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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #26  
Old 01-05-2013, 09:00 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by drewski554 View Post
For some reason, I can't get my head around the twin turbo. I don't like turbo at all. Also, I'm buying a certified used 328i because I can't afford to shell out for repairs after I spend all my money on modifications. And to be completely honest, I'd want to spend the same amount of $$$ on 335i modifications, so I might as well stick to the more reliable, better MPG, less expensive car. I will be very content with the 328i; I don't want more power than that!!! Thanks for all the advice though, guys. I do get where you're coming from, just not ideal for me (yet).

Well, drewski, prepare for perhaps the steepest depreciation cliff in all of autodom: Extensive 328i modification.

You'll lose big bucks on this baby, as water flows through a sieve. Cash is reasonably important to you -- shouldn't you re-evaluate your buying decision?

Japanese is where you want to be. Sure, stock rides are middling, but that's what the white hot Civic mod market's all about!

Lightened and modded, that rice rocket shames a 3. Embarrasses. Puts to rights.

Video you should watch: Fast & Furious
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  #27  
Old 01-05-2013, 06:41 PM
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drewski554 With all due respect I don't think you have a clue about the cost & effect of performance cost options on different 3 series platforms. Example, you could dump many thousands of dollars into a 328 & still be below the basic performance level of a pure stock 335. You could put $1K or so into a 335 & out run a V8 in M3 is a straight line. You could put about $10K into the M3 to outrun the moded 335 is a straight line.

Suspension mods are a whole 'nother world on top of the basic quicken the car up with M3 pieces being at the top of the food chain. Also you have to pay to play you mod a car & you increase a cars potential for mechanical failure. You mod a car & you tank resale value. Finally if you think you can really increase performance & MPG at the same time its back to square 1 on the learning curve.

You want to play & not get killed in the bank account take the advice & take the rice rocket Civic approach or get a 6MT 328 & leave it alone for a very nice, quick, economical ride.
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  #28  
Old 01-05-2013, 06:56 PM
kmorgan_260 kmorgan_260 is offline
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Why not buy an M3 if you are going to drop that much money on mods?
+1
The M3 is essentially the 3 series modded to the max by BMW engineers who know the car better than anyone else. And you actually get a warranty!
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  #29  
Old 01-05-2013, 07:21 PM
drewski554 drewski554 is offline
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Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
drewski554 With all due respect I don't think you have a clue about the cost & effect of performance cost options on different 3 series platforms. Example, you could dump many thousands of dollars into a 328 & still be below the basic performance level of a pure stock 335. You could put $1K or so into a 335 & out run a V8 in M3 is a straight line. You could put about $10K into the M3 to outrun the moded 335 is a straight line.

Suspension mods are a whole 'nother world on top of the basic quicken the car up with M3 pieces being at the top of the food chain. Also you have to pay to play you mod a car & you increase a cars potential for mechanical failure. You mod a car & you tank resale value. Finally if you think you can really increase performance & MPG at the same time its back to square 1 on the learning curve.

You want to play & not get killed in the bank account take the advice & take the rice rocket Civic approach or get a 6MT 328 & leave it alone for a very nice, quick, economical ride.
I'm dumping thousands of dollars into COSMETICS (for the most part). You might be able to convince me to buy a 335i/M3 if I was dropping my $$$ on PERFORMANCE (for the most part), but I'm not. I care more about the look and sound of my car than the power it delivers at the wheels. I also refuse to drive a car with less than 25MPG. My career has to do with the environment, and buying an M3 would defy everything I work for.

I don't see how BMW performance intake & custom exhaust will make my car less reliable. Also, it seems that YOU might need to start back at stage 1 if you don't think I can simultaneously increase MPG while increasing horsepower. Exhaust, intake, and performance chip ALL increase both -- there is no refuting this fact, sorry.

That's two shots right there -- I'll call it a day right there until you bring a substantial and convincing claim to the table.
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  #30  
Old 01-05-2013, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by drewski554 View Post
I'm dumping thousands of dollars into COSMETICS (for the most part). You might be able to convince me to buy a 335i/M3 if I was dropping my $$$ on PERFORMANCE (for the most part), but I'm not. I care more about the look and sound of my car than the power it delivers at the wheels. I also refuse to drive a car with less than 25MPG. My career has to do with the environment, and buying an M3 would defy everything I work for.

