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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #176  
Old 01-06-2013, 06:21 PM
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Speak for yourself.

CA
Thanks CA. For a minute there I thought I was in an ATS forum.
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  #177  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:17 PM
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Thanks CA. For a minute there I thought I was in an ATS forum.
I drive on a track. It's called the canyons of Los Angeles. And I don't need a helmet.
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  #178  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:18 PM
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I know

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  #179  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:25 PM
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Speak for yourself.

CA
I speak for you too, my friend.

You hit the track, what, twice a year? Three times? No one realistically would think of the F30 as a track car, it's silly to talk about things that were borderline relevant in 1996 on an E36 as if its even relevant anymore.

I've got nothing against the "track" lifestyle or people want to drive aggressively on local streets. I just think the F30 is the wrong car for this talk. I mean, at what point do we get the hint from BMW that the 3 Series is the new 5 Series and they have a 1 Series and a Roadster for the aggressive stuff?

BJ
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  #180  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:45 PM
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My autox/track times in a fully loaded f30 with base suspension and non funflats were better than msport 135i, e90 335i (although his fastest time beat mine eventually) zhp 330i, evo x and even some e46 m3's. i am by no means a pro. But it says something about the f30.

I wouldnt be surprised if it is those same ppl with slower times saying that the f30 is soft and does not handle as well as previous models. Most ppl giving input wont be driving the car to its limits before giving an opinion (although there are plenty who can).
Yes this this exactly most people are taking about, the road feel and handling on public roads, albeit likely on twisties.

When the car is driven at or near the limit on the track, the feel is entirely different. You can have the F30 do better on the track than E90 or E46, but out on the twisties when you can drive at most 7/10 to 8/10 the limit, it may not feel as fun.

It is more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. I could feel the F30 328i go faster if I took it to autox, but it was not as fun than my E90 328i on the twisties. For one thing it did not have the smooth revving sound from the engine and intake, and steering feedback was tuned down. Even though the chassis was stiffer, the bigger size made it feel less nimble at the corners.

It was faster when I stepped on it, but it did not encourage me to rev above 4,000. But again, my idea of driving fun may be very different than the next guy.
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  #181  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by IndyMike View Post
Thanks CA. For a minute there I thought I was in an ATS forum.
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Originally Posted by EddieB View Post
I drive on a track. It's called the canyons of Los Angeles. And I don't need a helmet.
Thing is, continuing to put the 3 Series on the enthusiasts pedestal like in the old days makes the F30 look like it's not a good car. You look at threads like these and a few others, someone considering buying it might think there's something wrong with the handling, the steering, the power, its too heavy, its too big, its too soft, etc.

Take the F30 off the E36 pedestal, stop judging it by E36 standards, let the enthusiast population go to the 1 Series or Roadster, and quite quickly the F30 becomes one of the best cars BMW has produced.

The only thing "holding the F30 back" is this misperception of what it's supposed to be. Don't you think that after the E36 grew into the E46 and then the pudgy E90 and now the even bigger F30 that it's time to release the 3 Series from these bonds of judgement cast upon it 20 years ago when the car was an entirely different thing?

BJ
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  #182  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I speak for you too, my friend.

You hit the track, what, twice a year? Three times? No one realistically would think of the F30 as a track car, it's silly to talk about things that were borderline relevant in 1996 on an E36 as if its even relevant anymore.

I've got nothing against the "track" lifestyle or people want to drive aggressively on local streets. I just think the F30 is the wrong car for this talk. I mean, at what point do we get the hint from BMW that the 3 Series is the new 5 Series and they have a 1 Series and a Roadster for the aggressive stuff?

BJ
You do not speak for me, and have probably never driven on (or even been to) a track. I have access to dedicated track cars and as member of the Drivers Club at Lime Rock I get 60 track dates per year and am at the track most weekends during the season. I am very seriously considering purchasing a home directly across from the track.

I don't drive my BMWs on the track although the Club has M3s for track use. I never claimed that I thought the F30 was a track car (I don't) but was responding to your "nobody drives on a track" post.

I do not drive very aggressively on local streets.

CA
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  #183  
Old 01-06-2013, 08:58 PM
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I don't drive my BMWs on the track although the Club has M3s for track use. I never claimed that I thought the F30 was a track car (I don't) but was responding to your "nobody drives on a track" post.

