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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 12-23-2012, 02:45 PM
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johnstern johnstern is offline
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Thanks for your post 540iman. After Christmas and after I speak with people at Sea Foam, I'm going to try and blast some carbon out of the SAS passages with Sea Foam. I really don't believe that I have the carbon buildup problems that the E39 M5s have with the I6 in my Touring. Spending $8K is out of the question. A Sea Foam blast is my first step-I've already bought 2 can for $20.

We shall see and I shall report back.
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  #27  
Old 12-31-2012, 04:02 PM
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johnstern johnstern is offline
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I treated the Secondary Air System (SAS) port 4 times this afternoon. I even got a small brush into the port and around the 90 degree turn for some extra help in moving/removing and carbon buildup after the Sea Foam had been in the port for about 7 minutes. I drove the car at 3K rpm plus for several miles after each treatment until the smoking stopped. I used a whole 12oz. can of Sea Foam so about 1/4 can for each treatment as this port is very short and using more Sea Foam would have been overkill.

I unbolted the SAS valve from the port for these treatments and left it off during my spirited drives (high revs, low gear, low speed). This caused the exhaust to back up through the SAS port so with my blast of compressed air and the exhaust backing through the port(s), the hole(s) for the SAS got high speed air both ways.

I had planned to use my leak down tester to set a base line for air moving through the port so I could see if the Sea Foam treatments worked. Unfortunately I was unable to do this as the air flow before I started the treatments was so large that it would not register on the leak down gauges.

I plan to bolt the SAS valve back on the car tomorrow AM, reset the fault codes and let the car tell me if the treatments worked-no CEL means success. I will monitor the fault codes and let you know the results. It will probably take at least a week before I know for sure.

Happy New Year to all ! ! !
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  #28  
Old 01-27-2013, 01:51 PM
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johnstern johnstern is offline
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I am updating this thread. Treated the (for lack of a better name) the SAS tube in the head (yes Fudman, it's in the head & not in the exhaust manifold) with 4 applications of Seafoam:

1. Got the engine to operating temperature.

2. Removed the SAS valve and sprayed about 1/4 can Seafoam into the opening pushing the red capillary tube around the 90 degree bend in the SAS tube. The car was running at idle during the Seafoam injection process. Let the car sit for about 6-7 minutes. Stuck a soft brush on a flexible wand into the SAS tube and did a little scrubbing. Then blasted the tube with compressed air.

3. Started the car and went for a 4 mile drive keeping the revs at about 4K. Lots for smoke from the exhaust. Did not reinstall the SAS valve during test drives so I got exhaust pressure backing up through the tube, blasting the SAS holes out the other way from the compressed air.

4. After the 4th application, went for a 20 mile highway drive with revs 4-5K. Reinstalled the SAS valve.

BTW: Also sprayed Seafoam into the intake through a vacuum port following the instructions on the can. However, I did not raise the idle speed when spraying into the intake as I wanted max vacuum. Raised idle for a few minutes after initial application to spread Seafoam around. Then went for another spirited drive.

Results: The car is running VERY smooth. I have not had any CEL since the treatments performed about a month ago. I think I have solved my SAS problem but will report back in another month.

Last edited by johnstern; 01-27-2013 at 02:13 PM.
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  #29  
Old 02-27-2013, 10:35 AM
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johnstern johnstern is offline
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Another month has passed and still no CEL for SAS low or no flow, or for any other reason. I am finally satisfied that my Sea Foam carbon cleaning of the SAS duct in the cylinder head has worked. Sea Foam is definitely my friend!
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2013, 07:28 PM
JimLev JimLev is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnstern View Post
Another month has passed and still no CEL for SAS low or no flow, or for any other reason. I am finally satisfied that my Sea Foam carbon cleaning of the SAS duct in the cylinder head has worked. Sea Foam is definitely my friend!
Thanks for the update.
__________________

2000 540/6 Slightly tweeked...everywhere
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  #31  
Old 02-27-2013, 09:28 PM
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shaftdrive shaftdrive is offline
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Does the op have a picture for us of the final solution for the purge valve hose?
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  #32  
Old 02-28-2013, 08:23 AM
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johnstern johnstern is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaftdrive View Post
Does the op have a picture for us of the final solution for the purge valve hose?
Never had a problem with either of the valve hoses-vacuum or air pump. This was a problem with carbon buildup in the duct (in the cylinder head) from the valve to the exhaust manifold.
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  #33  
Old 12-01-2013, 09:08 PM
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DJ63 DJ63 is offline
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Several years ago, my engine developed the SAS "jet whine" very noticeably.
I've been running a Liqui-Moly 'engine flush' through it the past few months and this morning, halfway through the cold start SAS run, the engine gave a big cough, sputtered like it was gonna die, and suddenly the SAS pump sounded like a quiet "vacuum cleaner", like I understand it is supposed to do, but have never heard in 10 yrs. I don't know if the detergents are related to this development, any thoughts?
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  #34  
Old 12-02-2013, 05:50 AM
gmak2012 gmak2012 is offline
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Bump: Did you test fuel pressure in the fuel rail?