I don't see how BMW performance intake & custom exhaust will make my car less reliable. Also, it seems that YOU might need to start back at stage 1 if you don't think I can simultaneously increase MPG while increasing horsepower. Exhaust, intake, and performance chip ALL increase both -- there is no refuting this fact, sorry.

That's two shots right there -- I'll call it a day right there until you bring a substantial and convincing claim to the table.

Say, drewski....have you evaluated what carbon footprint those 'cosmetic' mods generate? The energy consumption.....to make, transport, advertise; sell....and what about collateral damage?

Those sales people burnin' up the highways hawking their 'cosmetic' wares? Their expense accounts know no bounds....do you know what an environmental disaster restaurants are? Additional vehicles on the road? Pollution from manufacturing the parts alone'll kill ya!

AND....Gosh-a-mighty, man! No self-respecting Green-Jobber would be caught w/o a hybrid, and a hybrid with minimum impact on Spaceship Earth, t'boot.

Better: All electric vehicle.

At this point you should be re-evaluating every action in your life. How can you possibly call yourself an environmentalist?

Take a year to reinvent your very existence, drewski. Buy no new clothes and eat no meat. Give your possessions to charity. Take a vow of poverty. The Force is with you, young drewski, but you are not a Jedi yet!



Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 01-05-2013 at 08:51 PM.
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  #31  
Old 01-05-2013, 08:45 PM
drewski554 drewski554 is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Say, drewski....have you evaluated what carbon footprint all those 'cosmetic' mods'll generate? The energy consumption.....to make, transport, advertise; sell....and what about collateral damage?

Those sales people burnin' up the highways hawking their 'cosmetic' wares? Their expense accounts know no bounds....do you know what an environmental disaster restaurants are? Additional vehicles on the road? Pollution from manufacturing the parts alone'll kill ya!

AND....Gosh-a-mighty, man! No self-respecting Green-Jobber would be caught w/o a hybrid, and a hybrid with minimum impact on Spaceship Earth, t'boot.

Better: All electric vehicle.

At this point you should be re-evaluating every action in your life. How can you possibly call yourself an environmentalist?

Take a year to reinvent your very existence, drewski. Buy no new clothes and eat no meat. Give up your possessions - take a vow of poverty. You are not a Jedi yet!
I'm not an extremist, just someone who's conscientious of our less-than-stellar current environmental condition that also happens to enjoy helping develop alternative fuel sources. Nothing wrong with that. Buying a Prius is just as bad as buying a 328i; the parts are all coming from China, which is consuming significantly more oil each year. Driving a Prius or a Hummer would make no impact to the world in the grand scheme of things; it's going to take a lot more than electric cars to eliminate our carbon footprint.

I never referred to myself as an 'environmentalist'. I just happen to have a job working with clean energy, and my employer would not be impressed if I showed up with a 14MPG M3.
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  #32  
Old 01-05-2013, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by drewski554 View Post
I'm dumping thousands of dollars into COSMETICS (for the most part). You might be able to convince me to buy a 335i/M3 if I was dropping my $$$ on PERFORMANCE (for the most part), but I'm not. I care more about the look and sound of my car than the power it delivers at the wheels. I also refuse to drive a car with less than 25MPG. My career has to do with the environment, and buying an M3 would defy everything I work for.

I don't see how BMW performance intake & custom exhaust will make my car less reliable. Also, it seems that YOU might need to start back at stage 1 if you don't think I can simultaneously increase MPG while increasing horsepower. Exhaust, intake, and performance chip ALL increase both -- there is no refuting this fact, sorry.

That's two shots right there -- I'll call it a day right there until you bring a substantial and convincing claim to the table.
I am not trying to convince you to buy anything I have both a 330 and 335. They are both good at what they do. I could care less what you do with big bucks in cosmetics because cosmetics are a personal thing & I have yet to see one major makeover that I would want for myself. Be interesting to see how you make out with them.

You said you want to improve both horsepower & MPG so despite your claim your about your interest in cosmetics you are still spending money on performance parts which is what I was addressing.

After seeing your original list I would still humbly suggest that you don't really understand what you are getting into especially since you picked, along with a mismatch of parts, a 335i as your base. You then decided to change it for a 328 for which bolt on performance parts are few & far between. Additionally those that are available are much less effective than those for the 335 because of the basic differences in NA & FI engines.

Many of us are driving modified cars & I am pretty sure not many of us are seeing better fuel economy. Not getting much worse is usually a really good deal. Manufactures are fined big bucks if they miss their MPG targets so factory tuning is always biased toward mileage. What our bolt-on tuning approaches do is shift that biased toward horsepower at the expense of mileage.