I do not drive very aggressively on local streets.

CA
I was using the generic "no one", not the specific "no one".

Out of the 2,500,000 E9X's built they'd be lucky if 1,000 of them regularly found their way on the track. That's what I mean by "no one". It's not a significant enough population to factor into BMW's minds when they created the F30, so comparing skidpad data and tenths-of-a-second difference in 0-60 times is immaterial. That's what the OP meant when he started this thread. We're judging this edition of the 3 Series as if nothing has changed in the past 20 years. It has.

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  #184  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I was using the generic "no one", not the specific "no one".

Out of the 2,500,000 E9X's built they'd be lucky if 1,000 of them regularly found their way on the track. That's what I mean by "no one". It's not a significant enough population to factor into BMW's minds when they created the F30, so comparing skidpad data and tenths-of-a-second difference in 0-60 times is immaterial. That's what the OP meant when he started this thread. We're judging this edition of the 3 Series as if nothing has changed in the past 20 years. It has.

BJ
I don't have any specific figures but on days when one of the BMWCCA Chapters such as Patroon (Albany), Connecticut Valley or one of the others in the region hold an event at Lime Rock there are usually several hundred BMWs in attendance. These events also take place at other tracks throughout the country. Certainly a small percentage of BMW owners but still a relatively large number.

These are not timed events and allow limited passing. Most of the participants are there to learn how to handle their cars at speed in a controlled safe environment and to improve their driving skills. I know that since I started going to the track I am a much safer and more conservative driver on the street and have gotten myself out of more than one dangerous situation based on what I learned. Actually in the last 20 years the number (and percentage) of drivers that attend track events has increased, not decreased, as club like the BMWCCA and PCA, organizations like the Sports Car Driving Association, schools like Skip Barber and Bondurant and private clubs like Monticello Motorsports Club, New Jersey Motorsports Park and The Drivers Club at Lime Rock have made it much easier for the average person to get track access.

I do agree with you that lot of what I see posted in these "handling" threads is relatively irrelevant to the way most people are using their cars. You would be a perfect example. What ever advantage your M-Sport E90 may have had in performance was not worth the trade off to you in terms or harshness in ride and general discomfort. I felt the same way about my E93 and took a lot of flack from a lot of people here (including you) for daring to say that the Emperor had no clothes and the BMW has built a severely flawed car . You solved you issue by replacing the car and I solved mine by replacing the shocks and tires. You now have an issue with excessive body roll (which I do not) but I think you made a good decision in your F30 and wound up with a car that is far better suited to your needs.

Let's realistically look at what "Good Handling" means in a car that is going to be primarily used as basic transportation on local roads. Do we really want the car that can get around a race track the fastest with a pro driver at the wheel. Sure, why not if there are no negative trade offs. The problem is that there are negative trade offs and a race car for the street tends to be not very good as a race car and not very good as a street car. What I am looking for is a car that is responsive, feels planted, is confidence inspiring and responds well to driver inputs. With the present state of automotive technology that describes most modern cars. However differences in vehicle dynamics can be felt when you are well below the limits of the car. When we test drove E93s we drove a 328i with the standard suspension (Platinum Bronze, just like the one you had) and a 335i with the sport package. Both nice cars but the difference between them was very noticeable even in your new neighborhood (Route 17 in Ramsey, NY). We had a Mercedes E250 rental in Florida for 6 weeks. Nice car but neither Ms. Audio or I liked the steering feel compared to out BMWs or to our recently departed Jaguar in spite of the fact that the car was driven almost exclusively on perfectly straight roads (mostly I95) at very conservative speeds. We are back in Florida next week and this time we will have a Mercedes E Class. I was tempted to rent an E63 AMG but could not justify $2199/week. I may see if I can rent one for a few days. I will post my impressions.

Later this spring we are going to start looking for a replacment for the E93. We will probably test drive an F30, since the 4 Series will probably not be available yet and the F30 is as close as we will be able to come. We are also going to look at the 650 and the M6, and the Maserati Grand Cabrio. Both Ms, Audio and I loved the Jaguar XKR we had as a Florida car but it came off least last fall and we returned it. Since it is at the end of its model cycle we are not interested in getting another until the new model is released. We are also interested in the new Jaguar F Type but the lack of even a rudimentary back seat will probably be a deal breaker.

