Cooling System

Originally Posted by cmpcpro

So it looks like we are in the exact same spot.. Driving I am between 101-105 and if I idle for too long (not long at all) it will go to 107.. It seems like when your tstat is around 105 and opening your lower hose temp of 69 is good.. then when the car gets hotter and goes up the lower hose goes down, as I am guessing it's not opening.. so if they designed the fan to go on by the lower hose then this system falls apart when whatever is causing this issue to happen happens..

Exactly, this is what I was trying to explain you all these pages
If lower hose temp is dropping when idling it means that tstat isn't working at all.
And now you believe me that wheep hole leak is not the only symptom of the leaking seal!!!
I should make a contract with aga pipe so I brought them much more clients!))

Originally Posted by SFbay

No, no need it should bleed itself,
Connect inpa and check lower hose temp after 20-30mins idling after driving.
If it stays at 65-70C it's all good.

I just went for a 30 mile drive on the freeway.. after driving for a few minutes non stop the car cools down to 101/102 and goes to 105, and back down, over and over.. does it the entire time, after a while it just stays at 101 the whole time.. when I get off the freeway, the 105 stays at 105 much longer, but will drop down to 103 eventually.. if I come to a stop for more than 45 seconds or so it will go to 106/107.. With the new cooling system when I start the car cold now it takes a good 15 minutes to get to normal temp.. runs around 98c or so for then.. slowly the system seems to be overpowered by heat.. the old system did the same, but much quicker.. I wish I had another good running car I could swap the fan on and see what happens..

Originally Posted by SFbay

Exactly, this is what I was trying to explain you all these pages
If lower hose temp is dropping when idling it means that tstat isn't working at all.
And now you believe me that wheep hole leak is not the only symptom of the leaking seal!!!
I should make a contract with aga pipe so I brought them much more clients!))

Well I haven't checked my INPA yet, I will though, I have the car in for the night cooling off to see how much air I got out today.. I will check it though tomorrow.. What stumps me is, on my car and all these others who are doing the same thing, how does this start happening after so long.. like the car slowly looses it's battle with heat.. how could the pipe work fine when the car is cooled down? Meaning, if I am running at 106/7 and I hit the freeway for a minute or two I am back down to 105 and tstat is opening on it's own 105/103/105/103, etc.. so how can the pipe do that? Just doesn't make sense to me, however I realize I am not an expert.. but that and the fact that when I bled the system the first time it worked perfectly until I cracked it open again changing aux pump..

Originally Posted by cmpcpro

I just went for a 30 mile drive on the freeway.. after driving for a few minutes non stop the car cools down to 101/102 and goes to 105, and back down, over and over.. does it the entire time, after a while it just stays at 101 the whole time.. when I get off the freeway, the 105 stays at 105 much longer, but will drop down to 103 eventually.. if I come to a stop for more than 45 seconds or so it will go to 106/107.. With the new cooling system when I start the car cold now it takes a good 15 minutes to get to normal temp.. runs around 98c or so for then.. slowly the system seems to be overpowered by heat.. the old system did the same, but much quicker.. I wish I had another good running car I could swap the fan on and see what happens..

Better start rain dancing)
You don't need to think about aux fan at all. Simply even without aux fan temp will never go higher than 105 if everything is ok with system.
Start removing intake and valley pan. If you're lucky you can fix the pipe without removing wp.
With URO pipe I was able to fully fix the problem but that pipe lasted for 3-4 months.
Your pipe is leaking into valley pan for now, later you'll get wheep hole leak and all other leaks. If you don't want to understand this theory simply do the pipe job just for maintenance reasons and you'll notice that problem will get fixed on its own.
It's simple:
Coolant pipe is the main coolant supply to the heads. Valley pan is a return to WP. Now imagine you have a leak from coolant pipe into valley pan. You got it??? Cooling system efficiency drops significantly, and more importantly it creates cavitation- your lovely bubbles
Yeah I was kinda cheap with URO, but they promised the best quality, and think about it AGA didn't have any parts history, but URO parts is kinda reputable company with history.

Originally Posted by SFbay

Better start rain dancing)
You don't need to think about aux fan at all. Simply even without aux fan temp will never go higher than 105 if everything is ok with system.
Start removing intake and valley pan. If you're lucky you can fix the pipe without removing wp.
With URO pipe I was able to fully fix the problem but that pipe lasted for 3-4 months.