Something thing to think about is the factory stock 328 does not meet your 25mpg hurdle based on EPA numbers & I expect misses by quite a bit in real life based on my 330. It would really be interesting to hear how since "there is no refuting this fact, sorry" you are going to bring both the power & MPG up when you don't even know what the basic engines & engine modifications are for these cars.

Nice solid carbon footprint on my driveway "oh the humanity!!"

EDIT: Just a thought - Prior to your comment I could never in a million years even remotely have given a thought as to my car pleasing my boss. If my work product was not enough to make him very happy then I would be way better someplace else.
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  #33  
Old 01-05-2013, 09:26 PM
drewski554 drewski554 is offline
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Definitely would gain more out of having you two HELP me rather than fight with you, so any way either of you could suggest better specific performance parts for my 328i? I have my reasons (price,mpg,turbo,reliability) for not going with a 335i. I would really appreciate it.
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  #34  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:15 PM
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Maybe more info from you would be the place to start. Example 2 door, 4 door, Auto or manual, intended use etc. The big nut is the 25mpg thing. You did not say IIRC city, highway or combined average but regardless as far as I know you are staring behind the curve because the always optimistic EPA numbers have the car at about 18/28. The new 4cyl Turbo is rated a lot higher so it might be something to think about instead of putting a lot of money into an older car if you really need to have a BMW.
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  #35  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:30 PM
drewski554 drewski554 is offline
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Check out this thread: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=668026

That's my final mod list, which answers all those questions. I prefer the 2011 model because I think it looks a lot better, but maybe time will change my thoughts on it.
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  #36  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:40 AM
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Well, drewski, prepare for perhaps the steepest depreciation cliff in all of autodom: Extensive 328i modification.
I just spit water on my screen reading that
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  #37  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:43 AM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Many of us are driving modified cars & I am pretty sure not many of us are seeing better fuel economy. Not getting much worse is usually a really good deal. Manufactures are fined big bucks if they miss their MPG targets so factory tuning is always biased toward mileage. What our bolt-on tuning approaches do is shift that biased toward horsepower at the expense of mileage.
.
I'll write up my report next week after my car gets back from Dinan , I'm actually expecting better MPGs[with my driving style], since when I'm not enjoying the boost it should be quicker to cruising with hopefully less effort.
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  #38  
Old 01-06-2013, 09:25 AM
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Be interesting to see your MPG compared to a stock 335is since Dinan is the lowest performing major tune. You did not say what stage you are running but based on Dinan claims on a Dynojet with stage 2 you will be down about 18whp on a stock 335is & stage 3 will be down about 2whp from a stock 335is that is with an N55 & all the required stage hardware/software. If you have a N54 stage 1 will have you down about 15whp while stage 2 will have you at +2whp over a stock 335is if you buy all the gear.

The thing to remember about Dinan is they advertise using BHP (horsepower at the crank) figures while all the other major tuners JB, Proceed & COBB use WHP (Horsepower at the rear wheels) figures which gives Dinan an over claim of about 15% compared to the others.

For example my car with a light tune, JB4 335IS Map 6 Basic IS map & an FMIC, for about $900 spent produces on a Dynojet 375whp or converted to Dinan style BHP it would be listed as 421BGP. My track mph (115mph) confirms the WHP estimate as being close enough for government work.

Based on the car computer, not the most accurate but I can't be bothered hand logging fill-ups, I have a loss of about 2mpg across the board with just over 20 mph for 100% inside Raleigh city limits. If I drive it aggressively that can drop to 18/19mpg.

Why the last sentence is important & why I mentioned the difference between an 328 NA engine & a 335 FI engine. Typically a tuned turbo is not running much different then a stock turbo unless the turbo is engaged so its possible depending on how aggressive the tune & what associated hardware is on the car to get pretty good mileage with it compared to stock. I don't thing you will bet better then stock but the impact can be eased with a light throttle foot.

The 328 is an NA engine so what ever mods are installed are in use all the time so they will have much more of a negative impact on mileage. Remember BMW has optimized the car for MPG measurements to out of the factory its just about as good as it gets for the engine. Trying to make up a 4 or 5 MPG real world shortfall to his goal is just not in the cards for this engine.

Good thread: I would really like to see a Dynojet run on the Dinan package along with some 1/4 runs to see how the MPH correlates.

