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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 12-31-2012, 08:33 AM
amk42092 amk42092 is offline
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Shudder problem

So today while driving my 1995 525i started having a weird shudder when I gave it gas. Pretty much the whole car would shake, didn't matter what gear, and it even shuddered in neutrel when I gave it gas. Also, when idling the tachometer kept bouncing up and down between 500-1000. A moment later, a brief smell like burning rubber, then a strong smell of rotten eggs (catalytic coverter?). After the rotten eggs smell, the shudder went away and it drove smoothly for the rest of the ride. The whole incident lasted under 5 mins, any ideas

Thanks!
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2012, 08:37 AM
amk42092 amk42092 is offline
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Also, I might add I've been suspecting a small head gasket fracture leaking coolant into my combustion chamber
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  #3  
Old 12-31-2012, 08:42 AM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amk42092 View Post
So today while driving my 1995 525i started having a weird shudder when I gave it gas. Pretty much the whole car would shake, didn't matter what gear, and it even shuddered in neutrel when I gave it gas. Also, when idling the tachometer kept bouncing up and down between 500-1000. A moment later, a brief smell like burning rubber, then a strong smell of rotten eggs (catalytic coverter?). After the rotten eggs smell, the shudder went away and it drove smoothly for the rest of the ride. The whole incident lasted under 5 mins, any ideas

Thanks!
That's weird. Glad it is better now. I would suggest that you perform the stomp test (covered in my sticky at the top of the forum) to see if any error codes were stored. Based upon your description, there should be a code or two stored. Let us know the results and we will try to help you go from there.
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Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #4  
Old 12-31-2012, 09:18 AM
amk42092 amk42092 is offline
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Well, that's another thing, I can't get the stomp test to work. I've read the sticky's, googled it, even watched youtube videos and tried it dozens of times. But I can't for the life of me get it to flash the codes.
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  #5  
Old 12-31-2012, 09:26 AM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amk42092 View Post
Well, that's another thing, I can't get the stomp test to work. I've read the sticky's, googled it, even watched youtube videos and tried it dozens of times. But I can't for the life of me get it to flash the codes.
Wish I lived closer to you so I could give it a go for you. BTW, does the CEL light illuminate when you turn the key to position 2? It should. If it does not, then the bulb is either burned out or has been removed.

Could you make a video of your attempts to perform the stomp test? Perhaps we could spot an error if you are not doing it correctly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #6  
Old 12-31-2012, 10:00 AM
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supertech777 supertech777 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amk42092 View Post
So today while driving my 1995 525i started having a weird shudder when I gave it gas. Pretty much the whole car would shake, didn't matter what gear, and it even shuddered in neutrel when I gave it gas. Also, when idling the tachometer kept bouncing up and down between 500-1000. A moment later, a brief smell like burning rubber, then a strong smell of rotten eggs (catalytic coverter?). After the rotten eggs smell, the shudder went away and it drove smoothly for the rest of the ride. The whole incident lasted under 5 mins, any ideas

Thanks!
Hopefully the honey comb element in the cat converter is not breaking down and plugging up , but you said a burning rubber smell might be a pulley going bad or belt tensioner . I would check engine pulleys , I thought of this cause you said it shuddered in neutral too . Just a thought . Good luck

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  #7  
Old 12-31-2012, 10:31 AM
amk42092 amk42092 is offline
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Okay, here's the video of me trying the stomp test -



And I was thinking something with the cat too, but would that cause a shudder? It was definitly shuddering from the front/engine. It was a rather violent shuddering, too.
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  #8  
Old 12-31-2012, 10:41 AM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Thanks for the vid. That's exactly what we needed. I see the problem.

You are waiting too long to do the 5 stomps. Basically, you need to start the stomps about 1-2 seconds after you go to key position 2 (the manual says within 5 seconds if I remember correctly, but it usually works better if you do in within 1-2 seconds). The pace of your stomps in the first two tries was a good pace. Once you start doing the stomps within a second or two from the key 2 position, you should start receiving the codes.

