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BMW Coding and Programming
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  #1  
Old 12-18-2012, 05:38 PM
Hopeajordan Hopeajordan is offline
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BMW assist override

My 2005 BMW 530i has been taken from me and hidden. I was going to sell it to an individual but he decided not to pay and has hidden the car. The police says it's not considered stolen because I gave him permission to drive it. In order to go to civil court it's more than I have to pay--court cost, bond for the car, and attorney fees. I'm still paying a $400 monthly car note and my car has been hidden since June. Surely there is some way to track my car -- I didn't sign up for BMW assist. Can't something be done? I'm sick with grief.
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2012, 05:53 PM
cn555ic cn555ic is offline
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Sorry to hear of your issue, but do you realize that the car may be either parted out or sent abroad to another country...**** like that happens in the United States all the time...
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2012, 06:32 PM
Hopeajordan Hopeajordan is offline
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I'm hoping to find the car before that. I was able to find it at his house last Tuesday-- I removed my tag but he had it blocked in and I couldn't move it. Because I was on his property and he told me to leave I had too or the police said I would then be trespassing if I didn't and they could not make him move the vehicle blocking mine. So as of one week ago it was still in tact and in the city. This is so crazy and very devastating!
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  #4  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:02 PM
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shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeajordan View Post
My 2005 BMW 530i has been taken from me and hidden. I was going to sell it to an individual but he decided not to pay and has hidden the car. The police says it's not considered stolen because I gave him permission to drive it. In order to go to civil court it's more than I have to pay--court cost, bond for the car, and attorney fees. I'm still paying a $400 monthly car note and my car has been hidden since June. Surely there is some way to track my car -- I didn't sign up for BMW assist. Can't something be done? I'm sick with grief.
WTF? If you loan someone your car, and they refuse to return it, it is freakin stolen!!! Is this guy the Desk Sergeant or something? I would talk to someone higher up in the Police Department. This is total BS.
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2012, 10:57 PM
ilhan1103 ilhan1103 is offline
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How the hell can the police consider it 'not stolen'????

If someone had my car, for which i still pay that amount, and tells me to leave their property I'd shove some large quantities of said property up their rectal area.
Trespassing or no trespassing I'm not leaving w/o my car.
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  #6  
Old 12-19-2012, 03:10 AM
Hopeajordan Hopeajordan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn555ic View Post
Sorry to hear of your issue, but do you realize that the car may be either parted out or sent abroad to another country...**** like that happens in the United States all the time...
I know. This is such a mess and I'm the only one being hurt in the process. I just want to find my car.
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  #7  
Old 12-19-2012, 08:29 AM
marsb007 marsb007 is offline
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I'm not understanding this... who is the registered owner of the vehicle? If you have the title you can declare it stolen...
Worst case scenario, pay a towing/repo guy and he'll bring your car to you pretty quickly!

I'm sorry, but this sounds fishy to me!
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2012, 12:46 PM
JEG23 JEG23 is offline
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Now imagine for a second (by the way I am not saying that this is what Hopeajordan is doing here), that you want to find somebody because they owe you money, slept with your wife, left your daughter pregnant or you have been paid well to execute a "hit". Wouldn’t you be trying a similar tactic in order to find this person? I hope that tracking my car is more secure than helping a stranger via coding or otherwise track my car.

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  #9  
Old 12-19-2012, 08:24 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeajordan View Post
I'm hoping to find the car before that. I was able to find it at his house last Tuesday-- I removed my tag but he had it blocked in and I couldn't move it. Because I was on his property and he told me to leave I had too or the police said I would then be trespassing if I didn't and they could not make him move the vehicle blocking mine. So as of one week ago it was still in tact and in the city. This is so crazy and very devastating!
You're kidding right?
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2012, 09:51 PM
bmguy bmguy is offline
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As odd as it sounds, the law is clear in most parts on this issue. Once you voluntarily part with your property, and the person who buys your car simply bounces a check, transfer title, or even just sign a bill of sale it becomes a civil matter and no longer criminal. Which is why the police are looking at this the way they are.

