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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #1  
Old 10-25-2008, 11:12 PM
DJay45 DJay45 is offline
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Coolant leaking from the weep hole 2002 745i

I have this issue on my car and of course this is after my warrant expires. Anyone who's had this same issue knows its a big job and costly if not under warranty. I'm trying to find out if it this is a common issue with this car. How many bimmerfest folks have had this happen? I was thinking if I could gather this kind of information, that maybe BMW NA may do a 50/50 on the cost of the repair with me since this would cost over $6000 at a BMW service center or $3000-$4000 with other mechanics.

So how about it? Anyone else have any experience with this kind of thing? Under warranty or out of warranty. Has anyone ever gotten BMW NA to do a 50/50 with any kind of major repair. I'm not even sure this is my best option. Maybe I should just trade it in and eat crap on the trade-in value. Trade-in for what tho? I love my 7er despite the mechanical issues My car is not the only one "weep"ing
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2008, 02:23 AM
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oh thats just hurts me on the inside

sorry to hear, guy
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  #3  
Old 10-26-2008, 11:52 AM
johndade johndade is offline
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What do they need to do to fix the problem?
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  #4  
Old 10-27-2008, 04:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johndade View Post
What do they need to do to fix the problem?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...51&hg=11&fg=10

That pipe needs to be replaced (#3) and that is a PITA job that pays well. MOST technicians do not remove the cylinder heads to do this job. The front timing cover has to be removed because the pipe comes out through the front and its pretty long. IMO, if you paid me to do a job the way BMW says for me to do it...........You will have new headgaskets and I can see how badly your cylinder heads are as far as having too much carbon is concerned and can recommend pressure testing and cleaning the heads (WHICH BMW DOES NOT COVER) if I thought it was neccessary. But again, thats just me and I always end up NOT making any money on it and 2 days extra put into it. The guys at work eat these things up like Sundays at IHOP. If I did it, you'll be certain that your engine is rebuilt (SO TO SPEAK). Just be cautious and I hope that the person posting will find the answer he seek without resulting in applying a product called JB WELD on the weep hole to seal the deal. I can't help with warranty coverage, lifetime or warranty by definition with BMW is like playing the slot machine. Once you run out of coins to put in, you find yourself digging into your savings so you can PLAY again.
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Last edited by BMW_tech; 10-27-2008 at 04:09 AM.
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  #5  
Old 10-27-2008, 11:20 PM
DJay45 DJay45 is offline
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Cool

If its not obivous from BMW_Tech's post. This requires taking the engine out of the car, hence the really REALLY REALLY high labor to replace a $30 part ( well $30 from realoem ).

Anyhow I resolved the issue by trading the car in today... for a '06 750LI.. I can't help it, I just love they way they drive. I'll post pics soon.
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  #6  
Old 10-27-2008, 11:25 PM
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good job on the trade
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  #7  
Old 10-28-2008, 08:16 PM
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How much for the trade in?
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  #8  
Old 10-29-2008, 02:48 AM
DJay45 DJay45 is offline
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They gave me $14k for my trade in. Edmunds.com put my TMV trade-in value around $16k ( not including the weep hole repair ) so I tell myself I got a decent deal.
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  #9  
Old 10-29-2008, 10:41 AM
joej85 joej85 is offline
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Will this problem eventually happen on all 745's????

I notice that this seems to be a common problem on 745's. I was wondering if this is a problem that all 745's will have eventually or is it a defect that was corrected somewhere in later model production? Is it corrosion related? Will regular coolant changes help?

bmw_tech or anyone else - do you know what the real issue is? Poor design? Bad materials? Are all 745's expected to have this failure???

joe
2004 745li
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  #10  
Old 10-29-2008, 04:18 PM
DJay45 DJay45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joej85 View Post
I notice that this seems to be a common problem on 745's. I was wondering if this is a problem that all 745's will have eventually or is it a defect that was corrected somewhere in later model production? Is it corrosion related? Will regular coolant changes help?

bmw_tech or anyone else - do you know what the real issue is? Poor design? Bad materials? Are all 745's expected to have this failure???

joe
2004 745li
Maybe BMW_Tech can answer better but I know of 3 people ( including myself ) who had this problem. Looking at realoem.com quickly shows that the engine design hasn't changed much so it could happen to newer e65/e66's unless the materials of the o-ring / water pipe were changed.

