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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 12-25-2012, 02:38 PM
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E-Class stalwart considering F10.. eccentric q's/observations inside

Hello all. I have some kind of oddball q's that make sense in my own mind & matter to me, and observations/stream of consciousness to go with that....

I may be transferring my E's Lease over to someone soon, and vowed to not consider a 4-Door popular Sedan again, as I was afraid what happened with my W212 would happen again (as hot as a design is to my eyes, once I see them identical versions EVERYWHERE time and time again, the magic disappears). However, where else are you gonna find such great engineering at such a great price. With the E/5 line you basically get the brands best engineering, best dynamic size ratio, and top of the line design prowess, just in a very customary, somewhat accessible and conventionally natured package, and for a bargain compared to a spin off like a 6/CLS/7, etc.

I am a big fan of my E-Class, but I've been craving something a bit more sporty and dynamic, less convoluted (more timeless) in design, yet more refined/luxurious. My ideal car is a new 911 but it may be too much a financial stretch for me to be comfortable with. What has started to deter me from Mercedes are what I consider horrible and desperate newer designs coming out from the brand, and the W212's interior is just a little too.... "cold".

#1- One question I have is, those of you who bought the F10 because the DESIGN TURNED YOU ON (not because you needed the size for family, etc.), has the commonality started to already deter you of the "magic factor"? Or those especially with M Sports, has the relative "rareness" of that package kept the presence continually fresh?

One thing I HATE about Mercedes is how the AMG Package is so whored out. Even with my mods, it's made it so my E just seems to much like a "fleet car", the exact look and setup from the factory is too commonplace.

One thing I LOVE about the 5-Series/BMW is how they still treat the M Package as something relatively special, and still charge for it. Therefore, whenever I see a white F10 with M Package and especially a black grille and some tinted windows.... it looks kind of almost exotic to me, so European and simply glorious, and just such a beautiful sight. The E's AMG look is so "normal" now, that it lacks that same specialness.

#2 - However, do you guys think that after 2013 with the M Sport becoming cheaper, someone like me who'd get a 5-Series would be kicking myself for falling into the same formula (find it hot and individual at first, then all of a sudden the company makes it too commonplace)? I.e, do you assume the M Sport Package will become much more common? To note again, one of the reasons I want to move on from my E is I wanted something that wasn't so "common". I don't mind having a popular car, but at least some package variation is necessary to keep things fresh. The 5 offering things like an Elegance-package or M Sport (I wish they still had the regular "Sport" as well still, but ah well), and chrome or shadowline window trim really goes a long way, and shows passion from the brand, IMO.I

And finally, #3, the F10 facelift is coming up in like 7-8 months.... maybe not the best time to consider buying one? (I don't want to Lease anymore unless it's too enticing, I'd want to fish out a "too good to be true" deal and simply buy it, if possible).


If you read through all this, I salute you!

P.S: The 5-Series is a car that's been in my blood line, literally. I passed my driving test in an E34, used to joyride my Mom's, my whole family practically had one, the first car I ever drove was one in fact. My Brother had one and before that an E28 that I loved, then my Mom and a friend had an E39 and that car was my favorite car in the world back then, my Mom's ex used to own a BMW dealership, and the first car that made me want to actually literally buy a Luxury Car was an E60 I was borrowing from family for a short period which in turn inspired me to drive to buy my first ever Luxury Car (a Benz), etc. So IF I got a 5er, it'd be like "coming home".
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Last edited by K-A; 12-25-2012 at 02:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-25-2012, 03:08 PM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
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Wow is this the same K-A? BMW is offering free m sport package on the 2013 7 series. Don't know what that tells you...

5 series is a better car than the E... And I have an E. the thing that killed it for me was the terrible throttle response. If you can get passed that then you will love the 5, for me I hated it.
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  #3  
Old 12-25-2012, 03:23 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Originally Posted by Kar Don View Post
Wow is this the same K-A? BMW is offering free m sport package on the 2013 7 series. Don't know what that tells you...

5 series is a better car than the E... And I have an E. the thing that killed it for me was the terrible throttle response. If you can get passed that then you will love the 5, for me I hated it.
Lol, yes indeed.

