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  #1  
Old 05-16-2017, 06:49 AM
sylphide sylphide is offline
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Connecteddrive servers

Hi!

Since yesterday my X1 won't connect to connecteddrive (without reason). I have a retrofitted nbt evo and ATM which worked fine until now. When I try to access Connectedrive Store, it shows "an error has occured, please try again" after 1min. Updating apps also fails with timeout. RTTI is not working, but GPS position is still working.

Is there a way to know the ip address of BMW servers used and check if they are not down or something? (Esys, ISTA, ...)
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  #2  
Old 05-16-2017, 07:58 AM
Mashman Mashman is offline
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Did you log into the Connected Drive portal (https://www.bmw-connecteddrive.com/c...selection.html) and see if the services were still active?
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  #3  
Old 05-16-2017, 08:12 AM
sylphide sylphide is offline
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Yes and no.

I saw it before directly from headunit (connecteddrive store) that services are valid until 2020, but I cannot add the car in my connectedrive portal as my ATM VIN is different from my NBT original VIN. I would need to install an emulator and flash nbt evo with atm vin, I suppose, to make it work.

Maybe the sim card (assuming there is one in ATM) has been disabled? If a cable was unplugged, GPS would not work right?
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  #4  
Old 05-16-2017, 09:11 AM
Mashman Mashman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sylphide View Post
Yes and no.

I saw it before directly from headunit (connecteddrive store) that services are valid until 2020, but I cannot add the car in my connectedrive portal as my ATM VIN is different from my NBT original VIN. I would need to install an emulator and flash nbt evo with atm vin, I suppose, to make it work.

Maybe the sim card (assuming there is one in ATM) has been disabled? If a cable was unplugged, GPS would not work right?
I have retrofitted NBT with TCB, with an emulator, so I matched the NBT vin with the TCB vin, and loaded FSC's from TCB vin, so everything works - as far as BMW is concerned, my car is TCB original car.

I know with TCB most services will not work unless the TCB vin matches the NBT vin, but RTTI is supposed to work. Maybe that was changed with EVO/ATM?

My guess is that something triggered provisioning, and the vin's not matched caused the services to stop working. I doubt that BMW did anything on their side to permanently disable the sim card, so I would imagine if you got an emulator, and changed the NBT vin to match the ATM vin, you would be able to re-provision, and it would start working again.

I'm watching the for used ATM's, I would like to upgrade to EVO, but probably won't until if/when EVO supports Android Auto.
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  #5  
Old 05-16-2017, 09:13 AM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
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Different VIN is your problem. With retrofit, you would want your NBT VIN to match TCB VIN or EVO VIN to match ATM VIN.
The headunit stores provisioning data that does expire (expiration date is in provisioning file). The data is downloaded by headunit from BMW servers using TCB or ATM. In case of EVO, the provisioning file is signed by BMW to prevent modifications, like enabling Apps.
What you really need is to install an emulator that would shield EVO and ATM from car VIN. Your EVO VIN would need to match ATM. Once the VINs match, you would be able to use 'update services' and get your subscription back. You would need an FSC kit for EVO to match ATM.

As a temporary solution, I can download the provisioning data for your EVO and share it with you. PM me your EVO VIN. You would need to use Tool32 to upload the signed provisioning data into EVO. If you don't know how to use Tool32, find a BMW retrofitter comfortable with it first.
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  #6  
Old 05-16-2017, 09:27 AM
sylphide sylphide is offline
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PM sent. Thank you
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  #7  
Old 05-16-2017, 09:38 AM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
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Link to provisioning data sent.
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  #8  
Old 05-16-2017, 01:42 PM
sylphide sylphide is offline
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Originally Posted by 2real4u View Post
Different VIN is your problem. With retrofit, you would want your NBT VIN to match TCB VIN or EVO VIN to match ATM VIN.
The headunit stores provisioning data that does expire (expiration date is in provisioning file). The data is downloaded by headunit from BMW servers using TCB or ATM. In case of EVO, the provisioning file is signed by BMW to prevent modifications, like enabling Apps.
What you really need is to install an emulator that would shield EVO and ATM from car VIN. Your EVO VIN would need to match ATM. Once the VINs match, you would be able to use 'update services' and get your subscription back. You would need an FSC kit for EVO to match ATM.
Something is still not clear for me. If an emulator is installed and NBT EVO flashed with ATM VIN, are connecteddrive services only linked to this retrofitted ATM box/flashed NBT EVO VIN, or the factory car/VIN too?

And finally if the ATM VIN is older than factory VIN, will the flash still work? Currently, my NBT EVO is flashed with factory VIN.

