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E63 / E64 6 Series (2003 - 2013)
The E63/E64 BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

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  #1  
Old 02-14-2013, 01:21 AM
ahar ahar is offline
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Exclamation Information 4 oil change

Be very careful in your oil changes, instead of 10,000 or more mil to change the oil, sooner is better 5,000 up to 7,000 for your cars life, longer & clean engine to.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:21 AM
FredoinSF FredoinSF is offline
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What brand filter was that? Never seen anything like that.
The oil change interval has been debated to death. I am on one year / 7,500 mile interval for all my cars and I know some thing 15,000 miles or more is fine. Obviously it's not just about the oil.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahar View Post
Be very careful in your oil changes, instead of 10,000 or more mil to change the oil, sooner is better 5,000 up to 7,000 for your cars life, longer & clean engine to.
What brand of filter was that? I'm a firm believer in the 5,000 mile oil change interval for all of my cars.
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Old 02-17-2013, 04:41 AM
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wow, thats a oil filter messed up..... I would never go 15k miles....

I do mine twice a year when the weather changes which is around 6k to 7k miles between changes.
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Old 02-17-2013, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bimmerzone View Post
wow, thats a oil filter messed up..... I would never go 15k miles....

I do mine twice a year when the weather changes which is around 6k to 7k miles between changes.
Crazy how BMW knows that 15k oil changes are bad and encourage it.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:00 PM
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Yeah. I just recently find out about it. I ised to believe there is something amazing about BMW oil n filter. I guess its not then.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:26 PM
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What kind of oil and viscosity do you use? I am wondering if the oil had anything to do with that? 10K should not have caused your filter to fall apart like that.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:21 AM
ahar ahar is offline
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I used Fram oil filter & Mobil 1 0w-40 Synthetic every 10,000 mil. This one is the first time I've seen, so be aware of it. Instead of 10,000, u can go for 7,000, and it keeps your car engine clean. It's highly mechanical, so be careful.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:22 AM
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Looking at the state of that filter reminds why I always go for OEM, the cost is seldom as great as you may think as BMW consumables are competitively priced, so I always use them.
There is no telling what crap has gone back into the engine with a failure like this. I think there is a lot of misunderstanding about the lifetime of oils, I agree that manufacturers are extending the mileage, I suppose to keep down the implied servicing cost, especially as many are now on multi-year service contracts, and this is how to keep costs down and increase the profit.
Many people on this forum want to keep their cars longer term, so oil change intervals becomes an important decision, whereas Joe public who keeps his car 18 months 2 years ish could not give a damn......
It is important to note that oils today's are significantly better than those from even 5 years ago. But you have to do what makes you feel comfortable.......
(Finally as a rub, you guys know I now have a Mercedes E class convertible, I had it in for a contract service 2 weeks ago (main dealer), I have done less than 200 miles and checked the oil and guess what, they had not filled it to the max mark, it was a 1 ltr down, saving them some 20 in putting less oil in...... To late to go back but will definitely watch for the future!!"!!!!! why are these company's becoming complete rogues/ or at worst incompetent??)
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:02 PM
Skarv Skarv is offline
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Please don't interpret my comment to in any way suggest that 15k miles is OK. I'm a 5000 mile guy, and on this car, I allow 7500 mi only because it runs 9 quarts which gives it a lot more oil to ferry heat and junk away from the bearings. But I don't think this filter failure has anything to do with interval length... or even filter quality.

My suspicion is that that oil filter was probably destroyed by user input. The kind of failure you would see from overpressure - which is what you would get if it 'plugged up' with junk or poor quality paper - does not look like that.

The problem with these cars is that the filter element fits on a tube at its base, and it is a pressure fit. There is a similar, but usually looser pressure fit on the filter housing. I can envision two ways this setup can destroy the filter leaving you with bits like you have:

1 - When you take it out, sometimes you have to pry the filter, and I'm sure if done hard enough, you can break up a filter (low probability imo)

2 - When the filter was installed, the tubes weren't aligned properly, and the element got crushed as the housing was tightened down. This makes more sense to me because the filter paper would still be dry at this point, and would be more likely to break rather than bend. Filter paper soaked (even cheap filter paper) in oil is quite flexible.

