Next Generation X5 Spotted Peeling Off Some Camo

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

It has a good interior, but that's about it. If you get a loaded one with all the suspension upgrades, etc, it drives decent, but it is let down by one thing, the steering. It has zero feeling at all. Nothing like the X5.

The extra money on its bigger brother (the X5), is well spent IMO.

If I was in that segment, I would buy an Audi Q5, not the X3.

The last time I took my wife's A8 in for service they gave me a Q5 2.0t as a loaner with all the options. It was a nice solid little SUV. If I were interested in a small SUV, I'd put it high on the list, but with the 6 cylinder not the 4.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

It has a good interior, but that's about it. If you get a loaded one with all the suspension upgrades, etc, it drives decent, but it is let down by one thing, the steering. It has zero feeling at all. Nothing like the X5.

The extra money on its bigger brother (the X5), is well spent IMO.

If I was in that segment, I would buy an Audi Q5, not the X3.

And the Q5 will have diesel next time.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

There were rumors of the X7 getting green-lighted before the recession, then it got put on hold. The Mercedes GL essentially has the segment to itself. And I see tons of them everyday. BMW would be smart to jump in.

GL must blend in Bay Area too well. I don't see them at all. I do see tons of BMW X5. Today, I spotted another Red BMW X5 Although, it is a pre LCI model.

To me the shape looks like Toyota Highlander
I hope it will not come with the new electric steering as the X3 /too soft for BMW I hate it/

Originally Posted by Whippa

Kind of looks like the MDX.....only reason I would wait is for 8 gears on the diesel

About the 8 speed transmission on the diesel, I think it will be too much shifting. It has plenty of torque and doesn't need to shift as often as the gas version. If you ask me I'd only add 7 speed after the 6th to the current generation X5 diesel. That will ease the engine at highway speeds, keeping the RPM up to 2000 which will also get a significant mpg improvement I can easy bet over 30mpg

Henry come down to the valley and you will see GL's all over the place. Sometimes they are hard to spot because from certain angles they look like the ML. Of course, there are also X5's all over the place too! About the only one that you rarely see here is the T-egg. Even the Cayenne's are getting thick on the ground here. Must be too many IPO's cashing out!

Originally Posted by tol4o

About the 8 speed transmission on the diesel, I think it will be too much shifting. It has plenty of torque and doesn't need to shift as often as the gas version. If you ask me I'd only add 7 speed after the 6th to the current generation X5 diesel. That will ease the engine at highway speeds, keeping the RPM up to 2000 which will also get a significant mpg improvement I can easy bet over 30mpg

Audi and VW have no problem using a ZF 8 speed on their less-powerful single-turbo diesel models.

The new Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel will also have the ZF sourced 8 speed for their 240 hp VM oil burner.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Henry come down to the valley and you will see GL's all over the place. Sometimes they are hard to spot because from certain angles they look like the ML. Of course, there are also X5's all over the place too! About the only one that you rarely see here is the T-egg. Even the Cayenne's are getting thick on the ground here. Must be too many IPO's cashing out!

I was able to spot a couple GL after you mentioned they look like ML. They do look alike. I don't understand why automaker just reuse the same exterior design.

BMW does the same thing as well. BMW 5 and 7 just look like each other with size differences. BMW X5 will look like X3 based on the photos and videos. I guess all these modular platform just ensure everything is the same. That is just boring.

I also do not understand Porsche styling. They always seem to have the same front.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

The new Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel will also have the ZF sourced 8 speed for their 240 hp VM oil burner.

The Jeep starts to sound pretty nice now.

Originally Posted by henrycyao

The Jeep starts to sound pretty nice now.

no thanks. Poor resale, quality, fit and finish.

Originally Posted by henrycyao

GL must blend in Bay Area too well. I don't see them at all. I do see tons of BMW X5. Today, I spotted another Red BMW X5 Although, it is a pre LCI model.

