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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #76  
Old 01-11-2013, 11:12 PM
Cdnrockies Cdnrockies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
That is the worst excuse I have ever heard for Acura's platform sharing ever. Does Lexus base their entire lineup around the Camry platform? Nope. Lexus is true Japanese luxury.

Acura is merely an upscale Honda, not quite luxury. You can go sit in an Accord and then sit in a TL. No major differences in trim at all. Very similar feeling. Infiniti is treading the fine line because they at least make some competitive sports sedans with RWD, V8, etc.


If they realized that one has to innovate, why would they come out with the pathetic ILX? They're rushing an emergency facelift (like the '13 Civic) because it was really that terrible. Nothing in their lineup stands out, except the hideous beak on the front of all of them.



Sorry, I don't believe it. I can see Lexus and the Germans, but that's it. To be a driving force, a company has to be on the cutting edge. JUST releasing engines with direct injection or 6 speed automatics shows you are about 5-6 years behind the curve. (Especially since Hyundai even has it).

They don't even understand their lineup at all. They take the fantastic last-gen RDX with SH-AWD and the turbo-4, dump both the engine and AWD and make it a upscale CRV. They take the last gen (beautiful BTW) TL and ruin it with the hideous styling. They bring out an entry level Civic-based ILX that gets poor fuel economy in every trim, compared to its competition.

They finally get around to brining out direct injection and LED headlights, but guess what? It doesn't debut on an Acura, Honda brings it out on the '13 Accord

They still use decade-old J and K series engines that haven't been noteworthy in years.

Everyone is eating their lunch. Any brand that basically uses one platform to base all their models shows that they aren't serious about the luxury market. All they care about is the bottom dollar. True Japanese luxury is Lexus. (ISF, LFA, new GS).
+1

Acura as true luxury....lmao.

Come check out the CSX they offered up here....rebadged Civic....and not even slightly disguised.

MDX is the only decent vehicle that they offer.

FWD, V6, ugly beaked = pseudo-luxury.
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Last edited by Cdnrockies; 01-11-2013 at 11:33 PM.
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  #77  
Old 01-11-2013, 11:31 PM
Cdnrockies Cdnrockies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoI4plz View Post
I`m pretty sure any excuse that anyone comes up with ,about Acura will be met with the same response from you so I`d rather not waste my time trying. However What I can say however are two things:

1) Lexus, Infiniti, Acura all platform share the heck out of themselves. remember that a 370z is the same as the G series (quite a weird pairing), the toyota camry is the same as a lexus es, and a Acura TL is the same as an Honda Accord.
2) Lexus and Infiniti have all gone thru or going their individual brand revolution. Lexus with their F-sport, Infiniti with the IPL, and Acura is slowly beginning this step. Acura is slowly getting there.
Acura is so late to the party that it hardly matters. How are they slowly getting there? Name one model that they have released that is a game changer or offers something truly competitive to the true luxury marques (ie. Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Lexus).

Quote:
Recently had a chance to sit in a buddies `12 Camry, and redesigned GS. The interior trimmings are similar (not saying identical), but you can see that both dash material came off the same mfg line and possibly the same designer and engineer. Japanese Luxury vehicles never really hit the spot when it comes to interior design. I think between the german brands, interior designs have been really great with BMW's E+F-platform, (X/5series and above only) and Mercedes new lineup of Crossovers (think ML+GL).
Haha.....disparaging the interior designs of the Japanese manufacturers compared to the German brands. What a joke.

Go have a peek at the newly released interior pics of the new IS compared to the F30 interior. Love or hate the exterior and controversial grill, the interior absolutely embarasses the Bimmer.

Quote:
The Beak is quite odd I agree.
It's not odd, it's flat out ugly and something that their up and coming young designer should be banished from the car industry for. A failure of this epic proportion, that was supported by the executive, is inexcusable.

Quote:
I agree, but just a couple years ago, Lexus was synonymous with phrase boring beige luxury. Then out of nowhere comes the LFA and the F-line and WOW Lexus becomes on par with De Germans. We can only hope for the same with Acura, but only time will tell However counting Acura out would be a hasty
Please explain in what way Acura has shown that they are "taking the next step" or how we should "hope" that Acura is almost there?

