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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 02-15-2014, 10:51 AM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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Mein Auto: F10 520d M Sport 11/2012
Aircon Failure Condenser damaged

Hi guys

I have a 12/2012 f10 520d with 9000 miles.
Aircon stopped working so I took it in to the dealers & they said the condenser radiator had a hole in it caused by stone damage & it wasn't covered under warranty & cost me 500, like a fool I didn't ask to see the damage!
They say it's very common so surely it's a design fault.
I wonder if a call to BMW UK would have any effect?


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  #2  
Old 02-15-2014, 11:01 AM
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raleedy raleedy is offline
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Not sure about insurance cover in the UK; here in the US, damage from flying stones (as opposed, say, to your driving into a stone wall) would be covered by "comprehensive" insurance, which also covers glass breakage, vandalism and a few other delights. I'm not surprised that BMW does not offer a warranty against road hazards in the UK -- the same is true here.
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  #3  
Old 05-15-2014, 06:31 AM
Farmer_Giles Farmer_Giles is offline
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Mein Auto: 5 series F11
Post Air Con Failures are common on F10/F11

My aircon failed too. Stone damage to the condenser and a bill for 570! Only problem is there are no condensers available in Europe from BMW at the moment so I will have to wait. BMW say it is not covered by warranty as damage caused by "external event"!

The lack of condensers got me suspicious however. I discovered that at least 20 are on back order and, as the car is still being produced, the lack of parts on this scale seemed odd to say the least. After further digging around found that the design of the air intake on the F10/F11 has been drastically changed from earlier models as part of the dynamic efficiency programme. To cut a long story short: the flaps that open to allow air to the condenser open fully and any gravel that comes off the road is funneled in, unchecked, into the condenser at high speed almost inevitably causing damage.

This is clearly a design fault. BMW would not agree at first but I pointed out that they fit air filters because they know any dust getting into the engine will cause damage, had they not they could still claim that such damage was caused by an "external event"! We are talking about gravel from graveled roads in this case, this must be an expected hazard!

After a bit of token resistance BMW agreed to cover the cost of all repairs and confirmed that a revised design of condenser would be fitted when available.
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  #4  
Old 05-15-2014, 05:25 PM
shad99 shad99 is offline
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Had a similar problem a few years ago. Our '97 528i took a rock on the radiator at the conjunction of plastic and aluminum, rendering it unrepairable. The car was out of warranty and the dealer wanted $1200 for a new radiator, and a bunch for labor. Found a good Indie who obtained the OEM radiator for $350 and replaced the thermostat and water pump also, total about $700.
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  #5  
Old 05-16-2014, 02:31 PM
Four Oaks Blue Four Oaks Blue is offline
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Air con failed. Local dealer says stone damage and repair cost 650. Again part on back order, and the dealer has no idea when the part will be available.
I would appreciate technical assistance as this appears to be a design fault and the dealer/ manufacturer appears to be covering this up
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2014, 02:32 AM
Farmer_Giles Farmer_Giles is offline
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Mein Auto: 5 series F11
F10/F11 air conditioning failures

Phone up BMW and don't take no for an answer. Ask your dealer how many condensers he has on back order, I am aware of 32, but everyone is being very coy about the situation. Ask why BMW are unable to supply, is there a supply problem and if so why? Look at the flaps covering the radiator, look again when the flaps are open (your dealer might have to do this for you); now you will understand now why there is a problem, there is nothing between a very flimsy (this is a good thing for efficiency, and not a complaint) condenser and the outside world. ANY gravel or foreign body will go straight into the condenser and destroy it. Some form of mesh screen is clearly required. Don't take no for an answer, this is a design issue and the current design is not fit for purpose and is not of marketable quality.
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  #7  
Old 05-20-2014, 04:44 AM
Four Oaks Blue Four Oaks Blue is offline
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Thank you for the response it is much appreciated. The dealer is still insisting that I pay for the repairs although I am still complaining. They have sent me pictures of the damage and you can quite clearly see the stones lodged against the condenser. I keep asking them how stones can get into the engine compartment, without receiving a acceptable response. They have also admitted that the dealership in Sutton Coldfield has several clients waiting for condensers.

The leasing company have been extremely unhelpful and simply insisting that I pay up and look happy. Do you have any further information I can throw at the dealership?
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  #8  
Old 05-20-2014, 06:13 AM
Farmer_Giles Farmer_Giles is offline
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Sorry, no. I became aware of this being a generic problem with the F10/F11 simply because of the backlog of orders for condensers. Such backlogs for components always deserve investigation as they can often point to design/quality issues, particularly with new models (ask any Toyota owner!). I suspect your problem is more to do with the fact the car is leased and that technically you are not the owner just the keeper.
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  #9  
Old 05-20-2014, 06:27 AM
Farmer_Giles Farmer_Giles is offline
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From another forum:

See http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...where-t224938/

6,000 on back order! If this is true your dealer has not got a leg to stand on!
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  #10  
Old 05-22-2014, 01:30 AM
Lucky Les Lucky Les is offline
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Took my F10 520d in yesterday to fix air con. Was told it needed a new condenser, all under warranty. 7,000 on back order in the UK. The dealer has seen one in the last 4 months.
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  #11  
Old 05-22-2014, 03:46 AM
stevelup stevelup is offline
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We had the same issue yesterday, but were told 7-10 days for the replacement part.
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  #12  
Old 05-25-2014, 01:23 PM
mcrussell mcrussell is offline
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Mein Auto: F10 520d M Sport 11/2012
Definitely a manufacturing issue, I emailed BMW UK Monday & got a call weds to collect a cheque from sytners!!!!



