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Where does the Album Art come from?

19K views 49 replies 20 participants last post by  RuneS 
#1 ·
When I play music from either a data CD (ie MP3s) or a USB drive (again, MP3s), often I get album art. I know for an absolute fact that there is no artwork coming from the source (CD or USB). However, they are tagged properly, for the most part.

So is it looking to the cloud to get the artwork? Thru what connection does it do this? What database does it call? What TAG field is it looking at? The few that don't display correctly, if I know what cloud database, and which field, I can correct them.

Thanks!
 
#2 ·
When I play music from either a data CD (ie MP3s) or a USB drive (again, MP3s), often I get album art. I know for an absolute fact that there is no artwork coming from the source (CD or USB). However, they are tagged properly, for the most part.

So is it looking to the cloud to get the artwork? Thru what connection does it do this? What database does it call? What TAG field is it looking at? The few that don't display correctly, if I know what cloud database, and which field, I can correct them.

Thanks!
This is straight from the manual.

"Music recognition technology and related
data are provided by Gracenote®.
Gracenote is the industry standard in music recognition
technology and related content delivery.
For more information, please visit
www.gracenote.com."

JEG23
 
#3 ·
Thanks! I searched my online manual, but forgot that "Entertainment" is in a separate manual, that's not available electronically.

Off to visit Gracenote...
 
#5 ·
Gracenote doesn't allow commoners into their database. Even to look.:thumbdwn:

From their site:
Gracenote made the hard decision to remove the website search in favor of focusing the site and our web resources on our customers. Many millions of you will still use Gracenote's recognition technology daily, on your desktop with products like iTunes and Winamp, on your mobile phones, in your cars and home entertainment systems. Thank you for understanding.
They consider their customers to be developers, not the end-user. And while they are strictly correct, it makes for a non user-friendly service in this day and age of open access.

Our new website was designed to meet the needs of our developers and those of content creators and owners - our customers.
 
#4 ·
Oh, I noticed one weird bug already (I'm sure I'll discover more:)). Playing from the USB port, I did a search for a specific artist. It found 10 songs (the USB drive had about 5,000 MP3s across dozens of folders). When I played those ten songs, it displayed album art from other artists.

Example: "I've Seen All Good People" by YES, but the artwork was from a Frank Sinatra CD.

It was my first time playing around with this (only had the car about a week), and I was driving, so I didn't have a chance to explore. I'll have to see if there is any rhyme or reason to it. Perhaps it grabbed the art that went with the 1st track of that folder, even if the song being played was track 50. Or whatever.

But definitely a bug. :dunno:
 
#6 ·
Back to Your Last Question Pertaining to Correcting Data

I wanted to re-address your last question pertaining to making changes, espcially after you download music onto your internal HD in the car. Were you able to find if there was any way to make changes to say, unknown track, unknown artist?
 
#10 ·
I wanted to re-address your last question pertaining to making changes, espcially after you download music onto your internal HD in the car. Were you able to find if there was any way to make changes to say, unknown track, unknown artist?
I'm working on this as we speak.:p

As an aside, I am not d/l'ing to the internal HD. I have a 16GB USB stick that has more than enough music for now. So I don't see any reason to use the HD. Plus, it's a no-brainer to change the USB drive; I have no idea how to change the internal BMW HD. I'm sure I could learn, but who cares?

Some tracks show art, some don't. For some, it's obvious why not. Weird compilation names for the Album Name, that are probably not a real album, but a made-up name ("Best Hits of the Vietnam Era" :dunno:). But some I can't figure out why they don't display. I have listened to some albums that are very simply--one artist, one album name, both short & sweet, and spelled correctly. Why don't they display?

So I am running an experiment. I am taking a track that works, and playing with a variety of the Tags. I am going to see if I can figure out which ones are critical for info, and if things like spelling affect it. I'll copy this MP3 a dozen times, change the Tag info on each copy in some minor way, and see what happens.

I'll report back.
 