Lexus may have been beige but they absolutely killed it in other areas, and are now showing that they can do it all. They led the way in service and reliablity, and delivered a level of refinement and luxury at a lower price point than the Germans. Acura has not shown that they can consistently deliver any of this, other than reliability.

Aside from the mythical NSX, they have nothing that can take them to the next level in their lineup. Even the NSX sounds like a fail if they bring it in the form they are discussing.

Quote:
Your last bit is true, funny, and a bit of a rant. We can all sit here, argue how Acura is confused, distasteful, and just plain stupid in their decisions however weren't we all like this in our adolescence, and I`m guessing everyone turned out fine in the end. If we are to judge a brand in it`s adolescence, a time when they`re trying to find their brand identity, which once found, will solidify there future, I think its just too hasty. That would be similar to writing off Apple during the late 90s. However right after 98 Apple found their way and now their #1 in the field. WHO KNOWS LOL

^See Bold
How are they in their adolescence? Acura had a chance to become a major player a decade ago and instead have come out with garbage that is pseudo-luxury and lacks any kind of performance.
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  #78  
Old 01-12-2013, 12:41 AM
henrycyao henrycyao is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdnrockies View Post
Go have a peek at the newly released interior pics of the new IS compared to the F30 interior. Love or hate the exterior and controversial grill, the interior absolutely embarasses the Bimmer.
I made a mistake of looking at Jaguar XF/XJ and Mercedes S class before walking into BMW booth yesterday in SJ Auto Show.

It just show how bad BMW interior design is compared to other auto makers. F30? Did it go one notch down in luxury? What about X1? That should not have BMW badge. Okay, lets look at 5 series. Wait, no leather on the dash and center console like Jaguar? What's going on? Is this supposed to be the same price as Jaguar XF?

I don't think BMW deserve to be called a luxury car makers if they keep lower their standard in the F30, X1, X3, and 5 series.

I think BMW is hurting themselves by being too cheap and margin focused on the newer models.

After I got back to my BMW X5, I thought my car could compete against Jaugar if I ordered it Nappa leather dash/console. Yet, that option is not even available on the BMW 535. What is going on?

By the way, the new 5 series and 3 series LCD has horrible viewing angle. The color changes quite dramatically from passenger perspective vs. X5 LCD. Hmm, did they go for a cheaper panel?
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  #79  
Old 01-12-2013, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Cdnrockies View Post
MDX is the only decent vehicle that they offer.

Yes, I recall an X5 vs. MDX comparison article in the Roundel in which the BMW-biased reviewer declared the MDX 4WD to be clearly more advanced and superior performing to the X5 XDrive in the snow and in mountain curves.
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  #80  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:49 AM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
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Originally Posted by henrycyao View Post
I made a mistake of looking at Jaguar XF/XJ and Mercedes S class before walking into BMW booth yesterday in SJ Auto Show.

It just show how bad BMW interior design is compared to other auto makers. F30? Did it go one notch down in luxury? What about X1? That should not have BMW badge. Okay, lets look at 5 series. Wait, no leather on the dash and center console like Jaguar? What's going on? Is this supposed to be the same price as Jaguar XF?

I don't think BMW deserve to be called a luxury car makers if they keep lower their standard in the F30, X1, X3, and 5 series.
Jaguar only makes cars that cost ~$50k+. Let's not forget that you can get the Nappa dash/console, but you have to pony up for it. Just wait for Jag when they start going downmarket.

Plus the XF's interior isn't even that great. Horrible plastics, dated infotainment system, dated looks. The leaders in that segment are the Audi A6 and Lexus GS by a mile.

Quote:
I think BMW is hurting themselves by being too cheap and margin focused on the newer models.
No, those are "cheap" cars and have low end interiors. I disagree on the 5 series. It has a very high quality interior. BMWs NEVER had high quality interiors, until very recently. Compare the E60 to the last gen Audi A6, etc. It was a step behind, but the driving dynamics made up for it. But now BMW is spending the $$$ to make their interiors competitive.

