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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #201  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:16 PM
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volsfan0911 volsfan0911 is online now
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
The v6 Mustang had the shoes and suspension of the GT. The v6 is no longer a dog and is a 13 second car.

The Cobalt SS had the FWD record for the Ring for awhile and made its crank hp at the wheels.

Both cars not to be underestimated.
this + 1
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  #202  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:43 PM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Yeah, well that's fine, we all get it. 3 Series can be driven on the track competently.

That box is checked off, we can move on now.

The issue isn't whether or not the F30 can be tracked; the issue is that it's being compared to older 3 Series that were more trackworthy when that's not the F30's primary purpose. Nothing negative should be said about the F30 and it's racing ability because it's not designed to be that anymore.

BJ
The 3 Series was never designed to be a race car with the possible exception of the very first (very limited production) iteration of the M3. The 3 Series was always intended to be a passenger car that combined performance, convenience and day to day usability which it still is.

CA
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  #203  
Old 01-08-2013, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
The issue isn't whether or not the F30 can be tracked; the issue is that it's being compared to older 3 Series that were more trackworthy when that's not the F30's primary purpose. Nothing negative should be said about the F30 and it's racing ability because it's not designed to be that anymore.

BJ
I think it is designed for the track as much as ever. I haven't seen anything that says the F30 is less of a track car than any previous 3 series. Maybe you have to be more careful which options you get, but other than that . . .
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  #204  
Old 01-08-2013, 03:24 PM
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How did they differ in terms of the way they drove?

CA
Not surprisingly I preferred the 6-speed manual with sport package...The Sport car had a bit more grip thanks to the tires, and there was less body roll with the M Adaptive. I had no trouble keeping up with the A+ students in their track prepped cars, except that I was being very cautious under braking being on the stock (aka piss poor) pads.

But the base car was impressive in its own right. Very neutral, minimal roll and it never felt like it was on the bump stops. Even the automatic was usually in the right gear and quick to down shift when necessary. The base seats have less lateral support but are still fine.

What impresses me with this chassis is how well the understeer is contained. This is the most neutral BMW chassis I have driven in a while. The rear placement of the motor allows for super crisp turn-in and none of that pesky plowing if you over-cook corner entry. The chassis is just so well balanced it is amazing.
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  #205  
Old 01-08-2013, 03:35 PM
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What I really want to do is find a flood damaged car, strip it, put in a stand-alone ecu, a cage, suspension, brakes and make it into a club race car. In all sincerity I think the F30 328i platform would make an excellent club racer!
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  #206  
Old 01-08-2013, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
The v6 Mustang had the shoes and suspension of the GT. The v6 is no longer a dog and is a 13 second car.

The Cobalt SS had the FWD record for the Ring for awhile and made its crank hp at the wheels.

Both cars not to be underestimated.
+1. Good vids of a Cobalt SS on the track http://www.youtube.com/user/wangspeed
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  #207  
Old 01-09-2013, 12:49 AM
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I know i wont have to upgrade anything and itll perform well until i get to instructor driving level. With better tires than my current ventus it should be a tad better as well i dare say.

Can we say that the f30 handles like a 3 series should??

Great car regardless of how previous models did.
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  #208  
Old 07-25-2013, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
Bravo.

Keep in mind, 99% of those even mentioning disappointment in handling own E90's, haven't test-driven an F30, and are just parroting what they've read in enthusiast magazines.

The F30 is a fantastic handling car, responds to steering command with precision, sticks to the road like glue, shifts like smooth lightning, torque's like a rocket, and pushes no road bumps or pothole feedback to the driver. It's an amazing car.BJ
Since I own an E90 (with optional sports suspension) AND an F30 (with optional sports suspension), I think I am pretty well qualified to compare the vehicles. I have nothing against the F30's ride and yes, it is wonderfully quick and it has great torque.

It does not take speed bumps or potholes very well and, in fact, I drove over a speed bump yesterday in my F30 that I have driven over many times in my E90 (without slowing down at all) and I was stunned at how harsh the jolt was. I found the same result with potholes.

I prefer the road feel and handling of my E90 - in fact, the E90 is a significantly better "driver's car". I prefer virtually everything else about the F30.

So.....not everyone is blowing smoke. I have firsthand experience with both cars, although that will end shortly, as I have my E90 up for sale.