You can post a vid of your results once you get it to work and we can help decipher the codes.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #9  
Old 12-31-2012, 10:53 AM
paperplane94 paperplane94 is offline
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^ +1

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...65#post5936965

good video in that link.
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  #10  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:13 AM
amk42092 amk42092 is offline
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Great! That did the trick. It just kept flashing 1444 - no fault codes stored. So, back to the drawing board!
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  #11  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by amk42092 View Post
Great! That did the trick. It just kept flashing 1444 - no fault codes stored. So, back to the drawing board!
Well, glad you're getting 1444, but you are no closer to figuring out what happened. Based on your description, it sounds like you had a misfire on one or two cylinders for some reason.

I would recommend checking your plugs, coils and injectors per the Bentley manual. Perhaps it's time for new plugs and/or coils.

Good luck. If it happens again, take the opportunity to do the stomp test at that time.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #12  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:49 AM
amk42092 amk42092 is offline
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The shuddering started again on my way to work. Not shuddering in idle when revved. Very violent shuddering in low RPMs, decreases past 3k, almost unnoticeable past 4k. Idling rough, once again bouncing between 500- 1000. No smells this time.
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  #13  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:50 AM
amk42092 amk42092 is offline
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Plugs are new.
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2012, 12:00 PM
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Check for vacuum leaks. The large air boot from the air filter box to the throttle body is a common culprit. Examine all vacuum lines and such very carefully. You can have the car at idle and spray carburetor cleaner on the suspect areas. If the engine idle suddenly goes up, then you have found an area of a vacuum leak.

You may also need to clean the idle control valve. That could explain the wandering idle, but not usually the shuddering effect you are getting.

Hope these suggestions are helpful.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold


Last edited by BMR_LVR; 12-31-2012 at 05:03 PM.
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  #15  
Old 12-31-2012, 04:51 PM
amk42092 amk42092 is offline
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The idle is fine up until the point the shuddering starts. Earlier when the shuddering started after it stopped, the rough idling stopped as well.
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  #16  
Old 12-31-2012, 05:18 PM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Automatic transmission in the car?

Sounds like a problem with the torque convertor lock up clutch to me.
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  #17  
Old 12-31-2012, 06:02 PM
bennyg1 bennyg1 is offline
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Fuel pump may be on its way out. Know this from experience in my 540. Started with shuddering, exacerbated by stuffed engine mounts. Engine was violently leaping side to side.

If this IS your issue a link will be fuel level: when full, gravity lessens the load on the pump, running the tank low will exacerbate all symptoms. If it is on its way out your next issues may be hard starting and/or failure to rev at high fuel load (like 5krpm full pedal) - before the pump dies totally. Fuel pressure may not be low if the pump is still intermittently working. Slapping the fuel tank may get it going again temporarily, did for me (mine finally died 500m short of the mech I was taking it to)

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  #18  
Old 12-31-2012, 07:20 PM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennyg1 View Post
Fuel pump may be on its way out. Know this from experience in my 540. Started with shuddering, exacerbated by stuffed engine mounts. Engine was violently leaping side to side.

If this IS your issue a link will be fuel level: when full, gravity lessens the load on the pump, running the tank low will exacerbate all symptoms. If it is on its way out your next issues may be hard starting and/or failure to rev at high fuel load (like 5krpm full pedal) - before the pump dies totally. Fuel pressure may not be low if the pump is still intermittently working. Slapping the fuel tank may get it going again temporarily, did for me (mine finally died 500m short of the mech I was taking it to)

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Good call on the fp Benny but it is not gravity but heat. A busted fuel pump overheats easily when not fully immersed in gas as in half tank or lower. Learned this the hard way by using a china pump for 30 days.

Op, you should be changing your fuel.pump, fuel pump relay, crankshaft sensor, eyeball your fusible link, change your thermostat, water pump and also check test and if necessary change the aux fans coolant temp sensor. You can skip if you have RELIABLE evidence they were done by the po in the past 4 years (except cooling system stuff). If not you will have no start and overheat problems one after the other over the next 2 years.

Last edited by robertobaggio20; 12-31-2012 at 07:21 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-31-2012, 07:32 PM
amk42092 amk42092 is offline
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Update!