Quote:
After I got back to my BMW X5, I thought my car could compete against Jaugar if I ordered it Nappa leather dash/console. Yet, that option is not even available on the BMW 535. What is going on?
The E70's interior isn't even that good. The Audi Q7, Porsche Cayenne, VW Touareg, Mercedes ML all have higher quality interiors with better fit and finish.
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  #81  
Old 01-12-2013, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoI4plz View Post
I`m pretty sure any excuse that anyone comes up with ,about Acura will be met with the same response from you so I`d rather not waste my time trying. However What I can say however are two things:

1) Lexus, Infiniti, Acura all platform share the heck out of themselves. remember that a 370z is the same as the G series (quite a weird pairing), the toyota camry is the same as a lexus es, and a Acura TL is the same as an Honda Accord.
2) Lexus and Infiniti have all gone thru or going their individual brand revolution. Lexus with their F-sport, Infiniti with the IPL, and Acura is slowly beginning this step. Acura is slowly getting there.
1. Lexus doesn't share even remotely as close. Lexus ES is based on the Avalon (also a high end car.) Lexus RX is based on Highlander (RX came first fyi). All the other high products are distinctly Lexus-only. IS, GS, LS, LFA, CT, etc.

Acura isn't doing anything to change this. ILX? Civic. TSX? It's a straight rebadge of the euro Accord. RDX? CRV RL? TL? ZDX? MDX? All variants of Accord.

And they aren't changing either. "upcoming" NSX? Accord platform. RLX? same Accord platform.

2. Lexus started to revolutionize their products years ago. So did Infiniti. It is embarassing to them to compare them to Acura. How is Acura "getting there?" Lexus has the LFA, ISF. Where is Acura?

Quote:
Recently had a chance to sit in a buddies `12 Camry, and redesigned GS. The interior trimmings are similar (not saying identical), but you can see that both dash material came off the same mfg line and possibly the same designer and engineer. Japanese Luxury vehicles never really hit the spot when it comes to interior design.
Know how I know you haven't sat in a Lexus GS or Camry? They aren't even remotely related or built on the same continents. Camry? North America. GS? Aichi, Japan.

Unlike Acura, Lexus has their own designers/engineering. Not even remotely related to any Toyota.

The Lexus GS has one of the highest quality interiors in its class. Only the A6 might be able to match it. High quality leather, metal everywhere. Little plastic.

Even the little Lexus CT has a better interior than all Acuras these days.

Have you seen the new Lexus IS? Would you say it has the same interior of a Corolla? Hell no. It's best in class by a huge margin. Shame, the outside is awful though.

Making fun of Japanese interior design is a new low for you. Lexus is doing fantastic things.
Quote:

I agree, but just a couple years ago, Lexus was synonymous with phrase boring beige luxury. Then out of nowhere comes the LFA and the F-line and WOW Lexus becomes on par with De Germans. We can only hope for the same with Acura, but only time will tell However counting Acura out would be a hasty
Of course, time will tell. But Honda is slowly revamping the Acura lineup...but with junk, like the ILX and new RDX. I put my money on the brand becoming worse. The upcoming RLX looks like a larger Accord. Hardly, class leading in any way, shape, or form,


Quote:
Your last bit is true, funny, and a bit of a rant. We can all sit here, argue how Acura is confused, distasteful, and just plain stupid in their decisions however weren't we all like this in our adolescence, and I`m guessing everyone turned out fine in the end. If we are to judge a brand in it`s adolescence, a time when they`re trying to find their brand identity, which once found, will solidify there future, I think its just too hasty. That would be similar to writing off Apple during the late 90s. However right after 98 Apple found their way and now their #1 in the field. WHO KNOWS LOL

^See Bold
In their adolescence? What kind of crap is this? They had a chance to be a player. Instead, they ****ed around and have become an upscale Honda.

Comparison to Apple is pathetic. If we're not forgetting, Apple came out with class leading products and came out with things that no one else had. Acura is merely catching up with what Lexus/MB/Audi/BMW have had for the last 5-6 years or so. If the new RLX, RDX, ILX are supposed to be this change you see from Acura, then good riddance Acura. Apple never plays catch-up.