What we are looking for would be described as a GT car. A car with high performance, good style, a luxurious interior and a lot of creature comforts. I want Nav, Bluetooth, Climate Control, Memory Seats and all of those other luxury features. The way the car feels on the road, in spite of the fact that it will be driven well below its limits, is very important. I may take it on the track once or twice as I did with the E93, just to get a feel for the limits of the car, but it will not be used as a track car.

My most frequent drive is from Manhattan to Lime Rock which consists of driving on the Sawmill River Parkway, Route 684, Route 22 in NY and Routes 37, 39. 55 and 7 in Connecticut. There is probably no car available today that I could not easily get a speeding ticket in on those roads but the way my 335i feels, compared say to a Camry, is very different in spite of the fact that I may be driving at the same speed well below the limits of the car. If you understand what that difference is then you understand what I am talking about when I refer to "handling" as numbers only give you a part of the picture and a lot of it is subjective.

The next Lime Rock Club track event in January 19th and we will be driving on snow and ice (if the weather cooperates) I will probably take both the E93 and the 750 to get the feel of how it feels to slide the cars around on the ice. It will be a controlled, sage environment so I am not worried about damaging the cars.





CA
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Last edited by captainaudio; 01-07-2013 at 10:39 AM.
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  #185  
Old 01-06-2013, 11:20 PM
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Yes this this exactly most people are taking about, the road feel and handling on public roads, albeit likely on twisties.

When the car is driven at or near the limit on the track, the feel is entirely different. You can have the F30 do better on the track than E90 or E46, but out on the twisties when you can drive at most 7/10 to 8/10 the limit, it may not feel as fun.

It is more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow. I could feel the F30 328i go faster if I took it to autox, but it was not as fun than my E90 328i on the twisties. For one thing it did not have the smooth revving sound from the engine and intake, and steering feedback was tuned down. Even though the chassis was stiffer, the bigger size made it feel less nimble at the corners.

It was faster when I stepped on it, but it did not encourage me to rev above 4,000. But again, my idea of driving fun may be very different than the next guy.
Great response. I agree with most of what you have stated. I think ppl arent factoring in that street driving is not where the performance ends as you have stated. And to speak down on the car with only stop and go experience is unfair to the product.

I agree it is more fun to drive a slower car fast than a faster car slow. Isnt this a slow car already?! This car is a lot more fun than my previous car (400+/400+ to all four wheels). The car really feels a lot smaller than what it is. All the previous models probably felt that way too. So in a way, its doing what previous models have all done.

I have been keeping the revs up real high anytime ive gone out to events. No confidence loss. Itll hold. But im wondering if itll be quicker in the lower revs due to the low end torque.
On the otherhand, there was a mustang that day who throttled his way out of every turn. Not fast but probably fun as hell! Lol.

IMalibu canyon drives are fun but hairpin turns with one side being all wall with cops and idiots driving the other way arent THAT much fun. Id rather be at the track.
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  #186  
Old 01-07-2013, 07:01 AM
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Being one of the few who has spent time on track with a F30, both road course and autocross, and having a ton of seat time (both driving and instructing) in almost every previous generation of BMW (including track time in my X3!), I can say that the F30 more than holds its own on the track. Is it a "track car?" No of course not. But neither is any other stock BMW. Some models are oriented more towards spending time at the track, but even those have made compromises to render them livable on the street. Nobody wants to live with a true track car every day...

My personal observations of the F30 on the track vs e9x cars - in the F30 there is less understeer, it is more willing to rotate, the suspension is quicker to take a set at turn-in, lateral weight transfer is much quicker and more well controlled, and there is less body roll. The e9x cars feel much heavier and less happy being flung around. You really notice this difference during autocross! Plus unlike my e92 335i, my f30 328i did not overheat on the track! That was a huge bonus.

