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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #376  
Old 01-06-2013, 03:34 PM
SFbay SFbay is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpcpro View Post
So if I pressure test this system will that show if pipe is bad? Thx
Not necessary if the leak is internal.
No pressure loss
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  #377  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:02 PM
cmpcpro cmpcpro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFbay View Post
Not necessary if the leak is internal.
No pressure loss
See thats where I am having a hard time understanding this.. if that's the case how are we having air introduced if it's still a sealed system? And if pipe is leaking into valley pan but valley pan is holding wouldn't it just fill valley pan and then continue to flow in it's normal path?
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  #378  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpcpro View Post
See thats where I am having a hard time understanding this.. if that's the case how are we having air introduced if it's still a sealed system? And if pipe is leaking into valley pan but valley pan is holding wouldn't it just fill valley pan and then continue to flow in it's normal path?

Cmpro, try this:
If system works incorrectly, how would it bleed itself???
In other words you cannot bleed it if it leaks into valley pan.
Also read about cavitation
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  #379  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:00 PM
cmpcpro cmpcpro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFbay View Post
Cmpro, try this:
If system works incorrectly, how would it bleed itself???
In other words you cannot bleed it if it leaks into valley pan.
Also read about cavitation
But thats what I don't understand, the system is obviously bleeding.. I got a bunch of air out the first morning opening the cap, and I got a little air out this morning.. I believe you may very well be right about the pipe, but I really wish I could figure this out so we know for sure.. The only thing worse then being $1k in with same problem would be $2k.. and that one guy who posted same problems replaced his pipe and day and a half later same exact issues.. and Sristopher has just done the AGA pipe along with all new cooling system like me and is running at 108.. I don't understand what more to be looking for, but it seems like there obviously must be something we are over looking.. whether it be the head gaskets, or the cooling pipe, or even the heater core or a fan issue.. something is happening, but there are two people with new cooling pipes having same issue.. also, the vent pipe that goes over the radiator.. I have a super good stream now with new radiator. It was weak when I started, new hoses, etc. made it better, and new radiator made it even stronger.. it's very strong.. even with heater on now it's a stream.
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  #380  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpcpro View Post
But thats what I don't understand, the system is obviously bleeding.. I got a bunch of air out the first morning opening the cap, and I got a little air out this morning.. I believe you may very well be right about the pipe, but I really wish I could figure this out so we know for sure.. The only thing worse then being $1k in with same problem would be $2k.. and that one guy who posted same problems replaced his pipe and day and a half later same exact issues.. and Sristopher has just done the AGA pipe along with all new cooling system like me and is running at 108.. I don't understand what more to be looking for, but it seems like there obviously must be something we are over looking.. whether it be the head gaskets, or the cooling pipe, or even the heater core or a fan issue.. something is happening, but there are two people with new cooling pipes having same issue.. also, the vent pipe that goes over the radiator.. I have a super good stream now with new radiator. It was weak when I started, new hoses, etc. made it better, and new radiator made it even stronger.. it's very strong.. even with heater on now it's a stream.
Super good, huh?
Watch this video about bmws, it's gonna blow your mind

http://youtu.be/HEmgwn8vgr8

Not much left:
High pressure failure order:
1st in line is coolant pipe seal
2nd is rear plate
3rd heater core

Last edited by SFbay; 01-06-2013 at 07:42 PM.
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  #381  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:28 PM
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sirstopher sirstopher is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpcpro View Post
But thats what I don't understand, the system is obviously bleeding.. I got a bunch of air out the first morning opening the cap, and I got a little air out this morning.. I believe you may very well be right about the pipe, but I really wish I could figure this out so we know for sure.. The only thing worse then being $1k in with same problem would be $2k.. and that one guy who posted same problems replaced his pipe and day and a half later same exact issues.. and Sristopher has just done the AGA pipe along with all new cooling system like me and is running at 108.. I don't understand what more to be looking for, but it seems like there obviously must be something we are over looking.. whether it be the head gaskets, or the cooling pipe, or even the heater core or a fan issue.. something is happening, but there are two people with new cooling pipes having same issue.. also, the vent pipe that goes over the radiator.. I have a super good stream now with new radiator. It was weak when I started, new hoses, etc. made it better, and new radiator made it even stronger.. it's very strong.. even with heater on now it's a stream.
Dude, I found the problem.....it's a BMW!!!!!!!!!! Lol. Frustrated to say the least. I think I am going to trade it in.
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  #382  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:29 PM
cmpcpro cmpcpro is offline
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UPDATE:

