, so I know what you'd think at first-- the 750 obviously cost more new, so it must be a better value used, no? Definately not... in fact, be VERY CAREFUL with 750s. They're much pricier to maintain (all the normal 7 series items, plus all the extra V12 related expenses). Also, believe it or not, they're worth very little more than a comparable 740, so this 750 is not necessarily a "steal" at the same price as the 740. For what it's worth, the 740i Sport is the most desireable of the E38s and hold the most value, the the 740iL coming next.

Unless you just have to have a V12 (and want to take all the problems and headaches that go along with owning one), buy yourself a nice 740i or 740iL and be happy with it. They're still not problem free, but they're much better than the V12 models.


All of the E38s have taken a big tumble at the auction block lately, but 750s are by far the worst, for all of the above reasons, plus abysmal fuel economy. They're pretty much sale-proof.
  #5  
Old 07-18-2004, 05:10 PM
kchilaka kchilaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philippek


All of the E38s have taken a big tumble at the auction block lately, but 750s are by far the worst, for all of the above reasons, plus abysmal fuel economy. They're pretty much sale-proof.
Ok. You guys have nearly spooked me out of getting a 750 ! ..But I do appreciate the advice..32k for a 750il with 40k miles.... sigh.. now I guess I know why thats the going price..no resale at all... maybe I should go look at the chrysler 300c lol.. or the TL...
  #6  
Old 07-18-2004, 06:53 PM
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You could always purchase an extended warranty on the 740i. You could also locate on CPO from a dealer.
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  #7  
Old 07-18-2004, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXE39
You could always purchase an extended warranty on the 740i. You could also locate on CPO from a dealer.
If you want the good from a 750 but without all the headaches, why not search for a well-equipped CPO 740iL with the toys (adaptive ride package, active seats, etc.)?
  #8  
Old 07-18-2004, 07:48 PM
kchilaka kchilaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
If you want the good from a 750 but without all the headaches, why not search for a well-equipped CPO 740iL with the toys (adaptive ride package, active seats, etc.)?
I am not really looking for the toys at all. Just looking for the best performance for the buck. The adaptive ride is attractive only because I assume its going to help the handling big time. The main allure of the 750il to me is the bad boy V12. About the headaches of a 750il. What is it about the 750il thats problematic. Is the engine inherently unreliable? It seems that the only difference between a loaded 740il and a 750il is the engine. You know, the funny thing is, the 3rd party insurance companies think the 740i and the 750il are equally reliable or rather equally expensive to maintain, because the quotes from 3rd party insurance companies are very similar for both the models. I did test drive the 750il but I havent test driven the 740i sport. I wonder if the 740i will blow me away with its handling. The reviews online for the 740i are nothing but raves. Are there any owners of the 740i sport on here?
  #9  
Old 07-18-2004, 07:56 PM
kchilaka kchilaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchilaka
I am not really looking for the toys at all. Just looking for the best performance for the buck. The adaptive ride is attractive only because I assume its going to help the handling big time. The main allure of the 750il to me is the bad boy V12. About the headaches of a 750il. What is it about the 750il thats problematic. Is the engine inherently unreliable? It seems that the only difference between a loaded 740il and a 750il is the engine. You know, the funny thing is, the 3rd party insurance companies think the 740i and the 750il are equally reliable or rather equally expensive to maintain, because the quotes from 3rd party insurance companies are very similar for both the models. I did test drive the 750il but I havent test driven the 740i sport. I wonder if the 740i will blow me away with its handling. The reviews online for the 740i are nothing but raves. Are there any owners of the 740i sport on here?
Oh I wanted to add, the 750il comes with the sport package, which in the 750 adds only the sport wheels, the redwood interior and the shadowline trim..
  #10  
Old 07-18-2004, 10:35 PM
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First of all, do test drive the 740i Sport. I'd say the choice of the V8 or V12 is personal. You have to decide which is best for you, or which fits your needs and wants. I never considered a 750iL because I just don't see the need for the extra engine. But that's just me.

Either one will have some pricey maintenaince costs. We covered that in a previous thread, though. Consider a warranty for either, but not all are created equal. Be sure to read the fine print.

I am curious about your resale question. Do you not plan to keep the car that long? I ran my E30 until it was 17 years old (195K miles) and I expect the E38 to have a similar life with me, so I don't think about the resale value.