What got me was after driving the 5 Series and trying to set aside my subjectives, as I remember someone here telling me when we had an E VS 5 Series debate: "The 5 does everything better". It really does and it's hard to deny that. I drove one not too long ago and it even felt more comfortable I think.

My biggest "fear" here is that I get something simply because I seek change and realize that the same things that bugged me the first time bug me again (commonality, getting "too conventional" a car when I don't really need conventionality in my life, etc.).

After seeing how drastic the facelift of the W212 which makes it look like even M-B's own designers can't design something which they will stand behind and give consumers confidence in that they're buying a timelessly-intended vehicle, the love-jones started to wane.

I had no idea of the M Sport being free on 7 Series'. Probably means it's a matter of time before the 5er gets it. Grr, I miss the W211 and E60 days, when the AMG and M Sport Packages were expensive, therefore rare, and those of us who happily paid up for them could enjoy the benefits of what a mass/popular car offers, but have it look noticeably more upmarket when seen in a row of its brethren.

Looking through Classifieds, it jus becomes more and more apparent that as an all arounder and ultimate dynamic choice of vehicle, being "just expensive enough but not too much" to give that that exclusivity-yet-attainable factor, you just can't beat the E/5 segment of cars. No wonder everyone wants 'em.
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  #4  
Old 12-25-2012, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
#1- One question I have is, those of you who bought the F10 because the DESIGN TURNED YOU ON (not because you needed the size for family, etc.), has the commonality started to already deter you of the "magic factor"? Or those especially with M Sports, has the relative "rareness" of that package kept the presence continually fresh?

The F10 does have a great look. The MSport package makes it look better. I haven't seen many F10 MSports. but 550's aren't common either. So I can't say either is common yet.

#2 - However, do you guys think that after 2013 with the M Sport becoming cheaper, someone like me who'd get a 5-Series would be kicking myself for falling into the same formula (find it hot and individual at first, then all of a sudden the company makes it too commonplace)? I.e, do you assume the M Sport Package will become much more common?

And finally, #3, the F10 facelift is coming up in like 7-8 months....

Now what I hear what you want is exclusivity and there's two ways to achieve that: 1) spend a lot of money, or 2) get something quirky - like a Saab 9-5. Number 2 is easy, but then you are stuck driving a Saab. Number 1 is much harder for achieve, but trading off some of the F10's pricier options and replacing with Dinan options is a route to consider. In the two years that I have owned my Dinan5 I only saw one other Dinan and that was an E39 Dinan5. The M5 guys may claim they have the superior car, but drive one of each into a BMW dealer and see which one gets you the rock star treatment. That includes non-Dinan BMW dealers too. Unfortunately, this might not work if you lease your cars. Good Luck,
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  #5  
Old 12-25-2012, 03:49 PM
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Now what I hear what you want is exclusivity and there's two ways to achieve that: 1) spend a lot of money, or 2) get something quirky - like a Saab 9-5. Number 2 is easy, but then you are stuck driving a Saab. Number 1 is much harder for achieve, but trading off some of the F10's pricier options and replacing with Dinan options is a route to consider. In the two years that I have owned my Dinan5 I only saw one other Dinan and that was an E39 Dinan5. The M5 guys may claim they have the superior car, but drive one of each into a BMW dealer and see which one gets you the rock star treatment. That includes non-Dinan BMW dealers too. Unfortunately, this might not work if you lease your cars. Good Luck,
LOL @ Option 2. Very true.

Yes, fact of the matter is, with the budget that I'm trying to force myself to work with, either I can get a Used "Exclusive" car, a'la Maserati GranTurismo (for example) at around the same price I can get a well loaded new F10 (and of course if I get a well loaded slightly Used F10, then I can take the price on that down some).

Fact of the matter is, if you're in "New F10" pricing ballpark, you can squeeze out something pretty exotic, but it'll be out of warranty, and we all know the risks in that.

So yeah, exclusivity and warranty-backed reliability mean the piggy bank has to open up quite wide.

Hence why I'm back here in the MidSize Sedan segment realizing just why I keep looking here in the first place.