The lesson I learned from this is do not own one of these cars without a warranty ( unless you can do these types of repairs yourself ) or this will be you
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  #11  
Old 10-29-2008, 07:09 PM
teejaylentz teejaylentz is offline
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Thumbs down

I have also had this problem at around 77K miles (2002). Unfortunately, the vehicle was 18 days out of warranty and I found an independent shop that did the job for around $3K. BMW dealear shops quoted me around $5K to do it. I spent several days going to many different shops and called BMWNA many times over several days (going back and forth with them) to see if they could "good will" the fix. I even visited 3 different BMW dealerships and talked to SAs, but no luck. Based on my experience with the SAs and BMWNA I will probably never buy a BMW again - hah... although I do love the vehicle.

To change the crossover pipe, they didn't remove the engine. Instead, they removed the radiator, front bumper, water pump, and disconnected some A/C lines and power-steering lines to give them some room. They had to remove the timing chain cover to get to it and also the intake. Once all this was removed, the pipe just slides right out of the front (they showed me as it took them a couple days and I visited their shop as they made progress). While they are at it they replaced what I would call the "valley pan" which is basically a pan underneath the intake where the crossover pipe goes through. They used all genuine BMW parts and BMW coolant and power steering fluid. They had to recharge the A/C system as well once they had it all back. So far, it's all good (I'm at 83k miles now).

The root of the problem is a rubber o-ring that is on the front of the crossover pipe. It's just a real pain to get to it. There's also another o-ring at the rear of the pipe.

I'm VERY CURIOUS if this is something I will have to keep doing every 80K miles. I plan to keep this car for the long haul (my other car has 348K miles on it - not that I realistically expect that out of the 7 series!). I do most maintenance myself (oil, brakes, etc.) except when something really outside my abilities comes up (like THIS!).

Last edited by teejaylentz; 10-29-2008 at 08:21 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-30-2008, 05:39 AM
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First off, just because you can save money by not removing the cylinder heads and the upper oil pan that it is a good thing. If you plan to keep it for a long haul, you should have had the heads pulled to see what shape it is in. To look at the valves and perhaps think about changing the seals at the valve stem and getting it pressure tested and cleaned. The extra money worth a few hundred dollars would be enough proof to convince anyone that the engine has been RESEALED. That's enough guarantee regardless of the "lifetime" of the transmission. NOT doing it will affect your decision later on because you do not "know" the condition of the engine to determine longevity if you have to replace the transmission at 150,000 miles. With the heads off and the oil pan removed, a mechanic could simply check for any excessive play at the engine block. Perhaps that "confidence" might cost you an extra grand, I would say it's worth it. I hope that y'all understand what Im trying to tell you. Once cleaned and tested in a manner I stated, when everything is bolted back in it should perform just like when you first got it right? If not, your mechanic can only blame himself and NOT anything else in the engine. Just think, removing the lower timing cover with the heads on and the oil pan......there are gaskets that can tear, smearing some paste at it may not hold for the long haul. And when it leaks, another intrusive operation. Same fasteners get loosened once again. I can almost bet that 1 or 2 threads will show weakness that the fastener could not be tightened to spec. Air tools are mechanics best friend, think about that. That was discipline I had learned working on Ferraris. It's okay for removal, not for installation which requires the proper amount of torque. Any BMW enthusiast knows that the materials used to build the engine block and covers around it isn't what you'd find under the hood of 8 other manufacturers. Bottom line, you're going that route and that deep, consider preventative maintenance/precaution/reconditioning or whatever you wish to call it. Afterall, this will be a keeper right?

Once this pipe was replaced, you may never have to replace it again. I dont know if you noticed the materials used on that pipe. Basically, you should allow the vehicle to always reach operating temperature before shutdown. This way, all that has to expand has expanded and the pressure at the coolant circuit remains and NOT bleed off elsewhere and cause a leak. Perhaps that is why our waterpumps face death due to leaks at the weep hole. It isn't over pressure. The radiator cap has a pressure rating. It's better there, than anywhere else, waterpumps are easy fix with a replacement thermostat even. Right? Replace radiator caps that does not hold pressure. It's location is at the highest, you're surely going to see other leaks develop from "seepage". But not when it retains/holds pressure.
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  #13  
Old 10-30-2008, 06:48 PM
teejaylentz teejaylentz is offline
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Point taken regarding doing the job right. Too late to go back in time though, so we'll see how this plays out.

