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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #351  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:34 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post


Stats.

BJ
Those numbers include the E90 don't they? Also, I am very surprised how well the ATS is doing!
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  #352  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:37 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by mynycbimmer View Post
Outside of old Americans who grew up driving muscle cars, I don't really see who would ever buy a Caddy.

Case in point, this thread.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=638056
Anyone that cares more about performance than brand logo.
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  #353  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:40 AM
LegendsNeverDie LegendsNeverDie is offline
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Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
I can see someone in a Buick or a Ford who could aspire to be in a Cadillac. Blue collar, born-in-the-USA types, middle America.

But I can't see any BMW owner stepping down to a Cadillac, and for what? Just to save a few dollars and wind up in a baby CTS? Doesn't make sense for us. Wrong customers, wrong forum.

BJ


Born and raised in Europe. Owned mostly Europeans cars. Will likely upgrade to the ATS in the future.
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  #354  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:24 AM
sf_loft sf_loft is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post


Stats.

BJ
We all know that BMW and MB both inflate their numbers to fight for the #1 spot. They do so by shipping dealerships service loaner and demo cars and giving them incentives to register them. Then they are given bigger incentives to get them off the lots and re-register them to customers as new sales. It's a common practice for top manufacturers because there is a psychological effect on people to buy them when a car is popular. Why do you think BMW and MB held back their numbers to see who posts first.

Good quote:

Lexus was "puzzled" by a discrepancy between BMW's reported sales in July and registrations tracked by Polk, a data supplier that collects such information from state agencies, Mark Templin, U.S. head of Toyota's luxury brand said in an Aug. 8 interview in Palo Alto, California.
"This whole volume fight for No. 1, God bless them if that's what they want to fight for," Templin said. "That's a difficult place for a luxury brand to be. If you're fighting for volume -- your stated No. 1 goal is volume -- I think a lot of bad habits creep into the way you do business."

Also, when the majority of your customers are lease buyers, there is a good recurring model of constant sales. That is why BMW is hard to beat on lease deals / incentives. Too attractive and with the 3 series, affordable for many people.
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Last edited by sf_loft; 01-17-2013 at 08:29 AM.
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  #355  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:44 AM
Vector Pilot Vector Pilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
We all know that BMW and MB both inflate their numbers to fight for the #1 spot. They do so by shipping dealerships service loaner and demo cars and giving them incentives to register them. Then they are given bigger incentives to get them off the lots and re-register them to customers as new sales. It's a common practice for top manufacturers because there is a psychological effect on people to buy them when a car is popular. Why do you think BMW and MB held back their numbers to see who posts first.

Good quote:

Lexus was "puzzled" by a discrepancy between BMW's reported sales in July and registrations tracked by Polk, a data supplier that collects such information from state agencies, Mark Templin, U.S. head of Toyota's luxury brand said in an Aug. 8 interview in Palo Alto, California.
"This whole volume fight for No. 1, God bless them if that's what they want to fight for," Templin said. "That's a difficult place for a luxury brand to be. If you're fighting for volume -- your stated No. 1 goal is volume -- I think a lot of bad habits creep into the way you do business."

Also, when the majority of your customers are lease buyers, there is a good recurring model of constant sales. That is why BMW is hard to beat on lease deals / incentives. Too attractive and with the 3 series, affordable for many people.
I totally agree!
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  #356  
Old 01-17-2013, 12:55 PM
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408Racer 408Racer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
"This whole volume fight for No. 1, God bless them if that's what they want to fight for," Templin said. "That's a difficult place for a luxury brand to be. If you're fighting for volume -- your stated No. 1 goal is volume -- I think a lot of bad habits creep into the way you do business."

Also, when the majority of your customers are lease buyers, there is a good recurring model of constant sales. That is why BMW is hard to beat on lease deals / incentives. Too attractive and with the 3 series, affordable for many people.
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  #357  
Old 01-17-2013, 01:00 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sf_loft View Post
We all know that BMW and MB both inflate their numbers to fight for the #1 spot. They do so by shipping dealerships service loaner and demo cars and giving them incentives to register them. Then they are given bigger incentives to get them off the lots and re-register them to customers as new sales. It's a common practice for top manufacturers because there is a psychological effect on people to buy them when a car is popular. Why do you think BMW and MB held back their numbers to see who posts first.

Good quote:

Lexus was "puzzled" by a discrepancy between BMW's reported sales in July and registrations tracked by Polk, a data supplier that collects such information from state agencies, Mark Templin, U.S. head of Toyota's luxury brand said in an Aug. 8 interview in Palo Alto, California.
"This whole volume fight for No. 1, God bless them if that's what they want to fight for," Templin said. "That's a difficult place for a luxury brand to be. If you're fighting for volume -- your stated No. 1 goal is volume -- I think a lot of bad habits creep into the way you do business."