A friend of mine who is an insurance adjuster told me a story a few years ago that broke his heart. He was assigned a case where a guy spend 10 years restoring a car. He came into some hard times and had to sell his car. A guy came by and test drove the car. The buyer liked the car, and asked if he could return the next day with a bank draft for the agreed on 60k. The seller deposited the bankdraft and two weeks later gets a call from his bank saying the draft bounced as it was forged and not valid.

Once the police got involved they said because he had voluntarily parted with the car it was not a Criminal matter. He tried to file the insurance claim which is where my friend got involved and they had to refuse the claim. He spent two weeks trying to figure out what policy language could be used to pay it, but the insurance policy was very clear. There was even specific language in it for exactly this circumstance so they had to deny the claim.

As much as it sucks, I think this is the law in most of North America

If title has not been actually Transfered to the new owner, which is implied with the lack of the new owners plates, getting a repo man may be the best way to get the car, but legal issues may still exist. I would think a lawyer should be consulted before any action is taken or there could be a case for auto theft if he takes it back the wrong way.

As a side note, if he wants to track it with BMW assist, I think you can activate the service remotely. But his problem is they will not track the car without a police report, which he can not get under the circumstances. He could try the iPad app for location services, however it seems to restrict location If your car is more than few miles/km away from where ever it is you are when ask for the cars location from your iPad or iPhone

Bottom line this is not easy to do as he requested. And based on what Information is supplied it is clearly a civil matter.

With that said. Why would one just not put a stop payment on the car, and let BMW repo the car and clean up the mess with title? They technically have a lean on the car on own it? Doesn't do much for your credit rating I'm sure, but could get this done quickly if no other options are found.

Last edited by bmguy; 12-19-2012 at 09:58 PM. Reason: As autocorrect was working flawless as always
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  #11  
Old 12-20-2012, 10:01 AM
TRIPLE_O TRIPLE_O is offline
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This is so ridiculous. There has to be something you're not telling us. Do you have the title? Did you sign it over to the guy already? Why are you in a situation where he was able to take your car like this?

Do you have any keys or he has them too?
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2012, 11:12 AM
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SD Z4MR SD Z4MR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmguy View Post
As a side note, if he wants to track it with BMW assist, I think you can activate the service remotely.
The OP's car is a 2005 BMW 530i. If the car presumably came with BMW Assist as part of the original purchase and was free for the first 4 years but the owner let it expire and didn't renew, BMW Assist cannot be activated remotely.

I bought my 2006 Z4 M Roadster this past July and I decided to turn BMW Assist back on as the original owner had let the subscription lapse after the initial 4 years. I called BMW Assist on a land line, gave then the VIN, and told them I wanted to resubscribe. They told me that I could only re-enroll by taking the car in person to a BMW dealer. After the dealer checked my VIN, I had to fill out a BMW Assist subscription form and pay the $199. When the form printed out a separate sheet printed out first that had the following on it (italics and bold mine):
Attention BMW Center Personnel. BMW Assist service action required!

The telematics device in this vehicle is currently deactivated. Upon completion of the Electronic Subscriber Agreement, the device will be automatically reactivated.

However, for the following vehicles (CDMA) new device phone numbers are assigned following re-activation and the telematics control unit must be reprogrammed with the new numbers (MIN & MDN) per SIB 84 22 05.
- MY 2007 and earlier 1, 3, 5, 6, and 7-series, X5 and X6
- MY2008 and earlier Z4

- MY 2010 and earlier X3
The SIB that is referenced explains that once a BMW Assist account is inactive for about six months the phone number assigned to the car (MIN & MDN) is reassigned and will no longer work for that vehicle. It gives a procedure to follow to get a new MIN & MDN assigned to the car. The dealer wanted $175 to do this procedure. I did a lot of searching and found the SIB and the procedure and did it myself. It took me less than 5 minutes for the procedure including making two initialization calls and a test call to verify the information with BMW Assist.

So bottom line, you must go to the dealer to reactivate BMW Assist. In addition, the OP's car is one of the cars that needs to be reprogrammed so the original phone number that was assigned is no longer associated with his car.