R
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  #209  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:06 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Since I own an E90 (with optional sports suspension) AND an F30 (with optional sports suspension), I think I am pretty well qualified to compare the vehicles. I have nothing against the F30's ride and yes, it is wonderfully quick and it has great torque.

It does not take speed bumps or potholes very well and, in fact, I drove over a speed bump yesterday in my F30 that I have driven over many times in my E90 (without slowing down at all) and I was stunned at how harsh the jolt was. I found the same result with potholes.

I prefer the road feel and handling of my E90 - in fact, the E90 is a significantly better "driver's car". I prefer virtually everything else about the F30.

So.....not everyone is blowing smoke. I have firsthand experience with both cars, although that will end shortly, as I have my E90 up for sale.

R
Thanks for your take. The famous term on this site of "pothole explosion" came about due to what many consider the overly harsh suspension of the E90 on rough roads and in particular sharp edged bumps in the road. If you live in the northern states with our horrible roads you know to what I refer. I'm surprised that you find the F30 worse in this regard. I have not read any other reports like yours. Goes to show how we all have different perceptions.
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  #210  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:09 PM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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Originally Posted by Michael Schott View Post
Thanks for your take. The famous term on this site of "pothole explosion" came about due to what many consider the overly harsh suspension of the E90 on rough roads and in particular sharp edged bumps in the road. If you live in the northern states with our horrible roads you know to what I refer. I'm surprised that you find the F30 worse in this regard. I have not read any other reports like yours. Goes to show how we all have different perceptions.
It has a lot to do with tires. I remember asking RobertaZ how each car was equipped when statements about brakes etc seemed to highlight the E90 was on a different tire type than the F30.
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  #211  
Old 07-25-2013, 06:04 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
It has a lot to do with tires. I remember asking RobertaZ how each car was equipped when statements about brakes etc seemed to highlight the E90 was on a different tire type than the F30.
Thanks. It would be good to know what she is running. Also, thanks for your post of the track experience in the R & T thread.
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  #212  
Old 07-25-2013, 09:22 PM
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Thanks. It would be good to know what she is running. Also, thanks for your post of the track experience in the R & T thread.
The F30 has P225/45R18 Cinturato all season run-flat tires with 2,400 miles on them and the E90 has 205/55R16 summer tires that have been driven for 65,000 miles and have very little tread left. The E90 still handles better despite the threadbare tires!

R
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  #213  
Old 07-25-2013, 10:48 PM
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Runflats are much harsher so it may not be the car. Runflats do not like bumps at all.

Put runflats on the e90 and it will be the same thing.

Everyone knows the chassis on the f30 is a lot more rigid than the e90 right? The car should be much more dialed in. Maybe not stock but put some perf mods and it will be much better than the e90.
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  #214  
Old 07-25-2013, 10:48 PM
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Handling is one of those words that has many meanings.

Criticism by professionals that I've read is that the F30 doesn't have any steering feel. That's very different from saying the handling isn't good, or from saying the steering isn't accurate or fine. It can be very good and accurate despite no feel.
I think we can agree on this statement. I believe the lively debate we are having here and in other threads is whether the distinctive steering feel (or lack thereof in the F30) is what defines BMW. For some it's a resounding yes (including yours truly) while for the others it's just a progress and evolution of the brand. Despite how artificial it may feel, I am not questioning whether the steering is accurate (because it is very accurate).


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The 3 series with each generation outhandles the previous one, my E46 would I'm sure be faster around a tight road coarse than my E36, just due to more modern suspension design and tighter body stiffness. I've no doubt the F30 is the same, especially with the lighter 4 cylinder up front.
That has been true for all the successive generations of the 3-series. I am not sure if the F30 does go faster though; it may very well go faster, but I just haven't seen any side-by-side track #'s either way.

But, it's not (just) about how fast it can go around a track, but how it goes about it. If I wanted a stupid fast car for as little money as possible, BMW isn't very high on my list. It's about that special feel, that distinctive BMW'ness that justifies the price premium over the other cars. The question really is how the F30 retained that characteristic, and the answer is very subjective as demonstrated by so many opinions expressed here.


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Top Gear just wrote that the M135i is a better sports car than the new Boxster, despite having zero steering feel. That says a lot, I think.
With all due respect, I never considered Top Gear true automotive journalism. It's entertaining, but way too biased (especially Mr. Clarkson) even when it's praising cars I like.