Those of you who say that most people won't take their cars to the track are absolutely correct. But everybody SHOULD go to at least one BMW CCA Driver's School. These cars are capable of so much more than people think...the only good place to find out what the cars can do is on the track.
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  #187  
Old 01-07-2013, 10:40 AM
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Being one of the few who has spent time on track with a F30, both road course and autocross, and having a ton of seat time (both driving and instructing) in almost every previous generation of BMW (including track time in my X3!), I can say that the F30 more than holds its own on the track. Is it a "track car?" No of course not. But neither is any other stock BMW. Some models are oriented more towards spending time at the track, but even those have made compromises to render them livable on the street. Nobody wants to live with a true track car every day...

My personal observations of the F30 on the track vs e9x cars - in the F30 there is less understeer, it is more willing to rotate, the suspension is quicker to take a set at turn-in, lateral weight transfer is much quicker and more well controlled, and there is less body roll. The e9x cars feel much heavier and less happy being flung around. You really notice this difference during autocross! Plus unlike my e92 335i, my f30 328i did not overheat on the track! That was a huge bonus.

Those of you who say that most people won't take their cars to the track are absolutely correct. But everybody SHOULD go to at least one BMW CCA Driver's School. These cars are capable of so much more than people think...the only good place to find out what the cars can do is on the track.
What is the configuration of the F30 that you take to the track?

CA
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  #188  
Old 01-07-2013, 04:21 PM
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I do agree with you that lot of what I see posted in these "handling" threads is relatively irrelevant to the way most people are using their cars. You would be a perfect example. What ever advantage your M-Sport E90 may have had in performance was not worth the trade off to you in terms or harshness in ride and general discomfort.

Let's realistically look at what "Good Handling" means in a car that is going to be primarily used as basic transportation on local roads. Do we really want the car that can get around a race track the fastest with a pro driver at the wheel. Sure, why not if there are no negative trade offs. The problem is that there are negative trade offs and a race car for the street tends to be not very good as a race car and not very good as a street car.

CA
Well said.

The dominance of "track data" in some threads being paramount to "road manners" is what concerns me because it paints the wrong picture about the F30. As stated earlier, holding the F30 accountable to E36 standards is completely unfair when we know full-well that BMW has made major changes in the past 20 years that stray from the "small and light" roadworthy track car it used to be.

Enough with the 0-60 times and braking distances and dimensions and Road & Track reviews. It is irrelevant.

BJ
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  #189  
Old 01-07-2013, 05:54 PM
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Well said.

The dominance of "track data" in some threads being paramount to "road manners" is what concerns me because it paints the wrong picture about the F30. As stated earlier, holding the F30 accountable to E36 standards is completely unfair when we know full-well that BMW has made major changes in the past 20 years that stray from the "small and light" roadworthy track car it used to be.

Enough with the 0-60 times and braking distances and dimensions and Road & Track reviews. It is irrelevant.

BJ
BMWs were always sold as road cars not track cars. They did not suddenly (or gradually) make a transition from race car to luxury car. The 3 Series has always been a balance between performance, practicality and comfort.

There is a definite correlation between the way a car behaves on the track and the way it feels on the road. Many BMW owners take their cars to the track and to autocross events but that is primarily for the purposes of improving their driving skills and learning the limits of the car. I don't think the majority of them think they are driving race cars. BMW cars have evolved but so has every other manufacturer. What has happened is that the 3 Series no longer holds as unique a place in the market as it did in the past as companies like Audi, Infiniti, Acura, Lexus and now Cadillac have introduced cars with driving dynamics that rival the 3 Series and have similar levels (and in some cases higher) levels of practicality, comfort and luxury. The 3 Series has evolved as has the rest of the market. The F30 is not a quantum leap. It is an evolution of the E90 as the E90 was an evolution of the E46 and it was a logical evolution as with modern technology there is no reason that a good handling car to have a harsh suspension. There is also no reason for a comfortable smooth riding car to have excessive body roll, poor road feel or numb steering. All of the cars in the segment have a good balance between performance and luxury and all of them can be optioned with the balance tipped more in one direction than the other. No manufacturer is going to be successful selling a car that has not evolved to what is expected in a modern vehicle. As innovative and as beloved as cars like the BMW 2002, the Camaro Z28, the Shelby GT350 and the Jaguar XKE were in their day they would be huge flops if they were sold today. Time marches on.