As for the OP's original question, BMW Assist is out of the equation in this situation. It cannot be remotely activated and used to track the car under the circumstances described.
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Last edited by SD Z4MR; 12-20-2012 at 11:15 AM.
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  #13  
Old 12-20-2012, 11:14 AM
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shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
The OP's car is a 2005 BMW 530i. If the car presumably came with BMW Assist as part of the original purchase and was free for the first 4 years but the owner let it expire and didn't renew, BMW Assist cannot be activated remotely.

I bought my 2006 Z4 M Roadster this past July and I decided to turn BMW Assist back on as the original owner had let the subscription lapse after the initial 4 years. I called BMW Assist on a land line, gave then the VIN, and told them I wanted to resubscribe. They told me that I could only re-enroll by taking the car in person to a BMW dealer. After the dealer checked my VIN, I had to fill out a BMW Assist subscription form and pay the $199. When the form printed out a separate sheet printed out first that had the following on it (italics and bold mine):
Attention BMW Center Personnel. BMW Assist service action required!

The telematics device in this vehicle is currently deactivated. Upon completion of the Electronic Subscriber Agreement, the device will be automatically reactivated.

However, for the following vehicles (CDMA) new device phone numbers are assigned following re-activation and the telematics control unit must be reprogrammed with the new numbers (MIN & MDN) per SIB 84 22 05.
- MY 2007 and earlier 1, 3, 5, 6, and 7-series, X5 and X6
- MY2008 and earlier Z4

- MY 2010 and earlier X3
The SIB that is referenced explains that once a BMW Assist account is inactive for about six months the phone number assigned to the car (MIN & MDN) is reassigned and will no longer work for that vehicle. It gives a procedure to follow to get a new MIN & MDN assigned to the car. The dealer wanted $175 to do this procedure. I did a lot of searching and found the SIB and the procedure and did it myself. It took me less than 5 minutes for the procedure including making two initialization calls and a test call to verify the information with BMW Assist.

So bottom line, you must go to the dealer to reactivate BMW Assist. In addition, the OP's car is one of the cars that needs to be reprogrammed so the original phone number that was assigned is no longer associated with his car.

As for the OP's original question, BMW Assist is out of the equation in this situation. It cannot be remotely activated and used to track the car under the circumstances described.
Can you post the referenced SIB?
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - 2TB SAT / 6WB MFID Cluster / 4U1 Ceramic Controls / 6NR BMW Apps / Rear Fog Lights / Cyba Double Layer Black Chrome Quad Tips

Last edited by shawnsheridan; 12-20-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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  #14  
Old 12-20-2012, 11:29 AM
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SD Z4MR SD Z4MR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
Can you post the referenced SIB?
Sure. I've attached SI B 84 22 05 and most of the attachments referenced in the SIB that actually spell out the procedure for various years and chassis codes. I've also attached a FAQ that is meant for the dealer that explains a lot of this and tells them how they can get $20 for each reactivation.

I edited my original post to clarify some things and correct grammar. Can you please edit your post to remove my quoted post? Since your post immediately followed mine, there shouldn't be any doubt as to which post you were referring to.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf SIB 84 22 05.pdf (103.0 KB, 147 views)
File Type: pdf B842205_CDMA_Most-bus_Vehicles.pdf (45.5 KB, 92 views)
File Type: pdf B842205_GSM_MOST-bus_Vehicles.pdf (17.3 KB, 86 views)
File Type: pdf B842205_IK-bus_Vehicles.pdf (13.9 KB, 35 views)
File Type: pdf B842205_FAQ.pdf (39.9 KB, 76 views)
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  #15  
Old 12-20-2012, 11:42 AM
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shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
Sure. I've attached SI B 84 22 05 and most of the attachments referenced in the SIB that actually spell out the procedure for various years and chassis codes. I've also attached a FAQ that is meant for the dealer that explains a lot of this and tells them how they can get $20 for each reactivation.

