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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #301  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:23 PM
gomichaelkgo gomichaelkgo is online now
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Moving the steering wheel button from the right side of the column to the left side did NOTHING for its useability. It can't be seen, and the on/off state cannot be felt with the hands.

Several times I've wondered if I pressed it hard enough to activate it. The only way to tell is with a dental mirror, the door open, or making a sharp turn.

Put it on the front of the steering wheel like on the E39. For those who don't order the option, turn it inot an HVAC recirc button or something.

Or put it on the top of the steering column where at least it would be visible.
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  #302  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:28 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gomichaelkgo View Post
Moving the steering wheel button from the right side of the column to the left side did NOTHING for its useability. It can't be seen, and the on/off state cannot be felt with the hands.

Several times I've wondered if I pressed it hard enough to activate it. The only way to tell is with a dental mirror, the door open, or making a sharp turn.

Put it on the front of the steering wheel like on the E39. For those who don't order the option, turn it inot an HVAC recirc button or something.

Or put it on the top of the steering column where at least it would be visible.
Never found that to annoy me.

What about the trunk pop button? Anyone else find that to be ergonomically terrible? Our Saab has it right under the door pull down from the window switches, I never have to give it a second thought to find it.
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  #303  
Old 01-02-2013, 04:33 PM
jlukja jlukja is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Never found that to annoy me.

What about the trunk pop button? Anyone else find that to be ergonomically terrible? Our Saab has it right under the door pull down from the window switches, I never have to give it a second thought to find it.
I agree with this. I find it more by feel than looking for it with my eyes. Glad its the only control button in the area.
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  #304  
Old 01-02-2013, 07:07 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Lets say your company says we are going to give you a raise if you relocate to one of two different states.

You ask around for feedback.

There are people who say:

1) I have been to neither of those states, I cannot say
2 ) I have only been to one of the states, so I cannot say which is better, but here is my account of one of them
3) I have been to both states numerous times, they both have a lot going for them, here is what you may or may not prefer-this is my preference
4) I have only been to one of the states, but I read an article somewhere that the other state is terrible.

Now to me, 1-3 are honest and helpful. 4-can be helpful-but a bit biased. Now what happens if you go around and ask more and more people, but person number 4 walks over each time and repeats themselves over and over.
If you already know the answers but just go around ask again and again, you could be considered a jerk.

It is assumed when someone asks the question, he does not already have the answer before, therefore all 4 above have the same levels of legitimacy as if they were given for the first time, for the guy who asked the question that is.

Ask any good salesperson, he/she will tell you they answer the same questions as if those were asked for the very first time, even though they had answered those questions the 1,000th time.

The fact you have heard the same answers too many times before is irrelevant, they were not trying to answer your questions.
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  #305  
Old 01-02-2013, 08:14 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
If you already know the answers but just go around ask again and again, you could be considered a jerk.

It is assumed when someone asks the question, he does not already have the answer before, therefore all 4 above have the same levels of legitimacy as if they were given for the first time, for the guy who asked the question that is.

Ask any good salesperson, he/she will tell you they answer the same questions as if those were asked for the very first time, even though they had answered those questions the 1,000th time.

The fact you have heard the same answers too many times before is irrelevant, they were not trying to answer your questions.
That's what you took from the example?

It wasn't a yes or no question, not something one person answers and you are on your way. You ask a variety of people for feedback. The guy who follows you around as you do so, repeating himself each time(guy #4)...yep-that's a jerk. Now maybe you miss-understood and that you only asked 4 people, no I gave 4 examples of the answers you may get. This is a big decision, you are polling your entire office, maybe even friends and family. This whole time though, the type mentioned as #4, follows you and repeats his opinion(from 2nd hand info) over and over.

I am absolutely done with dialog with you in this thread. I too often feel like I am talking to myself and it's getting no one anywhere or bettering a debate.

I have tried to hit home my goal grain of information that if someone is to really want to compare an E90 to an F30 to get a real picture of the car for THEMSELVES and drive what best represents the car they currently have.
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Last edited by Jamesonsviggen; 01-02-2013 at 08:25 PM.
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  #306  
Old 01-02-2013, 09:26 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
That's what you took from the example?

It wasn't a yes or no question, not something one person answers and you are on your way. You ask a variety of people for feedback. The guy who follows you around as you do so, repeating himself each time(guy #4)...yep-that's a jerk.
You need to ask yourself the question, why several people here like to follow you around, not the OP. You probably brought it upon yourself. Don't get annoyed so easily, maybe people will stop following you around.
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  #307  
Old 01-02-2013, 11:59 PM
pkim1079 pkim1079 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
OK.