#9 · (Edited)
A vague answer that is not correct. My USB stick has nothing but MP3s on it, no JPGs at all, so it can't come from the USB stick. And, my Tags do NOT contain album art. Now if you are saying it uses the meta-data (AKA Tags) to retrieve the album art from somewhere, you are correct.

It was clear from my original post that I am aware it uses the TAG info (I referred to it). My question was along the lines of "where does it go to get the art". Gracenote seems to be the answer, according to JEG23 and the manual.
 
#8 ·
So is it looking to the cloud to get the artwork? Thru what connection does it do this? What database does it call? What TAG field is it looking at? The few that don't display correctly, if I know what cloud database, and which field, I can correct them.
mp3 metadata
 
#18 ·
For commercial CDs it comes from Grecenote.
For mp3s it comes from the tags, if you have them set and true for BT or USB connected devices. No cover art from mp3s on the harddrive even if they have the right tags (some will say they get it from the harddrive too, but I don't believe them).
 
#20 ·
For commercial CDs it comes from Grecenote.
For mp3s it comes from the tags, if you have them set and true for BT or USB connected devices.
This poor horse is being flogged beyond redemption.:eeps:

For MP3s, it uses the info in the Tags to then go online via cell to Gracenote, where it finds the album art. Why would you think for commercial CDs it would use Gracenote, but it wouldn't for an MP3? That doesn't even begin to make sense.

Astrohip, thanks. You're probably still working on it. I just wanted to identify to everyone my minor (I say minor because its not a big deal, but it would just be a real huge inconvenience) concern.
I know it's minor, to you and I both, but it's still one of those things my mind refuses to just let go. I'm going to play with those Tags until I figure out which ones it uses, and what affect minor changes have (like misspellings).

I'm away for the weekend (although with my car), so probably won't get around to this for a few days.
 
#22 ·
If I'm understanding your post correctly, you have the album art ON YOUR IPOD. And it displays.

Want to try an experiment?

1) Pick any song, remove the JPG from your iPod, and the plug it back in and see what happens. I'm curious...

2) Pick any song, change the JPG to some other album cover, then play that song and see what displays.

Thanks.
 
#23 ·
I just purchased a 2013 F11 and have been copying my music libary via a USB stick onto the internal storage. I had assumed that it was using a local Gracenote database to display album art but after running some tests, I'm not so sure that Gracenote is used for artwork with music on the internal storage or USB storage.

I'm using mp3tag to inspect my mp3 files and the artwork metadata in particular. I found some mp3 files that had the cover art but the art was not being displayed by the BMW either from the USB stick or internal storage. After running some test, I think that the issue is the size of the image. Some recent music I downloaded had cover art with an image size of 1605x1490 that was not being displayed in the car. When I replaced the cover art metadata with mp3tag, to a smaller 300x300 image the car would now display the cover art.

Technically, it makes no sense to me that they would use Gracenote for CD info but not mp3 files but I'm beginning to believe that's the case. Maybe BMW only licensed Gracenote for use with CD's figuring they could save money but not also paying to license it for use with mp3's.
 
#24 ·
I just purchased a 2013 F11 and have been copying my music libary via a USB stick onto the internal storage. I had assumed that it was using a local Gracenote database to display album art but after running some tests, I'm not so sure that Gracenote is used for artwork with music on the internal storage or USB storage.
<snip>
Technically, it makes no sense to me that they would use Gracenote for CD info but not mp3 files but I'm beginning to believe that's the case. Maybe BMW only licensed Gracenote for use with CD's figuring they could save money but not also paying to license it for use with mp3's.
If you read my posts above, you will see I disproved this. I absolutely do not have album art or JPGs in my MP3s. And when I play them from a data CD or USB stick, it displays the art. So it MUST get it from somewhere--internal or external I don't know, but not from the MP3. I am very familiar with MP3TAG and how to use it, trust me when I say I don't have artwork TAG'ed.