In terms of materials, the mechanic showed me the pipe once it was removed and it appears to be made out of aluminum. The front o-ring appeared to deformed and starting to crack.

I've never had any problem this involved on any car I've owned, so it was quite a disappointment esp. considering that BMW didn't offer any help just 18 days out of warranty.
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  #14  
Old 10-30-2008, 07:47 PM
johndade johndade is offline
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Tee being that you had an 02 which im sure spent some days in the shop maybe it was in there 18 days so technically you would still have warranty see what im saying cause idk either but your warranty expires excluding days it was in. Something to call your sa and ask him. But bmw being just 18 days out should have good willed it no questions asked.
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  #15  
Old 01-19-2009, 05:50 PM
steve50moore steve50moore is offline
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fyi, In November I had the same issue. $5000 to fix, just 3 months out of warranty. They did it the way talked here...without taking off the heads. Ugh, I was not happy. I have always self insured. If I had been aware of the risk of this problem, I would have bought extended warranty or traded.

I'm an R&D engineer for Procter & Gamble. I saw the little **** rubber o-ring that had eroded. I was extremely pissed at the BMW design engineers to put a rubber o-ring in the middle of an engine without a easy fix. Bad design engineering.

Steve in Cincinnati
2002 745i 107,000 miles
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  #16  
Old 01-19-2009, 06:31 PM
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Had mine fixed under warranty about 1 month ago and about 2 weeks before warranty running out. I had no idea it was such an expensive fix!
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  #17  
Old 01-19-2009, 07:32 PM
teejaylentz teejaylentz is offline
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Steve - I couldn't agree with you more regarding the bad design. There's so many alternative ways to have designed it to avoid this.

Further, the fact that there is a weep hole on the timing case cover seems to indicate that it is expected that a leak could develop at that spot. hah.
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  #18  
Old 01-19-2009, 08:28 PM
mbz1 mbz1 is offline
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I dont understand why there is a tube in the engine in the first place.. i have had mercedes with v8 engines and they dont have any tube never did.. also they dont have any plate in the center to leak..
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbz1 View Post
I dont understand why there is a tube in the engine in the first place.. i have had mercedes with v8 engines and they dont have any tube never did.. also they dont have any plate in the center to leak..

I find most engines have some sort of design flaw so I guess this is BMWs. I smell coolant sometimes so I better get mine checked.
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  #20  
Old 01-20-2009, 03:42 PM
AKsuited AKsuited is offline
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So where does the coolant look from because I have a 2002 745i and recently have experienced a leak right next to the driver side tire. I do not know if it is coolant the substance looks like water but is odorless. Could it be any other type of fluid leaking. I suspect it is cooling because I have had the car for 14k miles bought at 70k now at 84k and never had a leak or a coolant engine light go on, but now the low engine coolant notice is going on and dont know what to do? Let me know if it is the same problem you guys have been talking about above or something minor.
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Old 01-20-2009, 08:43 PM
teejaylentz teejaylentz is offline
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When I had this problem, I spent a lot of time learning about it and scouring the web. See attached some photos I found online back then (can't remember where - so if these are yours please let me know!). In this case, they removed the engine altogether. The first image clearly shows the pipe and valley pan. The second image shows the worn-out cracking gasket. In the last image I put an arrow pointing to the weep hole where you can expect to see the coolant leaking.