You asked me to quote each time someone posts about the F30 after admitting to not drive one. I will keep updating this as I spend the next HOUR combing lol.

Here you go:

While I like CA posts, this is still an example of starting out an F30 reply:


From an E90 vs F30 thread on F30post that Saintor took part in:



Going back to my earlier replies, I also took offense to people who drove a base 328 non Sport suspension cars and compared it to their N54 and N55 and or their Sport suspension E90s. I won't quote all of those.

The moral of the story is, drive an F30 setup most like your current car. Then you can judge and compare in the most fair and realistic way. If you hate the F30 after that, great, who am I to judge. If that is one thing from me I would like to leave this thread with, it's that.
Hows it going jameson. Some ppl on here will talk about "feel" or have gripes with its "softness" or lack of stopping power or "body roll" when they drive their cars strictly in the city.

Ive heard oh f30s have so much more body roll than my e90. I have pictures from a trackday that show plenty of e90s with just as much or even more body roll lol. the same pictures also show an e36 m3 with major body roll (and those are the true track beasts right?) There is a difference between a car that has body roll yet feels planted on the outside vs a car with bodyroll that feels like its gonna tip over or just wont turn. I dont understand this.

What does someone mean when saying the steering is "soft"? its not like you cant feel the car lose grip and correct it. Im not an f1 driver. I dont even want stiff steering when im driving home or parking. I had an mr2 with no power steering before. Feedback was great but a steering wheel that twitches on every single crack in the pavement is a little too much. Press the driver mode button and there you go its stiff again. Get wider tires and itll stiffen up some more.

Ppl cant honestly speak to a car's performance levels driving to work or the grocery store can they? (even if you take "hard" left/right turns lol.) I know i couldnt. I only take in the feedback from experienced drivers (at the track) as well as feedback from weekend track whores. I wish more f30s came out so that we could get honest input on how much more perf you are actually getting with msport or sport line or vs the e90. Im a bit disappointed with the lack of ppl with f30s that track. On the other forum there isnt even an autox track thread!! Although Ive seen a guy bring out an f30 loaner to autocross ha. These cars do well at the track out of the box (get rid of funflats) and any negative "feel" comments are subjective.

The e90 and f30 are both great cars. Ive had a high hp evo with upgraded suspension which handled decently but that **** still understeered. Turn **** let off gas! turn **** let off gas!! In my BASE 328i i already felt that it turned in a lot better than my evo. I may be slower around the track but it has better balance and a smoothness to it that the evo didnt have. this f30 would rip **** up if it had upgraded suspension and 400+/400+ to the wheels like my evo did.

Now go get that prototype done already dammit!!!

Please note: This is not meant to offend anyone and are just my personal thoughts. You can talk **** but I probably wont even be in this thread again. If you do actually bother to respond negatively, awesome ! You win!! Congrats! You are better than me!! =)
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  #308  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:26 AM
pkim1079 pkim1079 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
It's statements like that which are inaccurate. EPS in the F30 being different in feel, or a REDUCTION in road feel/steering feel does not mean NO feel. (unless by the word LOSS-you meant reduction) The steering/handling balance is still top of the class, it seems only the ATS has shaken that up by admittedly taking a play from the BMW playbook. But also from the PAST BMW playbook was a lack of legroom in the back and other things the F30 got right.

Steering feel/handling/feedback and the straight 6 may have been 3 series hallmarks. These are things(aside from the straight 6's intake and exhaust note) that are not GONE with the F30, only changed-different-slightly lessened. But as even you stated, it's a package. To me it's a recipe...

On one end, the E90 might have had too much pepper or salt for the taste of some, and maybe the portion size was a bit small.

The F30 on the other hand is NOT bland food at a buffet either, large portions and no flavor.

The F30 recipe has great ingredients, some better than used in the E90, but the seasoning like salt and pepper is toned down. A lot more people will eat it without commenting, but some miss the "spice" of the original recipe.
I dont understand. Is someone saying that the e90 was the greatest 3 series of all time? Is that the concensus amongst e90 owners?? Lol

Sorry jameson it didnt quote who you quoted.

Im pretty sure that when the e90 first came out, ppl were saying loss of feel loss of this loss of that. Too big. Too mainstream. So the cycle begins again lol.
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  #309  
Old 01-03-2013, 01:25 AM
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So you say f30 is large take home / take away meal

E90 is a sushi ....
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  #310  
Old 01-03-2013, 08:45 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
That's what you took from the example?