Road and Track reviews are not irrelevant and will probably never be irrelevant. Road and Track is not "Racer". Road and Track, Car and Driver and the other mainstream car mags are mass market magazines that review mass market cars and compare cars with the cars they will be cross shopped with and based on the way they fit the market they are being sold into. You will not see Road and Track doing an F30 vs Bentley Continental comparison or a Mini vs. Mercedes S Class comparison.

I have found reviews in these magazines to be very helpful tools when I am shopping for a car. The reviews will get me pointed in the right direction but I am not going to vote with my checkbook until I have driven a car myself and come to my own conclusions. Quite honestly if the magazines had universally panned the F30 (which they most certainly did not) I probably would not even bother test driving one. The fact that they all seemed to have a favorable impression of the Cadillac ATS would make me consider test driving one if I was shopping in that market segment.

CA
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  #190  
Old 01-07-2013, 09:43 PM
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After test driving the ATS 3.6, I had wished the F30 had the ATS's chassis tuning, it would have been perfect, it would have fit precisely what BJ is asking for too, a car that may not be faster on the track, but on the twisties, the car's handling encourages the driver to push it hard with confidence, sometimes even a little over-confidence, doing so all without a harsh and uncomfortable ride.
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  #191  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:41 AM
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What is the configuration of the F30 that you take to the track?

CA
I have driven two F30 328i's on the track -

1. A 2012 328i Sport with 6-speed, M Adaptive, Variable Sport Steering, and some other options not related to going fast. The only mod was a change to the front brake backing plates to TRY to get some cooling to the brakes.

2. A base model 328i automatic with no options. This was a customer car so I didn't really flog this one.
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  #192  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:54 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by White05X3 View Post
I have driven two F30 328i's on the track -

1. A 2012 328i Sport with 6-speed, M Adaptive, Variable Sport Steering, and some other options not related to going fast. The only mod was a change to the front brake backing plates to TRY to get some cooling to the brakes.

2. A base model 328i automatic with no options. This was a customer car so I didn't really flog this one.
How did they differ in terms of the way they drove?

CA
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  #193  
Old 01-08-2013, 07:13 AM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
BMWs were always sold as road cars not track cars. They did not suddenly (or gradually) make a transition from race car to luxury car. The 3 Series has always been a balance between performance, practicality and comfort.

There is a definite correlation between the way a car behaves on the track and the way it feels on the road. Many BMW owners take their cars to the track and to autocross events but that is primarily for the purposes of improving their driving skills and learning the limits of the car. I don't think the majority of them think they are driving race cars. BMW cars have evolved but so has every other manufacturer. What has happened is that the 3 Series no longer holds as unique a place in the market as it did in the past as companies like Audi, Infiniti, Acura, Lexus and now Cadillac have introduced cars with driving dynamics that rival the 3 Series and have similar levels (and in some cases higher) levels of practicality, comfort and luxury. The 3 Series has evolved as has the rest of the market. The F30 is not a quantum leap. It is an evolution of the E90 as the E90 was an evolution of the E46 and it was a logical evolution as with modern technology there is no reason that a good handling car to have a harsh suspension. There is also no reason for a comfortable smooth riding car to have excessive body roll, poor road feel or numb steering. All of the cars in the segment have a good balance between performance and luxury and all of them can be optioned with the balance tipped more in one direction than the other. No manufacturer is going to be successful selling a car that has not evolved to what is expected in a modern vehicle. As innovative and as beloved as cars like the BMW 2002, the Camaro Z28, the Shelby GT350 and the Jaguar XKE were in their day they would be huge flops if they were sold today. Time marches on.

Road and Track reviews are not irrelevant and will probably never be irrelevant. Road and Track is not "Racer". Road and Track, Car and Driver and the other mainstream car mags are mass market magazines that review mass market cars and compare cars with the cars they will be cross shopped with and based on the way they fit the market they are being sold into. You will not see Road and Track doing an F30 vs Bentley Continental comparison or a Mini vs. Mercedes S Class comparison.

I have found reviews in these magazines to be very helpful tools when I am shopping for a car. The reviews will get me pointed in the right direction but I am not going to vote with my checkbook until I have driven a car myself and come to my own conclusions. Quite honestly if the magazines had universally panned the F30 (which they most certainly did not) I probably would not even bother test driving one. The fact that they all seemed to have a favorable impression of the Cadillac ATS would make me consider test driving one if I was shopping in that market segment.