Another option is a newer 6-Series, but I always knew the market would consider them way inflatedly priced, and the resale would come down quickly and swiftly.... which I'm already noticing. I still think the F10 is perhaps the nicest BMW out right now, and that even includes the stunning new 6 family (well, they're perhaps my favorite designs out there, period, save for the new 991 and upcoming Cayman), so the F10 gives you that "value pull" though lacks the "exclusivity". I might just keep looking at 6ers as it's the perfect all-arounder I think right now, and keep an eye on where very lightly (single digit mileage) CPO versions prices are going.

The Dinan option sounds enticing, though I'm an aesthetic>performance kind guy if I have to choose between 'em. The 535i would be my most enticing choice as I think it has enough performance for my congested area and I just love that engine/setup on a BMW.
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Last edited by K-A; 12-25-2012 at 03:56 PM.
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  #6  
Old 12-25-2012, 04:11 PM
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There is a great 24 month lease deal on the 2013 535i for the SoCal market. You should jump on it.
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  #7  
Old 12-25-2012, 04:30 PM
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I'm an aesthetic>performance kind guy
Then how about an aero kit from someone like Hamann or Vorsteiner?
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Last edited by dunderhi; 12-25-2012 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 12-25-2012, 04:54 PM
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I came off of a 2011 E350 and into a F10 550. Not fair to compare the engines V6 vs V8. However, the interior design and materials in the F10 blows away the W212. The face lifted W212's interior is a drastic improvement from an aesthetic standpoint but if the materials remain the same (I think it is), then the F10 is still the winner in that category.

I agree with your point regarding MB offering the "AMG Pack" as a free option making 99.8% of all Es look the same as dealers order that option for their inventory since there is no risk in adding that option with fear of no being able to recover that cost if that vehicle doesn't sell. If anything, the AMG Pack is an incentive to sell the car at no additional cost passed onto the consumer. I recall it was rare to find a W211 with the AMG Pack, I did see the Sport Pack more often. However, us enthusiasts like a bit of variety even at an additional cost. Paying for exclusivity is what society has made us adopt as being "individual". Otherwise, mod companies will all go out of business. I think W212 E550 owners are more upset since there is no visual difference between that and an E350 aside from the badge in the rear. At least with the F10 550, the kidney grill and rear exhaust is different so an enthusiast can differ from the different models. But with the M Pack getting cheaper every year, BMW may be going that same route as MB. Not to worry, BMW does offer the "Individual" package and this really separates your car from the rest. It's a pricey $5800 option and for sure you will not find one in the dealer stock.
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  #9  
Old 12-25-2012, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Kar Don View Post
There is a great 24 month lease deal on the 2013 535i for the SoCal market. You should jump on it.
I'll look into it. Is it a standard BMWUSA deal or do I have to look anywhere specific for it? Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunderhi View Post
Then how about an aero kit from someone like Hamann or Vorsteiner?
Definitely a good option. Though one of the things I was saying that's so good about the F10 VS W212 is how if you simply get an M Sport Package, you have a somewhat "exclusive" look on your car (all things considered). I just hope BMW don't cave into the "fleet car look" approach M-B is employing by pretty much shoving its AMG Package down everybody's throats by making the M Sport so common, as it seems they're already showing slight signs of doing.
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  #10  
Old 12-25-2012, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Decboy View Post
I came off of a 2011 E350 and into a F10 550. Not fair to compare the engines V6 vs V8. However, the interior design and materials in the F10 blows away the W212. The face lifted W212's interior is a drastic improvement from an aesthetic standpoint but if the materials remain the same (I think it is), then the F10 is still the winner in that category.