It wasn't a yes or no question, not something one person answers and you are on your way. You ask a variety of people for feedback. The guy who follows you around as you do so, repeating himself each time(guy #4)...yep-that's a jerk. Now maybe you miss-understood and that you only asked 4 people, no I gave 4 examples of the answers you may get. This is a big decision, you are polling your entire office, maybe even friends and family. This whole time though, the type mentioned as #4, follows you and repeats his opinion(from 2nd hand info) over and over.

I am absolutely done with dialog with you in this thread. I too often feel like I am talking to myself and it's getting no one anywhere or bettering a debate.

I have tried to hit home my goal grain of information that if someone is to really want to compare an E90 to an F30 to get a real picture of the car for THEMSELVES and drive what best represents the car they currently have.
I am not surprised the N20 can do well on the track or when pushed to the limit, it has better weight distribution, stiffer chassis, more power than E90.

Unfortunately, the F30 is designed to attract people who are not interested in taking it off the road, or modifying it for better handling. As such the handling most people can talk about at most is when it is pushed to 7 or 8/10 of the limit, on some public twisties when no one is watching. I suspect even that is a rare sight.
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  #311  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:16 AM
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Saintor Saintor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
Is someone saying that the e90 was the greatest 3 series of all time?


So far it still is, IMO.

Although the E30/36 will do better in autocross, the E9X is certainly the best driving tool, the best athlete overall. Base version can be deceiving but with the right stuff, they are a blast to drive. Not for nothing that many car mags said that it would have won against a F30.

If the E9X is the best driving tool, the best athlete overall, I nominate the E46 for being the "most BMW". Where the E9X can be cold, the E46 was more engaging and more 'emotional'. It said BMW louder.

So where is the F30 in all of this? It is supposed to be an improved E9X. Mixed bag of feelings so far. As mentioned many times earlier in the thread, many aspects are a downgrade, such as the base engine, the steering feel and the too soft damping. Despite the pics, I thought that the cockpit would feel definitely better than the E9X - can't even say this. I hope that BMW will give it within 1-2 years a Civic_2012-treatment, more 'rigueur', like they did revise the highly criticized steering of the 1999-2000 E46. Hopefully the 4XX will fix a few issues.

I don't see any other car of this class that I want more than a new 335i/435i, as a replacement for my E90 (although a new A6 3.0T is also a possibility). But it is sad that we have to settle for less in so many regards and I just can't lie.
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Last edited by Saintor; 01-03-2013 at 10:27 AM.
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  #312  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:39 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post


So far it still is, IMO.

Although the E30/36 will do better in autocross, the E9X is certainly the best driving tool, the best athlete overall. Base version can be deceiving but with the right stuff, they are a blast to drive. Not for nothing that many car mags said that it would have won against a F30.

If the E9X is the best driving tool, the best athlete overall, I nominate the E46 for being the "most BMW". Where the E9X can be cold, the E46 was more engaging and more 'emotional'. It said BMW louder.

So where is the F30 in all of this? It is supposed to be an improved E9X. Mixed bag of feelings so far. As mentioned many times earlier in the thread, many aspects are a downgrade, such as the base engine, the steering feel and the too soft damping. Despite the pics, I thought that the cockpit would feel definitely better than the E9X - can't even say this. I hope that BMW will give it within 1-2 years a Civic_2012-treatment, more 'rigueur', like they did revise the highly criticized steering of the 1999-2000 E46. Hopefully the 4XX will fix a few issues.

I don't see any other car of this class that I want more than a new 335i/435i, as a replacement for my E90 (although a new A6 3.0T is also a possibility). But it is sad that we have to settle for less in so many regards and I just can't lie.
I'm on my second E90 but the car has flaws. The interior is not sporty in any way. It's well designed and built but more like a Buick than a BMW. Even in my 2011 the suspension can be harsh due to the stiff damping and RFT's. Not objectionably so but at times it's annoying. There are a few ergonomic faults like the placement of the LED for the rain sensor wipers and the location of the window switches. I also wish it sipped less fuel in the city.
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  #313  
Old 01-03-2013, 11:09 AM
spicytofu spicytofu is offline
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Currently in a 2013 F30 xdrive loaner. I dont track but I can immediately feel the steering is too soft and does not have as much feedback. I can live with it, but I feel like im driving a van. Interior is nicer, better seats, better console position, overall, I am more comfortable than in a e90. I still have the complaint of the idrive screen being too far into the dash. I rather have it integrated in the middle console like other makers. thank god that hump is gone, but not so much better having a slab on the table.