They were first to the Jap. luxo party. By far the worst now. Sorry your beloved Acura is nothing, but a joke these days. I'm sure there's a place for you on AcuraZine to talk about how "class-leading" and "forward-thinking" they are these days.

Last edited by AutoUnion; 01-12-2013 at 05:10 AM.
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  #82  
Old 01-12-2013, 05:49 AM
patrnflyr patrnflyr is offline
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I can remember back in the early 90's when my Acura Legend coupe was one of the ultimate status symbols and drove like a luxury GT. it had options not even thought of by other manufacturers of the time. Now look at them.
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  #83  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:58 AM
Cdnrockies Cdnrockies is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
Of course, time will tell. But Honda is slowly revamping the Acura lineup...but with junk, like the ILX and new RDX. I put my money on the brand becoming worse. The upcoming RLX looks like a larger Accord. Hardly, class leading in any way, shape, or form,
Problem is....even Acura realizes and acknowledges that they cannot compete with the Tier 1 luxury brands (ie. BMW/MB/Audi/Lexus). They've shifted their sites to the Buick's, Infiniti's, Volvo's of the world as they can compete there.

Quote:
Acura is in the middle of a major product changeover, reflecting plans to challenge second-tier luxury rivals Audi, Buick, Infiniti and Volvo rather than Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Lexus.
Not sure how they don't consider Audi Tier 1 but that's besides the point. Second older article is obviously wrong about the NSX.

http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dl...EM04/307309997

http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=866545


Quote:
Originally Posted by patrnflyr View Post
I can remember back in the early 90's when my Acura Legenda coupe was one of the ultimate status symbols and drove like a luxury GT. it had options not even thought of by other manufacturers of the time. Now look at them.
Agreed. The Legend was a ground breaking car, as was the original NSX.

The Legend went out of production 17 years ago.

The NSX was gone 7 years ago. What is more amazing about the NSX is that it's life cycle was 15 years. How they didn't revamp it and keep it a part of it's line-up is mind boggling? Instead they moved to the ugly beaked, pseudo-luxury, weak line-up of today.
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  #84  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:46 AM
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This whole thread sounds like a bunch of kids arguing who's better at what. This isn't going anywhere and let's not forget this is a BMW FORUM; presumedly populated by maniacal BMW fans/supporters.

If you want to rant about Acura, Lexus, Toyota or Mitsubishi (joke) superiority in the luxury market; GO TO THEIR "LUXURY LEATHER DASH" FORUMS!

p.s. BMWs are better! Lol
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  #85  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:49 AM
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I don't see how Hondas are more reliable than BMW.

I've had endless issues with Hondas which seem to be quite common when I do web research. Not to mention they have no sound isolation, no torque, no decent snow performance.
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  #86  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:34 AM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Interior Design

Interior design is to the taste of the individual. Hence I wanted to leave these right here.

Also straight from the marketing sections of Each Indvidual MFG.

3 vs IS





Lexus GS vs BMW 5





Lexus GS vs Lexus CT vs Toyota Camry XLE





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  #87  
Old 01-12-2013, 11:30 AM
RockChips RockChips is offline
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Originally Posted by Cdnrockies View Post
The NSX was gone 7 years ago. What is more amazing about the NSX is that it's life cycle was 15 years. How they didn't revamp it and keep it a part of it's line-up is mind boggling? Instead they moved to the ugly beaked, pseudo-luxury, weak line-up of today.
If you like the NSX, you might be interested in the next gen Corvette. Even the base Covrvette chassis will be aluminum / carbon fiber like the new Mclarens.

Even the current Corvette's chassis was noted to be already quite similar to the McLaren MP4-12C.
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  #88  
Old 01-12-2013, 11:53 AM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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If you like the NSX, you might be interested in the next gen Corvette. Even the base Covrvette chassis will be aluminum / carbon fiber like the new Mclarens.

Even the current Corvette's chassis was noted to be already quite similar to the McLaren MP4-12C
.
I would love to read the article on that. Most of what I have read poises the MP4-12 C to be surgically precise yet lacks the heart of a 458.