Okay guys, I have this lower hose thing figured out.. I have been driving around with INPA on my lap.. Cruising around under light load, the hose is 30c or so.. if I start going up a hill, just giving it light gas, it will climb right up into 50s/60s.. I went up a steep hill at less than half throttle and the DME opened the tstat and brought car down to 96 and lower hose climbed to 84c.. driving down the hill hose dropped to 30c car stayed around 102.. driving in the neighborhoods on downhills it would stay at 30's.. if I start going up hill or give it some gas the lower hose will go right back up to 50's 60's.. then I noticed something.. I turned around on a hill and put it in park.. it climbed to 107 and the car idle would stumble every couple seconds, though I gave it some gas and it cleared up, but I noticed the lower hose would climb as the tstat was opening.. and because of that I realized that the tstat was opening, but still losing the battle.. the lower hose temp was climbing and temp was still at 105, 106, fan kicked on but was very low.. and whenever fan kicks on temps never lower.. Maybe someone else can use this data and come up with something, or explain the reasoning.. but I am wondering if light driving the car just runs on the small circuit and only uses the tstat when under load, or high heat..
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  #383  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:31 PM
cmpcpro cmpcpro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirstopher View Post
Dude, I found the problem.....it's a BMW!!!!!!!!!! Lol. Frustrated to say the least. I think I am going to trade it in.
Lol, I was thinking the same thing, but I would have to sell mine as I don't want anymore car payments and I've bought way too many new cars for a lifetime.. lost on all.. If I sell what will I buy? I love this car.. I am wondering if our fan is the issue.. also, the guy who just wrote that reply on the I think I found the BMW secret post about changing his cps from exhaust to intake and gaining a whole bunch of power (And he only did one side) could we all have this issue and timing is totally off and causing heat?
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  #384  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by cmpcpro View Post
Lol, I was thinking the same thing, but I would have to sell mine as I don't want anymore car payments and I've bought way too many new cars for a lifetime.. lost on all.. If I sell what will I buy? I love this car.. I am wondering if our fan is the issue.. also, the guy who just wrote that reply on the I think I found the BMW secret post about changing his cps from exhaust to intake and gaining a whole bunch of power (And he only did one side) could we all have this issue and timing is totally off and causing heat?
Instead of complaining, better fix it and keep the car for a few years.
The worst case you pay 300-400$ to replace that rear plate. The good thing is that it's not head gaskets.
Once All leaks fixed it'll get back to normal, but cooler tstat is a must not get this disaster again!
It doesn't make sense to take a loss after you spent so much already.

Last edited by SFbay; 01-06-2013 at 08:49 PM.
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  #385  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:38 PM
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I contacted Wahler Thermostat Headquarters to see if they have any ideas for a retrofit lower temp thermostat. I'll let you know what I hear.
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  #386  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:45 PM
Jbrown57 Jbrown57 is offline
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You guys have me curious.
Checked my 2004 tonite on the way home.
7C ambient, idle at light 99-100C 500 rpm
1750rpm driving 91-96C for half an hour drive.
Will try to check coolant discharge temp. Tomorrow .
Very interesting and enlightening thread.
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  #387  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:58 PM
cmpcpro cmpcpro is offline
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Hey SF: I really think my fan is dying.. the idle fluctuation I am seeing is something trying to be turned on, it's not a misfire but something kicking in, and off and on, and off.. etc.. I think my fan is shot.. if I disconnect the connector from the lower hose my fan will go on high right? How hard should it blow on high? Should it sound pretty loud? Or just turn normal..? Thanks!
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  #388  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpcpro View Post
Hey SF: I really think my fan is dying.. the idle fluctuation I am seeing is something trying to be turned on, it's not a misfire but something kicking in, and off and on, and off.. etc.. I think my fan is shot.. if I disconnect the connector from the lower hose my fan will go on high right? How hard should it blow on high? Should it sound pretty loud? Or just turn normal..? Thanks!
Ok, you replaced everything you think, now replace 500$ aux fan.
I mean I'm sorry but your lower hose temp is not related to the fan at all, and you still ask these questions???

