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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 3 Series / 4 Series > E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)

E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #51  
Old 12-28-2012, 01:28 AM
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Db750 Db750 is online now
David
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
I'm not sure where you got this information but a 328xi does not have 300 HP, it has the 230 HP normally aspirated N52 engine. I'm not sure what you mean by "upgradeable", but you'd be hard pressed to get any more horsepower out of this engine.

In contrast, the 335xi has the 300 HP twin-turbo N54 engine, which is highly tunable and capable of producing much more horsepower with readily available "tunes" or ECU software modifications.

If you want to "feel the power", then you're talking a 335xi, not a 328xi.

And to echo the excellent advice already given above, you should not consider buying a used BMW, or any used car, without first seeing it, driving it, and having it inspected by an independent mechanic who can perform a Pre-Purchase Inspection, or PPI.

My impression is that you're not very knowledgeable about BMWs and that you need to do a lot more homework before you're ready to purchase one, at least if you want to be an informed consumer.
Tom,

I believe the OP may have mistakenly written 328 as opposed to 35. Your advice is otherwise spot on. A PPi is invaluable; as is the knowledge of ones car.

A bit off topic, but your signature is awesome. Your M couldn't look any better in that first picture, and your 335is is stunning.
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  #52  
Old 12-28-2012, 05:41 AM
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chris328 chris328 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Solution: Travel a high road. Do not cave to boy racer challenges - it is eloquent, and it is sophisticated, to decline with grace and cheer. That often leaves them so bamboozled that they do not remember clearly what happened.
thankfully you dont see them much around here. i see those scrubby kids a lot more in central/western mass. although I must admit Ive never had someone "challenge" me lol. i always hear about it, but i never see it. maybe i just dont live the fast & furious life
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  #53  
Old 12-28-2012, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by chris328 View Post
thankfully you dont see them much around here. i see those scrubby kids a lot more in central/western mass. although I must admit Ive never had someone "challenge" me lol. i always hear about it, but i never see it. maybe i just dont live the fast & furious life

Aha! Traffic's thick in Boston; racing season short.

Year 'round adventurous motoring.....LA & surrounds where ya wanna to be.
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  #54  
Old 12-28-2012, 06:01 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
Opening up a whole 'nother bag of worms, I still maintain after having driven both, that an AT 328xi is a very different animal than a 328i MT. If I owned an AT 328 it would spend its entire life in DS mode. In full auto mode, if one is accustomed to an MT, the AT is frightfully sluggish. This is not just my tainted perspective, but a fairly objective viewpoint coming from my non-enthusiast husband. Please bear in mind, I love my MT 328i. Not one to street race, it is more than adequate at getting itself up and going and 65-90 mph can happen so effortlessly it's sometimes a little scary. That being said, at the low end, if a Honda Odyssey is gunning for you, and you aren't poised to play, they will probably win. Manipulating the power band in the MT seems, at least to me, much easier. In my experience, even in DS mode, the 328 AT had to hunt and often chose economy over power.

Bottom line, if I were limited to an AT, I would probably opt for the 335 over the 328. If I had the MT as a variable the choice becomes a little fuzzier. As an everyday driver with plenty of power the MT 328i is very acceptable.
Nice perspective Kat. I drive a MT 328 E90 which is probably the fastest 328 we can get. I've driven AT loaners and they are sluggish off of the line. XDrive would of course be even worse.
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  #55  
Old 12-28-2012, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD Z4MR View Post
If you want to "feel the power", then you're talking a 335xi, not a 328xi.

Do not turn that wheel!

If you do, the N54/55 power advantage is an issue leading to wheel hop and dissatisfying behavior. The 335i is inferior to 328i when pressed and identical when not, unless travel is 'straight line.'

