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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #151  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:08 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
Well, if you would have really thought about it, this is all to the N52's credit, not the contrary.

255 has more rolling resistance and 5-60mph test doesn't break traction in these cars. Funny.

5-60mph is the best for real world, 0-to-something are just for kids who love to brag about nothing. Again when did you pre-rev your RPM to 3500-4000rpm in order to get the best acceleration? lol.

The problem with top gear acceleration 30-50 and 50-70 tests is about "top gear" part. All automatic cars perform great while the manual ones all look like pigs. Why? Because oh wonders, automatics *downshift*! (although they could do them in M-mode).

Top gear 30-50 50-70
F30 328i manual 9.5 7.7
F30 328i automatic 3.5 3.9

So this is a non-issue, because if you are too lazy to downshift and drive a manual like it should, then you need the automatic that will make up for your poor driver skills.



What does it do that the competition with old technology can't do?
I answered you already, I typically never get more aggressive than a 2500 rpm launch on the street. Tracks are prepped, that is where a higher RPM launch is utilized.

I agree, the 5-60 is in the N52's favor as it does not have to worry as much about traction and I bet it is further aided by 255's in your test while all F30 tests seem to have 225's. So the car more in need of traction is crippled by having less grip. And you so desperately want to hold on to this two tenths advantage. You said, 255's do not break traction in these cars, N52's...EXACTLY. N20's do. I have the summer S001's, 255's, and not only do I get plenty of wheelspin in 1st, I also get a solid spin on the 1-2 shift and can chirp the 2-3 shift. That's called torque.

I am glad you are actually replying finally in regards to the 30-50 and 50-70 numbers. But again, since you want to try and discount them.

No one brought up automatics which skew top gear acceleration dramatically.

I used the numbers from YOUR examples which are both 6spd manuals. In those tests the N20 has a second or more advantage, in fact the N20 meets or beats the Infiniti G37 from your N52 test which was the fastest car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
The bottom line which you refuse to acknowledge is that in everyday driving the N20 gets significantly better fuel economy and is faster. You can throw out all the stats you want but in the real world the N20 is a much more efficient engine.

I have been saying this with specific counters for pages now. I doubt it's going to get though to him.
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  #152  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:12 AM
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Seems a mute argument as the old engine is no longer available in the new car. A page in the chapter has turned. The new engine gets great ratings - progress.
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  #153  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:00 AM
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I'm not in to all the stats, but after almost a year and 13k miles with my 328i I can honestly say the engine is the best part of the car, and my last car had one of the smoothest non-DI sixes around. Also, had E90 328 loaners on 2-3 occasions and they feel much, much slower than the N20.
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  #154  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:42 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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The N52 was a gem, no substitute in this segment for a long time, BMW could have easily kept it, made it more powerful and more efficient with the 8spd. The high power version made 270 hp.

Unfortunately it did not happen. So if you are an N/A person, and refuse to go below 6, there are other brands available, and I am not talking about C350, ATS 3.6 or G37, but more higher end brands.

Sometimes you have to pay to play.
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  #155  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:34 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
The N52 was a gem, no substitute in this segment for a long time, BMW could have easily kept it, made it more powerful and more efficient with the 8spd. The high power version made 270 hp.

Unfortunately it did not happen. So if you are an N/A person, and refuse to go below 6, there are other brands available, and I am not talking about C350, ATS 3.6 or G37, but more higher end brands.

Sometimes you have to pay to play.
If BMW bucked the trend, I would have been all for an all aluminum 2.5L in-line six with a small twin scroll and direct injection, 265hp/270lbs tq, then have the N55 at 330/330.

Not only would I have been all for it, I would have paid $500-800 more than what I did for the N20.
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  #156  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:02 PM
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Sweet!

Nice to see that you finally got the car of your dreams.

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  #157  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:09 PM
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I'm not in to all the stats, but after almost a year and 13k miles with my 328i I can honestly say the engine is the best part of the car, and my last car had one of the smoothest non-DI sixes around. Also, had E90 328 loaners on 2-3 occasions and they feel much, much slower than the N20.
+1

The new engine is a rocket. It's unfathomable to some who believe in the naturally aspirated myth; ironically, it's BMW who made up the myth and it's BMW that smashed it. Some are just late to the party.

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  #158  
Old 12-29-2012, 12:47 AM
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BMW also made up the Rwd myth and will smash it after 2015
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  #159  
Old 12-29-2012, 02:18 AM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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+1

The new engine is a rocket. It's unfathomable to some who believe in the naturally aspirated myth; ironically, it's BMW who made up the myth and it's BMW that smashed it. Some are just late to the party.
BMW smashed it for its fans only. It's been smashed a long time ago for the rest of the world.
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  #160  
Old 12-29-2012, 02:22 AM
bmw_or_audi bmw_or_audi is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
If BMW bucked the trend, I would have been all for an all aluminum 2.5L in-line six with a small twin scroll and direct injection, 265hp/270lbs tq, then have the N55 at 330/330.