I went to Best Buy to go buy a portable HDD drive today. Came out to another Vermillion Red pre-LCI X5 30i parked right next to mine. Should have gotten a picture because this will probably only ever happen once

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

There were rumors of the X7 getting green-lighted before the recession, then it got put on hold. The Mercedes GL essentially has the segment to itself. And I see tons of them everyday. BMW would be smart to jump in.

The GL shares that market with the Audi Q7 (Huge lumbering mass seating 7 comfortably) & a slew of American-made giants as well as the QX56 from Infiniti and...well, you get the point. BMW doesn't want to be "just another" huge lumbering vehicle. It would HAVE to incorporate ALL the technologies that are optional on these X5's (like AD, adaptive headlights, etc) and that would drive the prices well higher than the GL so it may just be that BMW has decided to forego the minimal extra sales for larger profit margins that they continue to experience in these X5's fully optioned out.

Originally Posted by ndabunka

The GL shares that market with the Audi Q7 (Huge lumbering mass seating 7 comfortably) & a slew of American-made giants as well as the QX56 from Infiniti and...well, you get the point. BMW doesn't want to be "just another" huge lumbering vehicle. It would HAVE to incorporate ALL the technologies that are optional on these X5's (like AD, adaptive headlights, etc) and that would drive the prices well higher than the GL so it may just be that BMW has decided to forego the minimal extra sales for larger profit margins that they continue to experience in these X5's fully optioned out.

I had a Q7 before the X5 and it really doesn't compete with the GL. It's too small. The 3rd row is just as useless as the one on the X5. It might look huge on the outside, but it's basically a X5 competitor, just slightly more spacious on the inside.

Don't think the QX or any of the American SUVs hold a candle to the GL. It's in a class of its own in terms of technology, quality, and space.

If Mercedes can offer everything off of a ML on a larger GL (and now a GL AMG!), there is no reason for BMW not to. In fact, it would probably drive better than a GL.

The domestic SUV (and that's what they are, not SAV's) market is a specific one, designed for those who want a reliable and useful truck (again, that's what they are -- not cars pretending to be trucks). Do they have BMW/MB handling, features, etc. -- no. What they do have is space. Anyone who has taken a trip in a Suburban with 6 of their closest friends will understand the popularity of these machines. I am an unreconstructed domestic SUV lover. I enjoy the space, the reliability, inexpensive maintenance/repairs and the utility. What I don't enjoy is the fuel useage. I would sell my BMW tomorrow and get a diesel Tahoe if they offered it again! The upcoming Jeep GC is interesting. It is built on the ML underpinnings (back when MB owned Chrysler) and with that nice diesel may well be a contender. Certainly well worth looking at -- along with the Q5 TDI if it gets more than 30 mpg.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

The domestic SUV (and that's what they are, not SAV's) market is a specific one, designed for those who want a reliable and useful truck (again, that's what they are -- not cars pretending to be trucks). Do they have BMW/MB handling, features, etc. -- no. What they do have is space. Anyone who has taken a trip in a Suburban with 6 of their closest friends will understand the popularity of these machines. I am an unreconstructed domestic SUV lover. I enjoy the space, the reliability, inexpensive maintenance/repairs and the utility. What I don't enjoy is the fuel useage. I would sell my BMW tomorrow and get a diesel Tahoe if they offered it again! The upcoming Jeep GC is interesting. It is built on the ML underpinnings (back when MB owned Chrysler) and with that nice diesel may well be a contender. Certainly well worth looking at -- along with the Q5 TDI if it gets more than 30 mpg.

I looked up a review of Suburban since I never know what it looks like inside. Wow, that thing is a giant. It will be hard to make the car drive well. It makes the X5 look darn right small. Even then, X5's turning circle is really bad.

Yes, I do wish BMW has better reputation for reliability. The Chevy will be more reliable but not so with Jeep and Chrysler brand.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

I had a Q7 before the X5 and it really doesn't compete with the GL. It's too small. The 3rd row is just as useless as the one on the X5. It might look huge on the outside, but it's basically a X5 competitor, just slightly more spacious on the inside.