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  #11  
Old 07-19-2004, 06:27 AM
kchilaka kchilaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Wong
First of all, do test drive the 740i Sport. I'd say the choice of the V8 or V12 is personal. You have to decide which is best for you, or which fits your needs and wants. I never considered a 750iL because I just don't see the need for the extra engine. But that's just me.

Either one will have some pricey maintenaince costs. We covered that in a previous thread, though. Consider a warranty for either, but not all are created equal. Be sure to read the fine print.

I am curious about your resale question. Do you not plan to keep the car that long? I ran my E30 until it was 17 years old (195K miles) and I expect the E38 to have a similar life with me, so I don't think about the resale value.

Oh I was planning to keep it for about 5 years. The thing is, I dont want the car to be worth like $10000 5 years from now, but It sure looks that way. Pricey maintenance costs . I will do a search for the thread you are talking about. Yes, it looks like a warranty is a must have for these cars. Yeah, I have been burnt by a third party warranty when I didnt read the fine print the last time. This time I am making sure the brakes , shocks , hoses and belts are covered, that always seems the first to go. As you rightly pointed out, a test drive of the 740i sport will help compare the 750 and the 740. The 750 felt like an extremely large car, but then thats probably because I am coming from a honda. Maybe the 740 will feel more agile. Also, the 740 has the slick widescreen Nav which always helps.
  #12  
Old 07-19-2004, 08:38 AM
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It was your thread "Buying a used 750iL" that I was thinking of...
Your previous post

I switched to the wide screen NAV in my 2000. Cost was $650 but I sold my old 4X3 NAV on e-bay for a couple hundred bucks and it made the upgrade more reasonably priced.
Widescreen NAV


You will likely pay alot for a warranty that also covers wear parts. Brakes, shocks, etc. I like my CPO because it covers the big ticket items, though I have to be ready to pay out of pocket for brakes and such. Not to sound negative, but if $$$ is a real concern, I'd be very cautious about buying the E38.

Good luck! They are wonderful cars!

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  #13  
Old 07-19-2004, 10:25 AM
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I'm curious on what the cost was for the 2001 740i sport. The reason is I just turned in my 2001 740i with 25000 miles (after 3 years) which I hated to part with, but the lease deal on a new 745i turned out better for me than re-leasing mine.

I could have bought mine back and then resold it, and I think I know what the dealer will retail it for, so just want to see what you got for a deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kchilaka
Buying a used 7-series has been a decision of the heart over mind for me, deciding not to go for a 2004 Acura-TL or Infiniti-G35 and going for a used 7-Series instead. However, I have the following two options and I want to make the right decision here. I am currently trying to decide between a 2000 750il and a 2001 740i sport. Both have similar mileage (40k) and both seem to be in good shape. The thing is, the 2001 740i is a couple grand more than the 2000 750il. Now I want to keep two things in mind when making a decision here..
1. Value & Depreciation.
2. Acceleration & Handling.

The way I see it is the 750il is the better value here..but will probably depreciate faster than the 740i sport.

Acceleration will possibly go to the 750il . Even though its 250-300 pounds heavier than the 740i sport, it has more power and much more torque.
In the handling dept, the 740i is smaller and has the sport suspension. On the other hand, the 750il has the EDC which has a sport mode which stiffens the shocks...hmm tough call..

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
  #14  
Old 07-19-2004, 10:47 AM
kchilaka kchilaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky
I'm curious on what the cost was for the 2001 740i sport. The reason is I just turned in my 2001 740i with 25000 miles (after 3 years) which I hated to part with, but the lease deal on a new 745i turned out better for me than re-leasing mine.

