ZF 5HP19 Facts, Document, troubleshooting

Hi,
Starting a new thread dedicated to the ZF 5HP19 Automatic transmission. This thread hopefully consists of facts, ZF documents and troubleshooting tips that are based upon these documents or other ZF documents.

I'd like to see posts that discuss a problem and a report of steps taken to resolve that problem with success.

This way we don't pollute this thread with " it's broken, how do I fix it". Let's try to keep those topics on a different thread.

Thanks! /Dave

ZF fluid chart

ZF technical details, theory of operation, solenoids, etc. I found this very helpful in understanding how the shift and TCC solenoids operate and how to troubleshoot a defective solenoid.

This is a short document that is especially helpful in understanding how to properly fill your transmission. NOTE: The importance of determining the fluid temperature for proper filling.
To get vehicle level, I jack up the front, put jack stands under the front pads, then jacked up the rear. I then measured from the floor to the front pads, then used that measurement to set the height in the rear.

Subscribed.
Thanks!

This Service Information bulletin supersedes SI 24 03 06 dated February 2008.

designates changes to this revision

SUBJECT
ZF 5HP19 Transmission - Diagnosis of EGS FC 048 (30 hex)


MODEL
E46: 323i, 325i, 330i with M52TU, M54, M56 and ZF 5HP19

E39: 525i, 530i with M54 and ZF 5HP19

E85: Z4 roadster 2.5, 3.0 with M54 and ZF 5HP19


SITUATION
"Service Engine Soon" is illuminated and fault code 048 "Converter lock-up excessive slip" (30 hex or P0741) is stored in the EGS transmission control module.

CAUSE
Possible cause: deterioration of the torque converter turbine shaft seal

PROCEDURE

Remove the torque converter. For the removal procedure, refer to Repair Manual RA24 40 002.

[S2406U01.JPG]
2. Drain the fluid out of the torque converter, and carefully inspect the turbine shaft seal (1) INSIDE THE BOTTOM OF THE TORQUE CONVERTER for signs of damage (cracks, splits, etc.).Helpful Hints:
3. Use a small flashlight to illuminate inside the bottom of the torque converter to examine the turbine shaft seal. The turbine seal is brownish orange in color and measures approximately 1" in diameter.
If evidence of seal deterioration is found, replace the torque converter.


Additionally, if the transmission fluid shows signs of deterioration ("dirty fluid"), the fluid should be replaced in conjunction with the fluid strainer. For the strainer replacement procedure, refer to Repair Manual RA24 31 151.

Refill and/or top off the fluid level according to Repair Manual RA 00 11 500, using ESSO ATF LT 71141 (P/N 83 22 9 407 807).

If after careful inspection it appears that the turbine seal is intact, contact Automatic Transmission Enhanced Technical Support (TeileClearing) for further diagnostic instructions. Submit the "regular technical support" PuMA case, referencing SI B24 03 06 in its title.

WARRANTY INFORMATION
Covered under the terms of the BMW New Vehicle Limited Warranty.

Please refer to the latest KSD for the appropriate model applicable labor allowances.

Defect Code
24 40 02 61 00


Labor Operation
24 40 002
Main Work*

Replace torque converter

or

Labor Operation
+24 40 502
Replace torque converter

*Main Work:
Use this labor operation number when this is the only repair being performed, or if this is the main repair when performed along with other repairs at the same time. If this is not the main repair, refer to KSD for the associated (+) labor operation code.

Tranny shops that can fix the ZF slushbox (no reverse issue among it)

P.S.: Some people do not have the skills or tools to take off the tranny and fix it, me included (I can only do ATF change).

Attached is a document to properly identify your transmission.

Nice going! All saved!

Does anyone know if the seals for the torque converter can be ordered? I heard of a place called OER converter in port orchard WA but can't seem to find their info on the web.

The solution is a rebuilt converter if your wanting to replace the lock up clutch seal in the converter.
Try realoem to find the part number you need.

Great information. Thank you.

