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BMW Coding and Programming
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  #1  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:34 PM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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FA Changes required for NBT Retrofit

Hi Guys,

I wondered if anyone had a chassis no. or FA so I could note the changes required for the NBT retrofit?
I presume it would require the addition of 6NL & the removal of 633, 6FL, 6NF, 6VA & 6VC.
609 & 6NR would remain & the build date be changed to 09/12
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2012, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrussell View Post
Hi Guys,

I wondered if anyone had a chassis no. or FA so I could note the changes required for the NBT retrofit?
I presume it would require the addition of 6NL & the removal of 633, 6FL, 6NF, 6VA & 6VC.
609 & 6NR would remain & the build date be changed to 09/12
633 (or 639 in the U.S./CND), 6FL, and 6VC are gone, apparently all replaced by 6NL by itself.

6VA is a weird one though. My understanding is that with factory CIC, it is normally not required in the VO, and is used only in instances where CIC is replaced or retrofitted to force recognition of the Head Unit for coding. So, this would normally not be in either CIC or NBT VO's, but if you retrofit NBT it may be required.

609 and 6NR remain, but so does 6NF as that is not standard equipment on NBT equipped cars.

I will PM you a VIN for a U.S. equipped 2013 535i with NBT.
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:32 AM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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Cheers Shawn,

It is a strange one with 6VA as my 06/12 build has 609 from factory but also has 6VA in the FA.
From looking into ETK it seems the 6VA option maybe used during crossover build dates just like 6VB was used in the e60 between 09/08 & 11/08 when UK cars had the new ZBE but retained the CCC until 11/08.

Weird thing is when I adapted my FA & changed the date to 07/12 esys still showed HU_CIC & CMB_MEDIA instead f replacing them with HU_NBT!
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  #4  
Old 12-26-2012, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrussell View Post
Cheers Shawn,

It is a strange one with 6VA as my 06/12 build has 609 from factory but also has 6VA in the FA.
From looking into ETK it seems the 6VA option maybe used during crossover build dates just like 6VB was used in the e60 between 09/08 & 11/08 when UK cars had the new ZBE but retained the CCC until 11/08.

Weird thing is when I adapted my FA & changed the date to 07/12 esys still showed HU_CIC & CMB_MEDIA instead f replacing them with HU_NBT!
Yes, as I wrote, 6VA is a weird one. It is not in my 10/10 build F10, so I don't know.

In E-Sys, you are changing Zeitkriterium=0712 and not the Datum field I take it.

Now, I do not think FA in E-Sys is Dynamic at all, in that changing your production date and an Option Code that it will automatically remove unnecessary Option Codes or add other Dependant Option Codes. What I would expect though is that when you try and calculate FP with an incompatible Option Code, FP will error out.

When you say E-Sys still showed CIC, I assume that since the VO does not specify actual ECU's, your are referring to your SVT. This I would expect as the SVT is reading your actual ECU's on the MOST Bus, and for that you have CIC still, correct? If a new Head Unit was connected, only then would I expect to see NBT in your SVT. I would also expect that if you tried to VO Code HU_CIC with a VO Prodcution date of 07/12 that it would error out as that should not be a compatible ECU for that Prodcution Date.
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
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  #5  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:02 AM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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Yes, it is the time criteria date I changed, you would hope the esys was dynamic so it knows which ecus should be installed based on VO & Build date as this was a basic part of NCSEXPERT.
I am using an FA.xml file I saved when I connected to the car & trying to edit it away from the car, you would think when you calculate the FP that would be when esys compares the data & lists the correct ecu's

I have pm'd you my FA
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  #6  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrussell View Post
Yes, it is the time criteria date I changed, you would hope the esys was dynamic so it knows which ecus should be installed based on VO & Build date as this was a basic part of NCSEXPERT.
I am using an FA.xml file I saved when I connected to the car & trying to edit it away from the car, you would think when you calculate the FP that would be when esys compares the data & lists the correct ecu's

I have pm'd you my FA
Yes, I think when you calculate FP, it will give you an error if the options and or date have some sort of incompatibility, but it won't automatically reconfigure your FA for you.