Don't think the QX or any of the American SUVs hold a candle to the GL. It's in a class of its own in terms of technology, quality, and space.

If Mercedes can offer everything off of a ML on a larger GL (and now a GL AMG!), there is no reason for BMW not to. In fact, it would probably drive better than a GL.

Totally agree with you on these comments. The GL is awfully nice to drive if you need a third row frequently and can stomach the sticker with options. Not an X5 competitor in my book, since I think the BMW third row is a waste of time. The Q7 is pretty small in back for dealing with all of that length in daily use. Not worth it to me, but a great front seat environment for sure.
I also think it's a bit funny how the Range Rover doesnt even offer a third row except in the lower level Land Rover line. As if, the Queen won't have any of that...haha.
I'm curious to drive the new one with the weight loss program.

Originally Posted by henrycyao

I looked up a review of Suburban since I never know what it looks like inside. Wow, that thing is a giant. It will be hard to make the car drive well. It makes the X5 look darn right small. Even then, X5's turning circle is really bad.

Yes, I do wish BMW has better reputation for reliability. The Chevy will be more reliable but not so with Jeep and Chrysler brand.

I wouldn't say that GM products are more reliable. I just traded in my 2009 GMC Acadia on the X5. The interior was total crap plastic, and I was on the THIRD timing chain in 65,000 miles. BTW the engine needs to come out to replace the timing chain. Talk about rattles etc. The positives on the GMC were that it had room for 7 comfortably and the cooled seats were a lot better than what BMW offers.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

I had a Q7 before the X5 and it really doesn't compete with the GL. It's too small. The 3rd row is just as useless as the one on the X5. It might look huge on the outside, but it's basically a X5 competitor, just slightly more spacious on the inside.

Don't think the QX or any of the American SUVs hold a candle to the GL. It's in a class of its own in terms of technology, quality, and space.

If Mercedes can offer everything off of a ML on a larger GL (and now a GL AMG!), there is no reason for BMW not to. In fact, it would probably drive better than a GL.

The closest thing I see to a true GL competitor is an LR4. I personally would rather have the LR4 even with their terrible reliability. The majority of attainable M-Bs lack character in my opinion, unless it's an AMG or designo edition. Every time I'm in one the interior could just as easily be a Lexus product which, is not bad from a quality stand point it just means it feels mass produced and not special.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

I went to Best Buy to go buy a portable HDD drive today. Came out to another Vermillion Red pre-LCI X5 30i parked right next to mine. Should have gotten a picture because this will probably only ever happen once

Did it happen by any chance on DECEMBER 21ST

Originally Posted by tol4o

To me the shape looks like Toyota Highlander
I hope it will not come with the new electric steering as the X3 /too soft for BMW I hate it/



About the 8 speed transmission on the diesel, I think it will be too much shifting. It has plenty of torque and doesn't need to shift as often as the gas version. If you ask me I'd only add 7 speed after the 6th to the current generation X5 diesel. That will ease the engine at highway speeds, keeping the RPM up to 2000 which will also get a significant mpg improvement I can easy bet over 30mpg

I can bet you all the money in the world that it will have the EPS UNIT!

the 8 speed/many gears concept is great for any motor, fuel efficiency wise, especially on long interstate drives.

What kills it is (not just BMW but any mfg for the many gears concept):

a)when you have to downshift to pass lanes or up a hill, the programming doesnt skip gears
b) when you are driving around town it tries to hunt for the highest gear possible.
c) Throttle lag due to hunting of gears

Originally Posted by UncleJ

The new Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel will also have the ZF sourced 8 speed for their 240 hp VM oil burner.