Not only would I have been all for it, I would have paid $500-800 more than what I did for the N20.
A 2.5L I-6 could be easily made to pump 300/300 all the while being silky smooth. The Audi 2.5L I-5 turbo cranks out 360/343. But you probably would have to pay more than $500-800 over the N20.
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  #161  
Old 12-29-2012, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
If BMW bucked the trend, I would have been all for an all aluminum 2.5L in-line six with a small twin scroll and direct injection, 265hp/270lbs tq, then have the N55 at 330/330.

Not only would I have been all for it, I would have paid $500-800 more than what I did for the N20.
We are making some progress here.

I have a 2.5L and there is no point over a 3.0L. In Europe, BMW finally dismissed their 2.5L in the 2008+(?) Euro 325i E90 and it was updated with a 3.0L.

Their direct injected N53 NA 3.0L had a already 272HP and the fuel economy of an Audi 2.0T. BMW would have needed a different DI system compatible with North American gas, like their competition does. I would avoid force induction - not needed anyway. A Mercedes exec. declared that their 1.8T was more expensive to build than their NA V6 - I believe him.

What was lost in the process of going with the N20 is engine temper. I don't like the stock N52 so much actually, I preferred the M54 that was the real inspiration with its deep growl, which clearly expressed B-M-W, like a N54/55 335i does.

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  #162  
Old 12-29-2012, 06:59 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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How is that making progress?

I basically made a hypothetical wish.

I am the one in fantasyland and you are in the past and want something BMW simply isnt doing.

Maybe you too are here with us in fantasyland and just don't. Know it.
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  #163  
Old 12-29-2012, 09:42 AM
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What was lost in the process of going with the N20 is engine temper. I don't like the stock N52 so much actually, I preferred the M54 that was the real inspiration with its deep growl, which clearly expressed B-M-W, like a N54/55 335i does.

Are you talking about engine sound or exhaust sound?
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  #164  
Old 12-29-2012, 10:14 AM
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Are you talking about engine sound or exhaust sound?
Both. The M54 was almost symphonic--induction, valvetrain and exhaust all making distinct and discernible contributions to the overall tone. Driving one hard was a treat for the ears in a way the N52, N54 and even N55 could never quite match.
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  #165  
Old 12-29-2012, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
If BMW bucked the trend, I would have been all for an all aluminum 2.5L in-line six with a small twin scroll and direct injection, 265hp/270lbs tq, then have the N55 at 330/330.

Not only would I have been all for it, I would have paid $500-800 more than what I did for the N20.
BMW is already the highest cost between the Cadillac ATS, Audi A4 or MB C250. They increased the size of the 3 and the lighter 4 seems a good way to keep the car at the 3400 lbs weight and 50/50 balance and prevent the higher cost. But if they offered a performance option for the lighter all aluminum 6 providing the feel of the 328 with the power closer to the 335, kind of like the older small block compacts in the 60s (Boss Mustang 302, Chevy Camaro DZ 302), they were high reving small engines with close ratio manual trans and high rear gears. The much lighter engine weight and less clutch pressure made them a joy to drive compared to the heavyer big block versions of the same car. By the way "Jamesonsviggen", did you have a Saab Viggen? That was my introduction to a 4-cylinder performance car.
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  #166  
Old 12-29-2012, 12:40 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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BMW is already the highest cost between the Cadillac ATS, Audi A4 or MB C250. They increased the size of the 3 and the lighter 4 seems a good way to keep the car at the 3400 lbs weight and 50/50 balance and prevent the higher cost. But if they offered a performance option for the lighter all aluminum 6 providing the feel of the 328 with the power closer to the 335, kind of like the older small block compacts in the 60s (Boss Mustang 302, Chevy Camaro DZ 302), they were high reving small engines with close ratio manual trans and high rear gears. The much lighter engine weight and less clutch pressure made them a joy to drive compared to the heavyer big block versions of the same car. By the way "Jamesonsviggen", did you have a Saab Viggen? That was my introduction to a 4-cylinder performance car.
Yes, I had a lightning blue'99 that I modified quite a but and wound up very well known in the Saab community. I sold it to snag my Roadster. Once I had a new daily, I could enjoy a less practical car.
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  #167  
Old 12-29-2012, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
Yes, I had a lightning blue'99 that I modified quite a but and wound up very well known in the Saab community. I sold it to snag my Roadster. Once I had a new daily, I could enjoy a less practical car.
The Lightening Blue was my Favorite color for the Saab Viggen. Had a friend a few years back with a Monte Carlo Yellow Viggen Roadster. He let me drive it a few times, I had never considered a FWD car as fun... until I drove that Viggen! I think the 2.2 liter motor was rated at 240 HP (same as the new BMW N20). I owned a 1999 Saab and the car was the best 2 wheel drive vehicle I ever had in the snow. First car I ever owned with a turbo and it was my first European car. Good thing it was easy to work on as it seemed to be in constant need of it. I think you made a good choice in the E36/7 M roadster as a swap, drove one and it is certainly a better balanced car, more fun than a Saab with less headaches and stronger wheel rims too!
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  #168  
Old 12-29-2012, 06:49 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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The Lightening Blue was my Favorite color for the Saab Viggen. Had a friend a few years back with a Monte Carlo Yellow Viggen Roadster. He let me drive it a few times, I had never considered a FWD car as fun... until I drove that Viggen! I think the 2.2 liter motor was rated at 240 HP (same as the new BMW N20). I owned a 1999 Saab and the car was the best 2 wheel drive vehicle I ever had in the snow. First car I ever owned with a turbo and it was my first European car. Good thing it was easy to work on as it seemed to be in constant need of it. I think you made a good choice in the E36/7 M roadster as a swap, drove one and it is certainly a better balanced car, more fun than a Saab with less headaches and stronger wheel rims too!
The Viggen was 225hp crank, I put down 220 stock.