CA
Very well stated CA. Nice rational perspective. Thank you.
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  #194  
Old 01-08-2013, 08:22 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Very well stated CA. Nice rational perspective. Thank you.
Forgot to mention the Consumer Reports. BMW is aiming for those Camry and Accord drivers moving up, can't do it without mentioning the CR.

Last edited by dtc100; 01-08-2013 at 08:24 AM.
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  #195  
Old 01-08-2013, 09:56 AM
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I speak for you too, my friend.

You hit the track, what, twice a year? Three times? No one realistically would think of the F30 as a track car, it's silly to talk about things that were borderline relevant in 1996 on an E36 as if its even relevant anymore.

I've got nothing against the "track" lifestyle or people want to drive aggressively on local streets. I just think the F30 is the wrong car for this talk. I mean, at what point do we get the hint from BMW that the 3 Series is the new 5 Series and they have a 1 Series and a Roadster for the aggressive stuff?

BJ
Do you care if the inside of your exotic watch is a Swiss movement or some Chinese knockoff? Why, if you can't see the insides?

It's the same thing with cars, people want to know that their vehicle can drive the Nurburgring or cross the Sahara desert, even if they only drive it to the daycare center and the mall.
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  #196  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:21 AM
pkim1079 pkim1079 is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
You do not speak for me, and have probably never driven on (or even been to) a track. I have access to dedicated track cars and as member of the Drivers Club at Lime Rock I get 60 track dates per year and am at the track most weekends during the season. I am very seriously considering purchasing a home directly across from the track.

I don't drive my BMWs on the track although the Club has M3s for track use. I never claimed that I thought the F30 was a track car (I don't) but was responding to your "nobody drives on a track" post.

I do not drive very aggressively on local streets.

CA
60 track days a year AWESOME! I wish I had time / money for 60 track days in socal (all year). Have you considered trying the F30 out there just for ****s and giggles?
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  #197  
Old 01-08-2013, 10:31 AM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Do you care if the inside of your exotic watch is a Swiss movement or some Chinese knockoff? Why, if you can't see the insides?

It's the same thing with cars, people want to know that their vehicle can drive the Nurburgring or cross the Sahara desert, even if they only drive it to the daycare center and the mall.
Maybe the F30 is designed for those Camry and Accord family car drivers, who want to move up to the BMW badges, who are just happy with knock off Rolex watches.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is probably what BJ is really saying

BTW, I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

Last edited by dtc100; 01-08-2013 at 10:32 AM.
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  #198  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:09 AM
pkim1079 pkim1079 is offline
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Maybe the F30 is designed for those Camry and Accord family car drivers, who want to move up to the BMW badges, who are just happy with knock off Rolex watches.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is probably what BJ is really saying

BTW, I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
Fake rolex > Real seiko? I dont know. lol.
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  #199  
Old 01-08-2013, 11:15 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
60 track days a year AWESOME! I wish I had time / money for 60 track days in socal (all year). Have you considered trying the F30 out there just for ****s and giggles?
If I get an opportunity to drive an F30 on the track I would certainly take advantage of it.

BMW is the "official" car of Lime Rock Park and they provide the pace cars, safety cars and cars for the senior staff members to drive. The pace cars have traditionally been M5s and M3s. Last year one of the pace cars was a 5 Series which none of the pace car drivers seemed particularly impressed with as a track car. I am not sure what they will be using for the 2013 season.

I don't do 60 track day per year but they are available to me. I try to do as many as I can.

http://www.limerockclub.com/



CA
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Last edited by captainaudio; 01-08-2013 at 03:15 PM.
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  #200  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:14 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris90 View Post
Do you care if the inside of your exotic watch is a Swiss movement or some Chinese knockoff? Why, if you can't see the insides?

It's the same thing with cars, people want to know that their vehicle can drive the Nurburgring or cross the Sahara desert, even if they only drive it to the daycare center and the mall.
Yeah, well that's fine, we all get it. 3 Series can be driven on the track competently.

That box is checked off, we can move on now.

The issue isn't whether or not the F30 can be tracked; the issue is that it's being compared to older 3 Series that were more trackworthy when that's not the F30's primary purpose. Nothing negative should be said about the F30 and it's racing ability because it's not designed to be that anymore.

BJ
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