Should spin on high, not that loud though. Nothing wrong with fan, fan won't do a thing if lower hose is cold, don't you think it's obvious???
You want real changes?? Remove tstat for now, at least it's not gonna hurt the engine
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  #389  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:18 PM
cmpcpro cmpcpro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFbay View Post
Ok, you replaced everything you think, now replace 500$ aux fan.
I mean I'm sorry but your lower hose temp is not related to the fan at all, and you still ask these questions???

Should spin on high, not that loud though. Nothing wrong with fan, fan won't do a thing if lower hose is cold, don't you think it's obvious???
You want real changes?? Remove tstat for now, at least it's not gonna hurt the engine
My lower hose is 69c 70c, etc.. and I still don't hear the fan kicking on.. it seems to start to kick in and then just goes back off, doesn't actually spin up.. When the temp went up to 107 and lower hose was still climbing in the 70's I would have figured the fan would have kicked in on high, yet I hear nothing.. sounds like something is clicking on, then off, then on, then off.. I may be wrong, but I don't have enough evidence to spend another $800 and rip open my engine. I need to figure this out, blindly replacing parts worked when it also took care of routine maintenance but for all I know the PO replaced my pipe.. when I look down the valley of the motor it looks brand new and shiny..
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  #390  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpcpro View Post
My lower hose is 69c 70c, etc.. and I still don't hear the fan kicking on.. it seems to start to kick in and then just goes back off, doesn't actually spin up.. When the temp went up to 107 and lower hose was still climbing in the 70's I would have figured the fan would have kicked in on high, yet I hear nothing.. sounds like something is clicking on, then off, then on, then off.. I may be wrong, but I don't have enough evidence to spend another $800 and rip open my engine. I need to figure this out, blindly replacing parts worked when it also took care of routine maintenance but for all I know the PO replaced my pipe.. when I look down the valley of the motor it looks brand new and shiny..
69-70 is good enough, but earlier you said 30C. Anyhow if pipe was replaced PO told you?? Then it's rear plate, try to lift a car and look if tranny bell housing has any coolant leaks.
You know fixing a cooling system is always considered the main most important routine maintenance btw, don't you think?? Even oil leak is not important

Ps. If a/c works good then aux fan is perfectly normal. In winter even without any fan your car shouldn't climb to 107C for any reason.

Last edited by SFbay; 01-06-2013 at 11:00 PM.
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  #391  
Old 01-06-2013, 11:11 PM
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B7M4W5 B7M4W5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpcpro View Post
My lower hose is 69c 70c, etc.. and I still don't hear the fan kicking on.. it seems to start to kick in and then just goes back off, doesn't actually spin up.. When the temp went up to 107 and lower hose was still climbing in the 70's I would have figured the fan would have kicked in on high, yet I hear nothing.. sounds like something is clicking on, then off, then on, then off.. I may be wrong, but I don't have enough evidence to spend another $800 and rip open my engine. I need to figure this out, blindly replacing parts worked when it also took care of routine maintenance but for all I know the PO replaced my pipe.. when I look down the valley of the motor it looks brand new and shiny..
Maybe be its the fan switch has gone bad test the connections on that sencer, just a thought.
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  #392  
Old 01-07-2013, 02:28 AM
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dolfan13 dolfan13 is offline
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I've noticed mine goes to 107 but after 1min 30sec goes down to105 and stays until another start stop..This thermostat is 105c right?Even advanced auto says its a 221f which is 105c.It won't be fully open until then.
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  #393  
Old 01-07-2013, 02:49 AM
cmpcpro cmpcpro is offline
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Originally Posted by SFbay View Post
69-70 is good enough, but earlier you said 30C. Anyhow if pipe was replaced PO told you?? Then it's rear plate, try to lift a car and look if tranny bell housing has any coolant leaks.
You know fixing a cooling system is always considered the main most important routine maintenance btw, don't you think?? Even oil leak is not important