2.5 - Along the lines of the above, it could even have been installed backwards??? This is just a guess.

The worry with this is that if it is one of the latter options, you ran the car with no functional filter for that entire change. In that condition, even 1000 miles is probably too much.

Anyway, for DIY oil changers, I'd recommend two things from my experiences: One, position the fresh filter firmly in the housing and then screw it into the block. This way, you have to get the orientation right as the housing only holds from the inside of the filter hole. Second, remember there will be a resistance "bump" halfway down as you screw the housing on. This is the 'O' ring pressing into the block. once it is past the shoulder, it gets easy again until the housing seats. If you stop at the first resistance point because you are used to hand tightening oil filters... you will have a leak, and a big one. Songs of experience.

Last edited by Skarv; 02-18-2013 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:18 PM
tampamark tampamark is online now
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Sometimes I think we have gotten a bit overboard on this stuff. I think oil changes were important back when people kept cars until they had 200,000 miles on them. If you plan on keeping your 6 for 20 years and a ton of miles then I suppose have at it, change the oil before recommended.

I have always kept cars for many years and through many miles. I have never been the type to change fluids shorter than prescribed. And I have never had an issue.

My cars through high school and college got fairly regular oil changes, but always on the "waited too long" side of the number. Those I bought with high mileage and ran them to WAY more mileage. Yet they were fine.

I will change my oil only when the prescribed intervals occur, I see no reason not to, despite the filter pictured above. If this is what we judge by, we would need to check it every month. How would you know if your filter melted apart like that any other way?
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:50 PM
Tony Fields Tony Fields is offline
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All of my vehicles get new oil at 3000 miles. Just the way I've
always done them. Sometimes the Barracuda gets new oil at
only 2000 miles.
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Old 02-18-2013, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tampamark View Post
Sometimes I think we have gotten a bit overboard on this stuff. I think oil changes were important back when people kept cars until they had 200,000 miles on them. If you plan on keeping your 6 for 20 years and a ton of miles then I suppose have at it, change the oil before recommended.

I have always kept cars for many years and through many miles. I have never been the type to change fluids shorter than prescribed. And I have never had an issue.

My cars through high school and college got fairly regular oil changes, but always on the "waited too long" side of the number. Those I bought with high mileage and ran them to WAY more mileage. Yet they were fine.

I will change my oil only when the prescribed intervals occur, I see no reason not to, despite the filter pictured above. If this is what we judge by, we would need to check it every month. How would you know if your filter melted apart like that any other way?
+1

I have a 99 Expedition 5.6L that I bought new. It has 260k miles on it, and I never changed the oil before 5k miles. BTW just put on new Rotors for the first time too.

Seems to be a waste of good oil and $$$ to me.
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:11 PM
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:34 PM
Skarv Skarv is offline
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I'll add one more comment to the interval question. I'm not trying to be too controversial as this can be an almost religious discussion.

In general, I believe Tampamark is right on. The recommended interval is fine unless you drive particularly hard, or live in extreme weather. The premise that the Car Makers are incented to have long intervals to prematurely wear out engines is dubious IMO. This would open them up to all sorts of liability. Furthermore, they are equally incented to shorten intervals to give their dealers excuses to get the car in for what is probably their highest margin, quickest service... and sell you other stuff. All in, I think they recommend what they think is right or slightly conservative of what they think.

On this car, I have reduced the interval to 7,500 miles from 15,000 because I have read that the N62 has a pre-disposition to wear out valve seals, and their repair can be very expensive. Oil with higher concentration of suspended particles will cause these to wear quicker so I decided it was worth shortening the interval as a bit of insurance. Generally, I want to wait as long as possible before having to crack this engine open as I can see how expensive it is to farm out, and how difficult it would be for me to do myself.

But here goes the preachy part of this. Far more critical to your engine's life than the interval (as long as it is shorter or equal to the recommended) is that you are absolutely sure to not run low on oil. Low oil levels dramatically reduce the engine's ability to shed heat, and this will bake things faster than you can blink. Now with our cars, that isn't a huge issue because you will get a warning in the dash if the level is low by a quart (leaving you with at least 7 quarts), so unless you ignore that warning, you will always be safe on the level. In most cars, the oil light only comes on when oil pressure is lost... time at which you probably only have one quart in the crankcase and have already overheated parts of the engine. So, for your other cars... don't forget oil level. I can't seem to convince my kids, and my daughter last visited with a dipstick not even touching the oil. Took 2.5 quarts out of 4.5. I believe her car is now on borrowed time.