In this case, I respectfully disagree with Top Gear. I'll take the new Boxster/Cayman over the M135i any day of the week.
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  #215  
Old 07-26-2013, 05:24 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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That has been true for all the successive generations of the 3-series. I am not sure if the F30 does go faster though; it may very well go faster, but I just haven't seen any side-by-side track #'s either way.
It's too early to know, but the F30 MIGHT be faster around the track.

Lightning Lap, previous year had an E92is, the top performing E9x with the fast shifting DCT did it in 3.13.8

Last year, an F30 with an 8spd auto, no MSport package with the better brakes, no MP brake kit, NO MP PPK, NO MP suspension, did it in 3.13.2

Now, I know about different drivers, different days, hard to compare, all of that. But it is indicative that the F30 should be very competitive with previous offerings. Now that BMW is sending out loaded MSports with PPK, brakes etc-we will likely see them send out a loaded up F32 435 for the next Lightning Lap.
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  #216  
Old 07-26-2013, 06:16 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by Jamesonsviggen View Post
It's too early to know, but the F30 MIGHT be faster around the track.

Lightning Lap, previous year had an E92is, the top performing E9x with the fast shifting DCT did it in 3.13.8

Last year, an F30 with an 8spd auto, no MSport package with the better brakes, no MP brake kit, NO MP PPK, NO MP suspension, did it in 3.13.2

Now, I know about different drivers, different days, hard to compare, all of that. But it is indicative that the F30 should be very competitive with previous offerings. Now that BMW is sending out loaded MSports with PPK, brakes etc-we will likely see them send out a loaded up F32 435 for the next Lightning Lap.
I am not saying the E90 would be faster but the Lightning Lap for a 2007 E92 was 3:10.5. Also, there are some noticeable differences between the F30 and F32 in suspension setups and other factors that are not present between the E90 and E92.
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  #217  
Old 07-26-2013, 06:22 AM
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I think we can agree on this statement. I believe the lively debate we are having here and in other threads is whether the distinctive steering feel (or lack thereof in the F30) is what defines BMW. For some it's a resounding yes (including yours truly) while for the others it's just a progress and evolution of the brand. Despite how artificial it may feel, I am not questioning whether the steering is accurate (because it is very accurate).




That has been true for all the successive generations of the 3-series. I am not sure if the F30 does go faster though; it may very well go faster, but I just haven't seen any side-by-side track #'s either way.

But, it's not (just) about how fast it can go around a track, but how it goes about it. If I wanted a stupid fast car for as little money as possible, BMW isn't very high on my list. It's about that special feel, that distinctive BMW'ness that justifies the price premium over the other cars. The question really is how the F30 retained that characteristic, and the answer is very subjective as demonstrated by so many opinions expressed here.




With all due respect, I never considered Top Gear true automotive journalism. It's entertaining, but way too biased (especially Mr. Clarkson) even when it's praising cars I like.

In this case, I respectfully disagree with Top Gear. I'll take the new Boxster/Cayman over the M135i any day of the week.

If the new M135i is better than the new Boxster/Cayman S, then it must be one hell of a great car.
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  #218  
Old 07-26-2013, 06:55 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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If the new M135i is better than the new Boxster/Cayman S, then it must be one hell of a great car.
I highly doubt it. There is an Autocar review where it got beat by the A45AMG and if money was an issue IIRC they said they would take the new GTI over it.
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  #219  
Old 07-26-2013, 07:03 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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I am not saying the E90 would be faster but the Lightning Lap for a 2007 E92 was 3:10.5. Also, there are some noticeable differences between the F30 and F32 in suspension setups and other factors that are not present between the E90 and E92.
Again, goes back to the point of all the variables. Why would the '07 car be 3 seconds faster than the '12 with more power and other IS goodies? Anyone who watched the F30 lap saw how it was not exactly driven to it's potential either. Might be true with the E92is as well.

Point is, there is no reason that indicates the F30 is going to be slower, when we are comparing it to coupes like the top of the range IS.

The F32, let's not get too caught up in the BMW marketing that it is that different from the F30 suspension tuning. They are going to say whatever they can to justify the 4 series moniker to distance themselves from the 3 series. If all of us drive the 4 and it DOES what they say and really feel THAT different than the 3, great. But let's not just by their marketing and assume it's so.
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  #220  
Old 07-26-2013, 07:06 AM
Jamesonsviggen Jamesonsviggen is offline
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If the new M135i is better than the new Boxster/Cayman S, then it must be one hell of a great car.
I highly doubt it, the open diff, HUNDREDS of pounds of extra weight, EPS that is not nailed down like Porsche's version etc etc.
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  #221  
Old 07-26-2013, 07:25 AM
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I highly doubt it, the open diff, HUNDREDS of pounds of extra weight, EPS that is not nailed down like Porsche's version etc etc.
My P car is back in the shop because it is intermittently starving for fuel and not throwing any codes. They have their best mechanic on it today, so hopefully I'm back on the road this weekend.

