Amazed by the ' (un)reliability ' comments about this SUV.

Originally Posted by GoHawks63

Point of clarification, while AutoUnion has criticized Acura for for changing direction with the RDX, there have been several reviews and write-ups that have noted that despite the impressive performance of the 1st generation version, it never really achieved the sales numbers that they had hoped for. Their research showed that the buying public really didn't care for the turbo four and didn't quite understand the benefits of SH-AWD. As a result they replaced the T4 and SH-AWD, for their tried and true 3.5 V6 and a more conventional CUV FWD biased AWD system.

Acura has always prided themselves on their technology, yet give up their AWD system and T4 for a CRV based RDX? The new RDX is complete junk

Essentially you might say they elected to abandon being brash and different for going a bit more mainstream. It might be unthinkable for BMW followers, but it is what it is.

sounds like an excuse to me.

When my 2006 Acura RL was introduced in 2005, it beat many of the German brands. Yeah, I know AutoUnion will find ONE Fifth Gear episode that didn't like it, but I have found (and posted) several more reviews that proved opposite. That RL had a $50K MSRP and a comparably equipped 5 series would have cost over $10k more at the time. It offered a ton of value, but the issue was that it was still based on a FWD platform, and it couldn't be had in RWD.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up your beloved, golden RL. If I'm not mistaken, Acura kept selling that car unit MY12. In that time, everyone else had moved on to the next generation. Shame it was a snooze to look at and drive. Sure, the AWD system was trick, but it wasn't the correct car to put it in.

AutoUnion made me chuckle earlier when he argued that the Lexus GS is not based on the Camry, but instead on the Avalon.

Well the Avalon is based on a stretched Camry platform, and both the Camry and Avalon are FWD cars, the GS is a RWD vehicle.

You must need glasses. Lexus ES is based on Avalon. GS shares a RWD chassis with the little IS. No where did I say the GS and Camry/Avalon are related.

And Avalon is on its own platform, not shared with the Camry.

Despite the technology they are going to put in the upcoming RLX, the styling is still a yawner to me. In addition it will be a FWD model first, with hybrid AWD (SH-SH-AWD) as an option. Inexcusable while BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Audi still offer V8s and RWD in their flagship models.

This is where your credibility is gone. Audi does not have a single RWD car in its lineup (they will get RWD soon with Porsche shared platforms, but that's a diff't topic), yet they are still Tier #1. Why? advanced AWD, high quality interiors, class-leading technology, great driving dynamics, and great looks.

Originally Posted by NoI4plz

Honestly I could sit here, behind my computer and gather statistics, data sets, reviews from A PLETHORA OF Automotive Journalists, however I don`t I need to do that. When it comes to Acura, its a luxury vehicle, yes its currently decideding where it needs and wants to go with their vehicles. They have had some good vehicles, like some have mentioned the previous RDX, current MDX (and whole lot out of production models). To be frank, I too judged Lexus as the Boring Beige Luxury marquee back in 04, however funny how 9 years laters Lexus is considered the E60 in Lexus clothing peferomance wise and it made an awesome supercar named the LFA. Just my 2 cents, but this debate on how Acura is pseudo-luxury can only be settled if we wait for what the future holds. I waited for the Lexus, and they didnt disappoint lol!

Back to regular programming on Bimmerfest lol!

What I'm gathering from this thread is that Acura fans are stuck in the past. Obsessed with their old RL, NSX, etc and haven't made it back to 2013. Just because they made great cars when the brand came out doesn't mean they will do that again. Lexus has consistently made high end cars that have rivaled Mercedes, BMW, etc. They have NEVER sat around and languished.

Saab made a bunch of great cars in the past, tried competing with the big boys, then had a streak of crappy cars, look where they ended up.

Having one good car in the lineup (MDX) and ignoring the rest of the products is pretty damn pathetic because that means the management doesn't know what they're doing and the fanboys who buy them are delusional enough to buy anything with an Acura badge on it, even if it is complete crap

Why is Acura being given a free pass by the fanboys, while competition only seems to be getting better?

You really do come off a bit condescending....

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Acura has always prided themselves on their technology, yet give up their AWD system and T4 for a CRV based RDX? The new RDX is complete junk

sounds like an excuse to me.