I edited my original post to clarify some things and correct grammar. Can you please edit your post to remove my quoted post? Since your post immediately followed mine, there shouldn't be any doubt as to which post you were referring to.
Thanks. Good information. I updated your quote as well.
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  #16  
Old 12-20-2012, 04:04 PM
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shawnsheridan shawnsheridan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeajordan View Post
My 2005 BMW 530i has been taken from me and hidden. I was going to sell it to an individual but he decided not to pay and has hidden the car. The police says it's not considered stolen because I gave him permission to drive it. In order to go to civil court it's more than I have to pay--court cost, bond for the car, and attorney fees. I'm still paying a $400 monthly car note and my car has been hidden since June. Surely there is some way to track my car -- I didn't sign up for BMW assist. Can't something be done? I'm sick with grief.
This situation perplexed me as on the surface, one would naturally assume that this is straight-up Auto Theft. After all, the one now in possession of the vehicle does not have title (ownership) of it. But indeed, the act of voluntarily surrendering one's keys to someone else, even if just for the purpose of a Test Drive only, complicates things.

I asked my friendly HPD Auto Theft division how one should handle a situation like this, and this is their response:

1) File an "Investigation Auto Report" (in case something happens while the other person is in possession of the vehicle it will be on record as having been reported stolen).
2) Immediately send a "restricted delivery certified mail" 10-Day Demand Letter to the last known address of the individual with the car demanding that the car be returned within 10-Days in the same condition it was in when it was taken.
3) If after 10-Days from the date of Demand Letter receipt signature, take your demand letter and proof of delivery, and Vehicle Title to the police, and they will upgrade the Investigation Auto Report to an "Auto Theft Report".
4) If the Demand Letter receipt signature comes back undeliverable, you can forgo the 10 Days and immediately go to the police and have them upgrade the Investigation Auto Report to an "Auto Theft Report.

So, while NC is not TX, I would imagine they have a very similar process.
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- Mods - 2TB SAT / 6WB MFID Cluster / 4U1 Ceramic Controls / 6NR BMW Apps / Rear Fog Lights / Cyba Double Layer Black Chrome Quad Tips
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2012, 04:37 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmguy View Post
As odd as it sounds, the law is clear in most parts on this issue. Once you voluntarily part with your property, and the person who buys your car simply bounces a check, transfer title, or even just sign a bill of sale it becomes a civil matter and no longer criminal. Which is why the police are looking at this the way they are.

A friend of mine who is an insurance adjuster told me a story a few years ago that broke his heart. He was assigned a case where a guy spend 10 years restoring a car. He came into some hard times and had to sell his car. A guy came by and test drove the car. The buyer liked the car, and asked if he could return the next day with a bank draft for the agreed on 60k. The seller deposited the bankdraft and two weeks later gets a call from his bank saying the draft bounced as it was forged and not valid.

Once the police got involved they said because he had voluntarily parted with the car it was not a Criminal matter. He tried to file the insurance claim which is where my friend got involved and they had to refuse the claim. He spent two weeks trying to figure out what policy language could be used to pay it, but the insurance policy was very clear. There was even specific language in it for exactly this circumstance so they had to deny the claim.

As much as it sucks, I think this is the law in most of North America

If title has not been actually Transfered to the new owner, which is implied with the lack of the new owners plates, getting a repo man may be the best way to get the car, but legal issues may still exist. I would think a lawyer should be consulted before any action is taken or there could be a case for auto theft if he takes it back the wrong way.

As a side note, if he wants to track it with BMW assist, I think you can activate the service remotely. But his problem is they will not track the car without a police report, which he can not get under the circumstances. He could try the iPad app for location services, however it seems to restrict location If your car is more than few miles/km away from where ever it is you are when ask for the cars location from your iPad or iPhone

Bottom line this is not easy to do as he requested. And based on what Information is supplied it is clearly a civil matter.