If you are not connected to your car, then what do you mean it still shows HU_CIC? FA will only show 609 Navigation, but it won't show the actual ECU.
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
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  #7  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:33 AM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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Sorry, I was reading my stored SVT which will obviously show the ECU's it has read from the VCM.
So unlike NCS where it lists the correct ecu's based on build date & options you list in the FA, in esys do you have to manually add them via SVT-Editor if you cannot read them from the car I wonder?
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  #8  
Old 12-26-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrussell View Post
Sorry, I was reading my stored SVT which will obviously show the ECU's it has read from the VCM.
So unlike NCS where it lists the correct ecu's based on build date & options you list in the FA, in esys do you have to manually add them via SVT-Editor if you cannot read them from the car I wonder?
I have never used NCS Expert, so I do not know what it shows.

In E-Sys, when you read VCM, it will poll the busses, and show the actual ECU's on the car. If you were to remove HU_CIC and connect HU_NBT, and re-read VCM, you would then see NBT in place of CIC, and it would likely show no CAFD until you add one and code the module.

While it may be possible with E-Sys, I do not know of any way to change the VO Option Codes and / or Date, and have it show required ECU's to support that VO.
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
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  #9  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:03 AM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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As soon as the NBT arrives I will connect it & then read the VCM, I'm just looking for the new cables to run from the USB & cradle to get upto the NBT & prepping a cable to extend all the combox pins upto the NBT (mic, SOS etc)
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  #10  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:05 AM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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Thinking about it, I wonder if there are any coding options to allow the use of Combox with NBT ?
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  #11  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrussell View Post
As soon as the NBT arrives I will connect it & then read the VCM, I'm just looking for the new cables to run from the USB & cradle to get upto the NBT & prepping a cable to extend all the combox pins upto the NBT (mic, SOS etc)
Now I am confused. The connections on the back of NBT are the same as CIC, although with some additional ones added. If you swap NBT for CIC, why do you need different cables from 6NF to NBT?
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
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  #12  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrussell View Post
Thinking about it, I wonder if there are any coding options to allow the use of Combox with NBT ?
On F30 cars with 6NL and no NBT, it seems 6VC is no longer a separate option on the VO; however, those cars physically still have a Combox unit.

With NBT, I think the Combox unit is physically built into the NBT Head Unit, so you will have a Combox no matter what with NBT.
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
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  #13  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:27 AM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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Yes, with the combox being built into the NBT, the USB cables & aux audio & video wires which are currently running to the combox in the trunk will now connect at the NBT, also the mic wires & data links to the ACSM for SOS will also need to go up to the NBT.
If you look at the attached pic you will see there are now 5 HSD ports (USB Port, 6NF Cradle, CID, USB in Glovebox, Ethernet) & an extra fakra for the Bluetooth antenna.
I am waiting on my ISTA 2.48 HDD so I can check the diagrams to confirm.

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  #14  
Old 12-26-2012, 10:30 AM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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Thats what I think that extra plug is above the main plug
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  #15  
Old 12-26-2012, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrussell View Post
Yes, with the combox being built into the NBT, the USB cables & aux audio & video wires which are currently running to the combox in the trunk will now connect at the NBT, also the mic wires & data links to the ACSM for SOS will also need to go up to the NBT.
If you look at the attached pic you will see there are now 5 HSD ports (USB Port, 6NF Cradle, CID, USB in Glovebox, Ethernet) & an extra fakra for the Bluetooth antenna.
I am waiting on my ISTA 2.48 HDD so I can check the diagrams to confirm.

Yes, the NBT Connections are this:

HSD Connections:

Purple = APIX Connector for CID
Light Green = USB3 for Telematics Control Box (TCB)
Curry = USB2 for 6NF Base Plate
Beige = USB1 for 6FL Aux-In USB
Orange = Ethernet for RSE

* NBT has no Glovebox USB data port. The USB Port in the Center Armrest now does data too.

FAKRA Connections:

Beige = Bluetooth Arial
Burgandy = WLAN Arial
Curry = DAB Band 3
Green = DAB Band L
White = FM2
Black = AM / FM1
Blue = GPS Arial
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips

Last edited by shawnsheridan; 12-26-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mcrussell View Post
Thats what I think that extra plug is above the main plug
The extra plug above the main plug are FBAS 3 and FBAS 4 inputs for extra Video.