Where in any of my posts did I imply that I agreed with Acura's approach. I am just stating what I have read.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up your beloved, golden RL. If I'm not mistaken, Acura kept selling that car unit MY12. In that time, everyone else had moved on to the next generation. Shame it was a snooze to look at and drive. Sure, the AWD system was trick, but it wasn't the correct car to put it in.

.

Again if you would would come down off your high horse and understand what I have said here and in the past, I actually agree with you for the most part. When the RL came out it was considered a very good car, beating out most of the Germans. I also have said in past posts that Acura let the car languish. It didn't take long for others to surpass it. As for stying, that is pretty much subjective, but I do agree that Acura and specifically the RL was a bit conservative, then again most flagship sedans are conservative. I don't think the Lexus LS is breaking any new styling ground.

If you thought the 1st and second 2nd gen RL were boring, I think the RLX will really put you to sleep, no matter how much technology they put into it.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

You must need glasses. Lexus ES is based on Avalon. GS shares a RWD chassis with the little IS. No where did I say the GS and Camry/Avalon are related.

And Avalon is on its own platform, not shared with the Camry.

I must have misread your post then because I thought you said the GS was based on the Avalon platform.

You see I can admit when I am wrong

BTW, the DNA still is traced back to a Camry as the Avalon is a stretched Camry platform.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

This is where your credibility is gone. Audi does not have a single RWD car in its lineup (they will get RWD soon with Porsche shared platforms, but that's a diff't topic), yet they are still Tier #1. Why? advanced AWD, high quality interiors, class-leading technology, great driving dynamics, and great looks.

You bring up a good point there, but I think most people view Audi as AWD first, FWD is more for the entry level (again my opinion) where Acura is still stuck on the FWD mindset from the outset.

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

What I'm gathering from this thread is that Acura fans are stuck in the past. Obsessed with their old RL, NSX, etc and haven't made it back to 2013. Just because they made great cars when the brand came out doesn't mean they will do that again. Lexus has consistently made high end cars that have rivaled Mercedes, BMW, etc. They have NEVER sat around and languished.

Saab made a bunch of great cars in the past, tried competing with the big boys, then had a streak of crappy cars, look where they ended up.

Having one good car in the lineup (MDX) and ignoring the rest of the products is pretty damn pathetic because that means the management doesn't know what they're doing and the fanboys who buy them are delusional enough to buy anything with an Acura badge on it, even if it is complete crap

Why is Acura being given a free pass by the fanboys, while competition only seems to be getting better?

If you're referring to me, again you're choosing to be argumentative.

Originally Posted by GoHawks63

As a former Acura owner for 19 years until this year, I found this latest debate very amusing. As much as I loved all of my Acuras, they served me well and I thoroughly enjoyed each one for over 100k trouble free miles each, I do feel that Acura has lost it's way in the last 5-6 years. While I feel that they have a reliability record that the Germans should hope to someday achieve, they have a long road ahead of them to consider themselves on par with Lexus and the Germans.
.

I think I was clear here and in previous posts that Acura has lost it's way. I have also said that I finally left because I didn't see anything exciting coming from the brand. This debate has also been had on Acurazine and there are many there, despite your predjuiced opinion, who understand where Acura ranks on the food chain. Many of those folks have different priorities (value, reliability) and put less emphasis on whether they are on par with BMW or Mercedes. That's OK if Acura wants to be the Japanese Volvo, but they also understand that if Acura truly wants to compete with BMW, MB and Lexus, they have to have a rebirth.

The only thing Acura has going for it is reliability over the other brands.

Originally Posted by GoHawks63

Acura was the first premium Asian brand, Lexus followed, but Lexus went a different route. They aimed at building a better Mercedes than Mercedes did for less money. Now they don't have to make concessions any more. They are considered one of the big boys.

Acura chose to be different. It worked for a while, but eventually got left behind.

They still offer nice cars with great reliability and good performance, but they will not be taking sales away from the Germans or Lexus in the foreseeable future.

Again, how can you accuse me of being a fanboy.

As a colleague once said to me, "we are in violent agreement".

I just choose not to be condescending in my opinions.