At the end of the day, would I prefer the F30: yes
Is the F30 better than the e90: I would say they are equal if you add/minus all the points

Now the wait for the F32...
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  #314  
Old 01-03-2013, 03:20 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Despite the pics, I thought that the cockpit would feel definitely better than the E9X - can't even say this. I hope that BMW will give it within 1-2 years a Civic_2012-treatment, more 'rigueur', like they did revise the highly criticized steering of the 1999-2000 E46. Hopefully the 4XX will fix a few issues.
Since F30 is selling very well, I won't hold my breath they will address some of the complaints from the BMW old-timers, particularly the styling. They do now make M Performance parts more available to satisfy the "purists."

For those who must have hydraulic steering, you can alway try a few xdrive models such as 535xi or X1.

Last edited by dtc100; 01-03-2013 at 03:24 PM.
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  #315  
Old 01-03-2013, 05:02 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintor View Post


So far it still is, IMO.

Although the E30/36 will do better in autocross, the E9X is certainly the best driving tool, the best athlete overall. Base version can be deceiving but with the right stuff, they are a blast to drive. Not for nothing that many car mags said that it would have won against a F30.
Ha ha ha ha ha. You've got to be kidding.

Please go back to the E9X forum where this tripe has an audience. The E90 is the mistake between the E46 and the F30. That's it's BMW destiny. Enjoy yours.

BJ
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  #316  
Old 01-03-2013, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Ha ha ha ha ha. You've got to be kidding.

Please go back to the E9X forum where this tripe has an audience. The E90 is the mistake between the E46 and the F30. That's it's BMW destiny. Enjoy yours.

BJ
Now we see once more that you don't know what you are talking about. You just like the look of the E46/F30 more. There is more to cars than look.
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  #317  
Old 01-03-2013, 06:12 PM
mynycbimmer mynycbimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Ha ha ha ha ha. You've got to be kidding.

Please go back to the E9X forum where this tripe has an audience. The E90 is the mistake between the E46 and the F30. That's it's BMW destiny. Enjoy yours.

BJ
Outside of F30 forums, I don't really see the F30 having too many fans TBH. I spent a fair bit of time on Audi and MB forums cross shopping before getting my BMW and a lot of the opinions expressed mirror what E90 owners are saying here.
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  #318  
Old 01-03-2013, 06:20 PM
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SilverX3 SilverX3 is offline
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so... Is

1. Chris bangle > Karim Habib (BMW chief designer)

2. Chris bangle < Karim Habib

3. Chris Bangle = Karim Habib

4. They are both losers

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/05/24/b...-design-chief/

Your votes ????
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  #319  
Old 01-03-2013, 06:23 PM
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EddieB EddieB is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Now we see once more that you don't know what you are talking about. You just like the look of the E46/F30 more. There is more to cars than look.
Oh for crap sake. The E90 was the "mistake" between the two series. I owned an E46 M3 for 6 years, had an E90 loaner for a month and now own an F30.

After some nice spirited driving in my favorite canyon, I can say the F30 handles like a true 3er. The only nit I have is the run flats compared to the Pilots on the M3. But, the run flats are pretty damn good in their own right.
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  #320  
Old 01-03-2013, 07:59 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is online now
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Now we see once more that you don't know what you are talking about. You just like the look of the E46/F30 more. There is more to cars than look.
I owned both an E90 and an F30. You? Have you even taken a test drive?

I'm not going to bother with the laundry list of improvements that the F30 has over the E90 because it's like talking to a wall. Take the E90, make it better, you have an F30. Simple stuff.

Your car is 7 years old. Step up or step out.

BJ
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  #321  
Old 01-03-2013, 08:03 PM
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Outside of F30 forums, I don't really see the F30 having too many fans TBH. I spent a fair bit of time on Audi and MB forums cross shopping before getting my BMW and a lot of the opinions expressed mirror what E90 owners are saying here.
The problem with luxury cars and status symbols is that they have their diehard fans who are immovable. You can sing the praises all day about Omega wristwatches, I'm not switching from Rolex. Audi could make a drop-dead 3 Series killer at half the price; I wouldn't be caught dead in it.

Audi owners are ex-Volkswagen owners. They despise arrogant BMW owners. Mercedes Benz owners eschew sporty driving tendencies. They despise arrogant BMW owners.

Very few people cross-shop off of a 3 Series. Once you drive one, you don't want to go elsewhere. Many people cross-shop a 3 Series off of a Mercedes or an Audi and they can come and go as they please. There are so many more BMW owners than MB or Audi the company simply doesn't need their business.

As stated by numerous reviewers and ex-E90 owners, all BMW had to do with the F30 was "not screw it up". They didn't. They made it significantly better.