EDIT: Forgot to add the BMS "Powerbox" for $280 shows about a 10whp increase on 328/330 engines. Terry does not make any MPG claims for his gear but I found his WHP claims to be very accurate.
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  #39  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:18 AM
1zamboni 1zamboni is offline
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Originally Posted by drewski554 View Post
I'm not an extremist, just someone who's conscientious of our less-than-stellar current environmental condition that also happens to enjoy helping develop alternative fuel sources. Nothing wrong with that. Buying a Prius is just as bad as buying a 328i; the parts are all coming from China, which is consuming significantly more oil each year. Driving a Prius or a Hummer would make no impact to the world in the grand scheme of things; it's going to take a lot more than electric cars to eliminate our carbon footprint.

I never referred to myself as an 'environmentalist'. I just happen to have a job working with clean energy, and my employer would not be impressed if I showed up with a 14MPG M3.
Then order a Tesla and take delivery 9 months afterward. 0 to 60 under 5 seconds and you never have to purchase gas ever.
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  #40  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:47 AM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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Be interesting to see your MPG compared to a stock 335is since Dinan is the lowest performing major tune. You did not say what stage you are running but based on Dinan claims on a Dynojet with stage 2 you will be down about 18whp on a stock 335is & stage 3 will be down about 2whp from a stock 335is that is with an N55 & all the required stage hardware/software. If you have a N54 stage 1 will have you down about 15whp while stage 2 will have you at +2whp over a stock 335is if you buy all the gear.
Stage 1 all the way baby! I'm dipping my baby toe in the pool

1. I'm not sure what I'll be driving in 12-24 months.
2. I'm really curious how the dealer (who has Dinan inside), will react if something goes wrong and if they'll honor CPO [figured I'd be the guinea pig and see what comes of that since all the forums don't have much info on this].
3. I'd rather be only a few K in the hole and them deny it and sound alarms on all the sites about cpo+ in-house bmw dealer mods than spend 10k+ and find that out (and still need to go get a new car).

I just got a local dnyojet location from a buddy, so I'll run it over there when I get some free time and post up the numbers for you to see (remember stage 1 baby numbers )

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  #41  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:55 AM
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What about a 335d? That will get you 30 mpg...but might catch fire
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  #42  
Old 01-06-2013, 10:58 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Originally Posted by drewski554 View Post
Definitely would gain more out of having you two HELP me rather than fight with you, so any way either of you could suggest better specific performance parts for my 328i? I have my reasons (price,mpg,turbo,reliability) for not going with a 335i. I would really appreciate it.

OK, here's help: AH3

No, not a Prius, or even Japanese - your status among your peers won't have that pedigree.

But, you'll have a measure of admiration and attention directed your way. And isn't emotion what it's all about?
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  #43  
Old 01-06-2013, 12:06 PM
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Stage 1 all the way baby! I'm dipping my baby toe in the pool

1. I'm not sure what I'll be driving in 12-24 months.
2. I'm really curious how the dealer (who has Dinan inside), will react if something goes wrong and if they'll honor CPO [figured I'd be the guinea pig and see what comes of that since all the forums don't have much info on this].
3. I'd rather be only a few K in the hole and them deny it and sound alarms on all the sites about cpo+ in-house bmw dealer mods than spend 10k+ and find that out (and still need to go get a new car).

I just got a local dnyojet location from a buddy, so I'll run it over there when I get some free time and post up the numbers for you to see (remember stage 1 baby numbers )
You should be good for 2 years with the Dinan warranty.

Would like to see the numbers too...will put a lot of speculation to rest. Hope they turn out well for you. Be sure if you can to run a base line so you can see what the delta over stock is.

Without a delta its harder to compare dyno test to dyno test which is a pretty hard thing to do anyway.

A quick back to the MPG thing. I listed 20 & change as my typical DD mileage. Today I did some testing of the JB4 G5/ISO beta 15C.hex firmware & the new 12/14/12 interface. Right now this is the most powerful BMS board with X times more memory & CPU power than the original JB4 board running the most current beta software.

I went to Mexico for the test with 20mpg on the clock & after a number of WOT runs through a quarter mile came back at 18.1mpg. By the time I got back to the house it was up to 19.2mpg. Very unscientific but gives an idea how fast mileage can swing when you start to use the power.
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  #44  
Old 01-06-2013, 01:25 PM
unrealii unrealii is offline
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OK, here's help: AH3

No, not a Prius, or even Japanese - your status among your peers won't have that pedigree.