I tuned it, did the suspension and rebuilt the trans with an LSD. It made 320lbs of tq to the wheels and could do a burn out with both wheels from a second gear roll. I had a spread in European Car magazine with it.

But it was not a sports car. A sedan allowed me to buy a sports car. The e36/7 with the blower really hits all the key points for me.

But I always have a Saab in the stable owning one or more for 15 years. I have a tuned awd'11 9-3 for my wife and a 6mt wagon for my father.
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  #169  
Old 12-30-2012, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
How is that making progress?

I basically made a hypothetical wish.

I am the one in fantasyland and you are in the past and want something BMW simply isnt doing.

Maybe you too are here with us in fantasyland and just don't. Know it.

No fantasyland is stating that 30mpg combined is typical for a N20, as you did. Which can be also confused with BS.

My version was also an "hypothetical wish", that competitors are doing BTW, so it is not fantasyland.
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  #170  
Old 12-30-2012, 07:16 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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No fantasyland is stating that 30mpg combined is typical for a N20, as you did. Which can be also confused with BS.

My version was also an "hypothetical wish", that competitors are doing BTW, so it is not fantasyland.
We have real world experience at 30+, threads dedicated to it.

It is more realistic an experience than YOUR sticking by magazine testing which nets low numbers from people paid to thrash on cars they do not own.

In the middle ground was your Fuelly.com example which is long term consumer posted and showed 20+ % higher than the magazines you were sticking with. It's not exactly perfect as I saw a '13 328 coupe with an L4. Does that mean it was really a sedan, or an E92 owner with a six who picked the wrong thing. It also was a much lower reported average which brought down the overall average for '12-13 cars.

Once again you want your source to be valid/irrefutable and someone else's source to be discounted. It's very annoying.
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  #171  
Old 12-30-2012, 07:40 AM
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We have real world experience at 30+, threads dedicated to it.
Yeah sure, remove those pink glasses or learn how to count. Unless you spent the vast majority of time on highway, this isn't happening.
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  #172  
Old 12-30-2012, 08:05 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Yeah sure, remove those pink glasses or learn how to count. Unless you spent the vast majority of time on highway, this isn't happening.
I took pictures, showing my average MPH, what mode I was in, and that it was 60-70% highway.

I own the car, I drive the car, I state factual events...

Am I stating LONG term 30+ tanks. Nope. I have had plenty of 28mpg tanks. The ownership average over my 5k, is likely between 28-29.5mpg. 60-70% of all my driving is highway at 80mph in Sport.

But my experience has a hell of a lot more validity than yours in which you have none and just state everyone else's first hand experience on the forums is wrong.
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  #173  
Old 12-30-2012, 10:49 AM
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Excellent replies.

Overall, do you feel like the 3-series lost it's 'Feel'?
The 3 series has gotten a bit 'softer'. The Electric steering isn't the best for providing feedback, either. Overall though, the car is the closest thing in it's class (for now) that's sporty and refined, with German engineering. I feel the interior has gotten a bit cheaper but that's just me. Others have noted that they feel it's gotten better.
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  #174  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:02 AM
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The M-Sport model, I think looks the best. Even if it does sorta water down the M Badge.
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  #175  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:15 AM
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Yeah sure, remove those pink glasses or learn how to count. Unless you spent the vast majority of time on highway, this isn't happening.
No one cares about the minutiae that your spewing. Not a single F30 will/won't be sold because of fractional 0-60 times or gas mileage. What matters has nothing to do with any of that. BMW has built a great new car that succeeds because of the sum of all of its parts, all of its features. It isn't about a single one 'thing'. It's a fantastic package- performance, style, luxury. You can't find fault with any of that, so move on.

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