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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 01-11-2013, 07:33 AM
KingpenM3 KingpenM3 is offline
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How to have the best of both worlds? What would it take to beat a 335i w/ a 535i?

I originally planned on getting a 335i because I wanted a car that I could track on the weekends, but ended up ordering a 535i once I got to thinking about squeezing my daughters into the car. But last night I was wondering how much you would have to mod a f10 535i to be able to have a car that is both faster in a straight line and around a scca cone course than a stock 335i. So how many, and which, mods do you think it would take to accomplish this?

eta- I realize that this probably wouldn't be a very desirable setup, as you would be giving up much of the comfort that the 535i provides. Just a purely academic scenario.
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  #2  
Old 01-11-2013, 08:01 AM
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It's almost impossible to do. If it were doable, the cost would be more than just buying an M5.

You must tackle these:
1) 600 lbs
2) Slower steering
3) less aggressive suspension
4) Slower transmission
5) Exterior size
6) lack visibility due to higher F10 dash
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  #3  
Old 01-11-2013, 08:14 AM
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JB4 Tune $600
KW Coilovers $1500-$3000
Down pipe $6-800
Exhaust $1-3K
Brembo Brakes $3500-$4300
Michelin PSS tires $1400

This should get you on par with a stock 335 in a straight line and similar handling. Might be alittle quicker.

Alan
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  #4  
Old 01-12-2013, 05:19 AM
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Yikes, IMO forget that. Just enjoy the superior comfort and refinement/luxury and be happy that for a Sedan this thing still has a lively sport-blooded DNA hiding within it.

Coming from the car I did, I couldn't ask for a more perfect "hybrid" of the two mating aspects.
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  #5  
Old 01-12-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
JB4 Tune $600
KW Coilovers $1500-$3000
Down pipe $6-800
Exhaust $1-3K
Brembo Brakes $3500-$4300
Michelin PSS tires $1400

This should get you on par with a stock 335 in a straight line and similar handling. Might be alittle quicker.

Alan
Or you could steal Alan's car - and just look better than everybody else on the track?

Alan L you get the tune yet?
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  #6  
Old 01-12-2013, 01:32 PM
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You are already on the right path to make F10 faster than F30 (or E9X). Go to the track (HPDE), take instructions. Come home, apply what you learned while driving on normal roads every day - minus the outright speed, of course. Repeat 5-10 times.

If you do it properly, you will be able to beat 100% of 335i drivers who never saw the track in their life.
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  #7  
Old 01-12-2013, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark K View Post
You are already on the right path to make F10 faster than F30 (or E9X). Go to the track (HPDE), take instructions. Come home, apply what you learned while driving on normal roads every day - minus the outright speed, of course. Repeat 5-10 times.

If you do it properly, you will be able to beat 100% of 335i drivers who never saw the track in their life.
Agreed; however, you are still screwed at a red light.
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  #8  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:35 PM
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Agreed; however, you are still screwed at a red light.
BMW juice box will fix that ;-)
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  #9  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:51 PM
Emilner Emilner is offline
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Why not just get a 550ix at that point. Add some Michelin Super Sports and with some training you will spank the average 335 driver...
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  #10  
Old 01-14-2013, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDeep1 View Post
Agreed; however, you are still screwed at a red light.
what is this, fast and the furious? Do 5 series drivers really race from stoplight to stoplight? If that's your thing maybe a mustang or a honda with a fart can is more your thing.
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  #11  
Old 01-14-2013, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 2005x View Post
what is this, fast and the furious? Do 5 series drivers really race from stoplight to stoplight? If that's your thing maybe a mustang or a honda with a fart can is more your thing.
Nice first post! Hello to you too
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Old 01-14-2013, 04:55 PM
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Any F10 5 series is going to be awful on a "cone" course or AutoX - I don't care how much HP it has, it's a 4,000 LB+ 194 inch highway cruiser with a nose longer and wider than the 1968 Chevy Impala I learned how to drive in. I kid.........sort of.