However, I can't confirm the opposite. I intend to play around and see if I can force artwork from the MP3 Tag. Now that the holidays are over I should have some time to try this.
 
#26 ·
This may seem like a dumb question but how do you get the album artwork to display for CDs? I get the album name, artist and songs displayed (for those albums Gracenote can recognize) but I never get the album art. I get the album art for my mp3s that have it embedded but that's it.
 
#27 ·
Answers! I finally ran some tests. First, the settings & background criteria:

* This was done on a USB drive, so I can't guarantee the same results with any other media (CDs whether audio or data/MP3).

* I used MP3TAG as the tagger.

* I used an MP3 for my testing that did NOT have any embedded cover art TAGs, yet displayed artwork when played. Specifically: Artist: Jimmy Buffett, Album:Fruitcakes, Title: Uncle John's Band. It displayed the Fruitcakes cover when I played it.

* I made sure there was NO artwork on the USB drive (folder.jpg, or cover-art.jpg, etc), and I made sure there was no art work embedded to start off. In fact, I used a newly formatted USB drive to make sure it was empty.

* And just to confirm that it goes online to get the art work, I pulled my car into a garage that I know prevents a decent online signal, and no artwork displayed. I then drove out, and it popped up.

Ok, this was all BEFORE I started the tests, to set the baseline.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

First discovery, if there is cover art embedded (TAG'ed) in the MP3, it will use that first. I embedded a random JPG in this MP3, and it displayed that rather than the Fruitcake cover. So embedded Cover-TAGs override any online artwork. Removed that TAG and it went right back to the online cover it had found.

Then I checked what TAGs were already present in this MP3. ARTIST, ALBUM and TITLE were all there, along with several others. So I started playing with those three.

It turns out, and this seems obvious in hindsight, that the cover art is retrieved based on ARTIST and ALBUM. TITLE, which is the individual song title, is ignored. As long as those two were accurate, the cover art was correct. I could change the song title to anything, even random strings, and the cover art stayed correct. Whatever I changed the TITLE to was displayed on the bottom part of the screen, as it always does.

However, changing the TAGs ALBUM or ARTIST to anything else was enough to kill the art display. I haven't played around with slight misspellings, so I don't know if an exact match is required, or if there is some fuzzy logic being applied. I will try that in the next round of experiments.

It also totally ignores the actual file name. Only TAGs affect the display. I changed the filename to some random string, and all behavior remained as described above.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My next experiments are going to include cover size/resolution, and see what affect they have on the display. Better, worse, etc. Are there limits to resolution resizing, for example. I'll also play with using my own cover art, to get artwork that I want, rather than what Gracenote wants me to see. And the fuzzy logic misspelling I mentioned above.

One thing I did not test is whether folder.jpg in the folder will override anything--either the embedded TAG or the online results. I probably won't test this, as that's a WMP default, and I don't use it or rely on it.
 
#42 ·
One thing I did not test is whether folder.jpg in the folder will override anything--either the embedded TAG or the online results. I probably won't test this, as that's a WMP default, and I don't use it or rely on it.
Did some more playing around...

* If there is a FOLDER.JPG in the current folder, it -will- display that image. I had several albums (folders) that I guess aren't in the artwork database, and I got tired of never seeing the album cover. Didn't want to embed the JPG in each MP3, so I tried using Folder.JPG, and it worked.

* If there is artwork embedded in the MP3, and there is also a Folder.JPG in that folder, it will display the embedded image. That actually makes sense, and I'm glad to see that order followed.
 
#29 ·
You're welcome. It was fun to do.

I'll also play with using my own cover art, to get artwork that I want, rather than what Gracenote wants me to see.
I want to try having a pic/JPG of my wife display on a song that I have ready to play when she rides with me. See if she notices and what she says. :bigpimp:
 
#30 ·
astrohip you rock! Thanks for posting your findings!

-Corey
 
#31 ·
Latest round of experiments...