Last edited by sylphide; 05-16-2017 at 02:18 PM.
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  #9  
Old 05-16-2017, 02:11 PM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
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Connecteddrive services are linked to a SIM card VIN inside Combox/TCB/ATM. With retrofit you need to register yourself with telematics donor VIN to be able to renew subscriptions through Web and use things like send2car.
NBT/EVO VIN has to match TCB/ATM VIN. But on F-series you cannot have NBT/EVO VIN be different from your CAS/FRM/BDC VIN without CAN filter.

So the correct setup for you would be:

[Rest of the car on CAN2]=[CAN Filter]=[NBT+TCB or EVO+ATM]
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2017, 02:22 PM
sylphide sylphide is offline
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OK, I see

So from my understanding, BMW servers represent a database with both VIN (X1 factory VIN and car that had my retrofitted ATM VIN), which have different connecteddrive subscriptions.

Let's say factory vin is xxx and ATM vin is yyy.

When my car sends a signal "my vin is yyy" from ATM, bmw servers find it in the database and send back subscriptions for yyy even if factory VIN is xxx (xxx is "hidden" by emulator"). In other words, original VIN is out of sight from BMW perspective (and original subscriptions are completely replaced by retrofitted ATM subscriptions).

Is my assumption correct or is it much more complicated?
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  #11  
Old 05-16-2017, 02:33 PM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
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Correct, once you install donor Combox/ATM/TCB, BMW can only communicate with your car using donor VIN, but the provisioning and telematics messages are encrypted using VIN, so it is important for headunit to have the same VIN as telematics module to be able to decrypt and process the messages.
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  #12  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:11 PM
yoodog yoodog is offline
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Another way

How about th situation when

1. Evo is flashed completely with FSC based on original Car vin.
2. Car originally had all telematic services available
3. ATM retrofitted

So you say, we need Evo to be isolated and be flashed with ATM vin FSC, BUT

We could:
1. Use a programmer and copy over the original sim board data from car original TCB over to ATM module
2. We could resolder TCB sim board to ATM?
3. Change VIN inside ATM?


Also something is odd here. Why would services allow first update and work for some month, update maps, show weather, news and trafic online, and than just stop?

------ oh yeah, I should probably say that I did this I install :-)) -----
It is in X1 2016 which had EntryNav + TCB with ++ version of telematics and every service worked beside remote control (which definitely supports your word about vin communication mismatch)

Last edited by yoodog; 05-16-2017 at 03:13 PM.
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  #13  
Old 05-16-2017, 03:37 PM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
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You cannot use programmer - SIM is copy protected.
Why is ATM retrofitted? Is it because the car used to have TCB? If so, you cannot use SIM from TCB in ATM. You can move SIM from ATM to ATM, say from sharkfin ATM to trunk ATM, but you cannot move from ATM to TCB or vice versa.
Essentially when you replace your telematics module with donor, you cannot use your old telematics subscription anymore because it is tied to SIM in your module, you have to use the subscription from donor.

ATM or TCB with VIN mismatch will work until the provisioning data expires. Then you could either manually update provisioning data using BMW Standard Tools, or match the VINs between headunit and telematics, so that data is updated as designed. Of course, as soon as your headunit hears incorrect VIN from CAS/FEM/BDC, it will lock out navigation, or the whole unit.

In your case, you should use an adapter, get an FSC kit for ATM VIN and install it into EVO. Forget about services activated with your old VIN - you no longer have telematics for it.

Last edited by 2real4u; 05-16-2017 at 03:39 PM.
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  #14  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:01 PM
yoodog yoodog is offline
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That's is very interesting read, but some how people in Russia install ATM with car original VIN all the time and have no problems what so ever. I will have to speek with my partners and see if there other solution. Also, activators won't work on latest IStep for Evo - thats what I've heard at least.
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  #15  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:05 PM
yoodog yoodog is offline
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Thank you for contributing your knowledge on ATM and telematics operation, it is a valuable picace of puzzle.

I think I have found once an article where a guy copied TCB vin SIM card info over, so was it possible only with TCb and it is not any more with ATM?

Also, I have multiple confirmations of people using TCB SIM card on ATM. What is the reason behind your theory of it won't work?
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  #16  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:10 PM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoodog View Post
That's is very interesting read, but some how people in Russia install ATM with car original VIN all the time and have no problems what so ever. I will have to speek with my partners and see if there other solution. Also, activators won't work on latest IStep for Evo - thats what I've heard at least.
Provisioning data on EVO expires every 180 days. If you VINs don't match, your install shops in Russia would have to renew provisioning data manually. Very few know how to do this without changing VINs.
Difficulties with latest 61.1+ are related to cars with BDC. Cars with FEM are not affected - read the release notes for Ista/P 61.1.
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  #17  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:14 PM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yoodog View Post
Thank you for contributing your knowledge on ATM and telematics operation, it is a valuable picace of puzzle.