I agree with your point regarding MB offering the "AMG Pack" as a free option making 99.8% of all Es look the same as dealers order that option for their inventory since there is no risk in adding that option with fear of no being able to recover that cost if that vehicle doesn't sell. If anything, the AMG Pack is an incentive to sell the car at no additional cost passed onto the consumer. I recall it was rare to find a W211 with the AMG Pack, I did see the Sport Pack more often. However, us enthusiasts like a bit of variety even at an additional cost. Paying for exclusivity is what society has made us adopt as being "individual". Otherwise, mod companies will all go out of business. I think W212 E550 owners are more upset since there is no visual difference between that and an E350 aside from the badge in the rear. At least with the F10 550, the kidney grill and rear exhaust is different so an enthusiast can differ from the different models. But with the M Pack getting cheaper every year, BMW may be going that same route as MB. Not to worry, BMW does offer the "Individual" package and this really separates your car from the rest. It's a pricey $5800 option and for sure you will not find one in the dealer stock.
Agreed. Yeah, I had to search and search to find a W211 with AMG Sport Package, and when I did, it was damn worth it. My car always felt pretty "special" to me as if I parked next to a row of W211's, mine wouldn't blend in so much. For us enthusiasts, it's a great way to have our cakes and eat it to. After the newness of my W212 wore off, it hasn't felt nearly as special as my W211 did, and that's not even a knock to the car or design, it's a knock to how it just literally looks like every other W212 on the road, right down to the body kit and AMG wheels.

BTW, Kar Don, I went to build a new 7-Series and it shows that it's still charing for the M Sport Package (over $3K)?
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Old 12-25-2012, 05:37 PM
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Definitely a good option. Though one of the things I was saying that's so good about the F10 VS W212 is how if you simply get an M Sport Package, you have a somewhat "exclusive" look on your car (all things considered). I just hope BMW don't cave into the "fleet car look" approach M-B is employing by pretty much shoving its AMG Package down everybody's throats by making the M Sport so common, as it seems they're already showing slight signs of doing.
Considering that now there is no sport package, the MSport will be much more common place, unfortunately.
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
One thing I HATE about Mercedes is how the AMG Package is so whored out. Even with my mods, it's made it so my E just seems to much like a "fleet car", the exact look and setup from the factory is too commonplace.

One thing I LOVE about the 5-Series/BMW is how they still treat the M Package as something relatively special, and still charge for it. Therefore, whenever I see a white F10 with M Package and especially a black grille and some tinted windows.... it looks kind of almost exotic to me, so European and simply glorious, and just such a beautiful sight. The E's AMG look is so "normal" now, that it lacks that same specialness.

#2 - However, do you guys think that after 2013 with the M Sport becoming cheaper, someone like me who'd get a 5-Series would be kicking myself for falling into the same formula (find it hot and individual at first, then all of a sudden the company makes it too commonplace)? I.e, do you assume the M Sport Package will become much more common? To note again, one of the reasons I want to move on from my E is I wanted something that wasn't so "common". I don't mind having a popular car, but at least some package variation is necessary to keep things fresh. The 5 offering things like an Elegance-package or M Sport (I wish they still had the regular "Sport" as well still, but ah well), and chrome or shadowline window trim really goes a long way, and shows passion from the brand, IMO.I
I drive a lot, put 16k on my '12 SRT, and now nearly 6k on my '12 F02.

Your current E Class unfortunately has been very popular, it's a great looking ride, but MBZ did exactly what you said. The vast bulk of E Classes I see are of the AMG design language.

When the F10 first came out it seemed the M Sport was rare, I hate to admit but I see at least a 75/25% split of M Sport/Non M-Sport 5 series now. I drive to LA, the IE, OC and Elsinore areas.

I see less "regular" 5 series than the M Sport models nowadays, my neighbors normal 535 looks rare in comparison.

Again I drive a lot, and we're out here in pretentious SoCal, out in Idaho it might be a different story...
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:25 PM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
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BTW, Kar Don, I went to build a new 7-Series and it shows that it's still charing for the M Sport Package (over $3K)?
For the 24Month lease you better ACT NOW. The deal is ending at the end of the month and is limited to current dealer stock. Check the Ask-a-dealer forum. Someone got a loaded 535i with bang and olufsen for 580 something a month.

Also as for free M-sport, obviously you didn't look at bmwusa.com
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$899*/month for 36 months. $3,500 Holiday Credit, $0 M Sport Package and $750 Loyalty Cash included in payment.
http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...regiontypeid=1
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:27 PM
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I drive a lot, put 16k on my '12 SRT, and now nearly 6k on my '12 F02.