But, you'll have a measure of admiration and attention directed your way. And isn't emotion what it's all about?
He doesn't want a 335, so you suggested a 335 with electric motors attached haha...

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  #45  
Old 01-06-2013, 01:32 PM
SuperTerp SuperTerp is offline
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You should be good for 2 years with the Dinan warranty.

Would like to see the numbers too...will put a lot of speculation to rest. Hope they turn out well for you. Be sure if you can to run a base line so you can see what the delta over stock is.

Without a delta its harder to compare dyno test to dyno test which is a pretty hard thing to do anyway.


A quick back to the MPG thing. I listed 20 & change as my typical DD mileage. Today I did some testing of the JB4 G5/ISO beta 15C.hex firmware & the new 12/14/12 interface. Right now this is the most powerful BMS board with X times more memory & CPU power than the original JB4 board running the most current beta software.

I went to Mexico for the test with 20mpg on the clock & after a number of WOT runs through a quarter mile came back at 18.1mpg. By the time I got back to the house it was up to 19.2mpg. Very unscientific but gives an idea how fast mileage can swing when you start to use the power.
I won't have time . They don't have an appointment till next week and its going in tomorrow
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  #46  
Old 01-06-2013, 02:29 PM
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That's too bad. Just a suggestion check out some vendors & magazine sites for posted Dynojets of stock engines & take an average. Should be close enough to get some idea of how you did. This one is a Dinan N55 & I believe you have an N54 which will perform better with the same mods. Dyno 2 is a pure stock N54 but its base is a bit lower then the base in the Dinan dyno; this is why its the delta that's the key not just the raw numbers.
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Kevin

2014 BMW 435M-Sport
2013 BMW 135is 6MT conv JB4/ISO
2009 Ford Expedition 4X4 EL - 2009 V-Star
2003 Nissan Xterra 4X4 - 1998 Ford Ranger 4X4 Splash
FFR Cobra Mk-IV work in progress

Last edited by bear-avhistory; 01-06-2013 at 02:38 PM.
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  #47  
Old 01-06-2013, 03:39 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Francisco
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,708
Mein Auto: 2009 E93 N54
Quote:
Originally Posted by unrealii View Post
He doesn't want a 335, so you suggested a 335 with electric motors attached haha...

Sneaky, no?

Of course, advantages are gas milage and the exquisite cache of Hybrid Status, a commanding social advantage among self anointed Eco-warriors.

Yup, Warrior. Gore acolytes.....you know who you are, Inconvenient Truth Believers, runnin' on faith and un-confused by fussy, niggly facts from those scientists.
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  #48  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:03 PM
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bear-avhistory bear-avhistory is offline
2014 435M-Sport Coupe
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Mein Auto: 2014 435M-Sport Coupe
I think Gore will get the boot from the ecco team, he sold his radio station for Mid East oil money.
__________________
Kevin

2014 BMW 435M-Sport
2013 BMW 135is 6MT conv JB4/ISO
2009 Ford Expedition 4X4 EL - 2009 V-Star
2003 Nissan Xterra 4X4 - 1998 Ford Ranger 4X4 Splash
FFR Cobra Mk-IV work in progress
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  #49  
Old 01-06-2013, 04:12 PM
CALWATERBOY's Avatar
CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Francisco
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,708
Mein Auto: 2009 E93 N54
Quote:
Originally Posted by bear-avhistory View Post
I think Gore will get the boot from the ecco team, he sold his radio station for Mid East oil money.

Was never about anything else, save power, denied!

Some still don't get the last, or what the 'green' movement [term used advisedly] is about. Obama's made it clear enough; they still can't get it.


.

Last edited by CALWATERBOY; 01-06-2013 at 04:14 PM.
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  #50  
Old 01-06-2013, 07:28 PM
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bear-avhistory bear-avhistory is offline
2014 435M-Sport Coupe
Location: NC - USA
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Mein Auto: 2014 435M-Sport Coupe
There is a whole lot of Kool Aid out there. Wait till the true believers get their paychecks next week & the new 2013 rate schedule from the heath insurer, then they might get the message.
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Kevin

2014 BMW 435M-Sport
2013 BMW 135is 6MT conv JB4/ISO
2009 Ford Expedition 4X4 EL - 2009 V-Star
2003 Nissan Xterra 4X4 - 1998 Ford Ranger 4X4 Splash
FFR Cobra Mk-IV work in progress
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