Originally Posted by NoI4plz

So Im guessing, based on your criteria for differentiating pseudo-luxury from luxury, the new spindle design language on all the Lexus vehicles (RX, LX, GS, IS, LS, CT, HS) which is code for transplant the predator face on the front of all the models =ugly beak, V6, fwd on some models= pseudo luxury


Not to be a stickler for detail, but you asked "What vehicle could take Acura forward," and MY JOLLY GOD! What is this, you answered your own question the "MDX is the only decent vehicle that they offer."

You really need to actually go out and experience some other vehicles as posting the marketing pictures doesn't tell you jack squat.

Your 3 series pic? Have you been in a 3 series with the "Modern" designation that you posted? If that is how you're going to define luxury there is absolutely nothing to talk about. Looked at it, sat in it, assured myself that I would never buy any BMW that looked remotely like it.

Acura ONLY offers V6 engines....NO V8's....NO RWD. Lexus offers all of this and more, so you're weak attempt at connecting the two is lame.

Know how I know you've not actually looked at the new Lexus'? The spindle grill is a general concept and not the exact same on every model. The grill on the new IS looks like the predator face and is ridiculous,imo....but the actual production version may or may not look exactly like that anyway. However, it does not look even remotely like that on the LS, RX F Sport or GS that I looked at yesterday. The CT barely looks like it. Acura used the exact same ugly grill on all of their cars.

And now you're going to suggest that Acura should go to the next level with their one decent vehicle? SMH. They've been there done that.

Convenient that you ignore that ACURA THEMSELVES has identified they are not Tier 1 luxury and are NOT going to try to be. Their goal is to be the leader of the Tier 2 luxury segment. Read the links I posted or do some actual homework. Your opinion that they could get there isn't going to influence the executive at Acura to change their mind.

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

You really need to actually go out and experience some other vehicles as posting the marketing pictures doesn't tell you jack squat.

Your 3 series pic? Have you been in a 3 series with the "Modern" designation that you posted? If that is how you're going to define luxury there is absolutely nothing to talk about. Looked at it, sat in it, assured myself that I would never buy any BMW that looked remotely like it.

Acura ONLY offers V6 engines....NO V8's....NO RWD. Lexus offers all of this and more, so you're weak attempt at connecting the two is lame.

Know how I know you've not actually looked at the new Lexus'? The spindle grill is a general concept and not the exact same on every model. The grill on the new IS looks like the predator face and is ridiculous,imo....but the actual production version may or may not look exactly like that anyway. However, it does not look even remotely like that on the LS, RX F Sport or GS that I looked at yesterday. The CT barely looks like it. Acura used the exact same ugly grill on all of their cars.

And now you're going to suggest that Acura should go to the next level with their one decent vehicle? SMH. They've been there done that.

Convenient that you ignore that ACURA THEMSELVES has identified they are not Tier 1 luxury and are NOT going to try to be. Their goal is to be the leader of the Tier 2 luxury segment. Read the links I posted or do some actual homework. Your opinion that they could get there isn't going to influence the executive at Acura to change their mind.

So after all this, I just have one question:

1) When are you trading in the terrible "NON-LUXURY LEATHER DASHed" 750 and X5 for the predator grilled RX and LS?

Since we got a bunch of Acura apologists here, here's the new MDX concept









Looks almost identical to the older one with a bunch of RDX cues. Pretty ugly.

Speaking of Acura, they just released pricing on the RLX. The eSH-AWD system has been delayed because of issues, but they're debuting the FWD model this year.



lol, ~$50k for a base FWD Accord?

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Since we got a bunch of Acura apologists here, here's the new MDX concept









Looks almost identical to the older one with a bunch of RDX cues. Pretty ugly.

I just saw the video of the unveiling in the Detroit Free Press and I agree that it seems more evolutionary than revolutionary, but then you can say that about the X5 over the years. I guess the mindset is to not mess with your bread and butter model.

The RLX is endemic of Acura's issues. There was a debate on Acurazine a while ago that if they are refusing to have a RWD platform, then the should have introduced the eSH-AWD model first and then introduced the entry level FWD model or at least both of them together.

The RLX will suffer the same fate as the previous versions of the RL. I don't care how much tech they put into it. It will be viewed as an upscale FWD sedan. It competes more with the Lexus ES, not the GS or the 5 series. Then again, isn't that what the TL is for (referring to competing with the ES)?