Originally Posted by henrycyao

The Jeep starts to sound pretty nice now.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

no thanks. Poor resale, quality, fit and finish.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

The domestic SUV (and that's what they are, not SAV's) market is a specific one, designed for those who want a reliable and useful truck (again, that's what they are -- not cars pretending to be trucks). Do they have BMW/MB handling, features, etc. -- no. What they do have is space. Anyone who has taken a trip in a Suburban with 6 of their closest friends will understand the popularity of these machines. I am an unreconstructed domestic SUV lover. I enjoy the space, the reliability, inexpensive maintenance/repairs and the utility. What I don't enjoy is the fuel useage. I would sell my BMW tomorrow and get a diesel Tahoe if they offered it again! The upcoming Jeep GC is interesting. It is built on the ML underpinnings (back when MB owned Chrysler) and with that nice diesel may well be a contender. Certainly well worth looking at -- along with the Q5 TDI if it gets more than 30 mpg.

Originally Posted by henrycyao

I looked up a review of Suburban since I never know what it looks like inside. Wow, that thing is a giant. It will be hard to make the car drive well. It makes the X5 look darn right small. Even then, X5's turning circle is really bad.

Yes, I do wish BMW has better reputation for reliability. The Chevy will be more reliable but not so with Jeep and Chrysler brand.

Originally Posted by BeamerandBimmer

I wouldn't say that GM products are more reliable. I just traded in my 2009 GMC Acadia on the X5. The interior was total crap plastic, and I was on the THIRD timing chain in 65,000 miles. BTW the engine needs to come out to replace the timing chain. Talk about rattles etc. The positives on the GMC were that it had room for 7 comfortably and the cooled seats were a lot better than what BMW offers.

The Jeep GC doesnt hold its value like most american cars once you drive of the lot. However the vehicle itself is a steal considering the underpinnings of the design are straight off the current W166. Inside its again a fiat Jeep mix, but it resembles the W166 interior layout. The jeep does have a pretty good offroad tech (however I think the last gen was more capable). Also the diesel is promising since im sure that the engine has been designed and/or tinkered by Fiat who are much more knowledgeable with diesel motors. All in all, the jeep is for the person who wants something capable, and likes to A) lease cars frequently or B) the person who likes to hold on to their vehicles for a VERY LONG TIME.

In regards to say GM or Chevy or Cadillac GMT930s (subie, escalade, and yukon) theyre mostly there to move stuff such as inanimate objects or people. These vehicles are also rounding out there lifecycles and the 12th gen i believe is coming out (their pickup truck brothers, aka the silverado just came out). The only reason you want to get one of those is
a) you need the space
b) You are a rapper and need the "BLING"
c) IDK think of something that needs space and bling

the GMT930s are amazing at what they do. No European SUV can compare. Plus the reliability (this aint a toyota) is ok, but since the GMTs share components your bound to find enough parts and qualified mechanics to help you if they breakdown.

Originally Posted by henrycyao

GL must blend in Bay Area too well. I don't see them at all. I do see tons of BMW X5. Today, I spotted another Red BMW X5 Although, it is a pre LCI model.

Originally Posted by UncleJ

Henry come down to the valley and you will see GL's all over the place. Sometimes they are hard to spot because from certain angles they look like the ML. Of course, there are also X5's all over the place too! About the only one that you rarely see here is the T-egg. Even the Cayenne's are getting thick on the ground here. Must be too many IPO's cashing out!

Originally Posted by henrycyao

I was able to spot a couple GL after you mentioned they look like ML. They do look alike. I don't understand why automaker just reuse the same exterior design.

BMW does the same thing as well. BMW 5 and 7 just look like each other with size differences. BMW X5 will look like X3 based on the photos and videos. I guess all these modular platform just ensure everything is the same. That is just boring.

I also do not understand Porsche styling. They always seem to have the same front.

Originally Posted by ndabunka

The GL shares that market with the Audi Q7 (Huge lumbering mass seating 7 comfortably) & a slew of American-made giants as well as the QX56 from Infiniti and...well, you get the point. BMW doesn't want to be "just another" huge lumbering vehicle. It would HAVE to incorporate ALL the technologies that are optional on these X5's (like AD, adaptive headlights, etc) and that would drive the prices well higher than the GL so it may just be that BMW has decided to forego the minimal extra sales for larger profit margins that they continue to experience in these X5's fully optioned out.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

I had a Q7 before the X5 and it really doesn't compete with the GL. It's too small. The 3rd row is just as useless as the one on the X5. It might look huge on the outside, but it's basically a X5 competitor, just slightly more spacious on the inside.