I could have bought mine back and then resold it, and I think I know what the dealer will retail it for, so just want to see what you got for a deal.
The 2001 740i sport was going for 34500 with 42k miles. The dealer would have probably come down to 33000. I wish owners of 740i sports would directly sell to other buyers rather than trade in and give the dealer the profit. Oh well..
  #15  
Old 07-19-2004, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchilaka
The main allure of the 750il to me is the bad boy V12. About the headaches of a 750il. What is it about the 750il thats problematic. Is the engine inherently unreliable?
The engine itself is reliable. The problem arises from the fact that the car has two of many of the major parts (basically like the car has 2 6-cylinder engines), so maintenance and regular repairs end up running you twice as much as a normal car. Also, many of the electrical "goodies" that are standard on the 750 were either expensive and not popular as options on the 740, or not available at all. When these parts break/wear (the adaptive suspension comes to mind), it'll cost you alot to fix.
  #16  
Old 07-19-2004, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
The engine itself is reliable. The problem arises from the fact that the car has two of many of the major parts (basically like the car has 2 6-cylinder engines), so maintenance and regular repairs end up running you twice as much as a normal car. Also, many of the electrical "goodies" that are standard on the 750 were either expensive and not popular as options on the 740, or not available at all. When these parts break/wear (the adaptive suspension comes to mind), it'll cost you alot to fix.
Two 6-cylinder engines welded together huh.. Well, looks like BMW took a low-tech approach to this one. It is SOHC , and 2 valves per cylinder. Having said that:god, does it pull smoothly. and the sound when your standing outside is well, oh so cool.. The adaptive suspension is standard on the 750il alright. I wonder if the adaptive in sport mode can help the 750il keep up with the 740i-sport on a curvy road. I wonder, if anyone has compared the performance of these cars. The power/weight is probably similar. Maybe the gearing will give the 740i the edge.

ps.
Here is an interesting tidbit..A 2001 540i with the sports package costs the same as a 2001 740i with sport package. That is serious depreciation.
  #17  
Old 07-19-2004, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchilaka
Two 6-cylinder engines welded together huh.. Well, looks like BMW took a low-tech approach to this one. It is SOHC , and 2 valves per cylinder. Having said that:god, does it pull smoothly. and the sound when your standing outside is well, oh so cool.. The adaptive suspension is standard on the 750il alright. I wonder if the adaptive in sport mode can help the 750il keep up with the 740i-sport on a curvy road. I wonder, if anyone has compared the performance of these cars. The power/weight is probably similar. Maybe the gearing will give the 740i the edge.

ps.
Here is an interesting tidbit..A 2001 540i with the sports package costs the same as a 2001 740i with sport package. That is serious depreciation.
The 740i Sport will smoke the 750 in probably all comparisons, since it has a killer rear-end gear ratio, more aggressive gearing overall, and it obviously handles much better due to the more aggressive suspension and significant weight difference. The area where the 750 works best is in high-speed cruising, because it has lots of torque and operates effortlessly.

The 750 is all about the bling. It's not the rocket-ship or 740i Sport beater that you think it is. You'll feel all that weight when you drive it.
  #18  
Old 07-20-2004, 11:23 AM
kchilaka kchilaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
The 740i Sport will smoke the 750 in probably all comparisons, since it has a killer rear-end gear ratio, more aggressive gearing overall, and it obviously handles much better due to the more aggressive suspension and significant weight difference. The area where the 750 works best is in high-speed cruising, because it has lots of torque and operates effortlessly.

The 750 is all about the bling. It's not the rocket-ship or 740i Sport beater that you think it is. You'll feel all that weight when you drive it.
Handling is more important to me than the long wheel base and the toys. Besides it seems that the 740i has more aftermarket performance potential than the 750i..could be wrong about that though..
You have just convinced me to test drive a 740i sport !
  #19  
Old 07-22-2004, 08:01 PM
kchilaka kchilaka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchilaka
Handling is more important to me than the long wheel base and the toys. Besides it seems that the 740i has more aftermarket performance potential than the 750i..could be wrong about that though..
You have just convinced me to test drive a 740i sport !
Ok.Update. I did go in and drive a 740i sport. Wow. The car feels completely different from the 750il I drove. Much firmer suspension (also a stiffer ride) and it handles beautifuly. I was astonished at the difference. The car also feels smaller. The salesman (an extremely friendly guy) drove the first couple of miles before he let me take over. It feels like a large luxury sport sedan. Exactly like it should. The brakes were much better too..Maybe the brakes on the 750il i drove were worn or something but these were real good. About the premium sound system, as mentioned in the board, there is a clear gap in the bass. The low end bass was there but the mid-bass was missing . I wonder if the rumor about being able to reprogram the dsp is true so the subs are rolled over at 80hz instead of 40hz. In all, I was very impressed. The only thing that gives me a pause before getting a 740i is the 540i sport. Yes, its smaller but i imagine it is faster because its lighter. I wonder how much faster it is, with the 740i having a performance rear-ratio . I also like the looks of the 740i more than the 540i. And they cost pretty much the same. hmm tough decisions.. Anyone know how fast a 740i sport can do the 0-60 and the 1/4 mile. The 540i sport automatic is reported to be around 6 flat....
  #20  
Old 07-22-2004, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchilaka
The only thing that gives me a pause before getting a 740i is the 540i sport.