Just like Cadillac trying to say that the XTS is meant to compete with the 5 series and the E class, when it is essentially a dressed up Buick LaCrosse.

When the original NSX came out it was the test bed for technology that eventually trickled down to other models (VTEC, extensive use of aluminum, etc). I do think the 2nd gen RL kind of took that role for a very brief moment.

When it was introduced as a 2005 model in the fall of 2004 it highlighted the following features that didn't exist in other models:

SH-AWD
ACE construction
Adaptive headlights
Keyless entry and start
Aluminum suspension components
Carbon fiber driveshaft
Active Noise cancellation
Collision Mitigation (option)
Radar Cruise Control (option)

Now I'm not saying these features were first introduced by Honda/Acura, but the RL was the first car to have these features and some or most of these features eventually trickled down to lesser models. Since the NSX didn't exist, I speculate that they used the RL as their rolling test bed. The problem as has been discussed is that they let the car languish.

With the reintroduction of the NSX it relieves the RL of having to play that role, so then I don't understand why Acura is not building a true flagship sedan that will go after the Germans and Lexus. The RLX will not do it.

It doesn't even have looks going for it.

When I bought my Cadillac CTS Coupe I fell in love with the looks. Yeah there were other cars with maybe a bit more technology, or maybe a little quicker, but I loved how it looked.

The RLX doesn't even have that (for me).

I'm sure it will be reliable, but it just doesn't "move" me.

Pun intended.

A further point on the MDX. The previous models were only available in AWD trim. The newest model (like the RDX) can be had as a FWD model also.

Just reinforces that Acura has no intention of deviating from transverse mounted, front wheel drive platforms.

As such, they will never compete with the the Germans, Lexus and even Infiniti for that matter.

I guess that's OK if they want to be the Japanese Volvo as I called them before, but they need to stop marketing themselves as an alternative to those brands because no one is buying it (literally and figuratively).

The NSX on the other hand is flat out gorgeous (IMO). They should let those designers loose on the sedans.

Originally Posted by GoHawks63

The NSX on the other hand is flat out gorgeous (IMO). They should let those designers loose on the sedans.

Do you mean the NSX that's based off an Accord and has the same power train as the RLX/MDX? or the NSX that has an interior ripped off the LFA?

Acura

Originally Posted by AutoUnion

Do you mean the NSX that's based off an Accord and has the same power train as the RLX/MDX? or the NSX that has an interior ripped off the LFA?

Acura

Oy. I am not commenting whether the NSX is a legitimate supercar. I just think it's a damn nice looking design.

As for styling cues, I'm sure you can find many manufacturers that have take liberties with competitors designs.

Originally Posted by GoHawks63

Oy. I am not commenting whether the NSX is a legitimate supercar. I just think it's a damn nice looking design.

As for styling cues, I'm sure you can find many manufacturers that have take liberties with competitors designs.

just messing with you

the NSX is like the Duke Nukem Forever of cars

Originally Posted by NoI4plz

Haha, good one. I find the new Lexus grill design weird. I personally don't like the new Lexus designs. They have the same uniform designs across their model lineup except for their SUVs. I can't tell the ES, GS and LS apart in the road. Also, the tail lights look like the Hyundai Sonata.

It is not just Acura that has taken evolutionary approach to styles.

I have the same problem with BMW trying to make their sedan and SUV look a like. I wish they would invest more on different variety of designs. If the F15 photo is legit, the E70 and F15 does look fairly similar. Where as the Jeep GC actually looks quite different from previous model design. I actually like new style for the Jeep and it is dramatically different than previous generation (not referring to 2013 vs. 2014 but earlier one.)

Acura is changing to a different company. I am not sure the new direction will do them any favors. BMW is also changing. If rumors proves correct, the 1 series will have FWD. I definitely won't buy their 1 series.

So, back to the reliability topic on BMWs, as a soon-to-be new owner, I am not getting the warm and fuzzy about our decision to drop coin on a BMW.

I thought I did my due diligence and assumed quality based on German engineering. But, based on what I am reading on this forum, these cars are a joke from a quality and reliability perspective.

Plus, it seems like the service departments at dealers can't write up a service order for an amount less than $1K. WTF?