If I do the coolant pipe it probably won't be for a couple weeks.. bills.. if I do it certainly won't be the URO pipe.. I would only go AGA.

Originally Posted by SFbay

Welcome to the club!!!!
It's bad. 30C is cold. You need aga ASAP.
Also your MAF is prob dirty bc it uses too much air, should be around 13-14 when idling.

Why is the temp not consistent? It is like 69 in one photo? Leaking coolant pipe? I have no leaking out of weep hole. Are you saying it is leaking inside the valley pan right now and is just not bad enough to leak out weep hole?

Originally Posted by wjjklj

Why is the temp not consistent? It is like 69 in one photo? Leaking coolant pipe? I have no leaking out of weep hole. Are you saying it is leaking inside the valley pan right now and is just not bad enough to leak out weep hole?

My take on the theory is it's leaking out of pipe into valley pan, but valley pan is sealed.. that loud noise I get when I start my car: SF says 200% it's my alt. and I will take his word on that, with 200%, but before I knew that my first thought was "Okay, if it is coolant pipe, maybe that noise is all the coolant being sucked back into the pipe from valley pan"

Originally Posted by cmpcpro

So it looks like we are in the exact same spot.. Driving I am between 101-105 and if I idle for too long (not long at all) it will go to 107.. It seems like when your tstat is around 105 and opening your lower hose temp of 69 is good.. then when the car gets hotter and goes up the lower hose goes down, as I am guessing it's not opening.. so if they designed the fan to go on by the lower hose then this system falls apart when whatever is causing this issue to happen happens..

EDIT: May I ask why you replaced your entire cooling system too? How did you bleed coolant? Are you losing any coolant? What is your level at now?

For the guy who asked what I have spent, I am right around 1 grand so far.. None of it seemed to be bad, but the new stuff def. runs cooler, and more flow.. so as soon as I figure out my issue I believe it will run great.. plus now I can sell my old cooling system and know it's fine.. Also, at one grand that is all wholesale prices.. Radiator is $400-something I paid $250 out the door, hoses were $175, I paid $78, and so on.. thermostat was $100 I paid $55.. so at retail I would have probably spent near two grand.

I replaced all hoses, and water pump because I have always heard that the coolant system is the weak point on all BMWs. The water pump normally fails around 100k plus had a plastic impeller. I was simply trying to do the right think and do preventative maintenance before it went bad. I noticed that the radiator had a few spots that looked like corrosion so I just replaced it while I had everything torn apart. I had always heard that the 02-03 models had more weep hole problems. This was probably just because they were older with more miles. Now that the 04-05 models are getting older I think we are seeing more of these problems.

Originally Posted by cmpcpro

My take on the theory is it's leaking out of pipe into valley pan, but valley pan is sealed.. that loud noise I get when I start my car: SF says 200% it's my alt. and I will take his word on that, with 200%, but before I knew that my first thought was "Okay, if it is coolant pipe, maybe that noise is all the coolant being sucked back into the pipe from valley pan"

I don't have any noises even though it looks like I have coolant leaking into my valley pan. I have a new alternator. I bet you need one. It was the first thing I thought when I heard your video clip.

Originally Posted by wjjklj

I don't have any noises even though it looks like I have coolant leaking into my valley pan. I have a new alternator. I bet you need one. It was the first think I thought when I heard your video clip.

Yeah this is the worst when you have internal leak and bmw dealer says everything is ok
And it's not a theory, I personally removed waterpump, sticked my finger and inspected the seal, it was missing a chunk of rubber on the bottom and small teardrops were coming from this hole even though I cleaned the pipe with towels so it was dry inside but coolant was coming only from that front seal, which means it was coming from valley pan but very slowly like one drop per 10 seconds smth, imagine when engine is hot and pressurized!

Originally Posted by wjjklj

I don't have any noises even though it looks like I have coolant leaking into my valley pan. I have a new alternator. I bet you need one. It was the first think I thought when I heard your video clip.

I just replaced mine lastnight.. I bought the Behr, which now has no drain plug like the Nissens. Sorry, I just noticed you said alt.. Yes, I guess I will be buying one.

Originally Posted by cmpcpro

I just replaced mine lastnight.. I bought the Behr, which now has no drain plug like the Nissens. Sorry, I just noticed you said alt.. Yes, I guess I will be buying one.