So after 150 miles after the "re-learn" drive cycle the SE light came back again and sure enough code P0741 re-appeared. So the TC replacement will be the next option. Still don't feel any shifting problems nor any degrading of fuel consumption (avg 27-28 miles per gallon hwy).

My tech pulled through yet again today and found a company that specializes only in Torque converters and they are located in Southern California. For a new TC they only charge $255 + $20 s/h....and no core return required. And they offer a 1 YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY ON THEIR PRODUCT!!!

So anyone in need go to: www.torqueconverter1.com

Will probably do the repair in a week or 2 just in case there are some underlying issues going on with the TC/tranny.

Originally Posted by sincitybimmer

So after 150 miles after the "re-learn" drive cycle the SE light came back again and sure enough code P0741 re-appeared. So the TC replacement will be the next option. Still don't feel any shifting problems nor any degrading of fuel consumption (avg 27-28 miles per gallon hwy).

My tech pulled through yet again today and found a company that specializes only in Torque converters and they are located in Southern California. For a new TC they only charge $255 + $20 s/h....and no core return required. And they offer a 1 YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY ON THEIR PRODUCT!!!

So anyone in need go to: www.torqueconverter1.com

Will probably do the repair in a week or 2 just in case there are some underlying issues going on with the TC/tranny.

Did you ever replace your TC? I'm waiting for a Bavarian Technic software kit to diagnose what codes mine is throwing but could be transmission related, my alternator crapped out and kicked in TRANS SAFE MODE. Replaced the alternator within 7 miles of incident so hoping did no permanent damage... did make a good loud CLUNK when it happened as I was doing 80 mph on the highway at the time the battery light came on : (

Hi, i just saw your post on the fault code 048 "Converter lock-up excessive slip" (30 hex or P0741), i have this trouble since 2 week, i have the transmission light in the dash each 1-2 days, the tranny run very well do you think that is a torque converter problem, because each shop want to rebuilt the entire tranny.

Thanks:

Originally Posted by sebasl78

Hi, i just saw your post on the fault code 048 "Converter lock-up excessive slip" (30 hex or P0741), i have this trouble since 2 week, i have the transmission light in the dash each 1-2 days, the tranny run very well do you think that is a torque converter problem, because each shop want to rebuilt the entire tranny.

Thanks:

My alternator crapped out and then was replaced with the battery disconnected. The BMW dealer told me that a battery disconnect after a TRANS SAFE MODE (kicked on due to low battery voltage) can scramble the transmission module code. 4/2 I go in for a $118 reflash. If I drive it a week without the SES light coming on, I'll change the ATF and filter ($325 at the stealer). If it does come on when they do their test drive, I'll change the ATF and filter too.

A torque converter is $150 + $20 shipping from a CA company. If it bugs me, I'll have the TC changed and see what happens from there. I cant see any reason the mechanical part of the tranny / gears / clutches / etc will go bad due to a TC... I'll post my results.

Originally Posted by gtxragtop

Attached is a document to properly identify your transmission.

Great information.

Originally Posted by sebasl78

Hi, i just saw your post on the fault code 048 "Converter lock-up excessive slip" (30 hex or P0741), i have this trouble since 2 week, i have the transmission light in the dash each 1-2 days, the tranny run very well do you think that is a torque converter problem, because each shop want to rebuilt the entire tranny.

Thanks:

Did you ever solve your issue? I cant believe it is my TC seal as it takes 170 miles before it comes back on... thinking if it was a torn TC seal it would come on right away... this is with me pushing it hard right after resetting. Seems with so many electrical "nuances" I'm fearful of doing the TC replacement and not fixing anything. I had the EGS reflashed at my BMW dealer $118, now thinking do an ATF flush / filter and see what it does... last resort will be a TC.