My underpowered E46 330 would pound my 535 around an AutoX track, even though it would lose in a drag race. Even a 550 (NO LSD) isn't going to have much fun around a tight AutoX course.
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  #13  
Old 01-15-2013, 08:29 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2005x View Post
what is this, fast and the furious? Do 5 series drivers really race from stoplight to stoplight? If that's your thing maybe a mustang or a honda with a fart can is more your thing.
Only if I don't run the red light...

But seriously, why does he have to drive his car the way YOU think he should? If he wants to track it, or drag race it, or use in a smash up derby - its his car. He can do what he wishes.

On another note - OP, let me know when you are out so I can stay home



Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
Any F10 5 series is going to be awful on a "cone" course or AutoX - I don't care how much HP it has, it's a 4,000 LB+ 194 inch highway cruiser with a nose longer and wider than the 1968 Chevy Impala I learned how to drive in. I kid.........sort of.

My underpowered E46 330 would pound my 535 around an AutoX track, even though it would lose in a drag race. Even a 550 (NO LSD) isn't going to have much fun around a tight AutoX course.
I doubt you would say that about a 6000lb Bentley Continental GT. Size and weight are relative to how they are put together. -ref Lebron James
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  #14  
Old 01-15-2013, 08:48 AM
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[QUOTE=miamiboyca;7314737]Only if I don't run the red light...

But seriously, why does he have to drive his car the way YOU think he should? If he wants to track it, or drag race it, or use in a smash up derby - its his car. He can do what he wishes.

On another note - OP, let me know when you are out so I can stay home



because the simple fact is you don't by a 5 series bimmer if you are a douche rocket who wants to race at redlights. I am not telling him what to do with his car(nice political correctness "its his car he can do whatever"), I am just stereo typing the person who revs their ****box mustang or intergra at the light when they see a nicer & obviously faster sports car next to them.

If you drive a 5 series I would think you got that out of your system a while ago or hopefully you never had it in you in the first place. I for one did have it in my system as I grew up having to buy my own cars and could only afford 5.0 mustangs. So yes, when I was 19 I would get sheer pleasure out of pulling up next to some dude in a porsche or Bimmer and wanting to race. Face forward 19 years and that desire is completely gone and I actually get way more pleasure seeing someone pulling up and watching them be an idiot.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2005x View Post
what is this, fast and the furious? Do 5 series drivers really race from stoplight to stoplight? If that's your thing maybe a mustang or a honda with a fart can is more your thing.
"Fart can"?? Glad 19 years later you have finally matured. Welcome to the Fest
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  #16  
Old 01-15-2013, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
I doubt you would say that about a 6000lb Bentley Continental GT. Size and weight are relative to how they are put together.
IT'S 5 inches shorter length compared to the F10 !!

2013 Bentley Continental GT
WIDTH 6 ft. 4.5 in. (76.5 in.)
HEIGHT 4 ft. 7.3 in. (55.3 in.)
LENGTH 15 ft. 9.2 in. (189.2 in.)
CURB WEIGHT 5060 lbs
500 HP V8 AWD
$200,000 with necessary options like Lambswool Rugs and Cross Stitching
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  #17  
Old 01-15-2013, 11:01 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
IT'S 5 inches shorter length compared to the F10 !!

2013 Bentley Continental GT
WIDTH 6 ft. 4.5 in. (76.5 in.)
HEIGHT 4 ft. 7.3 in. (55.3 in.)
LENGTH 15 ft. 9.2 in. (189.2 in.)
CURB WEIGHT 5060 lbs
500 HP V8 AWD
$200,000 with necessary options like Lambswool Rugs and Cross Stitching
Good one - as someone is 5'7 5 inches would make a big difference...
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by 2005x View Post
because the simple fact is you don't by a 5 series bimmer if you are a douche rocket who wants to race at redlights. I am not telling him what to do with his car(nice political correctness "its his car he can do whatever"), I am just stereo typing the person who revs their ****box mustang or intergra at the light when they see a nicer & obviously faster sports car next to them.

If you drive a 5 series I would think you got that out of your system a while ago
If you knew me, you would know that I am as far from political correctness as you can get.

Why can't he drive both ways? Why did he have to get that out of his system? If he did it in a Ferrari, would it be ok then? Nothing says you can't drive an F10 and be a total idiot. And again... idiot??? why because he drives the car like he wants to...???