The E38 and E39 are two different cars, a sporty sedan or sedany sports car.
At some point you will have to pick which ever car meets your needs and wants. I'd say either one will make you happy, but you have to decide which style of vehicle you want to drive.

I picked the E38, my wife the E39.

(I think the 740i Sport does 0-60 in 6.17 or so seconds. )
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  #21  
Old 07-22-2004, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
The engine itself is reliable. The problem arises from the fact that the car has two of many of the major parts (basically like the car has 2 6-cylinder engines), so maintenance and regular repairs end up running you twice as much as a normal car. Also, many of the electrical "goodies" that are standard on the 750 were either expensive and not popular as options on the 740, or not available at all. When these parts break/wear (the adaptive suspension comes to mind), it'll cost you alot to fix.

Since the 750 engine wasn't really updated very much-- was it still based on 2 M20 engines even in 2001?
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Old 07-23-2004, 02:33 AM
andy_thomas andy_thomas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
The engine itself is reliable. The problem arises from the fact that the car has two of many of the major parts (basically like the car has 2 6-cylinder engines), so maintenance and regular repairs end up running you twice as much as a normal car.
Agreed. The engine is, or was, two siamesed M20 blocks, and have straightforward valvegear, bottom end and so on, but twice as much of everything.
Quote:
Also, many of the electrical "goodies" that are standard on the 750 were either expensive and not popular as options on the 740, or not available at all. When these parts break/wear (the adaptive suspension comes to mind), it'll cost you alot to fix.
A recent article in one UK magazine called "Total BMW" covered the E38 750iL in some depth. You can order the back issue (August 2004) here:
http://www.totalbmwmag.com/Pages/backissue.html
  #23  
Old 07-23-2004, 02:38 AM
andy_thomas andy_thomas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kchilaka
Two 6-cylinder engines welded together huh.. Well, looks like BMW took a low-tech approach to this one.
It's very common alongst volume manufacturers. Audi's first V8 was two Golf GTi engines glued together; Merc's V6, V8 and V12s all use the same basic architecture (which means its V6s need balance shafts to quell the vibrations). Even Aston Martin's Ferrari-beating V12 is two Ford Duratec V6s run back-to-back. Talk about synergy .
Quote:
Here is an interesting tidbit..A 2001 540i with the sports package costs the same as a 2001 740i with sport package. That is serious depreciation.
There was a thread about this a while back. I happened to notice in a UK BMW enthusiast's magazine (BMWCar) a year or so ago that the E46 328i, E39 528i and E38 728i were all going for about the same amount of money. Same engine, you get to choose the body that goes around it!
  #24  
Old 07-23-2004, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robg
Since the 750 engine wasn't really updated very much-- was it still based on 2 M20 engines even in 2001?
At some point along the line (1996?), they updated the engine to a 5.4 from a 5.0 liter (just like they updated the 4.0 to a 4.4).

750's are so few and far between that I honestly don't know that much about the engine. It's been years since we sold one (the last one we sold was a one year old '01 that come on trade for one of our first 745Li's).
  #25  
Old 07-28-2004, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SARAFIL
At some point along the line (1996?), they updated the engine to a 5.4 from a 5.0 liter (just like they updated the 4.0 to a 4.4).

750's are so few and far between that I honestly don't know that much about the engine. It's been years since we sold one (the last one we sold was a one year old '01 that come on trade for one of our first 745Li's).
oh Well.. After agonizing between a 740i (I need the space) and the 540i (I wanted the speed) I finally put a deposit down on a Pre-owned Audi S8 which had the speed and the space.. But being a beemer phile as well I do intend to hang around the forums.....
 

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