Little bit of buyers remorse creeping in I must admit.

For what it's worth, we bought our 2011 in September with 31k miles. It now has 38k miles and we haven't had any issues with it.

Originally Posted by sofa6A

So, back to the reliability topic on BMWs, as a soon-to-be new owner, I am not getting the warm and fuzzy about our decision to drop coin on a BMW.

I thought I did my due diligence and assumed quality based on German engineering. But, based on what I am reading on this forum, these cars are a joke from a quality and reliability perspective.

Plus, it seems like the service departments at dealers can't write up a service order for an amount less than $1K. WTF?

Little bit of buyers remorse creeping in I must admit.

I can't speak to the reliability of a BMW. My about to arrive X5 will be my first. But I will say internet msg boards bring out more people looking to solve issues than people logging in for the first time saying "hey my bimmer is the best car ever." I have owned two Audis over the last 8+ years. One was an Allroad which I drove for over 80,000 miles from new. The second was an 2012 S4. Both were great cars.The allorad had its two front suspension airbags replaced under warranty right around 50,000 miles. Other than that, neither were ever in the shop once for anything other than normal ongoing maintenance. ie oil, a new set of tires, and brake pads. Thats it. When I bought the allroad I had spent time on the audi forums reading up on it and I was horrified by all the problems. So much so I almost didn't buy the car. Turns out I got 100,000 trouble free miles out of two Audi samples. The guy I sold the allroad to has stayed in touch with me. He hasn't had a problem in the 20 months since he bought and its about to click over to 100K miles. So, who knows? obviously YMMV

I have a friend that has an 09 X5 diesel. He has put 75K on in 5 years and other than a couple recalls, it has been trouble free and he loves it. I live in a condo building and there are 5 X5's in my garage ranging from brand new to 6 years old. I have talked to all them and they all love their X5's. Not a complaint in the bunch. Age group is 35-70. Will mine be trouble free? I have no idea. I hope so. Its covered to 50K miles and its the last year of the platform so I think my chances are better than ok. If its a nightmare, I will sell before 4 years and 50K and reevaluate at that time whether or not I want to buy another BMW . Every manufacture has problem cars. My aunt LOVES Acura TL's. she leases them and is on her 7th. A couple of them have had a ton of work done under warranty and obviously no skin of her back b/c its a lease. I only mention that b/c Acura is one of the more "trouble free" brands.

I bought it because it fits my needs and with the AD was a blast to drive. It should be at the dealer by this weekend.

Good luck with yours!

Originally Posted by jonnyz1245

I can't speak to the reliability of a BMW. My about to arrive X5 will be my first. But I will say internet msg boards bring out more people looking to solve issues than people logging in for the first time saying "hey my bimmer is the best car ever." I have owned two Audis over the last 8+ years. One was an Allroad which I drove for over 80,000 miles from new. The second was an 2012 S4. Both were great cars.The allorad had its two front suspension airbags replaced under warranty right around 50,000 miles. Other than that, neither were ever in the shop once for anything other than normal ongoing maintenance. ie oil, a new set of tires, and brake pads. Thats it. When I bought the allroad I had spent time on the audi forums reading up on it and I was horrified by all the problems. So much so I almost didn't buy the car. Turns out I got 100,000 trouble free miles out of two Audi samples. The guy I sold the allroad to has stayed in touch with me. He hasn't had a problem in the 20 months since he bought and its about to click over to 100K miles. So, who knows? obviously YMMV

I have a friend that has an 09 X5 diesel. He has put 75K on in 5 years and other than a couple recalls, it has been trouble free and he loves it. I live in a condo building and there are 5 X5's in my garage ranging from brand new to 6 years old. I have talked to all them and they all love their X5's. Not a complaint in the bunch. Age group is 35-70. Will mine be trouble free? I have no idea. I hope so. Its covered to 50K miles and its the last year of the platform so I think my chances are better than ok. If its a nightmare, I will sell before 4 years and 50K and reevaluate at that time whether or not I want to buy another BMW . Every manufacture has problem cars. My aunt LOVES Acura TL's. she leases them and is on her 7th. A couple of them have had a ton of work done under warranty and obviously no skin of her back b/c its a lease. I only mention that b/c Acura is one of the more "trouble free" brands.