Manual, not an automatic. F**k autos lol. Roberto- all that was done by the po less than 4 years ago. Aside from aux fans temp sensor, not sure about that one. Right now running on almost empty tank, will refill tomorrow and note symptom change if any.

New things noted: Apparently only starts once engine heats up. Small vibration when almost at operating temp, once fully warmed up, symptoms start. Shuddering on acceleration, rough idle. A slight shudder when revved in neutrel. Symptoms lessen as RPMs increase. When idling, exhaust is pulsating when I place my hand at the exhaust tips. A steady but somewhat rapid on/off bursts of exhaust. So, sounds like a fuel pump?
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  #20  
Old 12-31-2012, 08:32 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amk42092 View Post
Update!

Manual, not an automatic. F**k autos lol. Roberto- all that was done by the po less than 4 years ago. Aside from aux fans temp sensor, not sure about that one. Right now running on almost empty tank, will refill tomorrow and note symptom change if any.

New things noted: Apparently only starts once engine heats up. Small vibration when almost at operating temp, once fully warmed up, symptoms start. Shuddering on acceleration, rough idle. A slight shudder when revved in neutrel. Symptoms lessen as RPMs increase. When idling, exhaust is pulsating when I place my hand at the exhaust tips. A steady but somewhat rapid on/off bursts of exhaust. So, sounds like a fuel pump?
That sounds like a classic misfire of a cylinder. I'll said it again .... check your coils !! All you need is a digital multi meter and check the coils per the Bentley manual. It is very easy to do. Just remove the top engine covers and you have direct access to the coils. Pull each plug and check resistance at terminals 15 and 1 of the coil (obviously with the engine off). It should be 0.4 to 0.8.

I had one go bad on me recently and it did the same thing when the engine warmed up. Check the resistance of all of your coils when it is cold. Then, after it is fully warmed up and doing the shuddering, check each coil again. My bet is that one is failing once it gets warm.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold


Last edited by BMR_LVR; 12-31-2012 at 09:55 PM. Reason: corrected testing location (coil, not connector)
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  #21  
Old 12-31-2012, 09:17 PM
amk42092 amk42092 is offline
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Interesting, wouldn't that cause a misfire code and turn on the CEL? But I will check them tomorrow, thanks for the advice.
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  #22  
Old 12-31-2012, 09:29 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Interesting, wouldn't that cause a misfire code and turn on the CEL? But I will check them tomorrow, thanks for the advice.
It should ... but it doesn't always. Mine didn't because it is a 92 and the 3.1 DME doesn't have that feature, but your 3.3.1 DME does.

Anyway, I hope it is that simple for you. Good luck.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 200K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #23  
Old 12-31-2012, 09:32 PM
upallnight upallnight is offline
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Resistance test on the coil may not indicate a bad coil. The coil could be grounding internal with respect to the primary or secondary coil. On the portion of the coil that attaches to the spark plug, do a ohm reading. You should have infinite ohms or open. If you have o ohms your coil has a short.
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  #24  
Old 12-31-2012, 09:41 PM
robertobaggio20 robertobaggio20 is offline
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Vcg did you do this recently ? If not look at your spark plug wells may be full of oil. Double check that too. But this is unlikely to be the problem frankly as the problem only shows up when hot right ?

Anyways, always double check things.

Last edited by robertobaggio20; 12-31-2012 at 10:28 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-01-2013, 06:11 AM
snowsled7 snowsled7 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amk42092 View Post
Update!

Manual, not an automatic. F**k autos lol. Roberto- all that was done by the po less than 4 years ago. Aside from aux fans temp sensor, not sure about that one. Right now running on almost empty tank, will refill tomorrow and note symptom change if any.

New things noted: Apparently only starts once engine heats up. Small vibration when almost at operating temp, once fully warmed up, symptoms start. Shuddering on acceleration, rough idle. A slight shudder when revved in neutrel. Symptoms lessen as RPMs increase. When idling, exhaust is pulsating when I place my hand at the exhaust tips. A steady but somewhat rapid on/off bursts of exhaust. So, sounds like a fuel pump?
OK, ruled out a trans issue... I share your love of the auto trans

Sounds more like ignition than fuel to me but both are valid possibilities. The fuel system is less suseptible to heat issues than the ignition.
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