I'm running rich but my fuel pressure is at 50 psi at idle at 40 psi when the key is turned off. I suspected an FPR issue - but the pressure check says no (to my inexperienced brain, anyways). I'm wondering if you or anyone else can comment on this. I'm going to recheck vacuum hoses under the intake manifold (I replaced them with silicone about 2 months ago, along with a new CCV and cleaned the ICV, and put in a new intake manifold gasket etc...). I don't know if the car was running rich before that (didn't have the INPA set up yet) but I suspect that it was due to the smell from the exhaust when starting the car.

I've replaced the SAP and valve and the valve appears to be working (I can feel the vacuum pull through the larger nozzle and there is vaccum pull off of the small hose attached to the smaller nozzle). SAP hose blowing a storm.

Given the fuel pressure, I'm going to be replacing my O2 sensors (INPA says they're lazy) and the fuel injectdors (I believe that they're the original ones for the car and it's 15 years old with 110K miles).

I'd be interested in hearing if (beyond rechecking the CCV hoses) if there is something more I should do vis a vis the FPR (I have a '98 528i - so it's down under the driver's seat near the fuel filter).

Thanks for any help. Cheers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnstern View Post
I have been experiencing repeated Secondary Air Pump Valve failure on my supercharged 528iT (42200 miles).

About a year ago I got a CEL for insufficient flow for the SAS. I found that the SAS valve was stuck closed. Pump was very quiet while blowing a gale and the vacuum line was sucking about 18 inches of mercury but the valve would not open. At the time my wife's Touring (same year with amount 75K miles) was experiencing the same symptoms so I decided to replace both valves. My wife's valve has been working fine ever since but just short of 3 months later the valve on my car stuck closed again. I removed it and brought it back to Bavarian Autosport and they replaced it as defective.

This happened twice more and after getting a refund from Bav Auto, I bought another valve at the dealer. The dealer valve, a Pierburg like all the others, also failed in about the same amount of time so I thought it was the car and not the valve that was causing the problem. I removed the valve and found that if I applied vacuum and suddenly released that vacuum, the valve would get freed up and begin working again. I also found that if I blew hard into the valve output flange, it would seize shut and I'd have to do my quick vacuum release to free it up.

I then looked down the SAS port in the exhaust manifold and found it to be coated with a quite thick layer of carbon. I cleaned up the carbon with brake clean and several paper towels clipped or a flexible wand. Then the system worked for a few more months but eventually that valve froze shut and after inspecting the valve, I replaced it with another from Bav Auto. That happened on 12/05/12 and yesterday the CEL came back on-insufficient flow.

After I installed the supercharger I found that VF Engineering had made a mistake in their install instructions and removed the vacuum from the CCV and thus from the fuel pressure regulator. This made the car run very rich at idle (short term fuel trim as high as -27) like sitting in traffic, etc. It took me about 2+ months to figure this all out, attach the FPR vacuum hose to a vac port on the intake manifold, replace the FPR and the spark plugs. The car then ran great. My theory as to why the SAS valve keeps failing is that there is excessive carbon buildup in the exhaust manifold causing enough blow back to make the SAS valve seize after some time.

Do you think that my reasoning on the carbon buildup being my problem is accurate?

I would also like to know how do I remove the carbon from the exhaust manifold. I really don't want to remove the manifold if I don't have to. I thought that maybe I could squirt some Sea Foam into the hot exhaust manifold, leave it there for about 10 minutes and then run the engine to clear out the carbon. I would think I'd have to
do this 3 or 4 times to clean it well. What do you guys think. I also want to reinforce that my pump and solenoid vacuum valve have been working fine through all this and there are no vac hose leaks.

Sorry to be so long winded but I wanted to paint an accurate picture of what's going on.

Thanks.
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  #35  
Old 12-02-2013, 05:52 AM
gmak2012 gmak2012 is offline
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Maybe you somehow cleared out carbon build up

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ63 View Post
Several years ago, my engine developed the SAS "jet whine" very noticeably.
I've been running a Liqui-Moly 'engine flush' through it the past few months and this morning, halfway through the cold start SAS run, the engine gave a big cough, sputtered like it was gonna die, and suddenly the SAS pump sounded like a quiet "vacuum cleaner", like I understand it is supposed to do, but have never heard in 10 yrs. I don't know if the detergents are related to this development, any thoughts?
... if it even affects the non-M5 cars. Have you checked for carbon build up where the 'steam whistle'-looking valve attaches to the exhaust manifold?
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  #36  
Old 12-02-2013, 06:44 AM
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DJ63 DJ63 is offline
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No, I haven't. I mostly belong to the "Don't fix what ain't broke" school.
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  #37  
Old 12-02-2013, 06:50 AM
gmak2012 gmak2012 is offline
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Good school

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ63 View Post
No, I haven't. I mostly belong to the "Don't fix what ain't broke" school.
Unfortunately, I'm attending the "what's going to bite me next" school.
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