Ok, just had the most informative conversation with a ZF authorized BMW repair facility out there in CA, Dose BMW 619-322-3065, www.dosebmw.com. Steve Dose knows his ZF stuff... bottom line, likely the TC seal is torn, apparently very common on our trannys. Also, the impact of not repairing it right away is that the torque converter may not lock up at highway speed which in my case means rpm's of 2900 at 80mph vs. 2750 (slightly worse gas mileage). He thought my trans safe mode / alternator event was a coincidence vs. the cause of the code 48. Also said that ESSO is now TrueLife and that Valvoline MaxLife $5 is just as good, he uses TrueLife only becuase using MaxLife (red) can confuse the uninitiated and they can make the mistake of putting in regular ATF. He also clarified the "no flush" theory is bunk, old tranny's used to varnish up which some believe can "hold together" an older transmission. For mine, under 65,000, the fluid is likely fine but if I wanted to flush it, I could (I'm secretly hoping that will eliminate the code 48 by some magical means). Otherwise, his suggestion, new TC, they sell ZF rebuilt ones for $475. He said check on the cheaper $200 units you hear about and make sure they are actually rebuilt by those that know and have the replacement parts to fix them. So my plan is RedLine in the engine, Valvoline MaxLife in the transmission and RedLine in the rear diff. Hope this info helps anybody searching on this issue / code.

Originally Posted by Hooray!

Ok, just had the most informative conversation with a ZF authorized BMW repair facility out there in CA, Dose BMW 619-322-3065, www.dosebmw.com. Steve Dose knows his ZF stuff... bottom line, likely the TC seal is torn, apparently very common on our trannys. Also, the impact of not repairing it right away is that the torque converter may not lock up at highway speed which in my case means rpm's of 2900 at 80mph vs. 2750 (slightly worse gas mileage). He thought my trans safe mode / alternator event was a coincidence vs. the cause of the code 48. Also said that ESSO is now TrueLife and that Valvoline MaxLife $5 is just as good, he uses TrueLife only becuase using MaxLife (red) can confuse the uninitiated and they can make the mistake of putting in regular ATF. He also clarified the "no flush" theory is bunk, old tranny's used to varnish up which some believe can "hold together" an older transmission. For mine, under 65,000, the fluid is likely fine but if I wanted to flush it, I could (I'm secretly hoping that will eliminate the code 48 by some magical means). Otherwise, his suggestion, new TC, they sell ZF rebuilt ones for $475. He said check on the cheaper $200 units you hear about and make sure they are actually rebuilt by those that know and have the replacement parts to fix them. So my plan is RedLine in the engine, Valvoline MaxLife in the transmission and RedLine in the rear diff. Hope this info helps anybody searching on this issue / code.

So did he discuss if the new TC seal is of a new design to prevent this from happening again? Seems to be a common defect. If this was not discussed, can you ask him and post the answer please.

Also be aware that if the TC is slipping, then the friction materials are slipping, heating up, which result in fine burnt particles in your fluid. At some point, the friction material is worn away and metal is removed.

I did ask him that and no the TC seal on the new or rebuilt units is exactly the same, meaning we will only get another 40k-120k out of the rebuild! I also asked him about the TC "slippage" and he said that on this design TC, there is always some "slip" as unlike the old tranny's in tucks that locked (clamped) in hard, the clamping force of a locked up TC in this ZF is relatively light. You can tell your TC is locking by driving on a perfectly level patch of road at 80 mph and your rpm will be about 2750. If you depress the gas or go up even a 1% grade, you will feel a "shift" which is actually your TC unlocking and rpms will jump to 2900. Our TC's have this feature in 3rd, 4th and 5th so really we have an "8 speed" transmission. With some paying attention, I can detect the 4th "locked/unlocke" and 5th "locked/unlocked" but not 3rd. Also, the planetary gear noise you hear in 1st geat, and ever so slightly in 2nd gear is a "normal" part of this design.

Regarding burning up ATF, I'm not so sure that the amount of slippage it takes to thow code 48 will do that. In my case, it still locks up (ie 2750 rpms 80mph 5th), so it cant be slipping all that much. The other interesting tid bit on oils is that the original ESSO "lifetime" fluid is man-made but not really a synthetic, this is why the Valvoline MaxLife is the only 2nd substitute in his mind (apparently Valvoline is the only one to indemnify the use of their ATF in a BMW). I want to research the syntheticness of ESSO and MaxLife as I believe RedLine and Royal Purple are full syns...