Don't think the QX or any of the American SUVs hold a candle to the GL. It's in a class of its own in terms of technology, quality, and space.

If Mercedes can offer everything off of a ML on a larger GL (and now a GL AMG!), there is no reason for BMW not to. In fact, it would probably drive better than a GL.

Originally Posted by pa50i

Totally agree with you on these comments. The GL is awfully nice to drive if you need a third row frequently and can stomach the sticker with options. Not an X5 competitor in my book, since I rhino the BMW third row is a waste of time. The Q7 is pretty small in back for dealing with all of that length in daily use. Not worth it to me, but a great front seat environment for sure.
I also think it's a bit funny how the Range Rover doesnt even offer a third row except in the lower level Land Rover line. As if, the Queen won't have any of that...haha.
I'm curious to drive the new one with the weight loss program.

Originally Posted by hotrod2448

The closest thing I see to a true GL competitor is an LR4. I personally would rather have the LR4 even with their terrible reliability. The majority of attainable M-Bs lack character in my opinion, unless it's an AMG or designo edition. Every time I'm in one the interior could just as easily be a Lexus product which, is not bad from a quality stand point it just means it feels mass produced and not special.

In regards to the euro offerings on the BIG CROSSOVER LUXURY MARKET:

The competitors are quite minimal: GL

Thats literally it. The GL, ATM, is the biggest crossover of them all.

Pros:
-it drives like a MB should (comfortable, relaxed, luxrious)
-Doesnt hide that its a crossover
-interior is beautiful
-Gl caters to almost every driver, (GL450, 350, 550, AMG)

Cons:
-It has some weird production delays (ie no leather for certain models yet, and some of the launch marketing options dont exist due to delays
-The infotainment systems are really last generation, and sometimes not User Friendly (ie the backup camera will only activate if you have the radio on)
-quirky packages for the options

There are 4 main vehicles in this category:

LR's LR4
Lexus LX
Infiniti QX
Caddy Escalade

That being said, it depends on your brand image perception (some consider the LX, QX, and escad pricier versions of their siblings ie. Land Cruiser, Armada, and YUKON or SUB respectively).

These 4 candidates really define what BIG LUXURY SUVS are about***********:

They have tons of room, refinement in terms of gadgets (escalade kinda not), and behemoth engines.

After April 2013 the X3 xdrive20d will come to US. The model number for US version will most likely be X3 xdrive28d only because xdrive20d will sound leak for the Americans. It will have the same 4-cyl twin-turbo diesel with 183HP and amazing 42 MPG
This X3 will be a direct competitor to the upcoming Q5 2.0 TDI

Originally Posted by UncleJ

The domestic SUV (and that's what they are, not SAV's) market is a specific one, designed for those who want a reliable and useful truck (again, that's what they are -- not cars pretending to be trucks). Do they have BMW/MB handling, features, etc. -- no. What they do have is space. Anyone who has taken a trip in a Suburban with 6 of their closest friends will understand the popularity of these machines. I am an unreconstructed domestic SUV lover. I enjoy the space, the reliability, inexpensive maintenance/repairs and the utility. What I don't enjoy is the fuel useage. I would sell my BMW tomorrow and get a diesel Tahoe if they offered it again! The upcoming Jeep GC is interesting. It is built on the ML underpinnings (back when MB owned Chrysler) and with that nice diesel may well be a contender. Certainly well worth looking at -- along with the Q5 TDI if it gets more than 30 mpg.

I agree with you on the bulletproof nature of GM SUVs, but Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler products? Hell no.

They have been at the bottom of every reliability/quality survey for the last couple years and NOTHING has improved. A guy in my apartment building has a JGC and he was telling me his is constantly in the dealer for something or another and it cost him $50k+ for his loaded model!