Last edited by Skarv; 02-19-2013 at 05:12 PM.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:33 AM
tampamark tampamark is online now
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I can't seem to convince my kids, and my daughter last visited with a dipstick not even touching the oil. Took 2.5 quarts out of 4.5. I believe her car is now on borrowed time.
Ouch!
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:51 PM
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I have a hard time believing anything BMW says about fluids after they came up with the "lifetime fluid" recommendation for transmission oil. I strongly believe BMW is a proponent of planned obsolesce.

I used to regularly read the bobistheoilguy.com forums, which is where the oil geeks hang out. An engineer from one of the major oil companies said the main problem with synthetic oils is their inability to lubricate once they get dirty. Dino juice (conventional oil) will continue to lube no matter how contaminated it gets, but once synthetic reaches a certain point of contamination, it basically stops lubricating completely. For this reason I change my oil twice a year even though I put less than 10K miles per year - it's cheap insurance.

I agree 100% about oil levels. If you overfill or let it drop off the stick say goodbye to your motor.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:54 PM
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So, for your other cars... don't forget oil level. I can't seem to convince my kids, and my daughter last visited with a dipstick not even touching the oil. Took 2.5 quarts out of 4.5. I believe her car is now on borrowed time.

I see I am not the only one ! My daughter has a Z4, she goes through tyres like you would never believe, Why she seems to like them flatter on the bottom, safety Pah! that is for other people, cleaning Pah! the dirt is only an inch deep You don't clean them till it's two inches do you? ! Engine oil Pah! only wait till the yellow light tells me ! the how much do you put in and is the car on the level when you Check? Pah! No you just lob a load in and the light goes out !! The list goes on !!!! She say;s all I ever talk about is the state of her car!!! When she had her Z3 written off and needed a new car (hence the Z4) she was never off the phone until she got one realising that if you don't treat them properly you lose them, the eternal promise I will look after this one lasted a Week!!!
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:25 AM
Skarv Skarv is offline
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Originally Posted by Yorgi View Post
I have a hard time believing anything BMW says about fluids after they came up with the "lifetime fluid" recommendation for transmission oil. I strongly believe BMW is a proponent of planned obsolesce.

I used to regularly read the bobistheoilguy.com forums, which is where the oil geeks hang out. An engineer from one of the major oil companies said the main problem with synthetic oils is their inability to lubricate once they get dirty. Dino juice (conventional oil) will continue to lube no matter how contaminated it gets, but once synthetic reaches a certain point of contamination, it basically stops lubricating completely. For this reason I change my oil twice a year even though I put less than 10K miles per year - it's cheap insurance.

I agree 100% about oil levels. If you overfill or let it drop off the stick say goodbye to your motor.
You make a great point about the tranny fluid. I changed mine at 70k and it was black. More importantly, it seemed off on viscosity relative the new charge.

As for their planned obsolescence.. I just dont' know. 15k for oil and then 2 years for brake fluid. One seems long, and the other short... unless you are tracking the car. Wish I could get behind the curtain in the meeting where they decide this stuff.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:19 PM
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Why is in this cars hast to be changed the break fluid ever any way? I have cars my oldest one is 19 years old and never touched the break fluid, just change the pads and rotors. ...
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:43 PM
Skarv Skarv is offline
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Over time, car's brake fluid absorbs water. When this happens, your brakes become mushy. What actually happens is that the water in the fluid boils and this creates a 'pad' of water vapor and well, the brakes just don't work well.

The other failure mode is that if you overheat the fluid (by driving really hard, usually on a track, or riding your brakes down a mountain) you can break it down and make it less effective. Don't know the chemistry in this one.

In real life, I have only had this happen to one vehicle, and it was at 160k miles and 12 years old. The brakes were outright dangerous as the fluid had taken so much water that the car would brake, and then suddenly, it would feel like they would brake no more, and you were headed into the intersection. Fresh fluid, and the brakes are like new.