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  #13  
Old 05-26-2014, 12:57 AM
stevelup stevelup is offline
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The dealer didn't even try to charge us, looks like an instruction has come down from high to deal with these under warranty.
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  #14  
Old 05-26-2014, 11:21 AM
Fox Fox is offline
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Out of interest are you all driving M Sport cars, or does this design flaw affect the SE front bumper, too?
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  #15  
Old 05-26-2014, 02:28 PM
Farmer_Giles Farmer_Giles is offline
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I am driving a bog standard F11. I think it is all F10 and F11 variants that suffer from this air-con condenser fault.
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  #16  
Old 05-29-2014, 02:50 AM
Paul_M Paul_M is offline
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Hey all... just signed up to the forum to join in on this after a quick google found this thread.

I've just had a call from the service manager at my local dealer where I bought my F11 M-Sport from 3 weeks ago, saying that I have the same problem and it is stone damage. Strange though, since he agreed it was a warranty problem and didnt mention the stone damage last week when it was inspected! He had told me it is a known problem with the parts on back order at the time though.

Does anyone know the latest on this? Are they just trying to pull a fast one?
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  #17  
Old 05-29-2014, 03:06 AM
stevelup stevelup is offline
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You need to fight that.

The condenser clearly isn't fit for purpose.
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  #18  
Old 05-29-2014, 03:10 AM
Paul_M Paul_M is offline
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Location: Staffordshire, UK
 
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Mein Auto: F11
...just sent a complaint to Watchdog! They like things like this and were successful when there was a problem with E92 wheels cracking (another issue I was stung by with my last car!)....... I seriously wonder why I stick with BMW, I really do!
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  #19  
Old 05-29-2014, 09:30 AM
nickbean nickbean is offline
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Location: Hampshire
 
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Mein Auto: F10 520d
I came look for answers why my air conditioning stopped working after having it recharged 8 weeks ago!

Mcrussell, do you have the email address for BMW? Quite annoyed as my warranty expired in April and I do not intend to pay if this is due to a manufacturing defect!


Nick
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  #20  
Old 06-01-2014, 09:48 AM
gladiator2014 gladiator2014 is offline
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Mein Auto: F11 520D M Sport
Warranty

My F11 520D M Sport aircon compressor failed recently whilst the car was still under warranty. The dealer accepted that the fault was covered by the warranty and gave me a replacement 5 series while they wait for parts to fix mine. Its a well known fault with F10/F11s, so don't be fobbed off. It could be some time before they can source replacements.
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  #21  
Old 06-03-2014, 03:38 AM
SPA0569 SPA0569 is offline
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Mein Auto: 520d
Aircon failure

My Aircon has also failed recently and my local dealer has no idea when they will have a new condensor. Yip you've guessed it, the condensor has a small hole but i am advised this is under warranty phew! Seems this is a common problem and i am surprised some people on this forum are having to pay for the repair. Not good with the recent hot weather which doesnt make the driving experience pleasant particularly on long journeys
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  #22  
Old 06-03-2014, 05:22 AM
lindros2 lindros2 is offline
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Apologies folks - is this only a UK problem?

Very odd if it's only occurring across the Pond (from the USA). Normally Americans are the ones with issues and warranty fights...
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  #23  
Old 06-03-2014, 08:10 AM
Dark-Energy Dark-Energy is offline
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Mein Auto: BMW 520d F11
Drove to Spain early last month and found on arrival that the A/C was not working. Local BMW dealer in Madrid offer us no help apart for asking to leave the car with them for an a priori unspecified amount of time. Furthermore, they had no replacement car to offer me.
Therefore I booked from Madrid, a visit to my local dealer in Cambridge.
Will see what the problem is.
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  #24  
Old 06-03-2014, 12:27 PM
Madmatt32 Madmatt32 is offline
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Mein Auto: 335d xdrive
Aircon Failure

Thanks to all for posting info on this forum re air con failures due to stone damage to condenser. I recently suffered Aircon failure due to stone chip damage on my 335d which is only 4 months old. Dealer initially quoted 650 to replace condensor and confirmed not covered under warranty as damage caused by "external event"

But after complaint to dealer that damage was due to potential design fault and that other owners have had repairs completed on a goodwill basis I have received call today to confirm that repair will be completed without charge.
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  #25  
Old 06-04-2014, 01:14 AM
xd xd is offline
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Personally I've been waiting 2.5 months for a back order condenser - Main importer has no information from BMW Germany on a comitted timeline

Its not just uk but also mainland Europe who are have the shortage of condensers. In USA the majority of F10/11's are petrol not diesel, perhaps the design is different.

Would be nice to track if anyone is successful in gaining a fix from BMW, or whether they have stepped up and given a replacement in the interim.
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