EDIT: Did you mean composition or the way the chassis performs on the road?
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Last edited by NoI4plz; 01-12-2013 at 03:14 PM.
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  #89  
Old 01-12-2013, 11:59 AM
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AutoUnion AutoUnion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoI4plz View Post
Interior design is to the taste of the individual. Hence I wanted to leave these right here.

Also straight from the marketing sections of Each Indvidual MFG.

3 vs IS





Lexus GS vs BMW 5





Lexus GS vs Lexus CT vs Toyota Camry XLE





This pictures just help my argument. The Lexus ones (IS vs F30 and GS vs F10) look significantly higher quality. I had an F30 loaner the other guy. It's a better interior than the E90, but that's not saying much. It's much more low-rent compared to the E70 and its competitors (Audi A4, Mercedes C Class). Lexus got the interior of the IS bang on. The black and red combo looks awesome. Shame the exterior is dreadful
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:02 PM
RockChips RockChips is offline
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Originally Posted by NoI4plz View Post
I would love to read the article on that. Most of what I have read poises the MP4-12 C to be surgically precise yet lacks the heart of a 458.

EDIT: Did you mean composition or the way the chassis performs on the road?
"We were struck by just how much the rolling chassis resembles that of the McLaren MP4-12C"

http://www.pistonheads.com/features/...?storyId=23703


Next gen Corvette with the aluminum and carbon fiber construction will be God-like.
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  #91  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:18 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Originally Posted by RockChips View Post
"We were struck by just how much the rolling chassis resembles that of the McLaren MP4-12C"

http://www.pistonheads.com/features/...?storyId=23703


Next gen Corvette with the aluminum and carbon fiber construction will be God-like.
Added to my reading list! Thanks
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Old 01-12-2013, 04:20 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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To each his or her own

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
This pictures just help my argument. The Lexus ones (IS vs F30 and GS vs F10) look significantly higher quality. I had an F30 loaner the other guy. It's a better interior than the E90, but that's not saying much. It's much more low-rent compared to the E70 and its competitors (Audi A4, Mercedes C Class). Lexus got the interior of the IS bang on. The black and red combo looks awesome. Shame the exterior is dreadful
To each his or her own.

You may like the stiched slush mold material combined with faux metal trim, but I like the neatly driver oriented dash of the BMW, with the grain of wood and hints of metal trim around the dash.

In the case of the IS, I LOVE the LFA inspired instrument cluster, however the rest of the cockpit reminds me of the cost cutting measures BMW took when desiginig the pre-lci X3 (e83). It also reminds me (if you memba) the Chevy LUMINA MPV from years ago. The x3 dash design was uncharateristic at the time, and well the lumina is no luxury vehicle, and its just a personal ref point.

To compare the F30 with say an X5 or any other higher or lower priced is litterally comparing apples to oranges (different vehicle r&d budgets). However you can if you want to, but then again you can also compare a Ghost to a Corolla and say Toyota did a horrible job
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  #93  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:23 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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+1

Acura as true luxury....lmao.

Come check out the CSX they offered up here....rebadged Civic....and not even slightly disguised.

MDX is the only decent vehicle that they offer.

FWD, V6, ugly beaked = pseudo-luxury.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdnrockies View Post
Acura is so late to the party that it hardly matters. How are they slowly getting there? Name one model that they have released that is a game changer or offers something truly competitive to the true luxury marques (ie. Audi/BMW/Mercedes/Lexus).



Haha.....disparaging the interior designs of the Japanese manufacturers compared to the German brands. What a joke.

Go have a peek at the newly released interior pics of the new IS compared to the F30 interior. Love or hate the exterior and controversial grill, the interior absolutely embarasses the Bimmer.



It's not odd, it's flat out ugly and something that their up and coming young designer should be banished from the car industry for. A failure of this epic proportion, that was supported by the executive, is inexcusable.



Please explain in what way Acura has shown that they are "taking the next step" or how we should "hope" that Acura is almost there?

Lexus may have been beige but they absolutely killed it in other areas, and are now showing that they can do it all. They led the way in service and reliablity, and delivered a level of refinement and luxury at a lower price point than the Germans. Acura has not shown that they can consistently deliver any of this, other than reliability.

Aside from the mythical NSX, they have nothing that can take them to the next level in their lineup. Even the NSX sounds like a fail if they bring it in the form they are discussing.