At least smbdy else thinks that air cannot create these metal sounds)
You're risking to screw your alt when driving like this, it might get your engine stuck in the middle of the road.

When everyone here fixes the internal pipe leak, you owe me a box of Heineken beer for all my research and experience))


Also if we buy 10-20 aga pipes we can get very nice discount!!!! I'm in

Originally Posted by SFbay

At least smbdy else thinks that air cannot create these metal sounds)
You're risking to screw your alt when driving like this, it might get your engine stuck in the middle of the road.

When everyone here fixes the internal pipe leak, you owe me a box of Heineken beer for all my research and experience))


Also if we buy 10-20 aga pipes we can get very nice discount!!!! I'm in

Whether I put it in now or later.. I would buy one right now if we can get a nice discount. I'm in. Also, in person it sounds more like a gurgling sound, not really metal.. who knows maybe I'm nuts.

Originally Posted by cmpcpro

Whether I put it in now or later.. I would buy one right now if we can get a nice discount. I'm in. Also, in person it sounds more like a gurgling sound, not really metal.. who knows maybe I'm nuts.

Ok, 2 pipes. May be let's create a thread so everybody with 7+ yrs old or 90+ miles needs new pipe to save engine and tranny and further money wasting.

I'm on the list I am going to get the AGA pipe. I will volunteer to contact them and see how many we have to purchase to get a discounted price. SFBay if you want to do this instead since you started the thread and live in the same state as AGA that would be fine to. I guarantee there are many others here that need to do this if they just check their temp in the hidden menu and then if high check bottom hose temp with INPA.

Originally Posted by wjjklj

I'm on the list I am going to get the AGA pipe. I will volunteer to contact them and see how many we have to purchase to get a discounted price. SFBay if you want to do this instead since you started the thread and live in the same state as AGA that would be fine to. I guarantee there are many others here that need to do this if they just check their temp in the hidden menu and then if high check bottom hose temp with INPA.

I think we need like 10 pipes to get a good discount. Also we need valley pans. Btw bimmer pipe claims a good pipe too, but I don't have many reviews.

I contacted Martin at AGA via email asking for a discount and how many member purchases we need to receive it. SFbay, you get all the credit here, I'm just trying to contribute. I'll keep everyone posted.

http://bimmerpipe.com/

Kinda looks nice and they claim that rolled piece if metal is the key to reduce electrolysis, aga pipe doesn't have it.

I also have that gurgling sound only happens after car has been driven for awhile then you only hear it when at idle eithet park or in drive not moving. I brought it to dealer for that sound couple times and they told me it was cylinder head cover on passanger side. Not sure if i believe that though.

I replaced my pipe and pump two months ago. I tested the temp while driving yesterday. I got 105 to 108 sitting at the light after a highway drive home from work about a 20 min drive. I was hitting the car pretty hard on the freeway in 3rd gear and about 4500 to 5000 rpm before shifting into 4th.

Car would cool at the higher speeds down to 98-103.

Originally Posted by sirstopher

I replaced my pipe and pump two months ago. I tested the temp while driving yesterday. I got 105 to 108 sitting at the light after a highway drive home from work about a 20 min drive. I was hitting the car pretty hard on the freeway in 3rd gear and about 4500 to 5000 rpm before shifting into 4th.

Car would cool at the higher speeds down to 98-103.

Matters what inpa shows for lower hose temp when idling for 10-20 mins after long drive.
What brand you installed??
Btw you installed it yourself???
Did you have problems installing the new seal??? For me it was a disaster, it didn't want to sit nicely no matter what I tried to clean that groove.

Originally Posted by SFbay

Matters what inpa shows for lower hose temp when idling for 10-20 mins after long drive.
What brand you installed??

After about a month of reading about the different pipes and some reviews both pipes are basically the same on the repair but about 300.00 savings on the bummer pipe vs the AGA pipe.

I went with the AGA pipe because it has a threaded connection vs the bimmer pipe just twisting in place. I felt that the bimmer pipe could come back apart. I did go with the BMW water pump as my Indy stated that the other pump was made in china and he had problems with them before.

Realistically you could get all parts needed for under 600.00 with the bimmer pipe and non OEM pump.

I will check INPA on the lower hose tomorrow If I get the chance.