I think I have found once an article where a guy copied TCB vin SIM card info over, so was it possible only with TCb and it is not any more with ATM?

Also, I have multiple confirmations of people using TCB SIM card on ATM. What is the reason behind your theory of it won't work?
At least in US the TCB and ATM SIMs are on different networks, using different frequencies. TCB is 3g, while ATM is LTE.
If in Russia both use the same network, it is possible you can solder SIM from TCB to ATM. Not sure how would you manage provisioning, since some of the services for NBT and EVO are different.

As far as copying SIM, try cloning a 3G or newer SIM card from conventional cell phone. TCB/ATM SIM is no different, it is just in a different form factor.
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  #18  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:20 PM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
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Just watch out for OTA updates - BMW has an ability to push software updates to NBT and newer units over the air. Nothing prevents BMW from sending an update that checks the validity of the certs in headunit and bricking headunits with 3rd party FSCs along with disabling telematics subscription. They have implemented this to be able to fix security vulnurabilities in timely fashion, but nothing prevents them from using it to enforce DRM.
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  #19  
Old 05-16-2017, 04:24 PM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
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Besides, don't trust what you read on drive2 too much, 2 years ago there was a guy claiming he got traffic to work without TCB, while in fact he was still using the SIM from TCB, just tethered over bluetooth.
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  #20  
Old 05-17-2017, 01:19 AM
sylphide sylphide is offline
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Originally Posted by 2real4u View Post
Just watch out for OTA updates - BMW has an ability to push software updates to NBT and newer units over the air. Nothing prevents BMW from sending an update that checks the validity of the certs in headunit and bricking headunits with 3rd party FSCs along with disabling telematics subscription. They have implemented this to be able to fix security vulnurabilities in timely fashion, but nothing prevents them from using it to enforce DRM.
Security is not the main concern of BMW. There are already so many breaches... and skilled hackers can already do whatever they want with your car (for example keyless issue, remote control). I believe BMW just want to sell more cars and avoid discussion when hacking happens. In any case they would probably send a letter before remotely bricking anything. It depends on country laws. All connectedrive subscriptions were originally paid (factory and donor) so why would BMW care.

My TCB was 3G, and ATM is 4G. However if it is like cell phones, you can plug 3G cards into LTE phones. You mean ATM hardware is not backward compatible with 3G (with soldering)?
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  #21  
Old 05-17-2017, 08:57 AM
BusyBox BusyBox is offline
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Is there any way to check what's the subscription status and which services are active for a selected VIN with factory EVO+ATM? I need to check such one.
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  #22  
Old 05-17-2017, 09:04 AM
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Yes, there is, send VIN by PM and an email address.
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  #23  
Old 05-19-2017, 08:59 AM
sbc55 sbc55 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2real4u View Post
ATM or TCB with VIN mismatch will work until the provisioning data expires. Then you could either manually update provisioning data using BMW Standard Tools, or match the VINs between headunit and telematics, so that data is updated as designed. Of course, as soon as your headunit hears incorrect VIN from CAS/FEM/BDC, it will lock out navigation, or the whole unit.
I am planning to retrofit ARTTI using a donor TCB with my current NBT unit. Can you show me the prg and parameters to import the provisioning data using tool32? I would like to revert back NBT to my car's vin after i update the services and remove the emulator.

Btw, must i use the donor's VIN from TCB and NBT with the matching set of FSC in NBT in order for all services to work properly, or i can just use the emulator and code NBT with the donor VIN? If i need to use the donor's VIN for services to work then i cant revert back to my car's VIN for NBT right?

Thanks.

Last edited by sbc55; 05-19-2017 at 04:40 PM.
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  #24  
Old 05-19-2017, 04:51 PM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
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On F series for proper functionality you would want NBT and TCB VINs to match TCB donor VIN. Unless you want to change the VIN in CAS (bad idea), you'll need a can filter. You'll also need NBT FSC set for TCB VIN.
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  #25  
Old 05-19-2017, 05:10 PM
sbc55 sbc55 is online now
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So i must i use emulator for this case?

Can i get FSCs for F10 if my donor TCB is F48?

Last edited by sbc55; 05-19-2017 at 05:13 PM.
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