How are they in their adolescence? Acura had a chance to become a major player a decade ago and instead have come out with garbage that is pseudo-luxury and lacks any kind of performance.

So Im guessing, based on your criteria for differentiating pseudo-luxury from luxury, the new spindle design language on all the Lexus vehicles (RX, LX, GS, IS, LS, CT, HS) which is code for transplant the predator face on the front of all the models =ugly beak, V6, fwd on some models= pseudo luxury


Not to be a stickler for detail, but you asked "What vehicle could take Acura forward," and MY JOLLY GOD! What is this, you answered your own question the "MDX is the only decent vehicle that they offer."
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  #94  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:24 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Honestly I could sit here, behind my computer and gather statistics, data sets, reviews from A PLETHORA OF Automotive Journalists, however I don`t I need to do that. When it comes to Acura, its a luxury vehicle, yes its currently decideding where it needs and wants to go with their vehicles. They have had some good vehicles, like some have mentioned the previous RDX, current MDX (and whole lot out of production models). To be frank, I too judged Lexus as the Boring Beige Luxury marquee back in 04, however funny how 9 years laters Lexus is considered the E60 in Lexus clothing peferomance wise and it made an awesome supercar named the LFA. Just my 2 cents, but this debate on how Acura is pseudo-luxury can only be settled if we wait for what the future holds. I waited for the Lexus, and they didnt disappoint lol!

Back to regular programming on Bimmerfest lol!
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  #95  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:26 PM
NoI4plz NoI4plz is offline
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Originally Posted by Die Wolfe View Post
This whole thread sounds like a bunch of kids arguing who's better at what. This isn't going anywhere and let's not forget this is a BMW FORUM; presumedly populated by maniacal BMW fans/supporters.

If you want to rant about Acura, Lexus, Toyota or Mitsubishi (joke) superiority in the luxury market; GO TO THEIR "LUXURY LEATHER DASH" FORUMS!

p.s. BMWs are better! Lol


That probably is the best comment of 2013 thus far LOL


T
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  #96  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:43 PM
GoHawks63 GoHawks63 is offline
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Originally Posted by NoI4plz View Post
Honestly I could sit here, behind my computer and gather statistics, data sets, reviews from A PLETHORA OF Automotive Journalists, however I don`t I need to do that. When it comes to Acura, its a luxury vehicle, yes its currently decideding where it needs and wants to go with their vehicles. They have had some good vehicles, like some have mentioned the previous RDX, current MDX (and whole lot out of production models). To be frank, I too judged Lexus as the Boring Beige Luxury marquee back in 04, however funny how 9 years laters Lexus is considered the E60 in Lexus clothing peferomance wise and it made an awesome supercar named the LFA. Just my 2 cents, but this debate on how Acura is pseudo-luxury can only be settled if we wait for what the future holds. I waited for the Lexus, and they didnt disappoint lol!

Back to regular programming on Bimmerfest lol!
As a former Acura owner for 19 years until this year, I found this latest debate very amusing. As much as I loved all of my Acuras, they served me well and I thoroughly enjoyed each one for over 100k trouble free miles each, I do feel that Acura has lost it's way in the last 5-6 years. While I feel that they have a reliability record that the Germans should hope to someday achieve, they have a long road ahead of them to consider themselves on par with Lexus and the Germans.

Point of clarification, while AutoUnion has criticized Acura for for changing direction with the RDX, there have been several reviews and write-ups that have noted that despite the impressive performance of the 1st generation version, it never really achieved the sales numbers that they had hoped for. Their research showed that the buying public really didn't care for the turbo four and didn't quite understand the benefits of SH-AWD. As a result they replaced the T4 and SH-AWD, for their tried and true 3.5 V6 and a more conventional CUV FWD biased AWD system.

Essentially you might say they elected to abandon being brash and different for going a bit more mainstream. It might be unthinkable for BMW followers, but it is what it is.

In my opinion (which isn't worth much), as long as Acura is insistent on basing all of their models on FWD based platforms, they will never be considered in the same breath as the tier I luxury brands. As such they will have to be content with being the value luxury brand.