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2005x View Post
I actually get way more pleasure seeing someone pulling up and watching them be an idiot.
And they get enjoyment by acting that way... they probably look at you and think... haha remember when you were young.

I think its a win win.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:04 AM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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Originally Posted by miamiboyca View Post
Or you could steal Alan's car - and just look better than everybody else on the track?

Alan L you get the tune yet?


I have the JB4 Stage 2 on the car for about 1500 miles. So far so good but its not my ideal setup. Its def. faster than stock and makes the car more fun to drive but at the same time you can feel its not as refined as a complete tune would be in non WOT situations.

Alan
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:06 AM
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miamiboyca miamiboyca is offline
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Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post


I have the JB4 Stage 2 on the car for about 1500 miles. So far so good but its not my ideal setup. Its def. faster than stock and makes the car more fun to drive but at the same time you can feel its not as refined as a complete tune would be in non WOT situations.

Alan
Any before and after dynos? Just curious.

Are you as happy with this one, as the one you did on your 3 series?
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:50 AM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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No dynos and from what i've seen others posted its not even worth doing because the results isn't anything to brag about on paper. However, this tune does give the car a significant bump in acceleration and ups the fun factor quite a bit. Somehow on dynos it doesn't reflect whats felt in with the butt dyno but I am ok with it so far. Not as happy as the tunes that were in my N54 335 but it is better than stock for sure.

One option I am planning to look into is the Hartge tune. Same concept as the JB but albeit more refined than the JB coming from such a major company. The problem is the tune isn't cheap $1299 and nobody in the US has it besides the guys over at Turner Motorsports on their project N55 F30 so trying to find real world reviews about it is slim to none.

Alan
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:52 AM
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From what I have seen, it looks like the JB tune moves the curve to a much earlier point. That may account for the great feeing.

Please keep us informed about the Hartge - I am on the sidelines waiting to jump in...
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post

One option I am planning to look into is the Hartge tune. Same concept as the JB but albeit more refined than the JB coming from such a major company. The problem is the tune isn't cheap
More refined because it comes from a major company? You sure about that? BMS has been working on these tunes for years...seems like his would be more refined? Big isn't always better.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:28 PM
Alan L. Alan L. is offline
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More refined because it comes from a major company? You sure about that? BMS has been working on these tunes for years...seems like his would be more refined? Big isn't always better.
Believe me i've had all the major tunes from Burger, Vishnu and Cobb on my last 335 so i know what each one brings to the table. The JB was my LEAST favorite out of the three.

If you read up on what JB does and doesn't do you'll understand why i said what i said. Don't get me wrong for the money its a great bang for the buck but in terms of smoothness and drive ability it is far from perfect.

Unfortunately whatever Terry loads into the JB for the F10 it is different compared to what the E9X N55 are using. From some of the dynos i've seen theres still some work needed to be done to iron out some random things but Terry doesn't seem to give a shiet about us so the chances of any updates coming out is slim to none.

I am running it because the pros out weighs the cons and its the only option for us now. You can't even compare HARTGE to BMS so i wouldn't even go there.

Alan
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Last edited by Alan L.; 01-15-2013 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 01-15-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan L. View Post
Believe me i've had all the major tunes from Burger, Vishnu and Cobb on my last 335 so i know what each one brings to the table. The JB was my LEAST favorite out of the three.

If you read up on what JB does and doesn't do you'll understand why i said what i said. Don't get me wrong for the money its a great bang for the buck but in terms of smoothness and drive ability it is far from perfect.

Unfortunately whatever Terry loads into the JB for the F10 it is different compared to what the E9X N55 are using. From some of the dynos i've seen theres still some work needed to be done to iron out some random things but Terry doesn't seem to give a shiet about us so the chances of any updates coming out is slim to none.

I am running it because the pros out weighs the cons and its the only option for us now. You can't even compare HARTGE to BMS so i wouldn't even go there.

Alan
So how many piggyback tunes for BMW turbos has Hartge actually done? They're automatically better because of their name? I don't buy that. BMS doesn't focus on the F10 because the market is small (most F10 owners don't have a clue about tuning and don't really care), but Hartge will?
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