Your current E Class unfortunately has been very popular, it's a great looking ride, but MBZ did exactly what you said. The vast bulk of E Classes I see are of the AMG design language.

When the F10 first came out it seemed the M Sport was rare, I hate to admit but I see at least a 75/25% split of M Sport/Non M-Sport 5 series now. I drive to LA, the IE, OC and Elsinore areas.

I see less "regular" 5 series than the M Sport models nowadays, my neighbors normal 535 looks rare in comparison.

Again I drive a lot, and we're out here in pretentious SoCal, out in Idaho it might be a different story...
Wow, so it's getting that "bad" huh? Thanks for adding your perception.

Grr, that sucks to hear. I just know if I got an F10 with M Sport thinking that I have some individuality, I will have my party rained on if I find that isn't the case once I start truly paying attention. I wish I could say I could "rise above" that but I learned with my experience via my W211 VS W212 AMG Sport models, I just need some variation.... not only for my own car, but just seeing "my model" on the roads, there's nothing "enthusiastic" about every one of them looking like some corporate clone.

Then again, right now I'm used to 99.9% of W212's being AMG Sports, and with my little mods I was able to fend off the "boredom factor" of cloned packages on the roads as much as I could. Even if the F10 was a 50/50 mix of M Sport to "Normals", it would be a major improvement over what I'm currently used to.... especially if I modded the car.

I guess another big question is how smart it is to consider the car when there's a facelift just over a half a year away. Unlike Mercedes, who's facelifts are becoming so drastic they can be polarizing VS how the previous one looked (I prefer the quad headlights of the pre-facelift W212 and hate the Star Grille implementation on the E-Class.... so awkward, forced and wrong IMO), BMW's facelifts on their winning designs are usually very subtle, respectable, both honoring the timeless value of the original design, yet carefully enhancing and freshening it up.
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Wow, so it's getting that "bad" huh? Thanks for adding your perception.

Grr, that sucks to hear. I just know if I got an F10 with M Sport thinking that I have some individuality, I will have my party rained on if I find that isn't the case once I start truly paying attention. I wish I could say I could "rise above" that but I learned with my experience via my W211 VS W212 AMG Sport models, I just need some variation.... not only for my own car, but just seeing "my model" on the roads, there's nothing "enthusiastic" about every one of them looking like some corporate clone.

Then again, right now I'm used to 99.9% of W212's being AMG Sports, and with my little mods I was able to fend off the "boredom factor" of cloned packages on the roads as much as I could. Even if the F10 was a 50/50 mix of M Sport to "Normals", it would be a major improvement over what I'm currently used to.... especially if I modded the car.

I guess another big question is how smart it is to consider the car when there's a facelift just over a half a year away. Unlike Mercedes, who's facelifts are becoming so drastic they can be polarizing VS how the previous one looked (I prefer the quad headlights of the pre-facelift W212 and hate the Star Grille implementation on the E-Class.... so awkward, forced and wrong IMO), BMW's facelifts on their winning designs are usually very subtle, respectable, both honoring the timeless value of the original design, yet carefully enhancing and freshening it up.
This is just my experience, I've got an insane attention to detail bordering on OCD, so someone might not normally notice...

Even though I see a majority of F10 M Sport's, I still think they're sexy. They have the right proportions, I'd still take one versus an A6/E Class.

Good Luck
Chris
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by K-A View Post
Though one of the things I was saying that's so good about the F10 VS W212 is how if you simply get an M Sport Package, you have a somewhat "exclusive" look on your car (all things considered).
Every F10 (every single one) the dealership closest to me purchases for their lot has M Sport.

I much preferred the 2012 F10 packages and options that let you get paddle shifters with standard sport and those sweet classy looking wheels with tons of spokes (the wheels are no longer offered). Not getting M Sport in my area would have given me the more exclusive look.

But I wasn't ready to order until recently so had to settle for M Sport (I wanted the paddle shifters) on the 2013.