With that said. Why would one just not put a stop payment on the car, and let BMW repo the car and clean up the mess with title? They technically have a lean on the car on own it? Doesn't do much for your credit rating I'm sure, but could get this done quickly if no other options are found.
All I can say is check fraud and bouncing a check with criminal intent surely has to be construed as theft. Anyway, if the OP knows where he lives, best he pay him a visit with some of his friends. Are you really sure it is a civil matter? In every State? Seems odd. Can't be like that in Texas! In Canada if you obtain credit by false pretences including knowingly passing bad checks, I believe it's a criminal offence.
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Last edited by PeterC4; 12-20-2012 at 04:41 PM.
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2012, 04:55 PM
Hopeajordan Hopeajordan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnsheridan View Post
This situation perplexed me as on the surface, one would naturally assume that this is straight-up Auto Theft. After all, the one now in possession of the vehicle does not have title (ownership) of it. But indeed, the act of voluntarily surrendering one's keys to someone else, even if just for the purpose of a Test Drive only, complicates things.

I asked my friendly HPD Auto Theft division how one should handle a situation like this, and this is their response:

1) File an "Investigation Auto Report" (in case something happens while the other person is in possession of the vehicle it will be on record as having been reported stolen).
2) Immediately send a "restricted delivery certified mail" 10-Day Demand Letter to the last known address of the individual with the car demanding that the car be returned within 10-Days in the same condition it was in when it was taken.
3) If after 10-Days from the date of Demand Letter receipt signature, take your demand letter and proof of delivery, and Vehicle Title to the police, and they will upgrade the Investigation Auto Report to an "Auto Theft Report".
4) If the Demand Letter receipt signature comes back undeliverable, you can forgo the 10 Days and immediately go to the police and have them upgrade the Investigation Auto Report to an "Auto Theft Report.

So, while NC is not TX, I would imagine they have a very similar process.
Oh wow. Okay, first off I am still paying on the car and the bank has the title. If u think it sounds crazy to u imagine how I felt when I was in the car and the police made me get out because it was in his yard. I have one key to the car.

My friend who is a Lutenant at the Ws police station tells me that its strictly civil and the can do nothing. I went to the magristrste as well and he said "civil".

I am going to call her now and ask about an "investigative auto".
Thanks for the advice. I hope this works.

Last edited by Hopeajordan; 12-20-2012 at 05:17 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2012, 05:16 PM
Hopeajordan Hopeajordan is offline
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Okay, I just talked to my friend that's a Lutenant and she said I should go to the sheriffs office to see if they will do this --they may also say its civil. However she said I could file a Police Service Report with the Pd just to inform them of what's going on if the sheriffs office doesn't help.

I hope this works....pray for me. Thanks again for at least a little hope, I was feeling really down.

Last edited by Hopeajordan; 12-20-2012 at 05:19 PM.
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2012, 06:15 PM
Hopeajordan Hopeajordan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRIPLE_O View Post
This is so ridiculous. There has to be something you're not telling us. Do you have the title? Did you sign it over to the guy already? Why are you in a situation where he was able to take your car like this?

Do you have any keys or he has them too?
Yes, I'll admit that I've made a terrible mistake. I've known him and his wife for about 15+ years. They initially started making payments and always promised to pay it off by a certain date but never did. In the intrim i let them "park" it at their house because i had just seperated and was living with my sister. So, to keep it off the street it seemed like the thing to do--our contract stipulated that the car was not to be driven by either party until paid-in-full. Then they just stopped paying.

I still owe the bank and the payment is drafted out if my account each month. So, the bank holds the title. I do have one key and he has the other.

I deserve to be thought of as stupid.
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  #21  
Old 12-20-2012, 06:52 PM
bmguy bmguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterC4 View Post
All I can say is check fraud and bouncing a check with criminal intent surely has to be construed as theft. Anyway, if the OP knows where he lives, best he pay him a visit with some of his friends. Are you really sure it is a civil matter? In every State? Seems odd. Can't be like that in Texas! In Canada if you obtain credit by false pretences including knowingly passing bad checks, I believe it's a criminal offence.
Well the act of the check fraud is criminal, the civil matter is purely related to getting the car back... so what you think of of as criminal is in fact 100% accurate, with the exception of the way in property has transferred from one person to another. In this case fraud as the instrument doesn't secure title back for his property;

As I said before the law may be different from state to state on this, but for the most part I believe this holds true in many, if not all the states. Keep in mind the actual act of the fraud itself (Check fraud etc) is criminal (which is expected) but the title transfer itself becomes a civil matter as I believe it falls under contract law. I think the law needs to be changed in this area however as it should be a criminal offence if the contract was executed by means of fraud by any party.