Good Lord. I was rooked, and full-on suspension replacement was required to move my ride out of, and above, competition from my naturally aspirated brethren. Many a 335i owner has discovered this sorrowful fact, though few have gone the distance.....
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  #56  
Old 12-28-2012, 07:48 AM
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Kilgore Trout Kilgore Trout is offline
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My experience on this forum is that most of the drivers here are pretty smart car people, and they've all weighed the pluses and minuses and made the purchase that most closely meets their needs/desires/comfort. So, the fact that the MT owners think a AT is sluggish, or the 335i owners think the 328i is relatively slow, or the 328i owners cringe an the HPFP problems is not surprising to me.

My personal opinion, as somebody who has mostly had Honda/Acura sedans as daily drivers, also frequently drove a E46, and has a ridiculously powerful M-B S550 as a second car (don't ask how this happened), is that all iterations of the E9x, including the heaviest AWD AT wagon are plenty powerful for everyday use. I don't think any of the vehicles are the least bit "sluggish" and feel that all are quite lively and a lot of fun. But, again, that is my take and I really think that all the other opinions on this issue are equally valid.

All that said, if you are a HP/Torque nut (which, btw, I totally respect) I do not think the N52 is going to be satisfying. My feeling with the 328i is that it is blast to drive and has more than enough acceleration for my needs (can't say I ever wanted more) but it is NOT a truly fast car and it is does not pin your butt in the seat like an 335i.

Also, although the AT in both the 335i and 328i is smooth and decent for everyday use, there is nothing more fun than a MT. And, IMO, the 3-series just feels happiest when you shift on your own.

I have a 328i with an AT, love it to death, and think that config is a great option for most owners.

Nothing but good options here.
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Last edited by Kilgore Trout; 12-28-2012 at 07:55 AM.
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  #57  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:03 AM
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SD Z4MR SD Z4MR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Db750 View Post
Tom,

I believe the OP may have mistakenly written 328 as opposed to 35. Your advice is otherwise spot on. A PPi is invaluable; as is the knowledge of ones car.

A bit off topic, but your signature is awesome. Your M couldn't look any better in that first picture, and your 335is is stunning.
That would make more sense!

Off topic, but thanks! My wife and I are enjoying them both very much!
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  #58  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:23 AM
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Get the 328, the millage spread between the two is pretty big. After 18 months of DD I only have 16K miles on mine. It would take me about 3 years to rack up 35K miles on mine.
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  #59  
Old 12-28-2012, 08:55 AM
frostz frostz is offline
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@SD Z4MR Yeah, my bad, I meant the 335. I was just at work and I was typing away fast before I had to go home but I do realize it's the 335 that has 300hp not the 328.
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  #60  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:30 AM
Squidget Squidget is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Do not turn that wheel!

If you do, the N54/55 power advantage is an issue leading to wheel hop and dissatisfying behavior. The 335i is inferior to 328i when pressed and identical when not, unless travel is 'straight line.'

Good Lord. I was rooked, and full-on suspension replacement was required to move my ride out of, and above, competition from my naturally aspirated brethren. Many a 335i owner has discovered this sorrowful fact, though few have gone the distance.....
My turn to be the community translator for Cal.

He is being half-serious, as usual. No car has a "power advantage" in sharp turns. It's a little thing racers sometimes call the traction circle. In tight corners you are limited by tires and suspension, not engine.

Cal is correct on two things. First the superior power of the 335 CAN cause more problems, IF you drive like an idiot. That is, it gives you more rope to hang yourself. But that's a driver problem, not a car problem. Secondly, if you really want to maximize the 3 series "fun" potential, look at upgrading the suspension and tires, rather than a bigger engine. A modded 328 can be a lot of fun in the twisties!
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Last edited by Squidget; 12-28-2012 at 01:30 PM.
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  #61  
Old 12-28-2012, 11:36 AM
avocet avocet is offline
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So you speed up when someone in an SUV tries to pass you???