Right below that at the top of the main connector are inputs for Speakers and Telephone Mute.

Then below that on the main connector are inputs for Microphone 1, Microphone 2, Aux In, FBAS 1, and FBAS 2.
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips

Last edited by shawnsheridan; 12-26-2012 at 11:24 AM.
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  #17  
Old 12-26-2012, 11:26 AM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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Thanks bud, do you have the pinouts for the small plug at the top?
If the telematic functions are now carried out by a TCB module then the cabling from the existing Combox telematics will have to be routed to the TCB.
Also I will need to find out where the mic wires run to!

I wonder if BIMMER-TECH or BIMMERRETROFIT are designing an emulator to allow the use of original Combox with NBT rather than having to re-cable everything & buy a TCB as well?
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2012, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mcrussell View Post
Thanks bud, do you have the pinouts for the small plug at the top?
If the telematic functions are now carried out by a TCB module then the cabling from the existing Combox telematics will have to be routed to the TCB.
Also I will need to find out where the mic wires run to!

I wonder if BIMMER-TECH or BIMMERRETROFIT are designing an emulator to allow the use of original Combox with NBT rather than having to re-cable everything & buy a TCB as well?
I'm sorry, but I don't have any of the actual schematics or a pinout list. I think in most cases, the Top Connection wont be used, unless maybe you have all the Cameras, (Rear / Top & Side, and Night Vision), plus 6NF/6NR and DVD.

I don't know what the Pro Retrofitters will do with regard to an existing Combox. If they made use of it, I don't think it would be an emulator, rather just some plug and play harness, but this would require disabling the built-in NBT Combox, which I doubt is possible.

I know they are offering an Emulator, same as they do for CIC retrofits, for Navigation and Voice Recognition, but still I assume with the emulator you have to buy all new FSC Codes for other functions such as BMW Apps, Sat Radio, Night Vision, Speed Limit Information, etc.
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips

Last edited by shawnsheridan; 12-26-2012 at 11:42 AM.
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  #19  
Old 12-26-2012, 12:07 PM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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What they did with the e70 was to build a unit that converted the messages from the pdc & camera modules (these where changed when CIC was introduced) to what the CIC expected to see, otherwise it would require a new RFK & JBE.
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  #20  
Old 12-26-2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mcrussell View Post
What they did with the e70 was to build a unit that converted the messages from the pdc & camera modules (these where changed when CIC was introduced) to what the CIC expected to see, otherwise it would require a new RFK & JBE.
Interesting. I had not heard of that.
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
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  #21  
Old 12-26-2012, 12:16 PM
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So have you already ordered an NBT unit?

What are your plans for all your FSC Codes?
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
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  #22  
Old 12-26-2012, 12:37 PM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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Yes, my brother works at Mini so he gets a good discount!
I have asked my local dealers for all my fsc codes for the Nav, voice & SLI
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  #23  
Old 12-26-2012, 12:44 PM
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Yes, my brother works at Mini so he gets a good discount!
I have asked my local dealers for all my fsc codes for the Nav, voice & SLI
You don't also have BMW Apps?

So, if you don't mind me asking, how much will the NBT unit cost, and what is the cost of the FSC codes?
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- 2011 535i M-Sport (Born 10/10) - AW/BLK/DW - /ZMP (w/ARS, EDC, DHP, & AD) /ZPP /ZP2 (w/ZPS & ZPT) /ZCV (w/SCAD) /6FL /6VC
- Mods - M5 343M 20" Forged Wheels / 6WB MFID / 2TB SAT / 4U1 Ceramic / 6NR Apps / PDV 5k Fogs / Rear Fogs / Euro Tail Lights / Cyba Quad Tips
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  #24  
Old 12-26-2012, 12:56 PM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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Apps I will be paying for at the dealers as I get an update to 2.48 as part & parcel!!
The FSC's will have to be downloaded as part of loading the apps fsc so I'll get the tech to put them on a USB for me!
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  #25  
Old 12-26-2012, 01:06 PM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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I think the NBT was around 700
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