My personal suspicion is that the police would spend significant amount of time with these issues, and as such not have the resources to do "more serious" law enforcement. The concept of a sherif I think would be an ideal place for this sort of issue to rest with and get resolved.

I feel for the original poster, and while he self proclaims "I deserve to be thought of as stupid." the fact remains this is a friend of 15 years who one would have expected to be honourable should have acted as such. If he in fact cant afford the payments anymore - he should just return the car to the owner and consider the payments he has made as a rental fee...

In this case, this appears to not be two strangers - both should have made better decisions, but.... here is where it is, he is asking for advice on how to make it better....

If you can
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  #22  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:07 PM
Hopeajordan Hopeajordan is offline
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Bmguy, I'm a female... Just so you'll know 8-). I'm going to the sheriffs office in the morning. Hopefully, just by some sort of luck they will be able to help. If not, HUGE lesson learned already. I don't know what else to do. I'm looking for any advice I can get at this point. So... Here I am.
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  #23  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:14 PM
PeterC4 PeterC4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Hopeajordan View Post
Yes, I'll admit that I've made a terrible mistake. I've known him and his wife for about 15+ years. They initially started making payments and always promised to pay it off by a certain date but never did. In the intrim i let them "park" it at their house because i had just seperated and was living with my sister. So, to keep it off the street it seemed like the thing to do--our contract stipulated that the car was not to be driven by either party until paid-in-full. Then they just stopped paying.

I still owe the bank and the payment is drafted out if my account each month. So, the bank holds the title. I do have one key and he has the other.

I deserve to be thought of as stupid.
Okay, now it is clearer. If you've got a written deal the way you stipulated then you should have good recourse. 15+ years eh? No different then a bank, he hasn't paid - you should repo it.
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  #24  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:21 PM
bmguy bmguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeajordan View Post
Bmguy, I'm a female... Just so you'll know 8-). I'm going to the sheriffs office in the morning. Hopefully, just by some sort of luck they will be able to help. If not, HUGE lesson learned already. I don't know what else to do. I'm looking for any advice I can get at this point. So... Here I am.
Sorry - I didn't pay attention to the handle I guess...

I was thinking about this more since the post, if things don't work out with the sherif in the morning; there certainly is an implied contract as they were making payments etc. Hopefully you have some sort of paper work for an agreement, or paper trail? if you do, this could be a small claims matter for you and get some resolve that way if if the value of the contract fits within your areas small claims limits.

At the end of the day, it sounds promising to get the car back as you will have prev payment history, which hopefully means you have some sort of written agreement for how much they were to pay, for how long etc.

i also think the advice shawnsheridan and just now PeterC4 provided is good also, and could help you. I think if read his suggestions properly it is to treat this as a standard repossession for non payment under contract law. This sounds promising....

Last edited by bmguy; 12-20-2012 at 07:24 PM.
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  #25  
Old 12-20-2012, 09:01 PM
Hopeajordan Hopeajordan is offline
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Thanks to you all for your advice. The value according to the contract is $15k; therefore, it doesn't fall in the small claims court. Then to top it off the clerk of court says that I must have the car bonded at $15k when going to court. This is why I was trying to track it using BMW assist. I just don't have the resources for all the fees associated with court.

I also spoke with the DMV who suggested turning in the tag-which I took back leaving the car unregistered. I called my insurance agent and he advised against it stating that I need liability just in case there is an accident and the Lein holder requires insurance.

I spoke with a repo guy who said to get a form from the license plate agency which authorizes him to repo it; I did that but the Lein holder had to sign the document used to repo a vehicle. Then, the lady at the bank whom I know we'll said the bank couldn't sign it because I'm not behind in payments. So, I can't have it legally repoed.

Fifteen years, yes, I was simply foolish and that's the bottom line.

If the sheriff can't help I don't think I have any other options. He's hidden the car well, I'm sure.
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