He also mentioned that some of the bad reverse bell housings made their way into 2002 530i's which sucks. Apparently, all the 323 and 530i wagons with no reverse was due to a ZF supplier that made thousands of bad reverse bell housings... go figure why that is not covered in a recall like this "known" seal issue.

Like I said, Steve seems like a great resource and was very informative as he lives it daily. I wish I was in southern CA where he is because I would bring my car to him to have a new TC put in when I decide to do it. My plan is to do a full 12 qt flush, pan drop/filter with MaxLife (I was leaning RedLine) and see if that helps anything, maybe my tear is really small and some new fluid will provide like new "friction" so the TC locks up a little longer.

Originally Posted by Hooray!

I did ask him that and no the TC seal on the new or rebuilt units is exactly the same, meaning we will only get another 40k-120k out of the rebuild! I also asked him about the TC "slippage" and he said that on this design TC, there is always some "slip" as unlike the old tranny's in tucks that locked (clamped) in hard, the clamping force of a locked up TC in this ZF is relatively light. You can tell your TC is locking by driving on a perfectly level patch of road at 80 mph and your rpm will be about 2750. If you depress the gas or go up even a 1% grade, you will feel a "shift" which is actually your TC unlocking and rpms will jump to 2900. Our TC's have this feature in 3rd, 4th and 5th so really we have an "8 speed" transmission. With some paying attention, I can detect the 4th "locked/unlocke" and 5th "locked/unlocked" but not 3rd. Also, the planetary gear noise you hear in 1st geat, and ever so slightly in 2nd gear is a "normal" part of this design.

Regarding burning up ATF, I'm not so sure that the amount of slippage it takes to thow code 48 will do that. In my case, it still locks up (ie 2750 rpms 80mph 5th), so it cant be slipping all that much. The other interesting tid bit on oils is that the original ESSO "lifetime" fluid is man-made but not really a synthetic, this is why the Valvoline MaxLife is the only 2nd substitute in his mind (apparently Valvoline is the only one to indemnify the use of their ATF in a BMW). I want to research the syntheticness of ESSO and MaxLife as I believe RedLine and Royal Purple are full syns...

He also mentioned that some of the bad reverse bell housings made their way into 2002 530i's which sucks. Apparently, all the 323 and 530i wagons with no reverse was due to a ZF supplier that made thousands of bad reverse bell housings... go figure why that is not covered in a recall like this "known" seal issue.

Like I said, Steve seems like a great resource and was very informative as he lives it daily. I wish I was in southern CA where he is because I would bring my car to him to have a new TC put in when I decide to do it. My plan is to do a full 12 qt flush, pan drop/filter with MaxLife (I was leaning RedLine) and see if that helps anything, maybe my tear is really small and some new fluid will provide like new "friction" so the TC locks up a little longer.

Hope it works for you. For me, it made no difference. Solution was new TC. In my case, the slipping was quite pronounced. It was difficult to keep it locked. I drove perhaps 500 miles after the oil/filter change before replacing the TC. The fluid got quite dirty again which I attribute to the slipping TC clutch.

Originally Posted by gtxragtop

Hope it works for you. For me, it made no difference. Solution was new TC. In my case, the slipping was quite pronounced. It was difficult to keep it locked. I drove perhaps 500 miles after the oil/filter change before replacing the TC. The fluid got quite dirty again which I attribute to the slipping TC clutch.

Did yours throw code 48 too? How many miles did you have on it when it went?

I cant help but think, mine got pushed a little when the 80 mph trans safe mode (alt related) unclamped the TC and pulled all the solenoids in one nice THUNK!

Who did you have do your TC and how much? I see one in my future : (

Originally Posted by Hooray!

Did yours throw code 48 too? How many miles did you have on it when it went?

I cant help but think, mine got pushed a little when the 80 mph trans safe mode (alt related) unclamped the TC and pulled all the solenoids in one nice THUNK!

Who did you have do your TC and how much? I see one in my future : (

Yes code 48/P0741 Went around 85K

ZF transmission rebuild - DIY