Back to our sixers... Unless you track the car, my opinion is that two year intervals for brake fluid is a cash cow for the dealer. Besides, if you know how, it is really easy to do. If you have the tools like an auto-bleeder and a hoist, it is outright trivial. So when they charge you $250 it drops practically straight to the bottom line. This is a 1 hour, DIY with maybe $20 of full retail price fluid.

Last edited by Skarv; 02-20-2013 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:53 PM
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It is a cash cow for the dealer!
I do it myself once every 2 years because its SOOOO cheap to DIY, at my cost, I am paying about $10 for brake fluid that takes 1 hour of my time...lol
Heck, I should do it every year just because I can


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarv View Post

Back to our sixers... Unless you track the car, my opinion is that two year intervals for brake fluid is a cash cow for the dealer. Besides, if you know how, it is really easy to do. So when they charge you $250 it drops practically straight to the bottom line.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:55 PM
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Like mentioned above, brake fluid is hygroscopic, which means it absorbs water from the air. This prevents pure water pockets from building up in the lines which can freeze or easily boil.

Over time, the fluid begins to get "wet" and gets to a point where the water content becomes unsafe. The boiling point drops and under heavy braking (at a track, in mountains, etc...) the water boils, turns to steam, and your brake pedal goes to the floor.

BMWs have great brakes and better performance than most sports cars, so they can put a lot of heat into the calipers compared to an econobox. Drive the car hard and the brake fluid can boil if it's several years old. If you drive like my grandma then you have less to worry about.

To give you an idea how serious the issue is, the BMW Car Club of America requires that your brake fluid be less than 4 months old before they let you on the track for a drivers ed day. I've had the pedal go to the floor once with 1 year old fluid, it was a mega pucker moment. Fresh fluid also gives you a much better pedal feel.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:56 PM
Skarv Skarv is offline
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Since I got pinged on this thread once again... I'll add some detail.

Yes our cars have fancy brakes, and yes, they do make more heat... if you drive it hard. The extra surface area however probably helps them never get that hot in normal street driving. "Hard" for brakes is pretty unusual for a street driven car. Not because some here don't drive hard, but because is is very hard to use them that continuously. Track use kills them because every turn means brakes, and hard. The only thing that comes close in most peoples street driving is coming down a mountain riding the brakes. This heats the fluid almost as bad as the track... if not worse if the driver just keeps them half applied for miles of downhill. But stop and go in traffic, or between stop lights creates lots of time for them to cool too, so street doesn't end up being that hard on them.

All this to say, I still think 2 years is unlikely to be needed for a street driven car. Even if you like to come up to stops 'hot'.

Now I get to contradict myself. The other big problem with fluid that has absorbed water is that the water will make the brake cylinders develop pits (rust holes in the bores). This pitting will then abrade the seals of the pistons, which will then make your brakes leak, which will force expensive caliper/master cylinder replacements/repairs.

So... if you lost this bet, it can be expensive. So there is some logic to the 2 years.

Based on my experience, and considering how I drive my car, and the fact that my fluid is still a nice clear yellow after 2 years, and that my pedal feel is excellent,... I just reset the warning to go another 2 years.

Your mileage may vary...
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:11 PM
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I guess I'm a bit of a safety freak.

Yes, the brake fluid will be nice and yellow in the reservoir after 2 years, but try bleeding out an oz or two of the fluid down in the caliper where the fluid has been roasting day after day for 2 years - it will be black. That is why most guys bleed at least a little fluid from each caliper once every few months then do a full flush every few years.

Like you said, it will be very unlikely that the average driver will ever run into boiling brake fluid but the consequences can be deadly if you skimp on fluid changes. It's not like skimping on motor oil which can lead to premature engine wear, it's NO BRAKES when you need them the most. Three panic stops in a row (70 mph down to 10) will have your rotors glowing bright red. $10 for a can of brake fluid is cheap insurance, just find a buddy and crack open a few beers, it takes 30 min max to bleed (about an hour to flush).

Anyone see Duel by Steven Spielberg? You never know when you will need those brakes.
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