I bought it because it fits my needs and with the AD was a blast to drive. It should be at the dealer by this weekend.

Good luck with yours!

Great post dude. I agree with your observations in general. Message boards tend to amplify the experiences towards those who encounter issues and are seeking to remediate the problems vs. satisfied customers zipping through life in the fast lane.

I am looking forward to picking up our X5 in a month and hope we too will have a minimum of issues. Glad to hear you and GoHawks are enjoying your rides!

I have already posted my experiences with my 2010 X5 D. I am now down in Arizona for the winter months. My X5 sits in my garage in Minnesota with a battery tender and 52k miles. We now drive my wife's 2005 Acura MDX on our trips to Arizona. Cost of fuel is roughly the same. MDX has 67000 miles on it and has only had fluid changes as recommended. Still has the original brake pads which have approximately 10k miles before they need to be replaced. Car is far more reliable, dependable and just as comfortable as my X5 with the 20 way adjustable seats that are heated and cooled. I have been a avid BMW fan, 2007 X5 4.8, still own 2000 BMW M Roadster as my summer car (love it and do all my own maintenance).

Wait till your warranty is up and you bring your X5D in for your first paid oil change. My bill was $159 and my SR caught me on the way out the door to tell me that the bill was incorrect and should have been $170 so that is what I should expect next time, exclusive of the DEF refill, which would increase it to $320. When I asked him why so much for and oil change he said that there is just so much more they have to do on the diesels. So I called a Indy. They quoted me an oil change of $79 on a 2010 X5D, exclusive of the DEF. I added my own DEF for a cost of $21 from Fleet Farm. Took 15 minutes to pour it in the two fill ports for the two tanks. "So much more they have to do" is a bunch of diesel smoke up your tailpipe. I love my SR but the BMW dealers are scaring the diesel owners that these are very complex vehicles (which they are) which require so much more special treatment ( which they don't).

Looking at my service receipt I could no see any evidence of anything other than an oil and filter change for my $159.

My wife has her oil changed at the local Honda dealer for $29.99.

Nuf said. I have been a huge car guy my entire life and I love a great performance car. However, I want a vehicle that I can drive everyday and not worry about it leaving me stranded. I have own two very high performance supercharged Ford Cobras which would go like stink and yet you could drive them to the grocery store or anywhere else. Only problem I ever had was keeping rear tires on them, for some reason they experienced excessive tire wear.

My 2000 M Roadster is also a good example. Great performance and probably the most fun all around sports car I have ever owned. Totally reliable and well engineered. Everything works and no complaints. So it can be done.

Originally Posted by sofa6A

So, back to the reliability topic on BMWs, as a soon-to-be new owner, I am not getting the warm and fuzzy about our decision to drop coin on a BMW.

I thought I did my due diligence and assumed quality based on German engineering. But, based on what I am reading on this forum, these cars are a joke from a quality and reliability perspective.

Plus, it seems like the service departments at dealers can't write up a service order for an amount less than $1K. WTF?

Little bit of buyers remorse creeping in I must admit.

Dude relax.

You already have an Audi and a Dodge...you're not getting into any new territory, reliability wise...lol.

We've been very pleased with our 2012 X5d. My wife has put 30k on the car in 16 months. No real problems except one extra visit to the dealer to add more DEF fluid. Other than that its only been in the shop for routine maintenance.

I've had good luck with my 2003 M5 as well (I hesitate to say anything good about a car for fear of hexing myself).

Frankly, the worst car we've owned was a 2004 Toyota sienna (chronic alignment issues, replaced cat. converters, front door welds had to be redone...twice, replaced wheel hub assemblies, etc...). In addition I've owned 2 different range rovers and the Toyota was still the most repair prone.

Bottom line....a car is a machine and its going to break. Drive something you enjoy and elicits that great emotional thrill some of us get from driving. BMW's are great at baking that excitement into the cake.

Prior to the X5d purchase we drove the MDX and RX. They are great cars but felt sterile and disconnected (just my opinion). My wife agreed and liked the BMW much more as well. Thus we spent almost $10k more and didn't buy what consumer reports recommended. So far its worked out and my wife is happy. Whatever you do get a car that you enjoy driving.

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