When my 2006 Acura RL was introduced in 2005, it beat many of the German brands. Yeah, I know AutoUnion will find ONE Fifth Gear episode that didn't like it, but I have found (and posted) several more reviews that proved opposite. That RL had a $50K MSRP and a comparably equipped 5 series would have cost over $10k more at the time. It offered a ton of value, but the issue was that it was still based on a FWD platform, and it couldn't be had in RWD.

In addition to refusing to ever offer a RWD model, their other mistake is refusing to offer a V8 model. Instead choosing to wring out as much as they can out of their V6 engines coupled to hybrid power-trains.

Maybe they will be ahead of the game since it seems most people are going that way, but I still think you need to offer halo models (read again: V8 and RWD).

AutoUnion made me chuckle earlier when he argued that the Lexus GS is not based on the Camry, but instead on the Avalon.

Well the Avalon is based on a stretched Camry platform, and both the Camry and Avalon are FWD cars, the GS is a RWD vehicle.

Having said all that, I do agree with him that Honda has to do a better job differentiating the Acura brand. They also need to fire their design team. Despite their attempt to soften the snaggle-tooth schnoz, it is still ugly. You have to wonder if Acura had any focus groups.

Despite the technology they are going to put in the upcoming RLX, the styling is still a yawner to me. In addition it will be a FWD model first, with hybrid AWD (SH-SH-AWD) as an option. Inexcusable while BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Audi still offer V8s and RWD in their flagship models.

I also feel like they have taken a step back in their interiors.

Acura was the first premium Asian brand, Lexus followed, but Lexus went a different route. They aimed at building a better Mercedes than Mercedes did for less money. Now they don't have to make concessions any more. They are considered one of the big boys.

Acura chose to be different. It worked for a while, but eventually got left behind.

They still offer nice cars with great reliability and good performance, but they will not be taking sales away from the Germans or Lexus in the foreseeable future.
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Last edited by GoHawks63; 01-12-2013 at 08:46 PM.
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  #97  
Old 01-12-2013, 08:49 PM
MRoaadster2000 MRoaadster2000 is offline
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What the heck is an "LCI Owner"?
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  #98  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:07 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Originally Posted by MRoaadster2000 View Post
What the heck is an "LCI Owner"?
I believe LCI is, in BMW-speak, a "Life Cycle Impulse," or, in English, the typical package of product improvements car companies do around the middle of a particular model design's life cycle to keep the sales going. Other people might refer to it as a "refreshening," or "Mid-Cycle Improvement," etc.
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  #99  
Old 01-12-2013, 10:09 PM
henrycyao henrycyao is offline
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Originally Posted by AutoUnion View Post
No, those are "cheap" cars and have low end interiors. I disagree on the 5 series. It has a very high quality interior. BMWs NEVER had high quality interiors, until very recently. Compare the E60 to the last gen Audi A6, etc. It was a step behind, but the driving dynamics made up for it. But now BMW is spending the $$$ to make their interiors competitive.
The 5 series needs more leather on the console to make it less industrial looking and warmer. I was surprised that it did not even offer Nappa leather on console as an option. That would have made the 5 series on the par with Jaguar. It was the only deficit I found vs. Jaugar. The rest is about on the par.

The E70 has only one advantage against 5 series. It had offer option to add leather on the console. After that, the rest looks about the same as 5 series with the newer update on the 5 series. That is what I refer to a better interior. Although, I did not get that option.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:37 PM
henrycyao henrycyao is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Die Wolfe View Post
This whole thread sounds like a bunch of kids arguing who's better at what. This isn't going anywhere and let's not forget this is a BMW FORUM; presumedly populated by maniacal BMW fans/supporters.

If you want to rant about Acura, Lexus, Toyota or Mitsubishi (joke) superiority in the luxury market; GO TO THEIR "LUXURY LEATHER DASH" FORUMS!

p.s. BMWs are better! Lol
Yes, lets all start bashing Porsche Cayenne with their leather dash consoles and complicated control. What is this? Cayenne is more sporty than BMW? No way, this can never be true. We have the X5M and 2014 is coming soon. Surely, that will kick some ass.
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