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Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
Well you my friend are lucky... I can't make it 3 days. We have a straight away light thats about .5 miles long and a RX350 cut across 3 lanes of traffic to get into the empty merge line and try and pass me today which makes me grin every time. I embarrassed him 3 lights in a row

OP needs to drive both then weigh how much he can stomach when the 335i eventually throws a problem and if the amount of power+upgrade capabilities are worth that trouble. If you've got no stomach for it and are impressed by the 328i more power to you, and you've saved more money than those that require more power to feel satisfied. If we're both going to Starbucks and you spent 40k and me 50k who really won
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  #62  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:17 PM
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cwinter cwinter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic_Kat View Post
Opening up a whole 'nother bag of worms, I still maintain after having driven both, that an AT 328xi is a very different animal than a 328i MT. If I owned an AT 328 it would spend its entire life in DS mode. In full auto mode, if one is accustomed to an MT, the AT is frightfully sluggish. This is not just my tainted perspective, but a fairly objective viewpoint coming from my non-enthusiast husband. Please bear in mind, I love my MT 328i. Not one to street race, it is more than adequate at getting itself up and going and 65-90 mph can happen so effortlessly it's sometimes a little scary. That being said, at the low end, if a Honda Odyssey is gunning for you, and you aren't poised to play, they will probably win. Manipulating the power band in the MT seems, at least to me, much easier. In my experience, even in DS mode, the 328 AT had to hunt and often chose economy over power.

Bottom line, if I were limited to an AT, I would probably opt for the 335 over the 328. If I had the MT as a variable the choice becomes a little fuzzier. As an everyday driver with plenty of power the MT 328i is very acceptable.
Amen!
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You will rue this day, RUE THIS DAY
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  #63  
Old 12-28-2012, 12:59 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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So you speed up when someone in an SUV tries to pass you???
Yep I like too embarrass people who think they're the best it'll only get worse when I get my f10 m5/m6 at or before graduating.
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  #64  
Old 12-28-2012, 01:17 PM
avocet avocet is offline
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Yep I like too embarrass people who think they're the best it'll only get worse when I get my f10 m5/m6 at or before graduating.
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  #65  
Old 12-28-2012, 01:19 PM
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reytran reytran is offline
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Yep I like too embarrass people who think they're the best it'll only get worse when I get my f10 m5/m6 at or before graduating.
Until you meet a douche wreckless on a $500 pick up truck.
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  #66  
Old 12-28-2012, 01:27 PM
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cwinter cwinter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperTerp View Post
Yep I like too embarrass people who think they're the best it'll only get worse when I get my f10 m5/m6 at or before graduating.
Ah, all going slower than me are idiots, all going faster are maniacs.

Looks like you have much to learn before graduation. Good luck!
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You will rue this day, RUE THIS DAY

Last edited by cwinter; 12-28-2012 at 01:31 PM.
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  #67  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:22 PM
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bear-avhistory bear-avhistory is offline
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Yep I like too embarrass people who think they're the best it'll only get worse when I get my f10 m5/m6 at or before graduating.
I hope your talking about graduating high school otherwise you might want consider getting a shrink as a better idea.
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  #68  
Old 12-28-2012, 02:28 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
I hope your talking about graduating high school otherwise you might want consider getting a shrink as a better idea.
Says the guy who wrote this
"BTW don't confuse my lack of getting all whacked out over someone running the shoulder with a lack of competitiveness. You don't survive 25 years on the street being docile."



Quote:
Originally Posted by cwinter View Post
Ah, all going slower than me are idiots, all going faster are maniacs.

Looks like you have much to learn before graduation. Good luck!
Not really. Pretty sure theres a reason I get almost 30mpgs in a 335i and its probably because I go the speed limit 99.9% of the time. But nice try.