In the mean time, I have the Panamera back. I don't like the looks but it is one really fun sedan to drive.

I also drove a Porsche Cayenne diesel yesterday. I've never driven a Cayenne before and was considering it as a replacement for my Tahoe next year. But, it did not feel Porsche like to me, even considering it's an SUV. The electronic steering in the Panamera is as excellent as the steering in the Cayenne is bad. I felt like I was driving a Lexus. The brakes were just OK, the car felt light and not stable on the back twisties. Really nothing special here at all. I was disappointed. They want me to try a Cayenne GTS today to see if it feels different, but the sticker is too high for me to be interested.

So far, the Land Rover is the leader in my road test trials in search of the perfect SUV that will serve as a utility vehicle and highway cruiser. Loaded it's around $62,000.
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  #222  
Old 07-26-2013, 08:06 AM
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My P car is back in the shop because it is intermittently starving for fuel and not throwing any codes. They have their best mechanic on it today, so hopefully I'm back on the road this weekend.

In the mean time, I have the Panamera back. I don't like the looks but it is one really fun sedan to drive.

I also drove a Porsche Cayenne diesel yesterday. I've never driven a Cayenne before and was considering it as a replacement for my Tahoe next year. But, it did not feel Porsche like to me, even considering it's an SUV. The electronic steering in the Panamera is as excellent as the steering in the Cayenne is bad. I felt like I was driving a Lexus. The brakes were just OK, the car felt light and not stable on the back twisties. Really nothing special here at all. I was disappointed. They want me to try a Cayenne GTS today to see if it feels different, but the sticker is too high for me to be interested.

So far, the Land Rover is the leader in my road test trials in search of the perfect SUV that will serve as a utility vehicle and highway cruiser. Loaded it's around $62,000.
Not a fan of SUVs, but there is one that i like a lot for some reason. Not nearly on the same level as Cayenne or Land Rover. Have you looked at Toyota FJ Cruiser? I beleive it shares a lot with 4Runner. I drove FJ maybe 5 years ago or so, had a nice ride for a heavy truck.
Something about it's ugliness just makes it attractive, IMO.
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  #223  
Old 07-26-2013, 08:10 AM
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The F30 may not handle with the same level of feel as previous 3's... And I'm not arguing that, as I'm certainly no BMW expert. This is my first 3 (sportline), and I haven't spent enough time with previous 3's to really have an opinion one way or another.)
Just cause the car is better than the other trash vehicles does not make what they did excusable. The fact is, I now have to pay extra to get what was previously included.
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I started to google to find a picture to match furby's suggestion to Gia, but it quickly became clear it was an inappropriate search to conduct at work.
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Old 07-26-2013, 08:16 AM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by PK2348 View Post
Not a fan of SUVs, but there is one that i like a lot for some reason. Not nearly on the same level as Cayenne or Land Rover. Have you looked at Toyota FJ Cruiser? I beleive it shares a lot with 4Runner. I drove FJ maybe 5 years ago or so, had a nice ride for a heavy truck.
Something about it's ugliness just makes it attractive, IMO.
I drove an FJ Cruiser about the time it came out. I think it is a fun vehicle but there are way too many blind spots to drive safely, IMO. I thought I read that Toyota was cancelling the FJ?
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  #225  
Old 07-26-2013, 08:17 AM
beden1's Avatar
beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by furby076 View Post
Just cause the car is better than the other trash vehicles does not make what they did excusable. The fact is, I now have to pay extra to get what was previously included.
Sign of the times my friend. Pay more for less. Even goat feed continues to go up in price.
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Favorite Cars Gone But Not Forgotten:
'09 Corvette ZO6; '04 MB S600; '01 BMW 740iL; '01 Corvette; '90 Nissan 300ZX 2+2; '89 Jeep Grand Wagoneer; '79 BMW 320i; '79 MB 300D; '71 Pontiac Firebird Formula 400; '67 MG Midget
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