The only way to really see the coolant leaking from this hole is to remove the splash shield on the bottom of the car, jack it up, and get under the car (that's how I found out about the problem and what a sad day!). The water pump itself also has a weep hole of its own, so if your water pump is leaking it will probably be coming from that hole. So don't get the two confused...
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  #22  
Old 01-21-2009, 03:02 PM
HUNTON3105 HUNTON3105 is offline
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bmw 745i coolant leak from hole

have got a coolant leak from a hole in front of engine after removing various pipes and wires i thought this looks like big job!
after looking on this site i cannot beleive i is such a massive job those pictures really helped,does any body have any times on doing this work as i will be doing this job for a customer thanks H
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  #23  
Old 01-21-2009, 07:21 PM
steve50moore steve50moore is offline
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fyi, The core cause of this very expensive leak is degradation of the rubber o-ring that seals the cross over pipe.
To minimize the risk of this...it is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED to only use BMW spec coolant/antifreeze. Under no circumstance put in a regular antifreeze...if you must add something and you have no BMW coolant, add water only. BMW has such a tendency to over engineer so many things in their cars, I would not add anything that is not bmw spec (e.g. hydraulic fluids etc)...else you risk unanticipated corrosion of parts.

Regarding the hours to fix this, I know it was a 30+ hour job using the lower cost/higher risk approach discussed earlier in the thread (which was to NOT remove the heads and head gasket). If I remember right, they indicated to me it was a 50+ hour job to take the heads off, etc.

Cheers, Steve
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Old 01-22-2009, 06:47 AM
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Whats the difference with BMW antifreeze and regular anti freeze? I had to add some to mine a coulpe months back and now this thread scared the hell out of me.
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  #25  
Old 02-03-2009, 10:54 AM
DonWonnie DonWonnie is offline
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Hi guys - first time poster - what a great resource this board is!

I own a 2005 745i. I bought it "Certified Series" this summer (May) with 69,000 kms and it currently has 77,000. Since purchase I have probably been back to the BMW dealership on average once a month with a various assortment of complaints - one of which was a low ticking/grumbling noise when the car was running at low rpms. Each time the tech took it for a test drive and was unable to identify the source of the complaint.

The car had an oil change at 72,000 kms. About a month after the oil change the "low coolant" light came on so I scooted over to the dealer and asked them to top it up, as well as put on the snow tires. I have driven the care very, very sparingly this winter (maybe 1,500 kms total, most of which was a trip down south). Within a matter of weeks after getting the coolant topped up the "low coolant" light came on again. We assumed that the tech hadn't really filled up the tank very much on our previous visit so my wife took the car in this time and saw the tech fill up the coolant tank again. After driving about 100 kms the "low coolant" light came on yet again. I hadn't noticed any stain in our garage so now I thought that there was something wrong with the sensor. The next time I turned on the car the ticking noise (which was previously very low) was now very loud and clearly discernable. It was very cold when I turned the car on and I wanted to believe that the car was making the noise becuase of the cold weather but, it's a $100K car with 77,000 kms and my 1996 Infiniti Q45 with 220,000 kms still purs silently when I turn it on in cold weather - so now I was starting to become very angry with the car and the dealership. I put the car back in the garage. The next day I opened the coolant tank and, sure enough, it was very very low so I started to drove the dealership. On my drive to the dealership, the "engine oil below min level" light came on. I had the oil changed at the dealership 5,000 kms ago!!!

My car has been in the shop at the dealership for 10 days and counting. I have had several conversations with the service rep and so far what he has told me is this:

First conversation:

1. there is a coolant leak which was crystalizing around the lower radiator hose. The leak was coming from the lower rad hose, but after reading these posts I'm suspicious;
2. the oil in the car was below minimum and extremely dirty and it appeared to be leaking;

Second conversation:

1. the issues with the engine were coming from the "internal engine" (not sure what that means). It was a mechanical problem and they were going to need to open the engine up and take a closer look;
2. at a minimu they were going to replace the lower rad hose, the engine lifters and valves;

Third conversation:

1. there was a problem with the interal engine compartment (I don't know what this means);
2. the engine was consuming oil which was being caused by some parts malfunctioning (whatever that means);
3. they are going to replace the lifters, valves, cylinder heads, cylinder head cover, bearings, gasket etc.;
4. they have approximately $7,000 worth of new parts that have to be installed in my car.

Fortunately, the car is still completely under warranty so I don't think I'm paying for any of this. I'm still not sure what the problems with the car are, but I plan on spending some time with the tech when I go and pick it up and get him to take me through what the problems where and what they did to fix it. I will post the results of that conversation along with the information on the repair report.
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