Originally Posted by sirstopher

After about a month of reading about the different pipes and some reviews both pipes are basically the same on the repair but about 300.00 savings on the bummer pipe vs the AGA pipe.

I went with the AGA pipe because it has a threaded connection vs the bimmer pipe just twisting in place. I felt that the bimmer pipe could come back apart. I did go with the BMW water pump as my Indy stated that the other pump was made in china and he had problems with them before.

Realistically you could get all parts needed for under 600.00 with the bimmer pipe and non OEM pump.

I will check INPA on the lower hose tomorrow If I get the chance.

But if you have 108C you've got a problem.... Almost sure you lower hose is cold when idling.
Hmm smth is telling me that oem pipe is much better than any of these collapsible pipes, at least it lasts 60-70 mls. Why they say you need to remove heads?? It seems like only lower timing cover has to be removed.

Originally Posted by sirstopher

After about a month of reading about the different pipes and some reviews both pipes are basically the same on the repair but about 300.00 savings on the bummer pipe vs the AGA pipe.

I went with the AGA pipe because it has a threaded connection vs the bimmer pipe just twisting in place. I felt that the bimmer pipe could come back apart. I did go with the BMW water pump as my Indy stated that the other pump was made in china and he had problems with them before.

Realistically you could get all parts needed for under 600.00 with the bimmer pipe and non OEM pump.

I will check INPA on the lower hose tomorrow If I get the chance.

Yes, please check, because I remember you saying you were getting the same idle temps after doing the pipe.. By the way, I bought the good metal impeller water pump, it was made in Italy.. I looked at the Graf too, not sure where it was made, but it looked just as good, the passages were actually cleaner on the Graf, but the impeller looked like recycled mixed metal on the Graf, you know, all different colors and spots, or whatever, just looked cheap compared to the Soleri..

Anyway, I know you are idling at same temps and you just replaced your pipe which would rule the pipe out.. I am wondering this: Could replacing the pipe put the system back up to correct pressure and then blow rear seal that requires trans to be removed? I know removing the trans is supposed to be much easier than the coolant pipe job but not for me, as I would prefer working on the ground in my garage on my time..

This leaves us only a few other things to be causing this:

Head gaskets? Everyone I've asked so far on this has either laughed at me or said hell no, but it sounds very plausible to me.. tho I don't have bubbles or oil/coolant mixing..

Heater core? Probably the biggest pain in the arse job of all.. Again, no leaking of coolant, I do get a smell sometimes when turning on, but it's clearly a dusty smell..

Heater hoses? The only pipes with coolant going thru them that I haven't replaced are the two hoses going from the heater valve which the aux water pump goes into, and the third one which is the return pipe from core to engine..

Electric fan? This is a big one, I believe this to be the problem, but I am not certain.. if it was un-needed there wouldn't be a fan on every car ever made right? My cooling system seems to run great, but it slowly looses it's battle with heat when in stop and go.. always moving and the cooling system is always happy.

Heater valve? This may be completely unrelated but, when I turn my car off for a while, even after not using the heater for weeks before, and come back to it and start I will get heat from the vents for a couple minutes.. I was told this sometimes happens when battery is going bad, and mine was, but when I replaced with the brand new one and programmed every issue went away, but this remained.. Could these valves or a vacuum line somewhere be the cause of this? Could they be letting air in? I don't quite know how these things operate, obviously just electric valves, but I am wondering if they could be letting air in without letting coolant out..

Other than these reasons we are left with the engine.. Either seals in the engine, or generating too much heat, or something..

I need everyone's help to brainstorm! Please start thinking! Collect data! I have been collecting data since the day I realized this car was running hot, and it's a help. You can rule a lot of things out when you are making an informed decision.

Yes this is what I'm scared:
You fix one leak and you get another one!!!!
This is how it happened in my car:
Had lower radiator leak for months and all was good except loosing coolant. Once I replaced radiator 1-2 months later I got coolant pipe leak!!!
The pressure is fking high in this car:
Any weak spot will tell about itself
May be URO parts is not that bad and once it got fixed the rear plate started leaking;(
In other words you need to replace all cooling parts in the engine:
Coolant pipe seals
Rear cover plate
Valley pan

I think this is my plan:
Install 85C tstat or keep 95 one, but 95 is still kinda hot.
Replace coolant pipe
Since pressure won't be that high the other rear seals should sustain it.
Honestly bmw should recall that ****ty design!!!