Ps. If a/c works good then aux fan is perfectly normal. In winter even without any fan your car shouldn't climb to 107C for any reason.
I have no idea if PO replaced.. I got no real history.. but valley looks brand new.. lower hose will go to 30c if I am just barely giving it gas, or moving down hill, if I go up hill even slightly on throttle or level and giving it a small amount of gas, but accelerating slightly it will climb up in temp very quickly. Temp doesn't drop so I know DME isn't opening tstat, but hose climbs rapidly..
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  #394  
Old 01-07-2013, 03:14 AM
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Earlier SFbay you said try running without a tstat?How much different would that be than drilling a hole?
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  #395  
Old 01-07-2013, 05:56 AM
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745iguy 745iguy is offline
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Originally Posted by dolfan13 View Post
Earlier SFbay you said try running without a tstat?How much different would that be than drilling a hole?
Difference is tstat wont open bc theres a hole in it pissing by and if you have this problem it wont fix it.
Removing tstat engine will remain cool n worse case scenario will be you burn your fan out if it reaches hot enough to kick the fan on idk how durable the fans are to be on almost always at idle...
Either way it wont fix your problem. Fix the leak and get a lower temp tstat is the solution. Even a lower temperature means the coolant doesn't expand as much and the pressure in the system will be reduced by going down 10 or 20 degrees for 95 and 85 degrees respectively. That is the whole theme of this thread so far
I am waiting for our friend sf to feel better so he can finish his testing of these tstats and i can get on this myself... While my system is leak free
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  #396  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:42 AM
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Difference is tstat wont open bc theres a hole in it pissing by and if you have this problem it wont fix it.
Removing tstat engine will remain cool n worse case scenario will be you burn your fan out if it reaches hot enough to kick the fan on idk how durable the fans are to be on almost always at idle...
Either way it wont fix your problem. Fix the leak and get a lower temp tstat is the solution. Even a lower temperature means the coolant doesn't expand as much and the pressure in the system will be reduced by going down 10 or 20 degrees for 95 and 85 degrees respectively. That is the whole theme of this thread so far
I am waiting for our friend sf to feel better so he can finish his testing of these tstats and i can get on this myself... While my system is leak free
Correct!!!
Even if you remove coolant pipe, but install some plug instead of front seal the system will be leak free, right?
So it explains my theory kinda
and pressure tester will show nothing.

Btw if all leaks fixed and gaskets are new even with oem tstat it's gonna last for some yrs.

Last edited by SFbay; 01-07-2013 at 08:43 AM.
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  #397  
Old 01-07-2013, 08:57 AM
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745iguy 745iguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFbay View Post
Correct!!!
Even if you remove coolant pipe, but install some plug instead of front seal the system will be leak free, right?
So it explains my theory kinda
and pressure tester will show nothing.

Btw if all leaks fixed and gaskets are new even with oem tstat it's gonna last for some yrs.
Some years is the problem. I admit for a car like this that based on production date about 10 years and 6 months old what i have changed in the cooling system isnt that bad which i am assuming that it was all original parts, guessing on the rest it probably was. But if i intend to keep the car til it suffers catastrophic failure that i wouldnt consider repairing id like them few years to be multiplied and im a believer in this theory and the benefits of lowering the temp. Although i guess belief is based on faith and not fact, and fact is more of the case here.
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Last edited by 745iguy; 01-07-2013 at 08:59 AM.
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  #398  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:19 AM
cmpcpro cmpcpro is offline
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Any ideas guys on where I can get a good rebuilt alt? BMA wants $700.. I laughed.. I hear people spending $200-something on rebuilds, and one guy got a new one at the dealer for $400-something.. Thanks!
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  #399  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:41 AM
SFbay SFbay is offline
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Fact is:
Higher temp- higher pressure
Higher pressure- issues with seals and gaskets.
Believe it or not, but it's simply physics.
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  #400  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:01 AM
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745iguy 745iguy is offline
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Im not disagreeing with you sf im saying i cannot just believe it because its been proven, i am aware of what happens to fluids as they heat and cool down i have a second class firemen's license in the state of MA (boiler operation license)
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