Also, when the majority of your customers are lease buyers, there is a good recurring model of constant sales. That is why BMW is hard to beat on lease deals / incentives. Too attractive and with the 3 series, affordable for many people.
Well Audi has the option of making their A4 or S4 leases more attractive, but they choose not to.
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  #358  
Old 01-17-2013, 01:14 PM
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SilverX3 SilverX3 is offline
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US is a lucky country

$33K for 320i

$53K here

and 1 AUD =1.05 USD

we got ripped off here
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  #359  
Old 01-17-2013, 01:52 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Originally Posted by 408Racer View Post
Why, he's driving an S4 like we have. I don't think even the fanboys here can dispute the fact that the S4 is a much better overall car as compared to an F30.
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  #360  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:26 PM
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Why, he's driving an S4 like we have. I don't think even the fanboys here can dispute the fact that the S4 is a much better overall car as compared to an F30.
My son keeps telling me that too...

But there isn't an Audi dealer close to me, so I automatically rule them out and never consider them.

That's ok. I'll be very happy with the F30.
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  #361  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by beden1 View Post
Why, he's driving an S4 like we have. I don't think even the fanboys here can dispute the fact that the S4 is a much better overall car as compared to an F30.
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  #362  
Old 01-17-2013, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by SilverX3 View Post
US is a lucky country

$33K for 320i

$53K here

and 1 AUD =1.05 USD

we got ripped off here

You are lucky. Here in Canada, we are just *raped*.

2800$ standard PDI & fees for over already inflated MSRP, really?
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  #363  
Old 01-17-2013, 03:25 PM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Originally Posted by SilverX3 View Post
US is a lucky country

$33K for 320i

$53K here

and 1 AUD =1.05 USD

we got ripped off here
But you get free health care and 125 degree summers and casual toplessness at beaches and good beer.
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  #364  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:01 PM
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Personally I think the 2.0 should had been a diesel with MPGs around 40 highway.
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  #365  
Old 01-17-2013, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Slaymaster View Post
Personally I think the 2.0 should had been a diesel with MPGs around 40 highway.
It sounds like people are getting close to that even with the 328i (at least the best reported ones).

I think we'll see the 320d too...thought I read about that somewhere a long time ago. In fact the 320i was a bit of surprise.
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  #366  
Old 01-17-2013, 06:19 PM
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is it really true the only difference between 320i and 328i is 185 hp engine in 320i, and due to this $4k price difference, this sounds to good to be true. Acura has also brought a cheaper model starting 25K, it looks like trend, i am not sure it will be successful or not but most of times it has backfired. Jaguar with Xtype, Cadillac with Catera.

If only difference is in the engine then it is very attractive price for buyers. Until it is confirmed by some review i am skeptical about it. it could bring lot of buyers but then it like everyone driving 3 series. i am not sure i like it.
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Last edited by IAS; 01-17-2013 at 06:21 PM.
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  #367  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:06 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAS View Post
is it really true the only difference between 320i and 328i is 185 hp engine in 320i, and due to this $4k price difference, this sounds to good to be true. Acura has also brought a cheaper model starting 25K, it looks like trend, i am not sure it will be successful or not but most of times it has backfired. Jaguar with Xtype, Cadillac with Catera.

If only difference is in the engine then it is very attractive price for buyers. Until it is confirmed by some review i am skeptical about it. it could bring lot of buyers but then it like everyone driving 3 series. i am not sure i like it.
The engine is not the only difference, there are fewer std features like the lack of power seats and the fold down rear seat. Many of the options available on the 328 are not available on the 320. No DHP or technology package for example. Otherwise it seems the things that make the 3 series a great driver's car are there.
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  #368  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:16 PM
Vector Pilot Vector Pilot is offline
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I've revised my thinking and contrary to my earlier position, the 320i will be a success because it attracts buyers, including my wife, who are shopping for a sports sedan that offers value plus performance. Working with the configurator, and being selective with options and packages, the 320i fills the needs many consumers are looking for in an upscale import.

Here's our latest configuration:

320xi BASE MSRP $34,550
Black Sapphire Metallic$550
Black Dakota Leather $1,450
Silver Matte Trim $0
Lighting Package $900
Sport Package $1,000
Heated front seats $500
Split fold-down-rear seat $475
Navigation system $2,150
BMW Assist with enhanced Bluetooth and USB $0

Destination & Handling: $895

Total MSRP as Built $42,470

Last edited by Vector Pilot; 01-17-2013 at 07:17 PM.
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  #369  
Old 01-17-2013, 07:31 PM
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krash krash is offline
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Originally Posted by Vector Pilot View Post
I've revised my thinking and contrary to my earlier position, the 320i will be a success because it attracts buyers, including my wife, who are shopping for a sports sedan that offers value plus performance. Working with the configurator, and being selective with options and packages, the 320i fills the needs many consumers are looking for in an upscale import.

Here's our latest configuration:

320xi BASE MSRP $34,550
Black Sapphire Metallic$550
Black Dakota Leather $1,450
Silver Matte Trim $0
Lighting Package $900
Sport Package $1,000
Heated front seats $500
Split fold-down-rear seat $475
Navigation system $2,150
BMW Assist with enhanced Bluetooth and USB $0

Destination & Handling: $895

Total MSRP as Built $42,470
Yep, and you shouldn't have any trouble knocking the price down to about $1000 over invoice. Personally, I'm not a bottom feeder. I think it's great that the dealer makes some money, so I don't push any lower than that, but people on this forum go even lower than $1000 over invoice, and that's fine.