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Originally Posted by reytran View Post
Until you meet a douche wreckless on a $500 pick up truck.
lol and if he smashed into me big deal, I'd get the car fixed, sue him and that would be that. He should just be sure he can afford the insurance hikes, and lawsuit because I know I can afford to get a car fixed or buy a new one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avocet View Post
.
You should have started with that post


And moving away from the perfect angel drivers and back to the OP's actual topic:
Quote:
Originally Posted by frostz View Post
I know it's not a very good idea to buy a car I can't test drive/inspect but I am very very limited in choice if I strictly choose a BMW in my area and the costs are substantially higher (ie. $40,000 for an 09 328i sedan with 40,000 miles on it from a dealer. Everything will typically be like this near me). I would try to find a mechanic in the area that the BMW is being sold in and ask the dealer to take it in for an inspection after speaking with the mechanic. The seller also has a really good ebay rating which I realize isn't necessarily an indicator that the car will be trouble-free. I know it's a a potentially bad decision but I have very little options.
You need to do PPI
Ask a local BMW dealer to run the vin# and show you the INTERNAL SERVICE HISTORY (this will tell you all work thats been done to the car at authorized bmw dealers).

Finally ask your self SERIOUSLY how much of a repair you could stomach. If its 6k or less 335i is a good choice (although 35k more miles doesn't seem worth it even to me). If your buying online and the cars listed on ebay they sell a service where someone will go out test drive and send you a report back[*http://www.inspectmyride.com/ is the company affiliated with them], I believe another member had a good result with that and found damage to the underbody you'd never have caught online.

Things you'd want to do right off the bat with that 335i:
Walnut blast valves $500-800
Drive belts (should be replaced at 60k) couple $100
Spark Plugs (should have been done at 45k)

Last edited by SuperTerp; 12-28-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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  #69  
Old 12-28-2012, 06:40 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
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my turn to be the community translator for cal.

He is being half-serious, as usual. No car has a "power advantage" in sharp turns. It's a little thing racers sometimes call the traction circle. In tight corners you are limited by tires and suspension, not engine.

Cal is correct on two things. First the superior power of the 335 can cause more problems, if you drive like an idiot. That is, it gives you more rope to hang yourself. But that's a driver problem, not a car problem. Secondly, if you really want to maximize the 3 series "fun" potential, look at upgrading the suspension and tires, rather than a bigger engine. A modded 328 can be a lot of fun in the twisties!

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  #70  
Old 12-29-2012, 09:34 AM
mynycbimmer mynycbimmer is offline
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Gee, reading some of these posts you'd think the 335 was made by Ferrari. Reality check, it's a 3 SERIES BMW!

On paper, a 335i is obviously a lot faster. Similarly, a 328 MT is faster than an AT. However, we don't drive on paper, in the real world, roads are wet and have corners, lots of them.

I doubt a 335i is going to perform any better than my 328xi given my commute has very few straight runs and lots of corners, plus where I live is wet or a good 3 months of the year.

Similarly, a 328 MT may feel faster due to the driver interaction, in reality, unless the driver is hitting the optimal shift points (which he probably isn't) it isn't any faster than an AT.

At the end of the day, for practical purposes, all these cars are going to have similar performance. They are all 3 series, i.e. entry level sport sedans, they are not performance cars by any stretch of the imagination, hell, much of the world uses them for taxi's!

Don't get me wrong, I love my car but see it for what it is, a nice daily driver. Driving ANY 3 series is no reason for arrogance, they're dime a dozen on the roads.

Ultimately, buy what you can afford and what offers the best value for money.
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  #71  
Old 12-29-2012, 10:31 AM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Gee, reading some of these posts you'd think the 335 was made by Ferrari. Reality check, it's a 3 SERIES BMW!
I don't know of anyone who thinks that. I also didn't get that vibe from anyone who posted in here

Last edited by SuperTerp; 12-29-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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  #72  
Old 12-29-2012, 11:14 AM
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bear-avhistory bear-avhistory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
Gee, reading some of these posts you'd think the 335 was made by Ferrari. Reality check, it's a 3 SERIES BMW!