-Corey
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  #17  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:40 PM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
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I really enjoyed the look of my normal sport 535 over the M sport. The wheels are still my favorite for the F10... In fact I recall 550 owners putting the 535 wheels on their 2011 cars. I think these are the wheels you are talking about.
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  #18  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:41 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Ahh. Thanks for the info. Looks like I'm 2 years too late to enjoy some "M Sport exclusivity".

They are a sight with M Sport though, no debating that. The W212 is perhaps indeed too popular for its own good in the States (just see them everywhere, you can only take so much before your enthusiasm for your own starts to wane), however funnily enough, the F10 is smashing the E-Class in worldwide sales..... so just imagine how commonplace the F10 must be in certain parts of the world!
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Old 12-25-2012, 07:44 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kar Don View Post
I really enjoyed the look of my normal sport 535 over the M sport. The wheels are still my favorite for the F10... In fact I recall 550 owners putting the 535 wheels on their 2011 cars. I think these are the wheels you are talking about.
Yeah, the F10 pulls off the non-Sport look as well since it's such an elegant design. I don't think it NEEDS M Sport to look good, though for me, I've always been the type who either needs the most aggressive styling package available to balance out an elegant and mature Luxury Car look (the kind of ironic multi-character when pulled off right makes for some of the most dynamically looking cars, IMO), or I just have to look elsewhere. That's just me though. I can still look at a non M Sport F10 and admire its elegance.
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  #20  
Old 12-25-2012, 07:57 PM
Kar Don Kar Don is offline
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Do yourself a favor and Get a 24 month lease on a 535 m-sport before 12/31. Just go to Glendale and see Greg Poland at pacific BMW. Too bad you can't get BMW loyalty and apps... $1250 lost.
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Last edited by Kar Don; 12-25-2012 at 07:58 PM.
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  #21  
Old 12-25-2012, 08:15 PM
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K-A K-A is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kar Don View Post
Do yourself a favor and Get a 24 month lease on a 535 m-sport before 12/31. Just go to Glendale and see Greg Poland at pacific BMW. Too bad you can't get BMW loyalty and apps... $1250 lost.
I might just have to look into that. Found that thread and indeed it sounds pretty unreal.
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  #22  
Old 12-25-2012, 09:31 PM
schnell525 schnell525 is offline
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KA,

I had a few MB products, including an 11 W212 E350, 12 E350 both 4matics. MB's build quality is pretty bad with the cars I had I ultimately got rid of them. I also dumped an ML for it's problems.

The F10 is a great car. I love mine. There is no comparison on material qualities between the cars. No rattles in my 535, nor my 550!
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  #23  
Old 12-25-2012, 10:42 PM
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Decboy Decboy is offline
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As I posted here earlier, M Sport will become more common as BMW is now dropping the price on it. It used to be $6500 for the M Sport Pack which included DDC and ARS. Each subsequent year, they removed ARS and DDC respectively and dropped the price leaving the M Sport Pack as an aesthetic upgrade.

If you want your F10 to be exclusive, "Individual" is the way to go. You can order individual paint, interior color/combination, wood inlay steering wheel, special spoke wheels, "BMW Individual" logo door sills and emblem in the rear. The only downside is that "Individual" is not available with SAT and Paddle Shifters.
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  #24  
Old 12-25-2012, 11:16 PM
Tuffyboy Tuffyboy is offline
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Funny I live in West La and while I see a lot of F10s it's no where near 50/50. I think people get the M-sport for various reasons but nonetheless there are tons of relatively low cost accessories one can bolt on to customize your car. Springs to lower, spacers to make car more aggressive looking, spoiler like the M5 that is subtle but breaks up the rear. Obviously rims etc.

I think the non M is classy with decent wheels and the M or aggressive bolt ons changes the look of the car. The interior smokes most out there but the Benz beats it on sexy exhaust note....but options exists there as well
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  #25  
Old 12-26-2012, 05:33 AM
The X Men The X Men is offline
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K-A, if you want an unique car, forget the F10, Msport or no Msport, they are everywhere. Maybe consider waiting for the LCI F10 or if you can swing it, go for the 6 gran coupe. The GC is one of the most unique BMW around, you can see that thing coming a mile away. I saw a white GC on the road a month ago, it simply just stood out from the rest of the cars on the road.
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