Amazingly, Gracenote does use some fuzzy logic on matching the song to the cover. I tried it with Jimmy Buffet (s/b two "t"s) and it still worked. Tried it with Fruitcake (missing the "s") and it still worked. No idea how far it will go, but it clearly doesn't have to be perfect.

Then I started fiddling with embedded cover art. I used everything from 300x300 up to 900x900, with several in-between. They all worked. I didn't see any difference in display quality, so anything over 300x300 is probably a waste. I even tried an 1100x900, to see how it handled non-square images. It worked too, without any noticeable stretching.

I even took a pic of my wife and embedded it. Also worked as expected. This creates the ability to have some fun with cover art.:p

The only drawback to tweaking my own music is the inability to access Gracenote's db. When I come across MP3s that don't display a cover, if I could get to their db, I could figure out what I need to change. Without that access, I will have to embed JPGs to get cover art.
 
#33 ·
Did NOT know that. Are you sure? I had assumed that there was a cellular connection getting this artwork, but that was an uneducated WAG. I can certainly see how having it reside on the hard drive would make sense. Although the amount of data it would have to hold, to have that many songs, albums and artists would be immense, plus artwork images.

Updated? By the user, or BMW only?
 
#34 ·
You could always edit the details of the songs by going to the property if u have windows or in itunes, search the song on itunes copy the song details and manually put it on the song that dosent have any artwork after that, go to the option on iTunes to update artwork.

Works every time, the best part is, I don't have to pay a single penny for a song :)
I do this everytime I download a new song.
 
#40 ·
Just noticed something weird...

If you have split screen mode on, the artwork takes 7 seconds to appear. Always 7 seconds. It doesn't matter if the split screen has the media display on the left or right, or even on both, it takes 7 seconds.

However, if you have full-screen media display, it comes up instantly. Within 1/2 second.

Weird. :dunno:
 
#41 ·
Its probably running something to interpolate the image correctly.

Astro - Great work. This is good information, and I am totally borrowing your customer art idea. I see lots of applications, not just with the SO, but as a gag, etc.
 
#43 ·
Decided to play around and see what happens when various artworks exist, to see the priority. Yeah, full on OCD here... :bigpimp:

The order of display:
1) embedded artwork always displays if it exists
2) if not, it looks to see if the album is in the car's database of covers; if it is, that's 2nd.
3) if neither #1 or #2, it looks for Folder.JPG

I was curious whether #2 or #3 ranked higher; #2 wins.
 
#46 ·
2) if not, it looks to see if the album is in the car's database of covers; if it is, that's 2nd.
3) if neither #1 or #2, it looks for Folder.JPG

I was curious whether #2 or #3 ranked higher; #2 wins.
Hmm, this is not always accurate. At first, it clearly was doing this (#2 first). But now it is defaulting to using the Folder.JPG 100% of the time. It's almost like once it discovered it exists, it uses it. And this was clearly not how it first worked.
 
#45 ·
Hey Guys newb here... Just bought a 11 535i and when I plug my iphone in to the center console and play the ipod as an external, all I get is a text screen. How do I change it tro get the album art??? I played with it ad naseum last night and could not get anything but song list, album list to show on the screen.
 
#49 ·
I'm in the same situation- Iphone that displays the albums on all my songs but only shows text on the nav screen when plugged in to the dual USB/phone jack in the center console. Also have a USB drive in the glove box with a ton of MP3's and have never seen a single album cover on the screen.:dunno:
 
#50 ·
I'm experiencing a bit of a cover-art mystery... If I plug my iPhone 5 into the usb in the center armrest via the lightning cable, it shows cover art. Looks fine, no problems.

But I have bought an old iPod just for music storage (so I don't have to plug in the phone on every ride) and although it has exactly the same music files from the same iTunes application, it doesn't show cover art :-(

The iPod is connected via the combined usb-/aux in the center armrest...

Is there a good explanation for this... and perhaps a solution, so I can get cover-art also from the iPod...?
 
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