On paper, a 335i is obviously a lot faster. Similarly, a 328 MT is faster than an AT. However, we don't drive on paper, in the real world, roads are wet and have corners, lots of them.

I doubt a 335i is going to perform any better than my 328xi given my commute has very few straight runs and lots of corners, plus where I live is wet or a good 3 months of the year.

Similarly, a 328 MT may feel faster due to the driver interaction, in reality, unless the driver is hitting the optimal shift points (which he probably isn't) it isn't any faster than an AT.

At the end of the day, for practical purposes, all these cars are going to have similar performance. They are all 3 series, i.e. entry level sport sedans, they are not performance cars by any stretch of the imagination, hell, much of the world uses them for taxi's!

Don't get me wrong, I love my car but see it for what it is, a nice daily driver. Driving ANY 3 series is no reason for arrogance, they're dime a dozen on the roads.

Ultimately, buy what you can afford and what offers the best value for money.
I own both a 330ci ZHP 6MT & a 335 DCT & will have to disagree with you about which car can get down a twisty road quicker. Both cars have the same summer tires (DW's) in one level oversize size for the stock wheels. The BMW factory ZHP option included extended rev range, more horsepower, quicker manual shifter, better suspension components with larger wheels & tires than the M package.

Also recent tests show the new 328 6MT while quicker then the last 328 model is still slower to accelerate, takes longer to stop, is slower out of a corner & in total is slower around a road course than a 335 AT. Rain effects both cars but generally wet traction is all about the tires so it's a wash, no pun intended. If twisty street performance is important to you its a good plan to lose the stock run flats & look at PPS or DW's at least one size up.

The new 328 performs very well but seat of the pants & actual results leaves no doubt as to which 3 series version you are driving. But back to the point the car you can afford is a lot more fun then one you can't.
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Last edited by bear-avhistory; 12-29-2012 at 11:27 AM.
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  #73  
Old 12-29-2012, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
Gee, reading some of these posts you'd think the 335 was made by Ferrari. Reality check, it's a 3 SERIES BMW!
I don't think any of us have delusions that a 335 is a super car but for $3K or so you can certainly have some fun with the supercars.

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Last edited by bear-avhistory; 12-29-2012 at 11:23 AM.
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  #74  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:01 PM
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Bemo Bemo is offline
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I find the 328 more than adequate as a daily driver bit there's no arguing that the turbos in the 335 will provide for a quicker acceleration. As for MT vs AT, yes I find the AT a bit weird but since I drive in manual mode at all times, that is of no concern to me. In fact it's tons of fun to NOT have the stupid 3rd pedal and be able to just drive and enjoy the total experience. I'll probably get crucified for saying this but here it is, manual transmissions are outdated and overrated, IMO of course. You can't embrace other enhancements and advances in automotive technology but get stuck on a manual tranny.

Anyway, drive a 328 and a 335 (MT & AT) back to back and decide afterwards.

P.S. I drove a manual for 15 years prior to getting an AT with a triptronic mode and it's the single biggest improvement I could have gotten!!
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:35 AM
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chris328 chris328 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,337
Mein Auto: 750Li Hi-Sec, '13 Actros
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidget View Post
My turn to be the community translator for Cal.

He is being half-serious, as usual. No car has a "power advantage" in sharp turns. It's a little thing racers sometimes call the traction circle. In tight corners you are limited by tires and suspension, not engine.

Cal is correct on two things. First the superior power of the 335 CAN cause more problems, IF you drive like an idiot. That is, it gives you more rope to hang yourself. But that's a driver problem, not a car problem. Secondly, if you really want to maximize the 3 series "fun" potential, look at upgrading the suspension and tires, rather than a bigger engine. A modded 328 can be a lot of fun in the twisties!
well put. i have had both, formerly an 08 328 and now an 11 335. Both are just as tight in turns, the 328 handles just as well as the 335. The 335 will get you out of the turn faster though
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