BJ
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  #322  
Old 01-03-2013, 08:05 PM
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EddieB EddieB is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The problem with luxury cars and status symbols is that they have their diehard fans who are immovable. You can sing the praises all day about Omega wristwatches, I'm not switching from Rolex. Audi could make a drop-dead 3 Series killer at half the price; I wouldn't be caught dead in it.

Audi owners are ex-Volkswagen owners. They despise arrogant BMW owners. Mercedes Benz owners eschew sporty driving tendencies. They despise arrogant BMW owners.

Very few people cross-shop off of a 3 Series. Once you drive one, you don't want to go elsewhere. Many people cross-shop a 3 Series off of a Mercedes or an Audi and they can come and go as they please. There are so many more BMW owners than MB or Audi the company simply doesn't need their business.

As stated by numerous reviewers and ex-E90 owners, all BMW had to do with the F30 was "not screw it up". They didn't. They made it significantly better.

BJ
And they did. But I do like Omega.
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  #323  
Old 01-03-2013, 08:23 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The problem with luxury cars and status symbols is that they have their diehard fans who are immovable. You can sing the praises all day about Omega wristwatches, I'm not switching from Rolex. Audi could make a drop-dead 3 Series killer at half the price; I wouldn't be caught dead in it.

Audi owners are ex-Volkswagen owners. They despise arrogant BMW owners. Mercedes Benz owners eschew sporty driving tendencies. They despise arrogant BMW owners.

Very few people cross-shop off of a 3 Series. Once you drive one, you don't want to go elsewhere. Many people cross-shop a 3 Series off of a Mercedes or an Audi and they can come and go as they please. There are so many more BMW owners than MB or Audi the company simply doesn't need their business.

As stated by numerous reviewers and ex-E90 owners, all BMW had to do with the F30 was "not screw it up". They didn't. They made it significantly better.

BJ
When it comes to buying the same car brand multiple times, you'd think that the high-end luxury makers have the market cornered. Once you've driven a Mercedes, it seems, you only shop for cars from Mercedes-Benz. Likewise with BMW and Audi, whose customers seem to be fanatically loyal. Still, if you picked any of these brands, you'd be incorrect. According to the latest study on brand loyalty, conducted by JD Power and Associates, the brands with the highest number of repeat buyers are:
- Ford (62% customer retention)
- Honda (62% customer retention)
- Hyundai (60% customer retention)
- Lexus (60% customer retention)
- Toyota (60% customer retention)

BMW, Audi and Mercedes are very close to each other in sales and Lexus, which was the best selling luxury brand for many years, is fighting to regain losses in incurred after the tsunami disaster in Japan. Audi trimmed BMW's lead in 2012 luxury-car sales worldwide to just 2,110 vehicles by the end of August, compared with a 40,000-vehicle deficit at the same time last year. Audi is being fueled by growth in China and in the U.S. in particular, reports Bloomberg.
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Last edited by captainaudio; 01-03-2013 at 08:39 PM.
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  #324  
Old 01-03-2013, 08:45 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I leased both an E90 and an F30. You? Have you even taken a test drive?

I'm not going to bother with the laundry list of improvements that the F30 has over the E90 because it's like talking to a wall. Take the E90, make it better, you have an F30. Simple stuff.

Your car is 7 years old. Step up or step out.

BJ
Fixed!
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  #325  
Old 01-03-2013, 08:52 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The problem with luxury cars and status symbols is that they have their diehard fans who are immovable. You can sing the praises all day about Omega wristwatches, I'm not switching from Rolex. Audi could make a drop-dead 3 Series killer at half the price; I wouldn't be caught dead in it.

Audi owners are ex-Volkswagen owners. They despise arrogant BMW owners. Mercedes Benz owners eschew sporty driving tendencies. They despise arrogant BMW owners.

Very few people cross-shop off of a 3 Series. Once you drive one, you don't want to go elsewhere. Many people cross-shop a 3 Series off of a Mercedes or an Audi and they can come and go as they please. There are so many more BMW owners than MB or Audi the company simply doesn't need their business.

As stated by numerous reviewers and ex-E90 owners, all BMW had to do with the F30 was "not screw it up". They didn't. They made it significantly better.

BJ
The F30 328i includes some amenities that were options on the E90, and while that is better, I have not seen any reviews where the F30 is deemed significantly better (or even better) than the E90 328i. I think the "not screw it up" part is partially true, however.

You really should start including a disclaimer that says something like "purely my opinion", and possibly "BMW F30 super duper fanboy" when you post.
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Last edited by beden1; 01-03-2013 at 09:02 PM.
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