But bottom line is that you'll be able to get it for several thousand cheaper than MSRP if you really work at it.
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  #370  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:24 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krash View Post
Yep, and you shouldn't have any trouble knocking the price down to about $1000 over invoice. Personally, I'm not a bottom feeder. I think it's great that the dealer makes some money, so I don't push any lower than that, but people on this forum go even lower than $1000 over invoice, and that's fine.

But bottom line is that you'll be able to get it for several thousand cheaper than MSRP if you really work at it.
Again that depends on whether BMW wants to sell 320i by volume, or 328i by volume. They can easily subsidize one a lot more than the other, depending on market reaction and their need for sales numbers vs. profit.
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  #371  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:28 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector Pilot View Post
I've revised my thinking and contrary to my earlier position, the 320i will be a success because it attracts buyers, including my wife, who are shopping for a sports sedan that offers value plus performance. Working with the configurator, and being selective with options and packages, the 320i fills the needs many consumers are looking for in an upscale import.

Here's our latest configuration:

Total MSRP as Built $42,470
Bingo.

As you've discovered, a non-enthusiast can trade off horsepower for packages. That $4,300 difference in the 320i goes a long way to make up for some of the 328i's option shortfalls. You can add Premium, Lighting, and Nav with $1000 to spare vs. a fairly stripped 328i, or you can forgo it all, kill the leather too, and save almost $5,300.

BJ
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  #372  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:30 PM
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boltjaM3s boltjaM3s is online now
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Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
Again that depends on whether BMW wants to sell 320i by volume, or 328i by volume. They can easily subsidize one a lot more than the other, depending on market reaction and their need for sales numbers vs. profit.
328i sales will drop by 50%. 320i sales will be off the charts. The combination of the two will ring the register to epic proportions for BMW. And all the new blood getting out of their Honda's, out of their Acura's, and into BMW's bodes very well for their future.

Mercedes has the CLA. BMW needed the 320i. The genie is out of the bottle. Brave new world.

BJ
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  #373  
Old 01-17-2013, 08:41 PM
dtc100 dtc100 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boltjaM3s View Post
328i sales will drop by 50%. 320i sales will be off the charts. The combination of the two will ring the register to epic proportions for BMW. And all the new blood getting out of their Honda's, out of their Acura's, and into BMW's bodes very well for their future.

Mercedes has the CLA. BMW needed the 320i. The genie is out of the bottle. Brave new world.

BJ
If the 320i is to answer the CLA, then BMW is obviously ill prepared. Their FWD small sedan has a slow start, in part because with their deeply rooted RWD tradition, they did not see people attracted to a small FWD BMW. Therefore it is a stop gap measure, if you are correct it is to compete with CLA or A3.

Usually you do not introduce a car in a different category to compete with another brand, you build a car in that same category to compete. It would be more logical if you say 320i is here to go head to head with C250.

The genie was never in the bottle, it was just sitting on the other side of the pond all this time.

Last edited by dtc100; 01-17-2013 at 08:50 PM.
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  #374  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:02 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtc100 View Post
If the 320i is to answer the CLA, then BMW is obviously ill prepared. Their FWD small sedan has a slow start, in part because with their deeply rooted RWD tradition, they did not see people attracted to a small FWD BMW. Therefore it is a stop gap measure, if you are correct it is to compete with CLA or A3.

Usually you do not introduce a car in a different category to compete with another brand, you build a car in that same category to compete. It would be more logical if you say 320i is here to go head to head with C250.

The genie was never in the bottle, it was just sitting on the other side of the pond all this time.
The CLA is FWD? Forget it then. Torque steer sucks.
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  #375  
Old 01-17-2013, 10:04 PM
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beden1 beden1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector Pilot View Post
I've revised my thinking and contrary to my earlier position, the 320i will be a success because it attracts buyers, including my wife, who are shopping for a sports sedan that offers value plus performance. Working with the configurator, and being selective with options and packages, the 320i fills the needs many consumers are looking for in an upscale import.

Here's our latest configuration:

320xi BASE MSRP $34,550
Black Sapphire Metallic$550
Black Dakota Leather $1,450
Silver Matte Trim $0
Lighting Package $900
Sport Package $1,000
Heated front seats $500
Split fold-down-rear seat $475
Navigation system $2,150
BMW Assist with enhanced Bluetooth and USB $0

Destination & Handling: $895

Total MSRP as Built $42,470
Can you get heated seats without leather? If so, that could save $1,450.
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Current Stablemates:
'12 Porsche 911 GTS Cabriolet; '11 BMW E93 335is; '08 BMW E60 535xi
Favorite Cars Gone But Not Forgotten:
'09 Corvette ZO6; '04 MB S600; '01 BMW 740iL; '90 Nissan 300ZX 2+2; '89 Jeep Grand Wagoneer; '79 BMW 320i; '79 MB 300D; '67 MG Midget
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